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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    CaoimhinTheCape's Avatar

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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    So yeah, Apogee kept ninja'ing me so I was asking questions that he already answered.

    While I don't think Apogee needs to be as worries about being Strongmanned (if that's in the game) he's making a lot of good points. Leaving my vote where it is for the moment but I'll think about this.

    The problem with a Survivor Vigilante is that Apogee could turn on Town at any point and it's really up to which way he shoots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apogee1 View Post

    4) My vig shot might indicate it is from a survivor? Actually yeah it should right! Just checked the recruitment thread and it will bet!!!

    Too bad Xihirli got docced or I got RB'ed or whatever

    I'm definitely going to get accused of this being convient

    Sigh

    I don't suppose anyone tracked me?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah you actually lose quite a bit

    Don't you get more intel flipping confirmed wolf Xihirli

    @everyone Can anyone account for Xihirli's protection or a roleblock of Apogee?

    If Xihirli flips a certain faction, it's still possible you're another faction that's against town. If you flip Survivor, we know Xi discarded the Survivor card but we can't confirm a faction.

    I don't see what Xi gets by lying about this though. As soon as Apogee flips survivor we lynch Xi for being anti-town.

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cap View Post
    But less than losing another town, that's for sure, and by lynching you there's no risk of making such mistake.


    Not if she flips town.
    But if I am survivor

    I'm confirmed not an actual bad faction

    So voting me off is directly anti-town

    And you seem to be treating me as the survivor

    You Xihirli's buddy?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post

    @everyone Can anyone account for Xihirli's protection or a roleblock of Apogee?

    If Xihirli flips a certain faction, it's still possible you're another faction that's against town. If you flip Survivor, we know Xi discarded the Survivor card but we can't confirm a faction.

    I don't see what Xi gets by lying about this though. As soon as Apogee flips survivor we lynch Xi for being anti-town.
    Well if Xihirli flips before I do

    I'll have gotten a vig shot off and that confirms me as survivor

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also guys wouldn't it be great to have beaten to death with a tactical flashlight as one of the kill notifications tomorrow

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Apogee1 View Post
    But if I am survivor

    I'm confirmed not an actual bad faction

    So voting me off is directly anti-town

    And you seem to be treating me as the survivor

    You Xihirli's buddy?
    Let's be clear: you're confirmed nothing at the moment, it's just your word vs Xihirli's. And the underlined part is a straight-up exaggeration: voting you off could potentially help us get rid of a baddie (if you're not a Survivor) and worse case scenario we don't lose a town; so no, voting you off is one of the best possible courses of action for town at the moment.

    And no, I'm not treating you as a Survivor: I'm treating you as someone who's surely not town.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Quote Originally Posted by Apogee1 View Post
    Well if Xihirli flips before I do

    I'll have gotten a vig shot off and that confirms me as survivor
    Potentially killing a town in the process.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    I realize I'm a little biased, so I wanna collect opinions: what are people's thoughts on the person who sees "apogee and xihirli are calling each other liars", and decides that instead of testing either of them, they decide to vote me instead?


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  5. - Top - End - #125
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    I realize I'm a little biased, so I wanna collect opinions: what are people's thoughts on the person who sees "apogee and xihirli are calling each other liars", and decides that instead of testing either of them, they decide to vote me instead?
    Suspicious at the moment: I hope they'll better clarify their position (and answer my question).

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    I realize I'm a little biased, so I wanna collect opinions: what are people's thoughts on the person who sees "apogee and xihirli are calling each other liars", and decides that instead of testing either of them, they decide to vote me instead?
    That if Apogee1 is not Survivor nor Town Zelphas is getting voted first thing in the morning.

    Or getting killed I suppose- their reasoning for not voting Apogee1 looks weird enough that it wouldn't be strange if they get killed by whatever faction isn't Apogee's (assuming A1 flips non-town/non-survivor).

    Or. They just haven't been online since the debate started.

