OOTS #1218 - The Discussion Thread

[understatement]

What gate? Actually, I like your groupings, and the ones you point to being outside the 'sides' based on gate focus.

Thanks

I don't know. Tarquin did not care much about the Gates (he only got involved in the whole deal because both of his sons were involved) and Laurin's design for Girard's Rift was strictly private business which had precious little to do with the Legion as a faction, while the Scribbler's as a cohesive group have not been a thing for decades at that point.
Consequently, my big nine seven would rather be Team Good (the Order, the Guard and MitD), the Church of the Dark One, Xykon, the IFCC, the Linears (arguably – they served as pawns to the IFCC, but only Sabine knew that and they had an agenda of their own), Girard's clan (which was still around and hostile to elements of Team Good when the comment was made) and the Voices (whom I believe to be affiliated with the Church of Tiamat, but that's, of course, probably just me). As for the rest, the Church of Hel could indeed fit if the roaches have some manner of precognition; the Church of Tiamat could be involved (they know about the Gates, after all) if the Voices aren't with them; the Church of Thor could arguably be a separate side, since their priorities slightly differ from those of Team Good; and we might consider the Elves (the Elven Command knows about the Rifts) or the Holey Brotherhood (unlikely) or Baron Pineapple (probably dead).

These are good points, but I also tried to arrange the factions on their a) degree of antagonism/influence and b) animosity with the main characters.

It's true that Tarquin doesn't really care about the gates, but it's ultimately his hunt for it that pushes Roy to blow the Gate, and it's Laurin probing the rift that has the Snarl busting out as well.

I wouldn't say the MiTD is on the Order's side -- he is certainly on O-Chul's, sure, but he's not really allied with the Order.

I don't know about the Church of Thor -- there's just not that many developed characters in it, and Thor is essentially on the Order's side anyways. Slightly differing goals probably don't determine a faction, or else Durkon and Roy would be considered separate as well.

Elves, Holy Brotherhood -- not really important. Long dead, long defeated, not powerful or influential, and the titular Order has no connection to them.

TLDR; I was thinking that each faction should be a sizeable force enough to have a stake in the conflict. Obviously I'm not sure, since there could still be way more factions and there's also the whole riftworld thing.

[Dion]

which makes me suspicious that it is a fake out,

You know what is the ultimate fake out? Getting people to play the wrong game.

[InvisibleBison]

The Vector Legion definitely were involved in the race for the Gates -- initially by Tarquin, and then Laurin wanted to secure one for the water supply. The IFCC explicitly say in #668 that their conflict has been about the Gates. Hel doesn't have a gate involvement, but her plans involve destroying the world, which capitalized on a gate being blown up.

***

Spoiler: 9 sides speculation

Show

On my personal spec, it would be the Order, Xykon (plus Tsukiko), Redcloak (goblins, the Dark One), Linear Guild, the IFCC, the Vector Legion, Hel's forces, the Scribble, and the mysterious voices. While the following are prominent factions, the Thieves' Guild isn't in the world-risking business, and the Sapphire Guard for all purposes is allied with the Order. Other groups (Amun-Zora's rebellion, Haley's rebel group, the Mechane) aren't pivotal or developed enough to tie in with the main gate business.

Yes, the Vector Legion and Hel both got involved in the struggle over the control of the Gates - but neither of them were involved in the struggle at the time that the demon-roach remarked about their being nine sides. And the Order of the Scribble couldn't have been one of the nine sides, because at that time the Order of the Scribble no longer existed.

A good point about the IFCC, though. I'd forgotten that.

[Metastachydium]

These are good points, but I also tried to arrange the factions on their a) degree of antagonism/influence and b) animosity with the main characters.

Which is a good call overall, and part of the reason why I recommended replacing the Scribblers with the Draketooth clan.

It's true that Tarquin doesn't really care about the gates, but it's ultimately his hunt for it that pushes Roy to blow the Gate, and it's Laurin probing the rift that has the Snarl busting out as well.

Still, it does not make them relevant as a faction. Tarquin simply assisted the Linears, while Laurin was doing her own thing.

I wouldn't say the MiTD is on the Order's side -- he is certainly on O-Chul's, sure, but he's not really allied with the Order.

Well, since O-Chul and the Monster are on the same side, O-Chul and the Order are on the same side and the Monster recognizes the Order as O-Chul's friends, I'd say they arguably are on the same side. Anyhow, I can't think of a better place where we could put the Monster.

