Superman Vs. Homelander

[Bartmanhomer]

Ok, this battle will be the battle of the Supers! Superman from DC Comics versus Homelander from The Boys. I did both an analysis of both Superman and Homelander. First Superman has super-strength, near-invulnerability, super-speed, he can shoot a laser beam from his eyes, he can fly He's weak against, Kryptonite, the red sun, and magic. Homelands the evil counterpart of Superman. He also has super-strength, invulnerability, super-speed, he can also shoot laser beams from his eyes and he can also fly as well. Homelander doesn't have any weakness as far that I can tell. So in the one-on-one battle if Homelander found out that Superman has any weakness he'll use it against him. Otherwise, this might be a tie. So what are your thoughts on this fight?

[Traab]

Superman wins, its beyond contestation. Superman is as far beyond homelander in stats and the level of his abilities as homelander is beyond you.

[Anymage]

Ignoring kryptonite, Homelander has yet to show any tricks like crushing coal into a diamond or handling galactic level threats. Magic isn't a thing in The Boys and Homelander doesn't seem like he's ever gone offworld before, so Superman is just orders of magnitude stronger and his weaknesses aren't relevant.

Kryptonite would be the equalizer. Homelander isn't stupid and Vought has crazy amounts of money, so they could acquire some if it suited their interests and wasn't super rare. Both of those are hard to tell in this hypothetical. How much is Homelander acting in Vought's interests vs. going off the rails, and how rare is kryptonite in the setting? If you port Superman to The Boys universe then Krypton as a planet never existed, and if you port Vought to the DC universe their money will have to compete with other massive businesses like Wayne enterprises. So availability of kryptonite would be the deciding factor, and how available it is depends on what assumptions you're coming in with.

[comicshorse]

Even leaving aside powers for the second Superman has lived fighting challenging opponents most of his life. Homelander has spent his time smiling for the camera's. He has no moves Superman won't have seen before and already beaten

[Bartmanhomer]

Superman wins, it's beyond contestation. Superman is as far beyond homeland in stats and the level of his abilities as homeland is beyond you.

You might be right on that.

Ignoring kryptonite, Homelander has yet to show any tricks like crushing coal into a diamond or handling galactic level threats. Magic isn't a thing in The Boys and Homelander doesn't seem like he's ever gone off-world before, so Superman is just orders of magnitude stronger, and his weaknesses aren't relevant.

Kryptonite would be the equalizer. Homelander isn't stupid and Vought has crazy amounts of money, so they could acquire some if it suited their interests and wasn't super rare. Both of those are hard to tell in this hypothetical. How much is Homelander acting in Vought's interests vs. going off the rails, and how rare is kryptonite in the setting? If you port Superman to The Boys universe then Krypton as a planet never existed, and if you port Vought to the DC universe their money will have to compete with other massive businesses like Wayne enterprises. So the availability of kryptonite would be the deciding factor, and how available it depends on what assumptions you're coming in with.

I think Vought is very resourceful and they'll find Kryptonite one way or another.

Even leaving aside powers for the second Superman has lived fighting challenging opponents most of his life. Homelander has spent his time smiling for the cameras. He has no moves Superman won't have seen before and already beaten

Yeah, Superman has face heavy-hitter villains before.

[The Glyphstone]

Which is why he wins. Even if their powers were equal (they arent), Superman has fought enemies as strong as himself and won, he has experience in actually using his powers in a fight. Homelands has never fought anyone even close to him in power, let alone stronger.

[Bartmanhomer]

Which is why he wins. Even if their powers were equal (they aren't), Superman has fought enemies as strong as himself and won, he has experience in actually using his powers in a fight. Homelands have never fought anyone even close to him in power, let alone stronger.

Homelander is that weak?! Wow! I'm surprised about that. In the show, Homelander kills so many people.