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    I realize I'm a little biased, so I wanna collect opinions: what are people's thoughts on the person who sees "apogee and xihirli are calling each other liars", and decides that instead of testing either of them, they decide to vote me instead?
    Can join the growing list of people who should be able to get got

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hey so if we vote of Xihirli who is literally always a (wolf/mafia/alien/sk) here (lock from my pov and should almost lock from all of yours) I can confirm myself survivor tonight

    That's a confirmed not baddie you'd be getting

    just saying it's probably worth something here

    Plus I'd blast someone we thought was pretty wolfy

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    I definitely can see Xihirli lying, but if she is, she dies D3.
    If she is serial killer, why didn't someone die to her N1? I can kinda see her not killing someone N1 to deflect belief her role is active, but... seems unlikely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apogee1 View Post
    If I live today I'm vigging Jeen
    So, if you live today, I'm voiding you
    On the other hand, if you die today and flip Survivor Vig, I'll void Xihirli since that strongly implies she is the Serial Killer.
    Either way, the Town should be safe from a townie getting NKed tonight from you/Xi.

    Xi, want to claim a power that gives a reason for me not to void you? Ideally, without lying.

  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    It occurs to me that if we kill one, and they're untrustworthy, that doesn't mean the other is trustworthy. A death can only prove tye killed was trustworthy and that the unkilled wasn't, it doesn't work the other way around. Let's give examples:

    If we kill Apogee, and they flip Survivor, obviously Xihirli was lying. We killed the trustworthy, leaving the untrustworthy alive.

    If we kill Xihirli, and she flips town, then while we don't know 100% that Apogee was lying, it'd be really weird for Xihirli to claim to have lied about drawing Survivor to call out somebody she doesn't know for sure was lying. We killed the trustworthy, leaving the untrustworthy alive.

    If we kill Apogee, and they don't flip Survivor or town, then yeah they were untrustworthy, but that doesn't prove Xihirli is town. Even if she's telling the truth that Survivor wasn't kept or publicly discarded, we won't know for sure until game ends. Xihirli could be a lying wolf trying to get us to waste a lynch on the Survivor, only for it to turn out that Apogee was also lying about being Survivor and is actually mafia.

    Same scenario if we lynch Xihirli and she's scumrole. Could be they're both scum on different teams.

    All we know for sure is that they can't both be telling the truth.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I definitely can see Xihirli lying, but if she is, she dies D3.
    If she is serial killer, why didn't someone die to her N1? I can kinda see her not killing someone N1 to deflect belief her role is active, but... seems unlikely.



    So, if you live today, I'm voiding you
    On the other hand, if you die today and flip Survivor Vig, I'll void Xihirli since that strongly implies she is the Serial Killer.
    Either way, the Town should be safe from a townie getting NKed tonight from you/Xi.

    Xi, want to claim a power that gives a reason for me not to void you? Ideally, without lying.
    Can't void both of us.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
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  10. - Top - End - #130
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    I realize I'm a little biased, so I wanna collect opinions: what are people's thoughts on the person who sees "apogee and xihirli are calling each other liars", and decides that instead of testing either of them, they decide to vote me instead?
    Honestly, I think you're either an Innocent Child wanting to shunt the lynch to the 2nd-place person last minute. Or you're a baddie who is hoping to look town by being willing to be sacrificed.

    Your death doesn't look likely to yield info right now. If you died and flipped Town, that wouldn't tell us anything about Apogee and Xi and we'd have no more info than we already do (well, beyond that you were Town.) Really, only if you are Survivor or Serial Killer, would we get info.
    If you were the Survivor, I think you'd claim it now. Or maybe you still hope to soak a NK tonight, knowing both are lying. But, then, why wouldn't you want Xi or Apogee to die.
    If you were the Serial Killer... well, I could see you acting this way to look townish.

    So, really, I don't see any reason why AV-as-Town would want to die, since it doesn't yield info. Usually when you want to die as Town, it is helpful to the Town.
    Thus, inclined to think you're a baddie or neutral.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Can't void both of us.
    Yeah...
    If Apogee dies this Day, I void Xihirli this Night, and there's a Serial Killer/mafia kill, I guess we learn AV is the Serial Killer/mafia.

