Returning player

[Hydrusblack]

My friend is starting a campaign, and ill be joining in. I'm looking to play a buff and debuff type class any idea how I would go about that?

[Unoriginal]

My friend is starting a campaign, and ill be joining in. I'm looking to play a buff and debuff type class any idea how I would go about that?

There's many options for that, Bard and Cleric being the two "obligatory mentions".

Aside from buff and debuff, do you have any other want/need/character concept you're thinking about?

[OldTrees1]

Level range might be relevant too. Paladin for example is a decent defensive buffer (not a debuffer or an offensive buffer) but starts off slower than Cleric.

[RogueJK]

There's many options for that, Bard and Cleric being the two "obligatory mentions".

Or both. Lore Bard with 1 level of Cleric. Life Domain and the soon-to-be-released Peace (from Tasha's) are probably the strongest options for Cleric subclass. Maybe Order if you have a Rogue in the party, since you'll be casting party buffs, to help them get off-turn Sneak Attacks.

1 level in Cleric gives you access to many of the best Cleric buffs that are concentrated at 1st level, plus another nifty ability from Cleric that either boosts your healing (Life), gives you a concentration-free Bless-like buff (Peace), or grants additional attacks by party members when you cast a buff on them (Order). Then you also get all the various Bard buff/debuff spells, plus Bardic Inspiration and Cutting Words, extra Magical Secrets to poach outside class buff/debuff spells, and then the fallback cantrip of Vicious Mockery for both debuff and a little damage when you don't have anything better to be doing with your Action.

For stats, go with High CHA, Moderate CON, and 13+ WIS for Cleric multiclassing. You'll want a 14ish DEX to complement your Medium Armor, unless you go Life or Order and want to wear Heavy Armor, and then you'll dump DEX for 15+ STR (or go Dwarf and ignore both STR and DEX while still wearing heavy armor).

Something like a Half-Elf, with Point Buy stats of:
STR 8
DEX 13+1
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 12+1
CHA 15+2

[Hydrusblack]

My character is gonna have a god complex, so he is not gonna do much dmg cause he believes it is beneath him, and if my fellow members ask for favors ill give buff or debuffs

[RogueJK]

In that case, Lore Bard dipping Order Cleric could be fun.

"Fear not, Sneakthief... I bestow a boon on you."

*casts buff on Rogue*

*gestures at enemy*

"That orc displeases me... I command you to smite it."

*Rogue gets bonus Sneak Attack*


Maybe take the Noble background to get the Retainers feature, which grants you 3 attendants/worshippers.


I played a somewhat similar Life Cleric 1/Lore Bard X, who avoided doing direct damage most of the time, focusing on buffing/debuffing/healing instead. He didn't have a God complex... He was just lazy, preferring to stay out of the way and do his work as a cheerleader/heckler from the sidelines.

It worked well for that campaign. Just understand that a small party (2-4) likely needs you to assist with additional damage output, so a straight support/buff/debuff caster like that isn't as ideal, compared to a larger party (5+) where everyone else is already set up to do damage and don't need your extra damage contribution.

[RogueJK]

Paladin for example is a decent defensive buffer (not a debuffer or an offensive buffer)

Some Paladins have a few debuff tricks. Like Ancients and their various ways to inflict the Restrained condition. Or Conquest with its sources of the Frightened condition, especially at higher levels (9+) once their Aura comes online and they can cast the Fear spell.

Either of those Paladin Oaths are a good way to shore up a party that needs a primary frontliner with some solid damage output, while still getting a little taste of the buff/debuff side of things. But not really what the OP's looking for, from what it sounds like.

[Keravath]

You might want to consider cleric. They have some good buffs and debuffs but also good ways to inflict damage without raising a finger. Spirit guardians and dodging while you taunt opponents and stand among them looking at them disdainfully (make sure you have resilient con or warcaster or both) does wonders for the cleric who doesn't want to fight. There is also the spiritual weapon you can call upon when you can't be bothered with your own weapon. Healing the peons never goes amiss and bless or bane are decent 1st level buff/debuff spells.

I also second the idea of lore bard. They have cutting words to debuff opponents. A good selection of spells and magical secrets at 6th level. I would also agree with starting with one level of cleric though for the armor and shield plus the first level cleric spells. 14 wisdom and 16 charisma, 14 dex and con would be ideal for wearing medium armor while getting the most out of cleric spells prepared.

[Hydrusblack]

I'm thinking a forge cleric are they any good?

[Throne12]

A divine soul sorcerer is a great de/buffer. They get both sorcerer and cleric spells to pick from. Then what really makes this build is meta magic.

[RogueJK]

I'm thinking a forge cleric are they any good?

They're one of the stronger Cleric subclasses in general, and Artisan's Blessing has some useful out of combat utility for a creative player.

But for your specific character... They're about as good as other Cleric at buff/debuff. Which is to say, Clerics have some good buff/debuff spell options, but are still not quite as good as a Bard or a Bard with Cleric dip (or even potentially a purpose-built Divination Wizard or Divine Soul Sorcerer) at that specific buff/debuff role. And specifically Forge Clerics are geared a bit more towards being on the front lines with a melee weapon. If you don't plan to be doing damage like that, then some of Forge's benefits like Martial weapon proficiency, Smite spells, and Divine Strike won't do you any good. There are other Cleric subclasses that would jive better with a no-damage strictly buff/debuff/support playstyle, such as Life, Grave, Order, Twilight, or Peace.

[kazaryu]

I'm thinking a forge cleric are they any good?

clerics as a chasis are good for what you want. so any cleric is good, if you like forge cleric, go for it.

that being said: yes. the forge domain is decent enough. free magic armor/weapont that you can give to allies *is* indeed a buff. and a few of the spells they get as domain spells are also buffs (and only one of them is already native to cleric)

but most of the rest of the stuff they get are self buffs or damage steroids. (or its their channel divinity...which is entirely ooc utiltiy). so there are subclasses that will add more to your core concept. that being said, there's nothing wrong with haveing a few extra ticks up your sleeve. and base cleric, by itself, is a buff/debuff class primarily. so any subclass can fill your role, pick the one that seems the most fun.

(oh, and if you meant to ask if forge cleric was 'good' overall...yes. yes it is.)