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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I forget what the official explanation was, but you can handwave the heatsinks pretty easily by saying it allows guns to put out more velocity and it's needed to keep up with shield tech.
    I never really saw the need for changing the gameplay system at all. I sure didn't miss running around after every fight picking up ammo, and for most of ME 1 my sustained fire rate was not that much different than if I was using ammo. Sure by end game I had assault rifles that could fire basically forever, but that's sort of the point of endgame gear in an RPG. And if they really wanted to force you to stop shooting, just dialing back the effect of top tier mods, or increasing the recoil penalty for super long bursts would have worked fine.

    Mostly I missed the overheat system because it was a cool piece of world-building first design. Thermal clips were just a crappy take on universal ammo systems; which are the most boring possible form of ammo system anyway. At least something like STALKER's ammo system makes the bullets matter.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    I can see a remaster as worthwhile for a reasonable price, especially if its tied in to a common games portal rather than hidden away on the special Bioware/EA account or wherever it currently is - I mean, I technically own ME3 and MEA, but I'd have to look up where to go to actually sign in and download them again.

    The ending remains a sticking point though. I've played through ME1 and ME2 several times (as I recall, even the old school ME1 experience is significantly improved by playing on a high end gaming PC and crushing down most of the non-elevator related loading times to nearly nothing) but I've never bothered to replay ME3 because the endling is so lackluster.

    They could improve the ending though. Honestly just canonizing Destroy would help. Your other choices would still have mattered, and they could then cobble together some still frames about the post-destroy situation (possibly with some variations based on a few of the more significant choices) to serve as a cheap teaser for the universe going forward. Bioware admitting that the ending was a failure in this way would be a major step forward in forgiveness by the fan community and would probably move additional units.

    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin
    Handled with a modicum of competence (i.e. BioWare management doesn't spend 4+ years screwing around, then crunches a broken shell of a game out the door in 18 months of vile working conditions) I think that could work well.
    I have to agree. Even for all of its problems, MEA is an okay game if you can get it to run without too many technical issues. I honestly believe that if they'd taken the time to fix those before launch it would have been remembered simply as a lackluster follow-up, not a massive disaster. The main story and companion mission set pieces are fine, a little weak in the story department at times, but still fine. Even the core exploration plotlines on the major worlds aren't terrible as sidequests go. The gameplay wasn't anything super-special, but it was acceptable for a cover shooter with RPG elements. The only real problem was that it got really repetitive over time because there was so little variation in enemy types, mostly because all the humanoids fight in functionally the same way - though honestly, ME2 has this problem and it's the one everyone loves.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    For what it's worth, in the unlikely event they were going to choose an ending to canonize and then base the new game on that, I think that Control is probably the best one to do to minimize the number of people you tick off. You have neither the Geth genocide of Destroy nor the body horror of Synthesis, and get the plot hook to explore of just what the galaxy uses the now-controlled Reapers for. Win all around. (And I say that as someone whose preferred ending is Synthesis, not Control, btw.)
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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    For what it's worth, in the unlikely event they were going to choose an ending to canonize and then base the new game on that, I think that Control is probably the best one to do to minimize the number of people you tick off. You have neither the Geth genocide of Destroy nor the body horror of Synthesis, and get the plot hook to explore of just what the galaxy uses the now-controlled Reapers for. Win all around. (And I say that as someone whose preferred ending is Synthesis, not Control, btw.)
    I disagree, because then you have to answer the question of why doesn't Shepherd solve his with his galaxy crushing fleet of Reapers?

    With Destroy the galaxy is mostly open to adventure in. In fact it is more so. There is no real unifying force anymore, so conspiracies and tinpot warlords can go crazy.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I disagree, because then you have to answer the question of why doesn't Shepherd solve his with his galaxy crushing fleet of Reapers?
    Which quite conveniently dovetails with the potential for using "what exactly are the Reapers being used for" as a plot hook, no? Plus it allows use of said Shepherd AI, which is both another interesting thing to explore and plenty of potential fanservice.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Which quite conveniently dovetails with the potential for using "what exactly are the Reapers being used for" as a plot hook, no? Plus it allows use of said Shepherd AI, which is both another interesting thing to explore and plenty of potential fanservice.
    Probably keeping the peace and protecting the universe. And a Shepherd AI is even worse, that creates a canon Shepherd, instead of the personalized ones we all had.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    As I said, I really don't think you or I are the target audience for this. They're not trying to get people who have already played these games to buy them again; they're trying to draw in a new audience and release it on new platforms. Which can also serve to drum up interest for the new game, whenever it comes. The resources spent on a remake are probably better spent making said new game.
    Yeah, you're probably right.