    OH---and I could see Cao as lying about his cards (if he's werewolf) and AV being a solo mafia. Her acting this way as a solo in a faction (a kinda-destined-to-lose situation) sorta makes sense.

  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Here's hoping I die today so you can all see how hard JeenLeen is trying to project his own situation onto me.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
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  12. - Top - End - #132
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    mad Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    The more I think about it the less sense it makes for Xihirli to be lying. It would only make sense if she expects to win tonight.

    I vote Apogee1

  13. - Top - End - #133
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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Come on Apogee, you're embarassing yourself now. Calling everyone who's suspicious of you a wolf, jumping around all the hoops. You're not doing yourself any favors.

    Xi, want to claim a power that gives a reason for me not to void you? Ideally, without lying.
    Nah, I'm good. I'm okay with being voided to see if an SK kill goes off.
    Last edited by Xihirli; 2020-11-10 at 02:52 PM.
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  14. - Top - End - #134
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    If Apogee dies this Day, I void Xihirli this Night, and there's a Serial Killer/mafia kill, I guess we learn AV is the Serial Killer/mafia.

    OH---and I could see Cao as lying about his cards (if he's werewolf) and AV being a solo mafia. Her acting this way as a solo in a faction (a kinda-destined-to-lose situation) sorta makes sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Here's hoping I die today so you can all see how hard JeenLeen is trying to project his own situation onto me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    Nah, I'm good. I'm okay with being voided to see if an SK kill goes off.
    AV, are you proposing that I'm the solo mafioso? Not sure what you think I'm projecting... except that I guess I'm projecting how I'd act in the various scenarios I'm imaging you might be in.

    And to clarify on my line of actions: I meant if Apogee dies and flips Survivor Vigilante, then I'll void Xihirli.
    At least unless someone gives some other excuse for Xi surviving a NK.

    Some semi-random speculation

    If Apogee flips Alien, more thinking Zephas is Alien.
    If Apogee flips Survivor Vig, pretty sure Xihirli is a baddie.
    If Apogee flips Serial Killer, pretty sure Xihirli is trustworthy.
    If AV (or anybody, really) flips Mafia, kinda reckon Cao is lying about his cards and thus is probably a baddie.
    Pretty sure Xihirli and The Outsider are not Aliens (based on Elenna's post near end of D1.)

  15. - Top - End - #135
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Okay, this blew up. To reply to the direct question to me:

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cap View Post
    So you have doubts about Xihirli's accusations, correct?
    I don't currently have any evidence to say that she's telling the truth or that she's lying, so I didn't want to weigh in. I realize after all the other responses that I'm playing this way too cautiously, which I'll need to work on.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    That's all reasonable. And just let me reassure you that the metagame can feel a bit overwhelming, but it's something you can learn after a couple games. At least, that's how I felt as a new player in my first games.

    But to explain a couple metagame points, and sorta state you still look Alien-y from this. Or like someone trying to protect Apogee while looking like it's not really trying to protect him.
    • it is reasonable and good to have competing wagons in order to gain more intel. So a vote on AV is a good thing in a sense.
    • But this does look like you making an attempt at protecting Apogee, which goes with the idea of you both being wolves


    I don't want to risk last-minute vote switches somehow saving Apogee, so Apogee1. (I know it's not last-minute, but i likely won't be online tomorrow much.)

    - - - Updated - - -

    An idea to throw out there: if Apogee flips Alien, we have good reason to suspect Zephas as Alien (maybe last Alien) as well. But would it be better to leave Zephas alive (e.g., not lynch) and hope one of the other baddie factions take him out, while we focus on the finding the ones who actually have a Night Kill?
    A lone Alien seems pretty harmless, at least until late game.

    But I've never played a game with aliens before, so I might be missing something.
    Thanks for the clarifications, JeenLeen; that all makes some sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    I realize I'm a little biased, so I wanna collect opinions: what are people's thoughts on the person who sees "apogee and xihirli are calling each other liars", and decides that instead of testing either of them, they decide to vote me instead?
    That's a good point; I didn't want to trust either of them, so I was trying to stay out of the conflict. That's probably a futile effort, given the resulting messages.

