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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    DruidGuy

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    Default College of blade dancing - Homebrew share

    I have edited my post, wanted to share the link of an image from my homebrew I did work on. The build is different from what can be read here. I am happy about the result. I hope you enjoy it.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VmUsfY4F4WuBpYkpMdNCwS34s0vz5jBP/view?usp=drivesdk

    Hello, here is a kinda monk/martial show type on a bard class(please do not compare to college of sword which is more of a fighter dueller on a bard class, I know, they both use swords) I would like to point out at the level 14 feature, at level 14, you deal with legendary saving throws all the time, don't call it broken. Autofail on an initial saving throw is still turned into a successful saving with a legendary saving throw. By level 14 it will be pretty common.
    Now I want to point out to level 3 strike first, it may look strong, but I assure you, at 5 feet range you will wish you would have cutting words a lot for it's range or for reducing the mass damage from a fireball

    College of blade dancing
    Blade dancers are artist that have learned to make one with a sword while dancing and the result is that they are able to channel their spells through their swords in a way that pierce their enemies defense. Their art is both beautiful and deadly. They can be seen entertaining crowds of people, blade dancing for their Gods, selling their skills or simply helping others with their protective support. Sword dancers have embrased their swords with their inner inspiration and their prowess will mistifiate both crowds and foes.

    Bonus proficiencies:
    Weapons: scimitars

    Bonus cantrip:
    You gain the dancing lights cantrip

    Partner in show:
    Starting at 3rd level, you can control the dancing lights to look like a medium dancing figure. When you activate the bonus action from the spell, you can also control it in a way that it is blade dancing against you.

    Blade dancing:
    Also, at 3rd level, you learn to dance as one with swords. You can choose to spend 5 feet of your movement to begin your sword dancing. Your sword dancing has no duration and you can stop it at any moment.

    Requirements:
    Wearing no armor and no shield.
    Your Speed must not be 0.
    Must not be dashing or hiding, else the dance stop.
    Must wield at least 1 sword and you must have proficiency with any sword you wield.

    While blade dancing
    Your movement speed is reduced by 5 feet.
    One handed swords you wield have the finesse property.
    Your AC can equals 10 + Dexterity Modifer + Charisma Modifier
    You can use your swords as your bardic spell focus
    You got 3 different use of bardic inspiration

    Evasion Form: When an attack roll is higher than your AC, you can chose to contest a (Dexterity) Performance check against it instead. Roll a bardic inpiration and add the result on your performance check.

    Strike first : You can use your reaction to make an attack of opportunity with a sword when an ennemy in your reach is making an attack roll on someone other than you. Roll a bardic inspiration die and substract the result from the attacker's roll.

    Delivering blade: You know a secret technique that you can unleash unto your blade through your dance and inner inspiration. As a bonus action, you can use a bardic inspiration and channel your inner magic into a blade. Until the end of your turn, as an action, you can cast and deliver a bard spell with a sword attack as long as the casting time and material components requirement is met. You do not have to provide the somatic nor the verbal components. If you hit the creature, the spell is delivered and if there is an initial saving throw it is made with disadvantage. If the spell could have more than one target it can only have one target and if the target is supposed to be a location for an area of effect, it only affect the struck creature's space, no matter its size. On a miss, the spell is wasted.

    Sword dancer's reflex
    Starting at the 6th level, whenever a creature that you can see makes an attack at you, you can use your reaction to draw one sword and begin your blade dance. Also, you can instead choose to gain advantage when you make a dexterity saving throw or when your are contesting a dexterity acrobatic check.

    Perfect form
    Beggining at the 14th level, you are becoming quite a formidable blade dancer and mastered your blade dance form. When you make a sword attack while blade dancing, you can choose to make a (Dexterity) Performance check and use the result as your attack roll.
    As with any ability check, it cannot critical fail or hit. Any initial saving throw resulting from that that hit is automaticly failed. You can only use this feature 3 times per long rest.
    Last edited by Hitakoh; 2020-11-12 at 09:33 PM. Reason: I want to add a link

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    JNAProductions's Avatar

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    Default Re: College of blade dancing - Homebrew share

    Perfect Form would be a big deal, if there was anything that forced saves or you got a bunch of attacks.

    Overall... Feels very boring. Probably a bit underpowered, and I don't see any reason to play it. It's like Swords Bard... But not as good or fun.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: College of blade dancing - Homebrew share

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Perfect Form would be a big deal, if there was anything that forced saves or you got a bunch of attacks.

    Overall... Feels very boring. Probably a bit underpowered, and I don't see any reason to play it. It's like Swords Bard... But not as good or fun.
    Wow thank you you are the first one to recognize I made it underpowered on purpose. I cannot believe some people think some of the feats are busted and that they don"t realise that overall college of lore is still superior.

