Wall of water

[zinycor]

So as a Triton I just got this spell, and I have never casted it before, so, what are the uses for it? What fun things can I do with it?

[Deathtongue]

So as a Triton I just got this spell, and I have never casted it before, so, what are the uses for it? What fun things can I do with it?

You can make bridges and dams with it if you have a source of cold damage.

[Segev]

Presumably it exerts pressure on water and can make a dam by itself.

You can theoretically swim in it. Though at one foot thick, that might be tricky.

A log big enough to cling to could float you to the top for impromptu ascensions.

A grappled creature could have its head forces inside. Makes it hard to use verbal components, though drowning is not a combat-time event with how long breath can be held.

It could provide a facing for an illusion beyond it, of a swimming monster or of an aquatic environment.

[JackPhoenix]

Should propably stop harmful gasses from passing through, while still allowing movement.

Using it to provide protection from fire-using enemies is given.

[Danielqueue1]

Makes great cover for splitting up an encounter. Enemy engaging at range and in melee? Wall off the ranged attackers and deal with the melee opponents. Then either dismiss the wall or pop in and out of it to deal with ranged opponents.

[Thunderous Mojo]

Should propably stop harmful gasses from passing through, while still allowing movement.

Depending upon if there is a ceiling, and the height of the ceiling, this spell can be used to trap the mist form of a vampire.

Shape Water can be used impart a direction of current,("flow"),
to the water in the wall, which makes the wall "running water".

Casting this spell in the desert makes a mini oasis, for 10 minutes.
It is also a good way to give a huge creature a bath.

[Segev]

Keep in mind, too, that the dimensions given are maxima. You can make the cylinder with a smaller radius for some interesting uses, like lifting a raft.

[PattThe]

Keep in mind, too, that the dimensions given are maxima. You can make the cylinder with a smaller radius for some interesting uses, like lifting a raft.

I didn't think to use less space! That's brilliant.
>Gust of wind!
DM: They pass their save.
>Gust of water!
DM: ..there.. is no save?

[Segev]

I didn't think to use less space! That's brilliant.
>Gust of wind!
DM: They pass their save.
>Gust of water!
DM: ..there.. is no save?

Huh. This makes me wonder how shape water interacts with wall of water.

[PattThe]

Huh. This makes me wonder how shape water interacts with wall of water.

Whatever it does, unless you're dealing with a one-way passage that's 5by5 feet you're probably going to regret playing around with the 3rd level spell a few minutes after enjoying the experimentation.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Makes great cover for splitting up an encounter. Enemy engaging at range and in melee? Wall off the ranged attackers and deal with the melee opponents. Then either dismiss the wall or pop in and out of it to deal with ranged opponents.

Practically speaking, that's the only real use for it I could think of myself. Which is a pretty circumstantial situation, considering it's a 3rd level spell. And that Tritons also get Fog Cloud. Honestly, Wall of Water seems pretty underwhelming and underpowered for a 3rd level spell. Actually, it's underpowered for a 2nd level spell. It'd probably be top tier for a 1st level spell, right up there with spells of comparable use and power like Fog Cloud and Faerie Fire.

I'm playing a triton in an ongoing campaign, and I talked my DM into a small sidequest to allow me to swap it out for another, similarly themed 3rd level water spell, Tidal Wave. Definite upgrade.

As an aside...

Spoiler: Triton Racial Spells

Show

tritons are supposed to pretty much be an almost exclusively underwater race. The Volo's entry even has a section about it: "Strangers to the Surface: Given their isolation, most tritons have never been to the surface world. They struggle with the idea that they can’t easily move up and down out of water, and the changing of the seasons mystifies them. Tritons also find the variety of social institutions, kingdoms, and other customs bewildering. For all their proud culture, they remain innocent of the surface world."

So does anyone else think it's sort of weird that the racial spells for the triton, Fog Cloud, Gust of Wind, and Wall of Water, are all basically spells which either are mostly useless or wouldn't function at all underwater?

[PattThe]

Practically speaking, that's the only real use for it I could think of myself. Which is a pretty circumstantial situation, considering it's a 3rd level spell. And that Tritons also get Fog Cloud. Honestly, Wall of Water seems pretty underwhelming and underpowered for a 3rd level spell. Actually, it's underpowered for a 2nd level spell. It'd probably be top tier for a 1st level spell, right up there with spells of comparable use and power like Fog Cloud and Faerie Fire.

I'm playing a triton in an ongoing campaign, and I talked my DM into a small sidequest to allow me to swap it out for another, similarly themed 3rd level water spell, Tidal Wave. Definite upgrade.

As an aside...

