OOTS #1218 - The Discussion Thread

[Ron Miel]

Question:

As I understand it, Wind Walk is still in effect. Can't they just change back to cloud form at will and retreat? Why didn't they consider that?

I understand that it takes a few rounds, it isn't something that can be done in the middle of a fight. But they've got a minute or two before Xykon arrives. Is that enough time?

[Rogar Demonblud]

They don't know that they have minutes. So they need to be out of sight immediately. If they were following optimal tactics, they'd probably open a few more doors, hide a little ways down the tunnel and go vapor there. But OOTS is low-op, so that's not happening.

[Xel]

And everyone knows barbarian love nothing more than to fight the one big boss monster at the end! Therefore the gate is In a giant open arena protected by one big boss monster.

MiTD: oh, hi mom!

We can make almost* everyone's guess work simultaneously. Inside of the big boss monster in the arena is a block of multi-dimensional stone that they have to ignore while they dig through the rest of the monster to find the gate. The layout of all the dungeons spells "Gizzard" in elvish.

*I'm sure I've missed more than a few guesses, but there's always room for more.

[Yxylu]

I don't see any other way to obtain such precise figures other than manually counting everything. I think the question here isn't "how", so much as "why".

You nailed the “how,” as there really isn’t any other convenient way.

Spoiler: The why

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It started as a curiosity thing when I considered the idea that Vaarsuvius is so talkative. I was wondering whether V spoke the most out of all the characters, so I started counting words. Rather than just one big count, I broke it up into bite-sized chunks, so I counted by panel. I’ve been inputting that into Excel, and I can easily pull all sorts of random stats from it. The data entry was sort of tedious and time-consuming (I started this several years ago) at first, but keeping it up-to-date is fairly trivial. It takes just a few minutes whenever a new comic comes out.

To address my original question, though, Vaarsuvius is 5th place with 27,762 words. Roy is by far the first place, having 62,854 (both of those are as of 1218).

[The MunchKING]

You nailed the “how,” as there really isn’t any other convenient way.

Spoiler: The why

Show

It started as a curiosity thing when I considered the idea that Vaarsuvius is so talkative. I was wondering whether V spoke the most out of all the characters, so I started counting words. Rather than just one big count, I broke it up into bite-sized chunks, so I counted by panel. I’ve been inputting that into Excel, and I can easily pull all sorts of random stats from it. The data entry was sort of tedious and time-consuming (I started this several years ago) at first, but keeping it up-to-date is fairly trivial. It takes just a few minutes whenever a new comic comes out.

To address my original question, though, Vaarsuvius is 5th place with 27,762 words. Roy is by far the first place, having 62,854 (both of those are as of 1218).

I've got to imagine V's got a way higher Word/Panel (that she talks in) count than most of the others. Roy might edge her out given that he's the main character and does a lot of the talking and strategizing, but a per panel metric would probably make V's Loquaciousness much more apparent statistically.

[Yxylu]

I've got to imagine V's got a way higher Word/Panel (that she talks in) count than most of the others. Roy might edge her out given that he's the main character and does a lot of the talking and strategizing, but a per panel metric would probably make V's Loquaciousness much more apparent statistically.

Roy has 15.71 words per panel (where he speaks), while Vaarsuvius has 16.00. Keep in mind that a lot of the things V says are two or three words long, with neat special effects to go along with them.

Edit - I made an Excel error, so the numbers above aren’t right. Roy should be 15.18, and Vaarsuvius 16.48. Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks for suggesting this metric, by the way. It’s opened up some interesting observations. Durkon’s average almost doubles, since he spends a lot of panels not saying anything. Also, of the characters that speak in over 10 panels (eliminating silliness like the dwarves contractors building Dorukan’s castle), the character with the most words in a panel with speaking is the Bloodstone Warden with 28.45.

[KorvinStarmast]

Roy is by far the first place having 62,854 (both of those are as of 1218)

As Thog might have said: Talky man talk too much

[The MunchKING]

the character with the most words in a panel with speaking is the Bloodstone Warden with 28.45.

It kind of makes sense. His whole job was to exposit on the gladiatorial session then leave.

[jackal59]

Things are serious when Roy is looking to Elan for information to base their tactics on.
Not even a joke; it is showing the growth of the group, understanding everyone's 'strength' is still a strength worth using.

This also shows Rich's growth as a writer. He started out very good, but he's only gotten better. Who knew that, after reading epic fantasy since I was a teenager in the 1970s, one of the best epic fantasies I would end up reading would be told with stick figures?

[KorvinStarmast]

This also shows Rich's growth as a writer. He started out very good, but he's only gotten better. Who knew that, after reading epic fantasy since I was a teenager in the 1970s, one of the best epic fantasies I would end up reading would be told with stick figures?

what epic fantasies would those have been? Kurtz? Moorcock? Tolkien? Burroughs?

[Ruck]

This also shows Rich's growth as a writer. He started out very good, but he's only gotten better. Who knew that, after reading epic fantasy since I was a teenager in the 1970s, one of the best epic fantasies I would end up reading would be told with stick figures?