[Peelee]

In DC, Kryptonite is a remnant of a planet. In The Boys, Kryptonite is presumably the solidified state of a noble gas, which pretty much can only be sustained under laboratory conditions. Not anything Homelander could really work with, or use to any effect even if he could work with it.

Also,Homelander does have weaknesses -

Spoiler

Show

his fragile mental state. Superman is mentally stable. Homeland er is significantly mentally unstable.

[Anymage]

Homelander is that weak?! Wow! I'm surprised about that. In the show, Homelander kills so many people.

Homelander kills normal people and low powered supers. Normal people are pretty fragile.

Superman has slugged it out with planetbusters. It's not about Homelander being objectively weak, it's about Superman being that friggin' strong.

Also,Homelander does have weaknesses -

Spoiler

Show

his fragile mental state. Superman is mentally stable. Homeland er is significantly mentally unstable.

If we're talking about politics or long term planning, Homelander has exploitable weaknesses easily. Batman would have a field day with him, for instance.

In a straight up fight or even immediate term tactics? Homelander is pretty canny. If we assume that he has a stash of kryptonite to swing things in his favor, I don't think that Superman would be able to use any psychout tricks to swing things in his favor. If anything, Homelander's desire to prove himself would make him even less susceptible to being talked down.

[Lord Raziere]

Homelander kills normal people and low powered supers. Normal people are pretty fragile.

Superman has slugged it out with planetbusters. It's not about Homelander being objectively weak, it's about Superman being that friggin' strong.

Indeed. Superman fights one of the smartest men to ever exist (and sometimes, the other heroic one to), an advanced AI designed by his own civilization that is only slightly smarter than that man, numerous superman clones and other kryptonians, a being specifically designed to kill him who becomes stronger every time he is defeated, matches wits with a cartoon level reality warper, and fights the literal godly embodiment of despair, oppression and tyranny in his universe.

Homelander is strictly little league compared to that.

Edit: I find VS battles Wiki a good resource for this kind of thing, they rate Homelander as Tier 9-A (pretty low, small building level) while Post-crisis Superman is 4B (solar system level). so....it fits.

[Bartmanhomer]

Homelander kills normal people and low powered supers. Normal people are pretty fragile.

Superman has slugged it out with planet busters. It's not about Homelander being objectively weak, it's about Superman being that friggin' strong.



If we're talking about politics or long term planning, Homelander has exploitable weaknesses easily. Batman would have a field day with him, for instance.

In a straight-up fight or even immediate term tactics? Homelander is pretty canny. If we assume that he has a stash of kryptonite to swing things in his favor, I don't think that Superman would be able to use any psychonaut tricks to swing things in his favor. If anything, Homelander's desire to prove himself would make him even less susceptible to being talked down.

What's the difference?! Superman can KO Homelander with one punch just like Goku can KO Hercule with one punch. So Homelander is considered an ant to Superman.

[TeChameleon]

Honestly, it's probably even more lopsided than Goku vs. Hercule- Hercule could... at least theoretically... have some potential to hurt Goku, no matter how remote. Homelander, unless he learns magic or gets dipped in Kryptonite or something, would have about as much chance of hurting Superman as a bug would of... hurting Superman.

And even if Homelander got his hands on lots and lots of Kryptonite, Superman has successfully beaten a guy that was made of the stuff, so, uhm...

Yeah. No contest.

[Peelee]

What's the difference?! Superman can KO Homelander with one punch just like Goku can KO Hercule with one punch. So Homelander is considered an ant to Superman.

I think you underestimate the power of Hercule, Champion of the World. He did save the universe, after all.

[Bartmanhomer]

I think you underestimate the power of Hercule, Champion of the World. He did save the universe, after all.

Huh? What show have you been watching?

[Peelee]

Huh? What show have you been watching?

Look, all I know is that Hercule, the people's champion, went to go defeat that weird Cell guy and a bunch of random nobodies also were there for some reason.

[Bartmanhomer]

Look, all I know is that Hercule, the people's champion, went to go defeat that weird Cell guy and a bunch of random nobodies also were there for some reason.