    However I would like to point you out that perhaps you did miss out that you cannot counter delivering blade and that you can apply expertise to evasion form

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    Default Re: College of blade dancing - Homebrew share

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitakoh View Post
    Wow thank you you are the first one to recognize I made it underpowered on purpose. I cannot believe some people think some of the feats are busted and that they don"t realise that overall college of lore is still superior.

    However I would like to point you out that perhaps you did miss out that you cannot counter delivering blade and that you can apply expertise to evasion form
    Ah. Yeah, that feature needs to be changed-the ability to just deny an opponent a save when you can easily be rolling 1d20+13 (at 14th level) is too much.

    But the ability to crank your AC real high against a single attack by using Bardic Inspiration isn't a big deal.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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  5. - Top - End - #5
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: College of blade dancing - Homebrew share

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitakoh View Post
    Wow thank you you are the first one to recognize I made it underpowered on purpose. I cannot believe some people think some of the feats are busted and that they don"t realise that overall college of lore is still superior.

    However I would like to point you out that perhaps you did miss out that you cannot counter delivering blade and that you can apply expertise to evasion form
    To be honest I was thinking of letting it once per short rest and call it fine. At level 14 if you use it on a creature without legendary saving throw it is bot a boss and if you use it on a boss he's likely to use a legendary save.

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    Default Re: College of blade dancing - Homebrew share

    Some rewording:

    College of Blade Dancing
    Blade Dancers are artists who have learned to become one with a sword while dancing. As a the result is that they are able to channel their spells through their swords in a way that pierce their enemies defenses. Their art is both beautiful and deadly. They can be seen entertaining crowds of people, blade dancing for their Gods, selling their skills or simply helping others with their protective support.

    Performance Training:
    When you join the College of Blade Dancing at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with scimitars.

    Partner in Show:
    Starting at 3rd level, you learn the dancing lights cantrip. When you use the cantrip, as a bonus action you can control the dancing lights and make it blade dance against you.

    Blade Dancing:
    This is really awkwardly worded and I'm having problems fixing it.

    The natural language of 5e requires that abilities have a certain amount of elegance. Your rules are really difficult to express without the point-form/list format you are using, or long and twisted paragraphs.

    As part of that natural language requirement, you probably need to change some of the mechanics and remove some exceptions and corner cases somehow.

    Evasion Form: When an attack roll is higher than your AC, you can chose to contest a (Dexterity) Performance check against it instead. Roll a bardic inpiration and add the result on your performance check.
    Does this cost a use of bardic inspiration? If not, this is "you are nearly impossible to hit"; at level 13 20 dex + expertise(performance) + 1d10 bardic inspiration is 1d20+15+1d10 is average 31 AC (SD 7, 95% confidence interval 17 to 45).

    If you have (say) enhance ability (dex) up, the SD shrinks and the average goes up to like 34 or 35.

    So I'll assume you expend a use of bardic inspiration to use this? Now the only problem is that it is a fussier version of the "add bardic inspiration to your AC" features other subclasses get.

    Strike first: You can use your reaction to make an attack of opportunity with a sword when an enemy in your reach is making an attack roll on someone other than you. Roll a bardic inspiration die and subtract the result from the attacker's roll.
    This duplicates a feat, which is something you should avoid I think.

    Burning a use of inspiration for an attack is a strong move. On par with Whispers's inspiration-smite. A 3 level Bard dip on a Hexadinlock would be tempting for this.
    Delivering blade: You know a secret technique that you can unleash unto your blade through your dance and inner inspiration. As a bonus action, you can use a bardic inspiration and channel your inner magic into a blade. Until the end of your turn, as an action, you can cast and deliver a bard spell with a sword attack as long as the casting time and material components requirement is met. You do not have to provide the somatic nor the verbal components. If you hit the creature, the spell is delivered and if there is an initial saving throw it is made with disadvantage. If the spell could have more than one target it can only have one target and if the target is supposed to be a location for an area of effect, it only affect the struck creature's space, no matter its size. On a miss, the spell is wasted.
    Better just to restrict what spells can be used. The ability to cast a single target fireball is cute, but not worth this many words and exceptions.

    The core idea here is burn a bardic inspiration to deliver a spell using a sword, right?

    "As an action, you can expend a use of bardic inspiration to cast a spell that targets only one creature within reach of your sword. The melee attack roll replaces any attack rolls the spell would make on your turn. If your melee attack roll hits, the first saving throw the creature makes against the spell has a penalty equal to your bardic inspiration die roll. If your attack misses, the spell fails."

    "targets only one creature" means you can use this with a barrage of scorching rays, but not with a fireball.