I don't know about the Church of Thor -- there's just not that many developed characters in it, and Thor is essentially on the Order's side anyways. Slightly differing goals probably don't determine a faction, or else Durkon and Roy would be considered separate as well.

Yeah, I'm not sure about this one either. However, dual affiliation is absolutely a thing (think of Sabine) and Durkon is affiliated with both the Order and the Church. In fact, much of book seven was about how his loyalty to the latter messed up the plans of the former.

Elves, Holy Brotherhood -- not really important. Long dead, long defeated, not powerful or influential, and the titular Order has no connection to them.

I wouldn't say the elves are not powerful or influential enough, but it is definitely true that they had little presence as a faction in the comic, and thereby they have little, so to say, narrative weight.

TLDR; I was thinking that each faction should be a sizeable force enough to have a stake in the conflict.

I'd still argue that the Church of Tiamat has the potential to fit the bill.

Obviously I'm not sure, since there could still be way more factions and there's also the whole riftworld thing.

Well, yeah. But that never stopped anyone from speculatin' around, did it?

[Riftwolf]

Wild 9 sides speculation

Got to love how the forums can take something probably intended as a throwaway gag and extrapolate it out into ultracanon. Remember that Jirix only stamped on one roach, therefore that roach must've been on its own side from the other roaches, and wiping out that faction was Jirixs Moral Event Horizon.

[Wraithfighter]

Two potential other factions:

Serini: A halfling's average life expectancy is 150 years (well, assuming they avoid playing in traffic, stay away from mystical gates that seal up god-killing powers, and don't take up adventuring as a career), so it wouldn't take any special magic for her to still be around, and if she were still alive, she'd definitely have a vested interest in what's going on with the Gates (that might not align with all of our heroes).

And, well, we haven't seen a body yet, have we? The team finally meeting one of the Order of the Scribbles would be a fitting thing to happen in the final book and all that.

The Snarl: I think it could count as having a stake in what happens to the gates, and its definitely a powerful force. Sure, it's only been talked about as being this unthinking, chaotic force... but there is that planet behind the gates. There's a huge amount of unknowns about the most powerful entity in the setting, promoting it to a "Faction" definitely seems at least worth considering.

[Ron Miel]

Two potential other factions:

Serini: ...
And, well, we haven't seen a body yet, have we? .

No, but Xykon acquired her diary. We don't know the details, but somehow I doubt she survived it.

[Anitar]

So, if the OotS and Xykon's group are (about to be) in the dungeons at the same time... I'm thinking the perspective will cut away to someone else, just to maintain the "it's a good thing nobody has to draw the dungeon interiors" joke. Personally I'm hoping for the Mystery Voices.

[Goblin_Priest]

Two potential other factions:

Serini: A halfling's average life expectancy is 150 years (well, assuming they avoid playing in traffic, stay away from mystical gates that seal up god-killing powers, and don't take up adventuring as a career), so it wouldn't take any special magic for her to still be around, and if she were still alive, she'd definitely have a vested interest in what's going on with the Gates (that might not align with all of our heroes).

And, well, we haven't seen a body yet, have we? The team finally meeting one of the Order of the Scribbles would be a fitting thing to happen in the final book and all that.

The Snarl: I think it could count as having a stake in what happens to the gates, and its definitely a powerful force. Sure, it's only been talked about as being this unthinking, chaotic force... but there is that planet behind the gates. There's a huge amount of unknowns about the most powerful entity in the setting, promoting it to a "Faction" definitely seems at least worth considering.

Now that you mention it, what *did* happen to her?

Also, in how many pages have we seen her? More than 1? Edit: damn, at least two. There goes that theory.

[understatement]

Yes, the Vector Legion and Hel both got involved in the struggle over the control of the Gates - but neither of them were involved in the struggle at the time that the demon-roach remarked about their being nine sides. And the Order of the Scribble couldn't have been one of the nine sides, because at that time the Order of the Scribble no longer existed.

A good point about the IFCC, though. I'd forgotten that.

The thing about the 9 sides is that, in one of the commentaries (I only got the book relatively recently) Rich does mention "book 5 will introduce at least one new side." So the roaches' commentaries definitely extend beyond their current context.

Which is a good call overall, and part of the reason why I recommended replacing the Scribblers with the Draketooth clan.



