OOTS #1218 - The Discussion Thread

[danielxcutter]

i stand corrected on CR xp rates. I just don't have the energy to do the research...

if he is sorcerer 26+ then his level is 30+ after templates...

Remember; they are doing the doors like evil PCs, templates need to be counted. Xykon doesn't really travel like most epics and is a big fish in a small pond. The idea of him still leveling after 21 or 22 seems unlikely to me; there just isn't enough stuff left in the material to challenge him after getting a +4 level template.

I can't say for sure if he is that high, as there are reasonable non-epic methods of doing some of the things he does. But at the same time it also doesn't really seem like he'd really be just level 21 or so.

Also FYI, the Nightcrawler the Ex-arch summoned with Gate is also a CR 18 monster. Dungeons that have more than one monster stronger than that, as well as many others not too far behind would be honestly pretty hard for the Order, especially considering how low-op they are.

[BriarHobbit]

Wow, this was so good. After the excitement of Durkon's retreat, we have the Order united, working together and Elan being Elan. The heat is on, and the suspense builds.

[Bar Deck Lore]

Excellent strip!

I loved everyone's skills coming to use in the decision-making, Elan's lampshade, and I especially loved Minrah's and Belkar's exchange in the final panel!

I also can't wait to find out what both teams are going to find behind their respective doors.

[Cavenskull]

That would entirely negate the MitD's massive "marking off wrong doors" Chekhov's Gun if Team Evil found the gate in this specific marked door. This is, essentially, the singular time the evil side hasn't found the gate before the good guys. Well, I suppose Girard, but the evil team was there before the good guys, they just fell for the double-bluff since it wasn't Team Evil because Xykon would've seen through that. Or at least decided to blow up the surrounding pillar and discovered it by accident that way.

There's also Soon's gate. Not only did they end up in its presence before Team Evil did, but they were also aware of that fact.

[Darth Paul]

Also FYI, the Nightcrawler the Ex-arch summoned with Gate is also a CR 18 monster. Dungeons that have more than one monster stronger than that, as well as many others not too far behind would be honestly pretty hard for the Order, especially considering how low-op they are.

Looking back, I don't think I've ever had an optimized character in any RPG, ever, in my life. It just seemed like too much work.

That's how I wound up with characters like an 18th level human Wizard who specialized in Transmutation, had a proficiency with the longsword (to match the miniature I was using), and had two hirelings to load and pass him heavy crossbows during rounds when he couldn't think of a spell to cast. And also the Run feat, because, you know how many spells have a range of "Touch"? Enemies hate that. You need to be able to run away real fast the next round.

[Anitar]

True, they wouldn't destroy the universe immediately. They would destroy the universe in less than ten to fifteen minutes.

If they all agree on that course of action beforehand, he says. They seem to be logjammed by the "Because four gates are gone, should we nuke the world?" question.

[Quartz]

So Serini who is the architect of this final obstacle is a rogue, just like Haley. I wonder if Haley realizes some kind of clue everyone else has been missing when choosing which door to go for?

It's a shell game.

[Edreyn]

It's a shell game.

In a shell game of a true professional, the prize isn't under any of cups at all. Maybe same about the Gate.

[Jaecp]

Oh my god! After how long? After so many years of jokes and frustration and growth we finally see Roy explicitly just ask for Elans advice and its like it was always meant to be!!!

I am squeeing in bed y'all, you got not idea!

Granted, Roy's probably just using him as a tie-breaker (aka he's been presented with two seemingly equally valid plans, prep for an immediate fight vs hide and draw things out), but I really do enjoy that Roy's realizing that Elan actually does have some sort of cosmic line on the story and how it should be going, and is trying to leverage that for some small tactical advantage.

.........but yeah, this is feeling like even more proof that we're going to get some sort of weird reveals behind at least one of the doors. Maybe it's the OOTS finding the actual gate, maybe it's Team Evil getting trounced, maybe both, but we're definitely well before the Final Confrontation period right now, who knows where things are going to be going...

Did durkon clue any of the rest of the order into this being an explicitly self aware world as per word of god?

[Hopeless]

Endgame spoiler

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If Elan had been in my MCU, that film would've played out differently :b

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Would this mean Elan would have been playing Star Lord?

[Jaecp]

My money was on "build to a false climax, THEN a rug pull brought about by some massive central plot twist, opening a whole new section of the story."

An overtime, if you will.

I've been thinking for almost a year now that this won't be the last book and that the real last book will be on the world of the snarl

[Sebastian]

Knowing Xykon I'd bet he insisted the wolf do charades, because it is hilarious..

[Darkever]

Roy that asks for plot advice to Elan is amazing ahahah. Absolutely brilliant! 😂😂😂

[deltamire]

I was just thinking . . . is this the first proper in-motion deliberation the Order's gotten since, uh . . . page 840, eight years ago??? V goes AWOL in the next couple of pages and then Durkon gets Gregg-ed (?) later on, so the Order is down by two until here, but that's more of a reunion than a tactics conference. Holy moly. No wonder everyone's feeling like the dynamics are good - we've been building to this for literal years!