    At this point, it's unlikely that I'm going to escape any sort of suspicion this round; if I leave my vote on AV, it looks odd, but if I switch to either Xihirli or Apogee1 I ally myself with their arguments (And therefore raise suspicion on myself if they are proven wrong). Thinking it over, I think it may be better to choose a side (for this round, at least).

    Therefore, I'm swapping my vote to Apogee1. The arguments against Apogee seem stronger than those against Xihirli, though once again I may be misreading the situation.
    Last edited by Zelphas; 2020-11-10 at 05:20 PM.
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  16. - Top - End - #136
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    If Apogee flips Serial Killer, pretty sure Xihirli is trustworthy.
    Could you explain your reasoning behind this?

  17. - Top - End - #137
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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Not a he, Zelphas.
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  18. - Top - End - #138
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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cap View Post
    Could you explain your reasoning behind this?
    I started to write an explanation and realized it's not as strong a thought as I initially thought it was.
    But basically:
    1) if Apogee is not-Town/Survivor
    2) and Apogee honestly did try to kill Xihirli N1 (I see no reason for him to lie about that, unless he and Xi are both werewolves)
    3) and Xihirli didn't die (which obviously is what happened)
    4) and Apogee was not voided (NO REAL PROOF FOR THIS, but nobody has said they voided him, while discussion would give a good reason to state that)

    That means Xihirli somehow survived a NK.
    So that means Xihirli was baned, Xihirli is the Survivor, or Xihirli is the Serial Killer.
    If Apogee flips Serial Killer, that rules out Xi being serial killer.
    Meaning Xi is the real Survivor (and lying to be Town for.... some reason, maybe to soak NKs, but not lying about her cards), or a baner was in play in a lucky way. I guess the latter doesn't show Xi as trustworthy since any faction can be/have a baner, though--hence my realizing my conclusion wasn't as solid as I thought.

    I'm hoping by D3 someone will speak up if they voided Apogee, since it might help determine who to lynch. But I see not wanting to admit your power this Day or the upcoming Night, in order to avoid drawing a NK tonight.

  19. - Top - End - #139
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Meaning Xi is the real Survivor (and lying to be Town for.... some reason, maybe to soak NKs, but not lying about her cards), or a baner was in play in a lucky way. I guess the latter doesn't show Xi as trustworthy since any faction can be/have a baner, though--hence my realizing my conclusion wasn't as solid as I thought.
    We don't even need to bring up luck: if she's not-town, she could have a particularly useful power for her faction, something that could justify the protection from a potential allied baner.
    Last edited by Captain Cap; 2020-11-10 at 04:45 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #140
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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    I don't think there's any sense to thinking of me as anything but a loyal member of Town, always and forever. So let's abandon these avenues of thought.
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  21. - Top - End - #141
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    Not a he, Zelphas.
    Sorry, not paying enough attention; the proper pronouns should be there now, but please let me know if I'm still off.
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  22. - Top - End - #142
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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    Come on Apogee, you're embarassing yourself now. Calling everyone who's suspicious of you a wolf, jumping around all the hoops. You're not doing yourself any favors.


    Nah, I'm good. I'm okay with being voided to see if an SK kill goes off.
    If everyone is calling me a wolf this loses a lot of it's value just saying

    - - - Updated - - -

    what I've been saying all day

    is that literally regardless of what you think I flip as or what I actually flip as (the logic doesn't change if it's survivor, alien, mafia, wolf, sk, or town)

    Xihirli is claiming to have discarded survivor

    which means she isn't town

    because I, and the rest of you should agree, Xihirli is not picking town over survivor

    implying xihirli is not a member of the town

  23. - Top - End - #143
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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    I know this is dangerous but I can't tell all I want to without claiming. My cards were: Town JOAT (didn't want to balance a bunch of 1-off powers), Alien Investigate, and Town Tracking. It was honestly a toss-up between investigate and tracking, but I went Town Investigate and discarded Town JOAT.

    The reason I wanted to claim is I investigated Apogee1 last night and can confirm they are Serial Killer.