Spoiler: Triton Racial Spells

Show

tritons are supposed to pretty much be an almost exclusively underwater race. The Volo's entry even has a section about it: "Strangers to the Surface: Given their isolation, most tritons have never been to the surface world. They struggle with the idea that they can’t easily move up and down out of water, and the changing of the seasons mystifies them. Tritons also find the variety of social institutions, kingdoms, and other customs bewildering. For all their proud culture, they remain innocent of the surface world."

So does anyone else think it's sort of weird that the racial spells for the triton, Fog Cloud, Gust of Wind, and Wall of Water, are all basically spells which either are mostly useless or wouldn't function at all underwater?

Wow that's, uh..
that's a lot of damage on a racial spell.

[Segev]

Whatever it does, unless you're dealing with a one-way passage that's 5by5 feet you're probably going to regret playing around with the 3rd level spell a few minutes after enjoying the experimentation.

Why? I am not sure what you're getting at, here.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Wow that's, uh..
that's a lot of damage on a racial spell.

I suppose it is, for a racial spell. Since none of the others do damage.

But while 4d8 is impressive at 5th level, it wasn't so great at later levels. Since this didn't happen until 9th level, it wasn't really that big of a deal.

In retrospect, Water Breathing would have been another cool (better?) choice, also 3rd level, and equally thematic. That way a triton could invite outsiders down to their underwater domain, or at least rescue drowning surface dwellers.

Honestly, it was just that Wall of Water is a pretty D-list spell, and makes no sense for an almost-exclusively underwater race to have. If it could at least make a dome, that'd be useful against fire-breathing dragon and fireballs as a legitimate defense. But as written, it's pretty worthless for the slot level.

[MrCharlie]

Technically, Fog Cloud and Gust of Wind both work underwater. It's just a question of how they work.

We can say gust of wind works for the same reason lightning bolt doesn't dive bomb the nearest ground.

Fog cloud, meanwhile, appears to be incomprehensible if we assume that the fog is water droplets-but fog can also be ice and have the same effect. You can also mimic it with other suspended matter, but the spell is very specific.

Wall of water does not work underwater-or rather it technically does, but I struggle to imagine what it does.

Anyway, the Triton racial spells aren't necessarily abilities that typical tritons have though, just those that are adventurers. Hence, there is selection bias in play.

In general its a fine spell if you get it for free, but I'd personally only learn it as a class if it was 2nd level. It's just not worth a 3rd level slot-but 2nd level spells are typically do misc. things like wall of water anyway.

[Segev]

I would presume that, at the very least, a wall of water under water would block currents, much as it would prevent water from flowing beyond it if put up as, say, a dam in a river.

AS to why I say it would do that? It's free-standing water. It magically cannot be pushed out of its space by gravity or the like, and we've no evidence to suggest using, say, a tower shield can push gobs of it out of the wall. So it isn't moving except "aside" to let things through, and thus non-magical water would not really be able to push it "aside," because it's still water that's in its way. Maybe water with sufficient velocity could force through, but slow-flowing water would just pile against it the way it would pile against other water beneath it.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Technically, Fog Cloud and Gust of Wind both work underwater. It's just a question of how they work.

We can say gust of wind works for the same reason lightning bolt doesn't dive bomb the nearest ground.

Fog cloud, meanwhile, appears to be incomprehensible if we assume that the fog is water droplets-but fog can also be ice and have the same effect. You can also mimic it with other suspended matter, but the spell is very specific.

Wall of water does not work underwater-or rather it technically does, but I struggle to imagine what it does.

Anyway, the Triton racial spells aren't necessarily abilities that typical tritons have though, just those that are adventurers. Hence, there is selection bias in play.

In general its a fine spell if you get it for free, but I'd personally only learn it as a class if it was 2nd level. It's just not worth a 3rd level slot-but 2nd level spells are typically do misc. things like wall of water anyway.

I would presume that, at the very least, a wall of water under water would block currents, much as it would prevent water from flowing beyond it if put up as, say, a dam in a river.

AS to why I say it would do that? It's free-standing water. It magically cannot be pushed out of its space by gravity or the like, and we've no evidence to suggest using, say, a tower shield can push gobs of it out of the wall. So it isn't moving except "aside" to let things through, and thus non-magical water would not really be able to push it "aside," because it's still water that's in its way. Maybe water with sufficient velocity could force through, but slow-flowing water would just pile against it the way it would pile against other water beneath it.

Of course, you're both right.

Beneath the waves, Wall of Water could still be a strong current of water which creates a 1' thick area of difficult terrain, gives disadvantage to ranged weapon attacks (which most already get anyway) and fire damage effects get halved (which happens underwater even without the spell). So...it's there, I guess. But largely pointless.

Fog Cloud and Gust of Wind can be interpreted by a kind, reasonable DM to still have same effects (i.e. "Bubble Cloud" or "Ink Cloud", and I'm sure you could interpret the Gust of Wind as a Gust of Water with the same mechanical impact).