Everyone's grown up and developed so much. Roy dealt with that whole bubbling trauma/chip on his shoulder combination about leadership in the Godsmoot Arc, Haley finally vented her feelings about not being a good person vis a vis her dad and Crystal, V is trying to make up for their . . . everything, Elan has taken up the role of support with gusto instead of following every whim, Durkon's got a new buddy and a new sense of direction, and Belkar is rolling down the thorny hill of Character Development whether he likes it or not. Go team. Everyone gets a lollipop and a sticker that says I partook in pan-party character development and it only took 1/3 of us croaking it to get here.

[Sebastian]

Guys, what if this has actually progressed further than we expected, but not in terms of “the final fight with Team Evil”.

What if that thunderous explosion Vaarsuvius heard was actually Team Evil inadvertently blowing up the last Gate somehow?

That... would change the current direction of everything A LOT.

An exploding gate would be much more obvious.

[Metastachydium]

An exploding gate would be much more obvious.

Not to mention that they would recognize that one by immediate auditory familiarity.

[Wysper]

Amazing to see how much growth they have all under gone. What an amazing story. Are we nearing the end? Supposed to be the last book, but as Elan said, too many loose threads (Snarl anyone?).

[woweedd]

Elan's skills may not be much, but, where it counts, they work.

[Fincher]

Amazing to see how much growth they have all under gone. What an amazing story. Are we nearing the end? Supposed to be the last book, but as Elan said, too many loose threads (Snarl anyone?).

Eh, the Snarl isn't that important. What we need to know is if anyone ever does buy something at Jiminy's Polearm Emporium.

[harami2000]

The real problem is we have established Greyview can track by scent. Unless someone can pop off an "eliminate scents for some distance" spell, he'll sniff them out.

Ha! Fuzzball's wolfie didn't get enough credit for taking the initiative to locate the dwarves or immediately choosing the best course of action when silenced, did they?

(Still wanting to see charading Greyview bonus art. Pretty pleeeeease...)

[BelgarathMTH]

I just can't wait to finally see what the Monster in the Dark is.

[WanderingMist]

none of the monster are specifically at Xykon's level that we know of. He remarked once that some were able to give him xp. His rough level is about 25 with class and templates. You can only get xp from encounters 8 levels above or below.

The CR of the monsters are in the mid teens with some being 17+ CR.

Well within the parties range.

Wait, why is there a limit on levels above granting XP? If you can take on something 10 levels above you somehow, I feel that should be worth more than 8 levels above you.

[Yendor]

The real problem is we have established Greyview can track by scent. Unless someone can pop off an "eliminate scents for some distance" spell, he'll sniff them out.

If only their ranger had enough Wisdom to cast 1st level spells.

[danielxcutter]

Wait, why is there a limit on levels above granting XP? If you can take on something 10 levels above you somehow, I feel that should be worth more than 8 levels above you.

Because if your DM is throwing something that higher than you, something is probably wrong I think. Ad-hoc XP is a thing at least.

It’s why I don’t feel comfortable pegging Xykon that high despite being the most likely scenario. He is so much higher level than anyone besides maybe the MitD that I’d bet 5k quatloos and my left arsecheek that Xykon ends up taken out by showing him into the Gate instead of the Order actually being capable of doing anything of worth.

[KorvinStarmast]

Supposed to be the last book, but as Elan said, too many loose threads (Snarl anyone?).

Yeah, and if we look back to strip 1 of this book, it starts with a whole bunch of snarly threads (well, yarn) And way back when, Odin had something to say about yarn... I see worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn

(Still wanting to see charading Greyview bonus art. Pretty pleeeeease...)

I'll second that request.

I just can't wait to finally see what the Monster in the Dark is.

I'll wager about two RL years from now; about mid book or so.

[The MunchKING]

I've been thinking for almost a year now that this won't be the last book and that the real last book will be on the world of the snarl

Well that would require Rich to be lying to us when he said this was the last book. I think a more reasonable answer would be it's not a different book it's just all crammed into one really big book.

Wait, why is there a limit on levels above granting XP? If you can take on something 10 levels above you somehow, I feel that should be worth more than 8 levels above you.

The idea is if your party beat something THAT much above you, you probably didn't contribute much. Also to keep a group of Level 1s from hanging out with a level 20 NPC and just siphoning off all his CR 20 encounters to just slingshot themselves over all the early levels. :p

[Jason]

Roy and Elan's relationship has actually come full circle. Roy put him on the team in the first place because Elan understood the genre conventions around building a team of adventurers. Now he's relying on Elan's knowledge of genre conventions to determine when a final battle should be fought. Elan is in effect doing the job he was hired for, and Roy finally understands how best to use Elan's talents for the party's success.

[Quartz]

In a shell game of a true professional, the prize isn't under any of cups at all. Maybe same about the Gate.

Precisely. We (the audience) were shown where the rift was in one of the crayon strips and it wasn't in the canyon.

[The MunchKING]

Precisely. We (the audience) were shown where the rift was in one of the crayon strips and it wasn't in the canyon.

I thought part of the reason they went broke though was that she built the plot-device "Can't warp through it" rock mountain around the rift.

[InvisibleBison]

Precisely. We (the audience) were shown where the rift was in one of the crayon strips and it wasn't in the canyon.

I was under the impression that the crayon strips depicted Shojo's understanding of the truth, not the actual truth, and thus didn't depict the actual layout of the area around Kraagor's gate, because Shojo didn't know the details of the layout. That's why the terrain depicted in #276 doesn't match with what is shown once the story actually reaches the area.