    I haven't been active today because work called and told me last night that I have been identified as coming into contact with someone who tested positive for COVID. I have been trying to scramble and figure out testing and how to isolate from spouse and kid. I likely won't be available much until closer to the end of this day phase, but had to share.

    Hopefully someone else town will save me tonight.

    Vote Apogee1

  24. - Top - End - #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    I know this is dangerous but I can't tell all I want to without claiming. My cards were: Town JOAT (didn't want to balance a bunch of 1-off powers), Alien Investigate, and Town Tracking. It was honestly a toss-up between investigate and tracking, but I went Town Investigate and discarded Town JOAT.

    The reason I wanted to claim is I investigated Apogee1 last night and can confirm they are Serial Killer.

    I haven't been active today because work called and told me last night that I have been identified as coming into contact with someone who tested positive for COVID. I have been trying to scramble and figure out testing and how to isolate from spouse and kid. I likely won't be available much until closer to the end of this day phase, but had to share.

    Hopefully someone else town will save me tonight.

    Vote Apogee1
    Wishing you the best regarding you, your family, and covid. Hope everything goes as well as it can.

    I don't suppose y'all would consider leaving me alive for a bit? I'd shoot the people you wanted and the werewolves are about one night cycle and another day from winning this game

  25. - Top - End - #145
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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Wow, I sure do pick the best times to tune out. Jesus H Christ.

    Alright, thoughts.

    -I'm willing to believe RA's claim for the moment. That being said, I was somewhat hoping that Apogee would flip WW/Mafia/Alien. Having them be the SK makes the D1 vote... confusing.

    - Regardless of how Apogee flips, we might need to lynch Xihirli tomorrow. As much as Apogee was flailing around and calling everyone who voted them sus, they have a point. Xihirli is probably not going to pick Town over survivor. (At least from what little I've seen thus far.)

    -I'm glad some of the quiet people have spoken up more. Zelphas has moved up a step in trustworthiness for me by virtue of reasonable explanations for their actions. Still might be evil, but at this point I'm more sus of Jeen than I am of them.

    -And of course, the biggest question (in my mind): How exactly did Xihirli live through an attempted stabbing?
    I can see it from the outside.
    And I know you're on the inside... lookin' out.


  26. - Top - End - #146
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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Apogee1

    I've already claimed enough tbh
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2020-11-10 at 07:24 PM.


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  27. - Top - End - #147
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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Welp, that makes things a bit simpler. What exactly makes you think that the Werewolves have such a huge advantage?
    I can see it from the outside.
    And I know you're on the inside... lookin' out.


  28. - Top - End - #148
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Dec 2019
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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    - Regardless of how Apogee flips, we might need to lynch Xihirli tomorrow. As much as Apogee was flailing around and calling everyone who voted them sus, they have a point. Xihirli is probably not going to pick Town over survivor. (At least from what little I've seen thus far.)

    -And of course, the biggest question (in my mind): How exactly did Xihirli live through an attempted stabbing?
    Oh well either Xihirli is lying about having discarded survivor, in which case lol

    or like I've been saying all day she's a wolf

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    Welp, that makes things a bit simpler. What exactly makes you think that the Werewolves have such a huge advantage?
    It's a guess

    Based on the numbers from last time and three mafia no werewolf cards discarded

    And like, gut feels there is a large team comfortable with the game

  29. - Top - End - #149
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Xihirli's Avatar

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    Jan 2015
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    Behind you. RIGHT NOW.
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    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Apogee1 View Post
    Xihirli is not picking town over survivor
    Okay, I'm gonna stop letting you get away with this slander.

    Survivor: The survivor wins if they last to the end of the day
    I assume that means game? In either case:
    Boring.
    Boring.
    I would NEVER choose survivor. Over anything else on that list.
    And I will not stand for being slandered in this means.

    I am chaotic. And I don't define that on your terms.
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  30. - Top - End - #150
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AvatarVecna's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2014

    Default Re: Crazier Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    Welp, that makes things a bit simpler. What exactly makes you think that the Werewolves have such a huge advantage?
    Aint no werewolves in the discard pile or the dead players pile.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
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