Why didn’t Durkula vampirize Zz’dtri?

[NobleCuriosity]

I was just rereading Blood Runs in the Family, and when I got to strip 908, I found myself wondering why Durkula didn’t vampirize Zz’dtri. As a fighter/rogue/sorcerer, Nale isn’t likely to have a way to immediately get Z back in the fight, and vampire-Z would have been a tremendous asset to Hel’s plans. Durkon/Durkula never saw that Z could cast Teleport (which would have single-handedly solved Durkula’s issue of making it to the Godsmoot in time), but even so, V was missing at the time, so you’d think Durkula would want to procure another arcane caster. Z was definitely within Durkula’s HD limit, since he had no other spawns.

Why do you think he went for the neck-snap instead? Is there some mechanical issue I don’t know about? Obviously storywise Durkula couldn’t go for it because then he wouldn’t need the OoTS and we’d miss the plot of book 6, but what do you think was the in-character reason for doing so?

[The Pilgrim]

He had already decided to infiltrate the Order and use them to procure transportation. Making Roy accept one Vampire was already risky enough. Accepting two, the other being a recurrent nemesis of the Order? Little chance of success.

Of course, if Durkula had known Z can cast Teleport... but alas, he didn't realize that.

[JeenLeen]

I could see it as a "I need the Order of the Stick to believe I'm Durkon, and Durkon wouldn't make thralls"--but you're right that the only reason he needs them is for transportation.

Do we know that Durkon knows Z had Teleport? I know it was talked about in some comics, but I don't recall (or have the time to check) if Durkon would necessarily know it (e.g., was told it or saw it on-screen.) Also, we know that Durkon was fighting 'Greg' more in the beginning, so it might have gotten a flood of memories about Nale, Z, and others (in order to know how to respond to their offer), but not gotten the details of what spells Z had. (Yes, Durkon would eventually have to give it up, and we see later how quickly those fights last--but it's still possible some intel did not get transferred, either because Durkon withheld those key elements or 'Greg' didn't think to ask in particular and instead got general info.)

[137beth]

Also, I don't remember if we know whether Z is a northerner for the purpose of determining which death God creates his vampire (are the crow homelands part of the northern continent?). If not, then Vampire Z could be created by a different God less sympathetic to Hel's plans, which would mean Happy would have to be really careful to to let him get unthralled.

[hroþila]

Either he needed to infiltrate the Order and he didn't know Z could teleport, or he knew but even back then he already wanted to fight Roy so he preferred to infiltrate the Order rather than teleport straight to the Godsmoot. Or maybe it just didn't occur to him because Z was his first kill and he was overeager.

Also, I don't remember if we know whether Z is a northerner for the purpose of determining which death God creates his vampire (are the crow homelands part of the northern continent?). If not, then Vampire Z could be created by a different God less sympathetic to Hel's plans, which would mean Happy would have to be really careful to to let him get unthralled.

If Durkon could keep him as his thrall, this wouldn't matter.

[Steveio]

Because then there wouldn't be a story, and we would've immediately known the vampire wasn't actually Durkon. Letting something appear organic when it's really a cruel unnatural charade is kind of his whole thing.

In-universe? Maybe he didn't remember Zz'dtri could teleport in time. Or he thought over the contingency plans so much that he overlooked the "simple" solution. Maybe he wanted to have some fun before the world explodes because he's the antithesis of his incredibly "boring" host.

[InvisibleBison]

A vampire can only control a number of spawn equal to twice his hit dice, and Durkon was 15th level at that time, so clearly Zz'dtri was actually at least 31 creatures.

[denthor]

Z was a drow. Who knows if lloth would still claim her. Do not need competition for anything.

[ebarde]

Vampire Durkon deep down wasn't as pragmatic as he wanted to believe he was, so maybe he genuinely wanted to mess with the Order. He might have been genuinely hurt over Durkon's passive role in the party up till them, for more that they are separate entities the pain their hosts faced in life do affect vampires deeply, at least before they mature into their own person after a bit. It's also important to note that up till then Vampire Durkon was an obedient thrall, he really didn't have a lot of life experience to draw from and probably couldn't make the most tactical decision ever in the short time he had to decide.