That's a lie. Gohan defeated Cell not Hercule and his band of nobodies.

[Tvtyrant]

That's a lie. Gohan defeated Cell not Hercule and his band of nobodies.

Then why did Hercules become so rich?

[Peelee]

That's a lie. Gohan defeated Cell not Hercule and his band of nobodies.

Look man, I don't know what a "Gohan" is. All I know is I saw Hercule, the world's strongest man, who won the World Martial Arts Tournament, go to fight Cell. There were also some random people with a kid there (pretty irresponsible if you ask me). The cameras go out, my TV feed was cut, and then Hercule was still around and Cell wasn't. Pretty cut and dry.

[Bartmanhomer]

Then why did Hercules become so rich?

Because they felt sorry for him that why.

Look man, I don't know what a "Gohan" is. All I know is I saw Hercule, the world's strongest man, who won the World Martial Arts Tournament, go to fight Cell. There were also some random people with a kid there (pretty irresponsible if you ask me). The cameras go out, my TV feed was cut, and then Hercule was still around and Cell wasn't. Pretty cut and dry.

Well, it's pretty clear that you never watched Dragonball Z and I recalled that Gohan beat Cell not Hercule. Hercule is flat-out weak, simple as that.

[Peelee]

Well, it's pretty clear that you never watched Dragonball Z and I recalled that Gohan beat Cell not Hercule. Hercule is flat-out weak, simple as that.

Ya know, now that you've mentioned it, I actually do recall seeing those other people who were near Cell again! Some of them fought in the World Tournaments later on. Of course, they all eventually lost to Hercule in those tournaments. Not sure where you're getting "Hercule is weak" when he's clearly the strongest man in the world, fought that weird Cell guy and clearly won (we didn't have video feed of it, but again, Cell was gone and Hercule was still around, so pretty easy to put 2 and 2 together here), and even those other fighter guys (who, again, were just super irresponsible bringing a kid with them!) later at the World Tournament and won every time.

Oh, and Hercule also directly told us he beat Cell. And those other fighter guys never claimed otherwise.

[Bartmanhomer]

Ya know, now that you've mentioned it, I actually do recall seeing those other people who were near Cell again! Some of them fought in the World Tournaments later on. Of course, they all eventually lost to Hercule in those tournaments. Not sure where you're getting "Hercule is weak" when he's the strongest man in the world, fought that weird Cell guy and won (we didn't have a video feed of it, but again, Cell was gone and Hercule was still around, so pretty easy to put 2 and 2 together here), and even those other fighter guys (who, again, were just super irresponsible bringing a kid with them!) later at the World Tournament and won every time.

Oh, and Hercule also directly told us he beat Cell. And those other fighter guys never claimed otherwise.

Well, I think it's pretty clear that you never watch the show because I watch Dragonball Z a long time ago. I watch the episode when Gohan beat Cell many times. You're being very misinformed for what you're saying and I strongly suggested that you need to research the Gohan Vs. Cell Fight on Youtube and see it for yourself. I know what I'm talking about.

[Peelee]

Well, I think it's pretty clear that you never watch the show because I watch Dragonball Z a long time ago. I watch the episode when Gohan beat Cell many times. You're being very misinformed for what you're saying and I strongly suggested that you need to research the Gohan Vs. Cell Fight on Youtube and see it for yourself. I know what I'm talking about.

I don't think I can make it any more obvious without actually straight-up telling you, so I'm gonna go that route. I'm portraying the viewpoint of literally everyone else in the world (well, the DBZ world). As far as the entire population of the Earth was concerned, Hercule defeated Cell. They believed this because A.) Cell blew up the cameras providing the televised feed, 2.) Cell was destroyed and Hercule was not, and iii.) Hercule told them that's what happened. The Z fighters did not want to gain notoriety so none of them disputed Hercule's version of events, and they all went so far as to deliberately lose to Hercule in all World Tournaments they faced him in later to maintain the illusion that they were not significantly stronger than he.