It's just that they clearly picked the racial spells for tritons with the idea that they were a "race from the sea", and gave them spell powers which seemed thematic for a race associated with the ocean and water. But the lore is that they're a true underwater race, living and operating and fighting in the deepest parts of the ocean. It's just like how they originally neglected to give them darkvision. They're pretty decent as a ocean-originating race which adventures on dry land with the occasional dips into water. But they're sort of dysfunctional in their actual home environment.

It bugs me.

Sort of like having a racial spell which is supposedly a 3rd level spell which is only competitive with (not demonstrably better than) the 1st level racial spell you get, Fog Cloud. They're both basically useable for the same kind of situations, with some slight differences between them which might make either one the better spell for the specific situation. That bugs me.

If you view the racial spells as a freebie with a no-slot casting 1/day, then maybe it doesn't bother you. If you view it as a level-deficient tool which requires an action to cast and eats your concentration for surprisingly little return for a 3rd level spell (like I do), then maybe it bugs you too.

[MrCharlie]

Of course, you're both right.

Beneath the waves, Wall of Water could still be a strong current of water which creates a 1' thick area of difficult terrain, gives disadvantage to ranged weapon attacks (which most already get anyway) and fire damage effects get halved (which happens underwater even without the spell). So...it's there, I guess. But largely pointless.

Fog Cloud and Gust of Wind can be interpreted by a kind, reasonable DM to still have same effects (i.e. "Bubble Cloud" or "Ink Cloud", and I'm sure you could interpret the Gust of Wind as a Gust of Water with the same mechanical impact).

It's just that they clearly picked the racial spells for tritons with the idea that they were a "race from the sea", and gave them spell powers which seemed thematic for a race associated with the ocean and water. But the lore is that they're a true underwater race, living and operating and fighting in the deepest parts of the ocean. It's just like how they originally neglected to give them darkvision. They're pretty decent as a ocean-originating race which adventures on dry land with the occasional dips into water. But they're sort of dysfunctional in their actual home environment.

It bugs me.

Sort of like having a racial spell which is supposedly a 3rd level spell which is only competitive with (not demonstrably better than) the 1st level racial spell you get, Fog Cloud. They're both basically useable for the same kind of situations, with some slight differences between them which might make either one the better spell for the specific situation. That bugs me.

If you view the racial spells as a freebie with a no-slot casting 1/day, then maybe it doesn't bother you. If you view it as a level-deficient tool which requires an action to cast and eats your concentration for surprisingly little return for a 3rd level spell (like I do), then maybe it bugs you too.

Given that the triton have a pretty ideal array and fine racial features otherwise, I see the spells are a pure ribbon. Most racial spells are, besides the races they get stuff like darkness or misty step, but even then I think gust of wind is actually a very good spell. Lore wise, I think it's fine because adventurers aren't typical tritons, and I'm okay with their spells representing atypical tritons bringing their favored elements to an unfavored realm, instead of being useful in their natural environment.

Also, I don't know why gust of wind wouldn't just work to create, well, a gust of wind underwater. The reason fog cloud is illogical and wall of water doesn't really do much is because they make water...underwater. Which is either just free-standing water, or particles of water vapor condensing into water which proceeds to scatter light obscuring something...without interacting with the surrounding water.

Basically, fog cloud and wall of water violate physics completely by making a fluid immiscible in itself, which takes thermodynamics out back and shoots it like a dog. Which is why I prefer to say that fog cloud, at least, is ice fog when cast underwater, because that interacts with reality in a nicer way and would still obscure things. Gust of Wind, meanwhile, could absolutely exist-while buoyancy would cause the air to interact oddly, you could absolutely still propel things with a jet of air underwater.

Of course, the spells simply work because the rules say they do, and wall of water barely does anything underwater anyway, but these spells require some serious shenanigan's to work underwater. Of course spells like reverse gravity are probably just flatly impossible, let alone teleport, but at those spells directly do something that is supposed to be 100% magical-fog cloud just makes fog that is supposed to obscure things because it is fog. Part of the tribulations inherent with trying to make DnD make sense in the real world.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Given that the triton have a pretty ideal array and fine racial features otherwise, I see the spells are a pure ribbon.

Pre-Tasha's, I think this argument held more water (sorry). It was one of very few ways to make three 15s into three 16s with point buy. But now that's possible with any old race, isn't it? Which makes the other racial abilities more vital to the optimizer in me.

But, yeah. I'm probably unreasonably annoyed about the general lameness of Wall of Water, since it was only a racial ability. But still, I felt zero guilt about questing to shed it for a better option since my DM was on board. It just somehow got under my skin.

[Pondincherry]

RAW Wall of Water works underwater, but only on the sea floor, since it says, "You create a wall of water on the ground..." Which makes it even stranger for a Triton to have. The wall is only 10 feet high, so this is only useful against something that can survive underwater, make ranged attacks, and can't swim.