Rich really is one of my favorite storytellers working today. Web comics and fantasy aren't my usual medium, but he's just so good at creating rich characters, plausible and well-plotted drama, and with plenty of humor to make each strip entertaining as well. OOTS is one of my favorite dramatic works in recent years.

[Drake Halfmoon]

I was hoping for Roy to give Durkon a slice of Hell for jeopardizing the whole mission, but I understand that current priorities require cooler heads.

Besides, there'll be plenty of time for Roy to beat Durkon's head in later on.

[Riftwolf]

I have Uncivil Servant, if that is what you are referring to. It does not offer him a back story, but it does illustrate his bloody handed nature before he arrived at OoTPCs

Spoiler: Otootpcs spoiler?

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in a jail cell

and before his general "stab it as a default" in DCF.
A Ranger, then?

Rogues are just factory-farmed Rangers, after all.

[Snails]

I understand that it takes a few rounds, it isn't something that can be done in the middle of a fight. But they've got a minute or two before Xykon arrives. Is that enough time?

If they guess wrong about the timing and Xykon sees them while within dispelling range (circa 350 feet for X.), then a lot of them are suddenly and permanently dead. Getting out of line of sight increases their likelihood of successful escape by a lot. If they could foil the tracking by some means, entering a door could buy them hours or days.

[Snails]

I believe the Prophet told the Order there were 9 sides, or something like that?

We cannot get to a denouement until a few more sides are on the scene.

I am in a tiny minority, but I am pretty sure that "9 sides" is a joke about the nine alignments. Which in context would mean that everyone is in the Gate Quest, whether they know it or not. So there are nine teams "or more" because not all "teams" are working towards the same purpose.

[Gurgeh]

The "I count at least nine" comes from one of the Demon Roaches in 548. As such, it's not something the Order would have any idea about at all, and is only loosely confined by the fourth wall.

Note that "at least" is a lower bound, not a precise target number.

[ebarde]

I think the demon roaches are refering at least partially to the fiend triumvirate? Because that's the only side I can see them knowing more about than Redcloak, unless they have some larger plot thing going on which I think it's doubtful.

[Gurgeh]

I think anything the Demon Roaches say needs to be taken with a grain of salt because they break the fourth wall all the time; they don't need diegetic reasons to know about any of the kerfuffle surrounding the gates, they're able to drop hints because the author uses them to tell jokes.

[locksmith of lo]

In a shell game of a true professional, the prize isn't under any of cups at all. Maybe same about the Gate.

but it seems that everyone knows that, and that it is what everyone expects. even haley would think this is the most likely scenario. which makes me suspicious that it is a fake out, so i think that it is under all the cups. just hidden in a way that certain conditions must be met to open the path.

[arimareiji]

I think anything the Demon Roaches say needs to be taken with a grain of salt because they break the fourth wall all the time; they don't need diegetic reasons to know about any of the kerfuffle surrounding the gates, they're able to drop hints because the author uses them to tell jokes.

They made a toss-off joke about how there are "at least nine" sides to the conflict, and the theory that it was in reference to the alignments seems to hold water.

Even if it's not just a toss-off joke, I'm not sure what value can be gleaned from becoming a Roach Whisperer... is it not a truism that in a conflict that involves a world full of people, there will actually be at least dozens, hundreds, or thousands of distinct "sides" all trying to get what's best for them?

[Deathhappens]

Wow. Possibly the single (double?) strip where everyone's pesonality is best displayed, all at once.

I don't see Belkar murdering or making threats/jokes about murdering other sentient beings, though.
Which brings me to... Belkar IS alive for the final battle, take that prophecy!

[hamishspence]

It never said he'd die before the final battle though - so it can still be true, with him dying during, or after, the battle, but still less than 7 weeks from the end of book 4.

[Goblin_Priest]

They made a toss-off joke about how there are "at least nine" sides to the conflict, and the theory that it was in reference to the alignments seems to hold water.

Even if it's not just a toss-off joke, I'm not sure what value can be gleaned from becoming a Roach Whisperer... is it not a truism that in a conflict that involves a world full of people, there will actually be at least dozens, hundreds, or thousands of distinct "sides" all trying to get what's best for them?

It could be a reference to the alignments, but so far, none of the sides we have seen have been alignment-driven. The Order of the Stick has the full spectrum of alignments, basically. The Linear Guild had some diversity as far as I can tell. Team Evil as well, Redcloak probably being LE, Xykon probably being CE, MitD probably being N (though early depictions hinted more at NE), Oona being an unknown E, Tsukiko probably being NE, and former allies like Right-Eye being CN iirc. The IFCC is all three evils. The Vector Legion has diversity as well. God-side, none of the votes tend to match the alignment divisions, Thor is inconsistently-aligned, and Loki's on all sides (while also only being on his own side).

This comic never really showed any faction that could be defined by belonging to one of the 9 alignments.

[KorvinStarmast]

This comic never really showed any faction that could be defined by belonging to one of the 9 alignments.