    I replaced disadvantage with "subtract bardic inspiration die", because otherwise this doesn't use the die.

    Sword dancer's reflex
    Starting at the 6th level, whenever a creature that you can see makes an attack at you, you can use your reaction to draw one sword and begin your blade dance. Also, you can instead choose to gain advantage when you make a dexterity saving throw or when your are contesting a dexterity acrobatic check.
    A problem is that your "blade dance" is increasingly "just always on". In fact, if you are walking slower than 25' per round and can have your sword out, there is almost no reason not to be in the blade dance all the time.

    This ability (turn it on as a reaction) is a mixture of useless (why aren't you already in the form?) and doubling down on always being in it.

    You probably need to strip out some of the benefits of blade dance form from the form itself (like, AC), and make some of the others a real decision.

    The "special form you are always in" is mechanical cruft.
    Perfect form
    Beginning at the 14th level, you are becoming quite a formidable blade dancer and mastered your blade dance form. When you make a sword attack while blade dancing, you can choose to make a (Dexterity) Performance check and use the result as your attack roll.
    As with any ability check, it cannot critical fail or hit. Any initial saving throw resulting from that that hit is automaticly failed. You can only use this feature 3 times per long rest.
    This breaks bounded accuracy.
    Last edited by Yakk; 2020-11-09 at 11:19 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: College of blade dancing - Homebrew share

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Some rewording:

    College of Blade Dancing
    Blade Dancers are artists who have learned to become one with a sword while dancing. As a the result is that they are able to channel their spells through their swords in a way that pierce their enemies defenses. Their art is both beautiful and deadly. They can be seen entertaining crowds of people, blade dancing for their Gods, selling their skills or simply helping others with their protective support.

    Performance Training:
    When you join the College of Blade Dancing at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with scimitars.

    Partner in Show:
    Starting at 3rd level, you learn the dancing lights cantrip. When you use the cantrip, as a bonus action you can control the dancing lights and make it blade dance against you.



    This is really awkwardly worded and I'm having problems fixing it.

    The natural language of 5e requires that abilities have a certain amount of elegance. Your rules are really difficult to express without the point-form/list format you are using, or long and twisted paragraphs.

    As part of that natural language requirement, you probably need to change some of the mechanics and remove some exceptions and corner cases somehow.


    Does this cost a use of bardic inspiration? If not, this is "you are nearly impossible to hit"; at level 13 20 dex + expertise(performance) + 1d10 bardic inspiration is 1d20+15+1d10 is average 31 AC (SD 7, 95% confidence interval 17 to 45).

    If you have (say) enhance ability (dex) up, the SD shrinks and the average goes up to like 34 or 35.

    So I'll assume you expend a use of bardic inspiration to use this? Now the only problem is that it is a fussier version of the "add bardic inspiration to your AC" features other subclasses get.


    This duplicates a feat, which is something you should avoid I think.

    Burning a use of inspiration for an attack is a strong move. On par with Whispers's inspiration-smite. A 3 level Bard dip on a Hexadinlock would be tempting for this.

    Better just to restrict what spells can be used. The ability to cast a single target fireball is cute, but not worth this many words and exceptions.

    The core idea here is burn a bardic inspiration to deliver a spell using a sword, right?

    "As an action, you can expend a use of bardic inspiration to cast a spell that targets only one creature within reach of your sword. The melee attack roll replaces any attack rolls the spell would make on your turn. If your melee attack roll hits, the first saving throw the creature makes against the spell has a penalty equal to your bardic inspiration die roll. If your attack misses, the spell fails."

    "targets only one creature" means you can use this with a barrage of scorching rays, but not with a fireball.

    I replaced disadvantage with "subtract bardic inspiration die", because otherwise this doesn't use the die.



    A problem is that your "blade dance" is increasingly "just always on". In fact, if you are walking slower than 25' per round and can have your sword out, there is almost no reason not to be in the blade dance all the time.

    This ability (turn it on as a reaction) is a mixture of useless (why aren't you already in the form?) and doubling down on always being in it.

    You probably need to strip out some of the benefits of blade dance form from the form itself (like, AC), and make some of the others a real decision.

    The "special form you are always in" is mechanical cruft.

    This breaks bounded accuracy.
    Thank you for in depht analysis.

    I really like:I replaced disadvantage with "subtract bardic inspiration die", because otherwise this doesn't use the die.

    Originally my unarmored defense was just while holding a sword but I received the complaint of having too much feature at level 3.

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    Default Re: College of blade dancing - Homebrew share

    L 3:
    Scimitar proficiency

    Dance Partner:
    Dancing lights cantrip. As a bonus action can have it become a partner, and do the aid another action on an allies attack (!). (but not yours)

    (This should do something; aid another is flavorful and fun).