Still, it does not make them relevant as a faction. Tarquin simply assisted the Linears, while Laurin was doing her own thing.



Well, since O-Chul and the Monster are on the same side, O-Chul and the Order are on the same side and the Monster recognizes the Order as O-Chul's friends, I'd say they arguably are on the same side. Anyhow, I can't think of a better place where we could put the Monster.



Yeah, I'm not sure about this one either. However, dual affiliation is absolutely a thing (think of Sabine) and Durkon is affiliated with both the Order and the Church. In fact, much of book seven was about how his loyalty to the latter messed up the plans of the former.



I wouldn't say the elves are not powerful or influential enough, but it is definitely true that they had little presence as a faction in the comic, and thereby they have little, so to say, narrative weight.



I'd still argue that the Church of Tiamat has the potential to fit the bill.



Well, yeah. But that never stopped anyone from speculatin' around, did it?

Fair. I can't say I agree with all of 'em, but I agree that the MiTD will likely join the Order as an ally towards the end.

Got to love how the forums can take something probably intended as a throwaway gag and extrapolate it out into ultracanon. Remember that Jirix only stamped on one roach, therefore that roach must've been on its own side from the other roaches, and wiping out that faction was Jirixs Moral Event Horizon.

The 9 sides comment is mentioned in BRiTF's commentary and taken relatively seriously, so there might be a bit of merit for wild extrapolation.

Jirix + roaches jokes never get old.

[Fincher]

I'd be inclined to separate the sides by what they're trying to accomplish vis a vis the gates, rather than team affiliation:

- The Order (and aligned groups and characters) want to maintain the world as is by stopping the manipulation or destruction of the gates and thereby stopping the gods from destroying the world.

- Thor and his allied gods want to form an alliance and make the gates stronger to seal the Snarl for good. These goals might not seem different from The Order because Roy was willing to eventually negotiate with Redcloak, but I think it comes down to a question of priority. I don't think Roy is willing to lay the future of the world on the line for a chance of ending the cycle, and so Durkon and Minrah's loyalty to The Order as opposed to the gods was challenged.

- The other gods want to destroy the world and seal the Snarl again, but will stop if the gates are sealed. Again, not different general goals, but differences in priorities and what they're willing to risk.

- Hel and her followers I would separate because she wants to destroy the world even if it's not needed to stop the Snarl. If there were other gods in that same boat (I'm not going to go back and read all their motivations), they can be added to this group.

- Xykon wants Xykon to rule the world.

- Redcloak wants to raise up goblinkind and stick it to everyone else.

- Tarquin wants the story to be about him, so I guess he would either want to be the villain of the gate story or for the gate story to get out of the way.

- The Snarl wants to destroy.

- Oona wants the monsters in the tunnels to not be depleted and to help the bugbear community.

- Nod, get treat.

- I don't know what the IFCC wants, but it's clear they want something, and it can reasonably be expected to be its own particular goal.

Some characters, like the voices that took O-Chul and Lien, are unaccounted for in terms of their goals. Some like Hilgya are probably just concerned with their own survival or the survival of those close to them, but then they're not likely to involve themselves in the conflict at this point.

Looking back at when the "9 sides" comment was made, Oona and Greyview would need to be left out, but that's still nine that could be theorized to have existed in some capacity. The Vector Legion/Linear Guild were involving themselves even if they didn't know what the gates were or how they might benefit them.

[InvisibleBison]

The thing about the 9 sides is that, in one of the commentaries (I only got the book relatively recently) Rich does mention "book 5 will introduce at least one new side." So the roaches' commentaries definitely extend beyond their current context.

What? No they don't. When he made the remark about their being nine sides, the demon roach was referring to a specific set of factions. The fact that additional factions would later get involved in the conflict doesn't change who the original factions the demon roach was referring to were. A list of "the 9 sides" that includes factions that didn't get involved until after #548, such as the Vector Legion or Hel, is wrong.

[Wraithfighter]

No, but Xykon acquired her diary. We don't know the details, but somehow I doubt she survived it.

Sure, but it's the sort of thing that kinda demands being spelled out.

Not that she's definitely alive, of course. But note that for every other member of the Order of the Scribbles, their death (...or whatever you want to call Dorukan and Lirian's situation) is explicit. Serini's the only one for whom it's ambiguous.