Even though Miko was squarely depicted as Lawful Stupid, the 11th alignment. (The 10th alignment is of course Chaotic Stupid, the alignment of many "my guy syndrome" PCs who make games difficult)
We haven't had a Miko digression in a while, anyone up for one?

[danielxcutter]

Eh, you can make any alignment stupid. It’s more a player problem than anything; I’ve had a CN, LN, and NE player in the same party and well it wasn’t all roses but we did get along fairly well until the DM had RL issues. Of course that being said, each of us was explicitly chosen to represent a god so we could find and destroy the artifacts the campaign revolved around. Which could seal gods if used right apparently. That’s almost a Snarl-level threat.

[InvisibleBison]

Since the "nine sides" remark has been brought up, I feel obliged to point out that the sides in question were defined as being involved in the conflict over the gates as of #548. People or groups that got involved after that comic wouldn't be among the nine sides, which rules out such frequently nominated contenders as the Vector Legion, Hel, and arguably the IFCC.

[understatement]

Since the "nine sides" remark has been brought up, I feel obliged to point out that the sides in question were defined as being involved in the conflict over the gates as of #548. People or groups that got involved after that comic wouldn't be among the nine sides, which rules out such frequently nominated contenders as the Vector Legion, Hel, and arguably the IFCC.

The Vector Legion definitely were involved in the race for the Gates -- initially by Tarquin, and then Laurin wanted to secure one for the water supply. The IFCC explicitly say in #668 that their conflict has been about the Gates. Hel doesn't have a gate involvement, but her plans involve destroying the world, which capitalized on a gate being blown up.

***

Spoiler: 9 sides speculation

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On my personal spec, it would be the Order, Xykon (plus Tsukiko), Redcloak (goblins, the Dark One), Linear Guild, the IFCC, the Vector Legion, Hel's forces, the Scribble, and the mysterious voices. While the following are prominent factions, the Thieves' Guild isn't in the world-risking business, and the Sapphire Guard for all purposes is allied with the Order. Other groups (Amun-Zora's rebellion, Haley's rebel group, the Mechane) aren't pivotal or developed enough to tie in with the main gate business.

[Petrocorus]

(The 10th alignment is of course Chaotic Stupid, the alignment of many "my guy syndrome" PCs who make games difficult)

Yep. I feel like this alignment is more and more common.
But maybe it's the people i play with...

[KorvinStarmast]

Hel doesn't have a gate involvement, but her plans involve destroying the world, which capitalized on a gate being blown up.

Spoiler: 9 sides speculation

Show

On my personal spec, it would be the Order, Xykon (plus Tsukiko), Redcloak (goblins, the Dark One), Linear Guild, the IFCC, the Vector Legion, Hel's forces, the Scribble, and the mysterious voices. While the following are prominent factions, the Thieves' Guild isn't in the world-risking business, and the Sapphire Guard for all purposes is allied with the Order. Other groups (Amun-Zora's rebellion, Haley's rebel group, the Mechane) aren't pivotal or developed enough to tie in with the main gate business.

What gate? Actually, I like your groupings, and the ones you point to being outside the 'sides' based on gate focus.

[Metastachydium]

The Vector Legion definitely were involved in the race for the Gates -- initially by Tarquin, and then Laurin wanted to secure one for the water supply. The IFCC explicitly say in #668 that their conflict has been about the Gates. Hel doesn't have a gate involvement, but her plans involve destroying the world, which capitalized on a gate being blown up.

***

Spoiler: 9 sides speculation

Show

On my personal spec, it would be the Order, Xykon (plus Tsukiko), Redcloak (goblins, the Dark One), Linear Guild, the IFCC, the Vector Legion, Hel's forces, the Scribble, and the mysterious voices. While the following are prominent factions, the Thieves' Guild isn't in the world-risking business, and the Sapphire Guard for all purposes is allied with the Order. Other groups (Amun-Zora's rebellion, Haley's rebel group, the Mechane) aren't pivotal or developed enough to tie in with the main gate business.

I don't know. Tarquin did not care much about the Gates (he only got involved in the whole deal because both of his sons were involved) and Laurin's design for Girard's Rift was strictly private business which had precious little to do with the Legion as a faction, while the Scribbler's as a cohesive group have not been a thing for decades at that point.
Consequently, my big nine seven would rather be Team Good (the Order, the Guard and MitD), the Church of the Dark One, Xykon, the IFCC, the Linears (arguably – they served as pawns to the IFCC, but only Sabine knew that and they had an agenda of their own), Girard's clan (which was still around and hostile to elements of Team Good when the comment was made) and the Voices (whom I believe to be affiliated with the Church of Tiamat, but that's, of course, probably just me). As for the rest, the Church of Hel could indeed fit if the roaches have some manner of precognition; the Church of Tiamat could be involved (they know about the Gates, after all) if the Voices aren't with them; the Church of Thor could arguably be a separate side, since their priorities slightly differ from those of Team Good; and we might consider the Elves (the Elven Command knows about the Rifts) or the Holey Brotherhood (unlikely) or Baron Pineapple (probably dead).