[BaronOfHell]

When this question previously came up I thought the consensus was that Hel simply hadn't told Durkon about/created her plan yet.

[Emanick]

When this question previously came up I thought the consensus was that Hel simply hadn't told Durkon about/created her plan yet.

Yeah, this. When Durkon* was created (note that he was actually created the moment Malack used his staff, even though he was in thrall to Malack for the next hour or so), the Gate hadn’t even been destroyed yet, so at that point there was no Godsmoot to teleport to. Thus, Hel couldn’t have told him that it was urgent to acquire a means of teleportation. Instead she probably gave him instructions along the lines of “infiltrate the Order and wait for further instructions,” since they’re the ones on the Gate quest.

At sunset, he would have been able to contact Hel and receive more specific instructions regarding the Godsmoot, which had probably been called by that point. Once he knew that all he needed out of the Order was rapid transportation, he was probably rueing his decision to kill rather than vamp Z, but of course the damage was already done by that point.

One could, of course, assume that Hel *did* tell Durkon* of the need to procure rapid transportation during the moment he was being created, but that requires her to foresee how events would play out at the point when nobody had even found Girard’s Gate, and it requires us to ask why Durkon* made the stupid mistake of killing Z despite having access to the knowledge that Z could almost certainly teleport. I think that there is no need to make this assumption, because it complicates things unnecessarily and is of questionable plausibility.

[Yendor]

Or, Zz'dtri would have needed to refresh his spell slots, something for which there certainly wasn't time, especially with Tarquin's army on the way. And Durkon already knew the Mechane would be on the way.

[Morty]

Durkula didn't know where the Godsmoot actually was and a thrall made of Zz'dtri wouldn't have known either. So he couldn't have teleported there, because the spell requires a clear idea of the destination. Durkula was lucky to find out where it took place and drag Roy there as it was.

[Yendor]

Durkula didn't know where the Godsmoot actually was and a thrall made of Zz'dtri wouldn't have known either. So he couldn't have teleported there, because the spell requires a clear idea of the destination. Durkula was lucky to find out where it took place and drag Roy there as it was.

Yes, he did. But Durkon couldn't have known, which is why he had to arrange for Roy to find it out.

[Chronos]

I think it's a lot simpler than folks are making out. A vampire's personality is based on the personality of its host: That's why Malak was looking for "the right person" to make into his "child". And Durkon, and therefore also Not-Durkon, just plain doesn't like Zz'drti very much. He didn't want Zz'dtri as a "child"; he just wanted to be rid of him.

[Kurald Galain]

Z could cast Teleport (which would have single-handedly solved Durkula’s issue of making it to the Godsmoot in time)

Bear in mind that Teleport has a range limit, and requires the caster to be well-familiar with the destination.

And even Durkon wasn't familiar with the Godsmoot location, or else he could have used V's teleport orb. Of course, the whole location was built last-minute, so pretty much nobody would have been familiar with it.

[Riftwolf]

From a mechanical standpoint, even with Malacks staff, vampirisation takes several rounds (eyeballing it at 5-7, including swift-vamp and Prot. Vs Daylight castings), and the Order were in the middle of combat at the time. Add to this that Durkon* thought Z was a **** and you can see why he made
*Puts on glasses*
A snap decision.

[NobleCuriosity]

Yeah, this. When Durkon* was created (note that he was actually created the moment Malack used his staff, even though he was in thrall to Malack for the next hour or so), the Gate hadn’t even been destroyed yet, so at that point there was no Godsmoot to teleport to. Thus, Hel couldn’t have told him that it was urgent to acquire a means of teleportation. Instead she probably gave him instructions along the lines of “infiltrate the Order and wait for further instructions,” since they’re the ones on the Gate quest.

At sunset, he would have been able to contact Hel and receive more specific instructions regarding the Godsmoot, which had probably been called by that point. Once he knew that all he needed out of the Order was rapid transportation, he was probably rueing his decision to kill rather than vamp Z, but of course the damage was already done by that point.