Besides, it's a diary, and it was stated during the flashback that introduced the Scribbles that she wasn't ready to retire. She could've gone on some more adventures, lost the book or something, and it falls into evil hands (maybe with a bit of divine aid from the Dark One, who knows about the Snarl and didn't make any accords with the other gods about telling his followers about it).

[Fincher]

What? No they don't. When he made the remark about their being nine sides, the demon roach was referring to a specific set of factions. The fact that additional factions would later get involved in the conflict doesn't change who the original factions the demon roach was referring to were. A list of "the 9 sides" that includes factions that didn't get involved until after #548, such as the Vector Legion or Hel, is wrong.

Hmm, I was thinking the roach said it later than that, so yeah, the Vector Legion would be out (the Linear Guild not so much, since they were involved in "this conflict" in a broader sense). Hel, though, could well have been pushing for the world to be destroyed at that point, since two gates were destroyed and Xykon had an army.

[Petrocorus]

and the Voices (whom I believe to be affiliated with the Church of Tiamat, but that's, of course, probably just me).

I myself still believe they are of draconic nature. Their speech bubble fit.

or Baron Pineapple (probably dead).

Who?

[Wraithfighter]

Who?

Baron Pineapple was namedropped as a particularly dumb villain during the Scribbles flashback way back when, I have a feeling he's not going to be in play now :D.

[InvisibleBison]

Hel, though, could well have been pushing for the world to be destroyed at that point, since two gates were destroyed and Xykon had an army.

Until Durkon was vampirized, Hel had no way to get involved in the conflict over the Gates. It's possible she had developed her plan (or a version of it, anyway) before then, but without the ability to actually implement it I don't think it would make sense to consider her one of the 9 sides.

[Jaecp]

I know there's a recency bias at work here, but dang it, this was easily one of the funniest lines in the comic so far:

"I love how this team listens to each other and works together."
"That's only 'cause we tried every other option first."

I actually regret Elan's line immediately after. It just couldn't compare to the brilliance of Belkar's line. I literally laughed out loud until there were tears in my eyes.

Thank you, Giant. Thank you.

No joke, Belkars line was so perfect I came here right away to talk about the comic and was super confused when people talked about Elans last comment and I had to go back and look

Definately better ending on Belkar!

[Ruck]

What? No they don't. When he made the remark about their being nine sides, the demon roach was referring to a specific set of factions. The fact that additional factions would later get involved in the conflict doesn't change who the original factions the demon roach was referring to were. A list of "the 9 sides" that includes factions that didn't get involved until after #548, such as the Vector Legion or Hel, is wrong.

The roach also says "Shh! They don't know about some of those yet!" which, given how regularly they break the fourth wall, probably means we, the reader, don't know about some of the sides yet-- because they haven't appeared yet in the comic.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I figure Serini is still alive simply because somebody has to explain about the Scribblers.

[InvisibleBison]

The roach also says "Shh! They don't know about some of those yet!" which, given how regularly they break the fourth wall, probably means we, the reader, don't know about some of the sides yet-- because they haven't appeared yet in the comic.

I agree with you, but I'm not sure what your point has to do with my post that you quoted.

[Ruck]

I agree with you, but I'm not sure what your point has to do with my post that you quoted.

I misread a word and thought you were taking the opposite position.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

This was a really fantastic strip. I wonder if there is going to be more chewing-out happening once (or if) the Order makes it to safety. I also think it would have been very surprising for the big fight to happen right now, so I was not surprised that Elan made this call. It will certainly be interesting to see where the plot steps next.

[Olinser]

- The Snarl wants to destroy.

You know, honestly, I'm not sure you can actually say that definitively.

All information we've gotten from the Snarl has either been 3rd-hand information from other mortals, and from a short exposition dump from Thor.

I was kind of thinking about this recently.

TBH, I'm not sure that the Gods are being totally truthful about the deaths of the East pantheon, what exactly the Snarl has done in the past, and what it actually wants.

I find it quite interesting that they claim that the ENTIRE East pantheon was wiped out by the Snarl, but then it seems like no other gods have been killed by the Snarl, ever, in the entire cycle, despite it allegedly breaking free and ravaging millions of worlds. This seems very odd to me that the Gods seem to be able to easily evade the Snarl every time it breaks free, and that all they have to do is hide and wait for it to 'calm down', before they can easily and automatically trap it again without any apparent casualties.