As far as everyone in the world was concerned, Hercule beat Cell, and nobody knew who Gohan was (barring his Great Saiyaman phase, in which case they still didn't know who he was but were aware of his "super hero" alter ego).

[Bartmanhomer]

I don't think I can make it any more obvious without actually straight-up telling you, so I'm gonna go that route. I'm portraying the viewpoint of literally everyone else in the world (well, the DBZ world). As far as the entire population of the Earth was concerned, Hercule defeated Cell. They believed this because A.) Cell blew up the cameras providing the televised feed, 2.) Cell was destroyed and Hercule was not, and iii.) Hercule told them that's what happened. The Z fighters did not want to gain notoriety so none of them disputed Hercule's version of events, and they all went so far as to deliberately lose to Hercule in all World Tournaments they faced him in later to maintain the illusion that they were not significantly stronger than he.

As far as everyone in the world was concerned, Hercule beat Cell, and nobody knew who Gohan was (barring his Great Saiyaman phase, in which case they still didn't know who he was but were aware of his "super hero" alter ego).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I0WaiRulyoY

What do you going to say now? I was right about everything about Gohan kill Cell. Hercules didn't do swat.

[Peelee]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I0WaiRulyoY

What do you going to say now?

I say this:

I don't think I can make it any more obvious without actually straight-up telling you, so I'm gonna go that route. I'm portraying the viewpoint of literally everyone else in the world (well, the DBZ world). As far as the entire population of the Earth was concerned, Hercule defeated Cell. They believed this because A.) Cell blew up the cameras providing the televised feed, 2.) Cell was destroyed and Hercule was not, and iii.) Hercule told them that's what happened. The Z fighters did not want to gain notoriety so none of them disputed Hercule's version of events, and they all went so far as to deliberately lose to Hercule in all World Tournaments they faced him in later to maintain the illusion that they were not significantly stronger than he.

As far as everyone in the world was concerned, Hercule beat Cell, and nobody knew who Gohan was (barring his Great Saiyaman phase, in which case they still didn't know who he was but were aware of his "super hero" alter ego).

[Dire_Flumph]

Edit: I find VS battles Wiki a good resource for this kind of thing

(Starts looking up random fictional characters)

Well, there's my evening plans down the tubes. At least I have some solid data for a hypothetical Bugs Bunny vs Shoggoth fight now.

[Bartmanhomer]

I say this:

I don't think I can make it any more obvious without actually straight-up telling you, so I'm gonna go that route. I'm portraying the viewpoint of literally everyone else in the world (well, the DBZ world). As far as the entire population of the Earth was concerned, Hercule defeated Cell. They believed this because A.) Cell blew up the cameras providing the televised feed, 2.) The cell was destroyed and Hercule was not, and iii.) Hercule told them that's what happened. The Z fighters did not want to gain notoriety so none of them disputed Hercule's version of events, and they all went so far as to deliberately lose to Hercule in all World Tournaments they faced him in later to maintain the illusion that they were not significantly stronger than he.

As far as everyone in the world was concerned, Hercule beat Cell, and nobody knew who Gohan was (barring his Great Saiyaman phase, in which case they still didn't know who he was but were aware of his "superhero" alter ego).

Well, it's obvious that I'm the only member in this thread who got the evidence and all you got is hearsay with no evidence to back up. Well, it obvious that I won this debate. So I'm not going to continue my frustration debating anymore. I feel like that we derail this thread as we already are.

[JNAProductions]

It's a joke.

Peelee is posting from the perspective of someone in the Dragon Ball Z universe, who do NOT know that Gohan beat Cell and Hercule is (while an immensely strong man, despite his lack of ki) small peanuts.

[Bartmanhomer]

It's a joke.