One could, of course, assume that Hel *did* tell Durkon* of the need to procure rapid transportation during the moment he was being created, but that requires her to foresee how events would play out at the point when nobody had even found Girard’s Gate, and it requires us to ask why Durkon* made the stupid mistake of killing Z despite having access to the knowledge that Z could almost certainly teleport. I think that there is no need to make this assumption, because it complicates things unnecessarily and is of questionable plausibility.

This explanation makes good sense to me, thanks.

Not sure I buy the teleport-requires-intimate-knowledge thing being a problem; Durkula had the exact address, and Hel presumably could have described it with plenty of detail (or shown an illusory photo), and just earlier in the book Z teleported to a random patch of sand outside the pyramid that he had never set foot on before (since they flew in). Still, the first explanation works pretty well.

[Kurald Galain]

Hel presumably could have described it with plenty of detail (or shown an illusory photo),

Even if you presume Hel can do that (although illusory photos are arcane magic, not divine), that would give the Teleport spell a 24% chance of failure. It's literally written in the Teleport spell

[KorvinStarmast]

Add to this that Durkon* thought Z was a **** and you can see why he made
*Puts on glasses*
A snap decision.

Precisely. Sometimes, you just gotta say "what the snap!"

(One of my favorite strips in the whole series)

[Riftwolf]

Z was a drow. Who knows if lloth would still claim her. Do not need competition for anything.

Z was female?

[ebarde]

Z was a dude

[KorvinStarmast]

Z was a dude

Given that drow are a kind of elf, and that Z is a drow, it is also possible that Z's gender is (a) undetermined and (b) irrelevant to the story. (Unless Rich has somewhere in commentaries clarified that Z is male or female - I don't remember reading any of that, but I also don't find the commentaries to be very useful to read more than once ... they are fine to identify broad themes and to alert us to bonus material, though)
That said, with Z being an obvious parody of a particular male drow written in some FR novels, I'll drop five dollars in Vegas on "male" next time they open a line on that.

[The Pilgrim]

Given that drow are a kind of elf, and that Z is a drow, it is also possible that Z's gender is (a) undetermined and (b) irrelevant to the story. (Unless Rich has somewhere in commentaries clarified that Z is male or female - I don't remember reading any of that, but I also don't find the commentaries to be very useful to read more than once ... they are fine to identify broad themes and to alert us to bonus material, though)

Male, according to:

Nale
Sabine
Vaarsuvius

[KorvinStarmast]

Male, according to:

Nale
Sabine
Vaarsuvius

Consistent.

[dps]

I figure he just did it to screw with Nale.

[Riftwolf]

Given that drow are a kind of elf, and that Z is a drow, it is also possible that Z's gender is (a) undetermined and (b) irrelevant to the story. (Unless Rich has somewhere in commentaries clarified that Z is male or female - I don't remember reading any of that, but I also don't find the commentaries to be very useful to read more than once ... they are fine to identify broad themes and to alert us to bonus material, though)
That said, with Z being an obvious parody of a particular male drow written in some FR novels, I'll drop five dollars in Vegas on "male" next time they open a line on that.

I don't think *all* elves, including dark elves, are genderfluid in Oots though. However I have trouble talking about gender politics without accidentally offending, so instead I'll drop the subject and say thanks for acknowledging my 'snap decision' joke.

[ebarde]

It was also a joke that Pompeii had a defined gender cause he was the polar opposite of V, so I guess to that extent the same applies to Z

[Dr.Zero]

Didn't Tarquin at some point told about his sexual adventures with a female dark elf?

Maybe it's just that some elves, and between them V, are genderfluid.

(That other elf, Velina I think, I remember I clearly categorized her as a female, but can't remember if that was because of something in comic, or just because her name sounded female)

(BTW, just checked: the name was Veldrina)

[ebarde]

If it follows Forgotten Realms rules, Drows have extremely strict gender roles while surface elves are pretty fluid gender wise