It's also quite odd that despite the amount of cycles they've gone through, and the apparent number of new gods that have risen on this world alone, that the number of Gods is VERY small. There's only 12 in the south, what appears to be 19 in the West, and 18 in the North. Sure Thor commented that a lot of Gods don't have enough power to make the jump between worlds, but with the sheer number of previous worlds involved, even if you only got 1 new got every 1000 worlds, there should be hundreds or thousands of Gods. How are there so few Gods in this world if they've been doing this for so long, and new Gods are regularly arising?

It's also very odd that despite a number of the Gods of various pantheons voting to keep the world going, not a single one other than Thor and Loki have actually lifted a finger to do anything about it. Why did not every single God that voted to keep the world going send out followers to guard the final Rift?

I also find it quite interesting that the Gods have been explicitly wiping the memories of the Outsiders every cycle, so that the only ones that actually KNOW what's happening is the Gods themselves.

And of course we have the fact that we have seen ANOTHER PLANET in the Rift. This simply does not line up with the claim that the Snarl destroys the world every time it gets loose. To be blunt, I see no way you can reconcile the existence of an intact planet in the Rift with the Snarl, and the claim that the Snarl is this unthinking force that automatically destroys the world the second it gets loose.

Something is clearly off about the information we have been given about the Snarl, and it FEELS to me like the Gods are just straight up lying about it. For what exact reason is up for debate.

It almost feels to me like they had a war among the Gods that ended with the Eastern pantheon dead, that the mass killing of Gods is what created the Snarl, and they've been using it as a boogeyman since then to control any new Gods that arise, that the Snarl ACTUALLY only wants to kill the Gods in revenge for the East's deaths, and that they're killing any new Gods that don't step in line.

Either that or the Snarl is not nearly as malevolent as the Gods are claiming.

[Wraithfighter]

While I agree with just about everything you said... there is this one bit:

Something is clearly off about the information we have been given about the Snarl, and it FEELS to me like the Gods are just straight up lying about it. For what exact reason is up for debate.

I don't think the Gods are lying to the mortals about what the deal with the Snarl is. Going back to #1150, Thor and Odin's last panel has Thor wondering what's Durkon was talking about regarding the planet inside the Rifts.

And these are two of the most prominent gods in the pantheon. Granted, one of them has occasional bouts of sort-senility-because-of-magic-magic-magic-reasons, but still, Thor not knowing about that thing implies a lot.

And it's not just them. The IFFC leaders also don't seem to know anything about what's behind the rift, based on their reactions to Blackwing pausing at the rift at a critical moment.

It might just be a new development. Also note that the Sapphire Guard didn't seem to mention anything about a planet, and, well, their founding member was about as close to the Rifts back in the day as you could get.

So, no, I don't think its anything malicious on the part of the Gods. I think they're as much in the dark about, well, everyone on this subject...

[Riftwolf]

I find it quite interesting that they claim that the ENTIRE East pantheon was wiped out by the Snarl, but then it seems like no other gods have been killed by the Snarl, ever, in the entire cycle, despite it allegedly breaking free and ravaging millions of worlds. This seems very odd to me that the Gods seem to be able to easily evade the Snarl every time it breaks free, and that all they have to do is hide and wait for it to 'calm down', before they can easily and automatically trap it again without any apparent casualties.

It's possible the Gods travelled to the world after its creation, as many mythologies describe. If the Snarl rolled up on Olympus first, it'd give the other Gods warning enough to stay out of the Material Plane, a rule they've kept to since.
Also 'easily and automatically' might be overstating things.

It's also quite odd that despite the amount of cycles they've gone through, and the apparent number of new gods that have risen on this world alone, that the number of Gods is VERY small. There's only 12 in the south, what appears to be 19 in the West, and 18 in the North. Sure Thor commented that a lot of Gods don't have enough power to make the jump between worlds, but with the sheer number of previous worlds involved, even if you only got 1 new got every 1000 worlds, there should be hundreds or thousands of Gods. How are there so few Gods in this world if they've been doing this for so long, and new Gods are regularly arising?

I feel like this is a fallacy. The best way I can think to describe it is with paychecks. New Gods like the Dark One live hand to mouth with the power they get. Old Gods like Thor are millionaires, and if they skip a few paychecks it won't hurt them as badly. We also don't know how many Gods ascended and faded out before.
Also, weren't you saying how there's no apparent casualties with the Snarl? How do we know previous Gods haven't been caught out by the Snarl, and Thor doesn't like to talk about it?