Peelee is posting from the perspective of someone in the Dragon Ball Z universe, who does NOT know that Gohan beat Cell and Hercule is (while an immensely strong man, despite his lack of ki) small peanuts.

Then he could have mentioned that in blue text saving my frustration for a few posts arguing back and forth. That would save me a big amount of trouble for that.

[Peelee]

Well, it's obvious that I'm the only member in this thread who got the evidence and all you got is hearsay with no evidence to back up.

I'm really trying to think of how to break this down more for you, and I gotta say, it's not getting easy.

The people in the DBZ world are not real. They cannot go to YouTube and watch DragonBall Z episodes. For the people in that world, there is no show called Dragon Ball Z. It doesn't exist. They live in a world where houses spring up from capsules and dinosaurs and animals talk and green aliens exist and one of them kind of ruled the world for a while. Anyway. In this fictional world, there is no DBZ.

So, I was portraying the viewpoint of someone in this fictional world. Not the real world. The fictional DBZ world. You could not show someone in the DBZ world a DBZ video, because that doesn't exist in their world.

In this fictional DBZ world, as far as they know, Hercule defeated Cell. They know this because, in this fictional world, where they cannot watch DBZ clips on youtube, they were toild that Hercule defeated Cell. By Hercule. After Cell was defeated.

Now, for objective truth, yes, Hercule did not defeat Cell. But nobody in this fictional world realizes this. All of them think that Hercule did defeat Cell, because that's what they were told. The only people who could refute this did not. Those people also told everyone that Hercule defeated Cell. So everyone in the fictional world believes that Hercule defeated Cell.

I was portraying the point of view of one of those fictional people. There is zero evidence you can provide that Hercule did not defeat Cell to these fictional people, because you are a real-world person using real-world evidence, and that doesn't work.

Analogy time! It's like if I was pretending to be Darth Vader and you were trying to tell me that Luke was my son by showing me clips of Revenge of the Sith. It doesn't work like that.

You didn't "win the debate" because there was no debate. I made a joke, then I tried a few times to be more and more obvious to clue you in to the fact that I was making a joke, then I explained the joke to you, and now I am explaining the joke even more to you.

[Bartmanhomer]

I'm trying to think of how to break this down more for you, and I gotta say, it's not getting easy.

The people in the DBZ world are not real. They cannot go to YouTube and watch DragonBall Z episodes. For the people in that world, there is no show called Dragon Ball Z. It doesn't exist. They live in a world where houses spring up from capsules and dinosaurs and animals talk and green aliens exist and one of the kinds of ruled the world for a while. Anyway. In this fictional world, there is no DBZ.

So, I was portraying the viewpoint of someone in this fictional world. Not the real world. The fictional DBZ world. You could not show someone in the DBZ world a DBZ video, because that doesn't exist in their world.

In this fictional DBZ world, as far as they know, Hercule defeated Cell. They know this because, in this fictional world, where they cannot watch DBZ clips on youtube, they were told that Hercule defeated Cell. By Hercule. After Cell was defeated.

Now, for objective truth, yes, Hercule did not defeat Cell. But nobody in this fictional world realizes this. All of them think that Hercule did defeat Cell because that's what they were told. The only people who could refute this did not. Those people also told everyone that Hercule defeated Cell. So everyone in the fictional world believes that Hercule defeated Cell.

I was portraying the point of view of one of those fictional people. There is zero evidence you can provide that Hercule did not defeat Cell to these fictional people because you are a real-world person using real-world evidence, and that doesn't work.

Analogy time! It's like if I was pretending to be Darth Vader and you were trying to tell me that Luke was my son by showing me clips of Revenge of the Sith. It doesn't work like that.

You didn't "win the debate" because there was no debate. I made a joke, then I tried a few times to be more and more obvious to clue you into the fact that I was making a joke, then I explained the joke to you, and now I am explaining the joke even more to you.

That was the funniest joke that I ever heard. You should be a stand-up comedian.

Can we please just get back into the topic now?