    Dancing Defense:
    10+Dex+Cha to AC when unarmored and not using a shield

    L 6:
    Offensive Dance
    When you use your Dance Partner bonus action, you can also make an attack. If you spend an inspiration die, delivering blade feature (can cast a spell as part of the attack).

    If hit, roll you can inspiration as a reaction. If this makes the attack miss, you can make an attack back using a Dexterity(Performance) check instead of an attack roll.


    Move the uses of inspiration up to level 6, and get stuff on par with extra attack.
    Last edited by Yakk; 2020-11-10 at 10:14 AM.

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: College of blade dancing - Homebrew share

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    L 3:
    Scimitar proficiency

    Dance Partner:
    Dancing lights cantrip. As a bonus action can have it become a partner, and do the aid another action on an allies attack (!). (but not yours)

    (This should do something; aid another is flavorful and fun).

    Dancing Defense:
    10+Dex+Cha to AC when unarmored and not using a shield

    L 6:
    Offensive Dance
    When you use your Dance Partner bonus action, you can also make an attack. If you spend an inspiration die, delivering blade feature (can cast a spell as part of the attack).

    If hit, roll you can inspiration as a reaction. If this makes the attack miss, you can make an attack back using a Dexterity(Performance) check instead of an attack roll.


    Move the uses of inspiration up to level 6, and get stuff on par with extra attack.
    You sir is awesome, you took my flavorfull cantrip and focused more on it. I'll go more that way so that it differenciate a bit more from college of sword. I'll make my dance feature less clunky.

    I don't mind no extra attack.

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: College of blade dancing - Homebrew share

    What would you say of the homebrew like this. I went even further than my original inspiration of the blade dancers of eilistraee an went the path of the partnerbin dance.


    Blade dancers are artist that have learned to make a show with lights and a sword in hand while dancing and the result is that they are able to channel their spells through their dancing light partner in a way that pierce their enemies defense. Their art is both beautiful and deadly. They can be seen entertaining crowds of people, blade dancing for their Gods, selling their skills or simply helping others. Sword dancers have embrased their blade dancing with their inner inspiration and their prowess will mistifiate both crowds and foes.

    Bonus proficiencies:
    Weapons: scimitar
    Skills : performance or acrobatic, your choice

    Bonus cantrip:
    You gain the dancing lights cantrip

    Partner in show:
    Starting at 3rd level, as a bonus action, you can cast and control the dancing lights to look like a medium creature that is blade dancing.

    Blade dancing:
    Also, at 3rd level, you learn to dance as one with swords. You can choose to spend half your movement to begin blade dancing. Your dance last until the beginning of your next turn and stop if your movement speed become 0, if you take the hide action or use the dash action.

    While blade dancing, You can use your swords as your bardic spell focus and do not have to provide the somatic nor the verbal components for the spell you cast as long as the material components requirement is met. You gain an increased control of your partner in show and can control it in a way that replicates your movements or make it look like that it is blade dancing against you.Also, as an action, your partner in show can swing its blade at a creature to deliver a 5 feet range melee spell attack using your spellcasting ability modifier. On a hit, the target takes radiant damage equal to 1d4 and glow brightly until the start of your next turn. The next attack roll or ability check against the target is made with advantage and the effect end. At higher Levels. This spell's damage increase by 1d4 when you reach 5th level(2d4), 11th level (3d4), and 17th level (4d4).
    Delivering partner:
    Starting at the 6th level, you learn to deliver magical effects through the dance of your partner. As an action, you can expand a bardic inspiration die to cast a spell through your dancing partner and increase the effectiveness of the casted spell. Use the roll result to increase the total of your die rolls or to increase the saving throw DC by one fifth the result(rounded up)of a spell and use your partner in dance to deliver the spell. As long as you can expend a spell slot of a sufficient level, the spells your partner in dance can deliver are Sleep, Enlarge/Reduce, Haste, Polymorph and Dominate person. These spells can only be cast through your dancing partner unless you already know them. The properties of the spells are different, they are changed to 5 feet touch range and can only target creatures or objects as long as the distance between you and your dancing partner is not farther than the usual range of the spells it is delivering.

    Perfect form
    Beginning at the 14th level, you are becoming quite a formidable blade dancer and mastered your blade dance form. You can now control 2 dancing partners with your action. They each can make a melee spell attack using your action. Also, you can now deliver spells to 2 different target using your partners in dance. You have to roll separately for each target and you can only add your bardic inspiration die once.

  11. - Top - End - #11
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: College of blade dancing - Homebrew share

    I edited my first message where I started the thread and I would like you to have a look at my work. the link is from my google drive account

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VmU...w?usp=drivesdk

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