It's also very odd that despite a number of the Gods of various pantheons voting to keep the world going, not a single one other than Thor and Loki have actually lifted a finger to do anything about it. Why did not every single God that voted to keep the world going send out followers to guard the final Rift?

First off, Thor did. Secondly, if every no-vote God sent out followers to guard the rift, every yes-vote God would send out followers to destroy it. This is ignoring the fact that the Gods have rules about telling mortals about the rifts, which Thor circumvented because Durkon already knew about them. Even Dvalin doesn't explicitly state what the danger is.

And of course we have the fact that we have seen ANOTHER PLANET in the Rift. This simply does not line up with the claim that the Snarl destroys the world every time it gets loose. To be blunt, I see no way you can reconcile the existence of an intact planet in the Rift with the Snarl, and the claim that the Snarl is this unthinking force that automatically destroys the world the second it gets loose.

I can think of a few ways to reconcile the existence of the planet. 1) The Snarl is made up of threads of reality which, when seen by mortals, look like real things like oceans and planets and such. 2) after billions of years of Chaos, random happenstance has created shapes in the madness; how long they remain is unknown, 3) The Snarl isn't mindless, instead driven by the desire to create its own worlds and souls to have dominion over. To feed its creation, it has to grab the threads of the previous world.

Something is clearly off about the information we have been given about the Snarl, and it FEELS to me like the Gods are just straight up lying about it. For what exact reason is up for debate.

It almost feels to me like they had a war among the Gods that ended with the Eastern pantheon dead, that the mass killing of Gods is what created the Snarl, and they've been using it as a boogeyman since then to control any new Gods that arise, that the Snarl ACTUALLY only wants to kill the Gods in revenge for the East's deaths, and that they're killing any new Gods that don't step in line.

Either that or the Snarl is not nearly as malevolent as the Gods are claiming.

My main issue with this idea is there would have to be a series of rug pulls for this to be true, and it would negate a lot of previous reveals in doing so. I find 'the Gods are mistaken' or 'the Gods have limited information' to be more interesting than 'the Gods are outright lying'. The final scene in the desert with Laurin was to show that the Snarl was a legitimate threat (to counteract Roy and Vs speculation that it wasn't).

[Jacky720]

It's also very odd that despite a number of the Gods of various pantheons voting to keep the world going, not a single one other than Thor and Loki have actually lifted a finger to do anything about it. Why did not every single God that voted to keep the world going send out followers to guard the final Rift?

Because that would require telling them what Kraagor's Gate is, or at the very least where Kraagor's gate is, which is against The Rules. They would probably need a second Godsmoot to make an exception, and moots are rare enough that I might say they can't have two at once.

[F.Harr]

Sorry, El-baby. It's too late. You've cast the die/dice and you're knee-deep in the Rubicon!

[Fyraltari]

I just want to point out that the question of why there isn't a few thousand gods can br answered by "The Giant needed to keep the Godsmoot scenes manageable."

[arimareiji]

It could be a reference to the alignments, but so far, none of the sides we have seen have been alignment-driven. The Order of the Stick has the full spectrum of alignments, basically. The Linear Guild had some diversity as far as I can tell. Team Evil as well, Redcloak probably being LE, Xykon probably being CE, MitD probably being N (though early depictions hinted more at NE), Oona being an unknown E, Tsukiko probably being NE, and former allies like Right-Eye being CN iirc. The IFCC is all three evils. The Vector Legion has diversity as well. God-side, none of the votes tend to match the alignment divisions, Thor is inconsistently-aligned, and Loki's on all sides (while also only being on his own side).

This comic never really showed any faction that could be defined by belonging to one of the 9 alignments.

Indeed, which I think was all part of the joke. The context was Redcloak was telling Jirix that just because they're all Evil, doesn't mean they're all on the same side (aside from a common general desire to stick it to characters who have defined themselves as "Good"). Redcloak destroys the notion that "sides" are necessarily alignment-driven... which sets up the roaches' counterpoint joke, that if "sides" were all about alignment there would be at least 9 (tossing in a bit of reductio ad absurdum for spice).

Imo, the roach comment was never meant to be taken seriously - because as you said, nothing in the comic supports breaking down "sides" by alignment. Otherwise we'd be left to conclude that Miko and Roy (among other unlikely pairings) are actually close allies.