    That doesn't stop me from wishing that a true remake of ME1 could happen. It happened for Final Fantasy 7, it could happen for Mass Effect. More time probably needs to pass to make it a worthwhile investment for them, but maybe someday.

    It seems to me like a missed opportunity for them to not do a real remake now, considering the lack of relevance the Mass Effect franchise has had in the last few years, but I hold on to hope that a total remake of the trilogy might still happen eventually.

    But as long as EA is in control, they'll obviously go for the quick cash grab attempt first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    For what it's worth, in the unlikely event they were going to choose an ending to canonize and then base the new game on that, I think that Control is probably the best one to do to minimize the number of people you tick off. You have neither the Geth genocide of Destroy nor the body horror of Synthesis, and get the plot hook to explore of just what the galaxy uses the now-controlled Reapers for. Win all around. (And I say that as someone whose preferred ending is Synthesis, not Control, btw.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I disagree, because then you have to answer the question of why doesn't Shepherd solve his with his galaxy crushing fleet of Reapers?
    Answering the question of what Control Shepard does with the Reaper fleet, and why they are too busy with something else to fix everyone's problems, is exactly the sort of thing that would make a good setup for a new story IMO.
    Last edited by KillianHawkeye; 2020-11-09 at 12:32 AM.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Probably keeping the peace and protecting the universe. And a Shepherd AI is even worse, that creates a canon Shepherd, instead of the personalized ones we all had.
    Not if it's an imperfect copy of Shepard - which is kind of the more interesting option from a story perspective anyway. All they need to do is allow you to choose its gender, and whether it should be based on an originally Paragon or Renegade Shep, then go from there in whatever direction they choose. It becomes its own distinct character, just with a basis in the original hero that sacrificed him/herself to save everyone.

    And a Shepherd AI controlling the Reapers is what Control results in canonically, unless I'm greatly misremembering.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2020-11-09 at 12:31 AM.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    And a Shepherd AI controlling the Reapers is what Control results in canonically, unless I'm greatly misremembering.
    Well, it's a little unclear whether the merger of Shepherd with the Reapers results in an AI facsimile of Shepherd, or it's a true merger of Shepherd's consciousness with that of the Reapers. At the technological level of AI consciousness that the Reapers appear to operate, it isn't conclusive that a human mind that transcends into that level of AI would substantially differ from the original human consciousness from which it came.

    You could say that the Reapers are a flawed intelligence, because they could not move past their original conclusion that advanced organic life would inevitably lead to the creation of synthetic life, which would then inevitably lead to conflict between organics and synthetics. The merger of Control Shepherd's identity would let the Reapers evolve past this limitation. But how will they cope with and adapt to their new role in the universe? Will they be locked into a new paradigm based on Shepherd's mind, and be once again unable to evolve? Or will the addition of Shepherd's humanity allow them the flexibility which they have lacked for millennia? These are the most interesting questions which a sequel to the Control ending of the ME Trilogy can try to answer for us.

    The only other good sequel option is to explore the ramifications of the Synthesis ending, because the Destroy ending only leads to a boring reset of the galaxy.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    The only other good sequel option is to explore the ramifications of the Synthesis ending, because the Destroy ending only leads to a boring reset of the galaxy.
    A boring reset of the galaxy is by far the best option for making future games.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    Yeah, you're probably right.

    That doesn't stop me from wishing that a true remake of ME1 could happen. It happened for Final Fantasy 7, it could happen for Mass Effect. More time probably needs to pass to make it a worthwhile investment for them, but maybe someday.

    It seems to me like a missed opportunity for them to not do a real remake now, considering the lack of relevance the Mass Effect franchise has had in the last few years, but I hold on to hope that a total remake of the trilogy might still happen eventually.

    But as long as EA is in control, they'll obviously go for the quick cash grab attempt first.
    I might agree if they weren't also making a new game. But they are, so I'd rather look forward to seeing what they do with that.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post
    I never really saw the need for changing the gameplay system at all. I sure didn't miss running around after every fight picking up ammo, and for most of ME 1 my sustained fire rate was not that much different than if I was using ammo.
    Even if the point of the heatsinks was to increase the fire rate, that doesn't explain why they changed it so the guns don't work *at all* without them. They ought to fall back to the ME1 system if you run out of heatsinks so you can still at least defend yourself in a pinch.

    Anyway, I'm sure I've said before that ME2 is where the series lost me. It has the best side missions and optional content of almost any game I've played, but the main plot...Lordy, they really messed up that one. I knew the series was pretty much dead in the water for me when they actually had all of the heroes leave the ship *on a shuttle* (which couldn't possibly fit all of them and which has never been shown to have FTL capability) for poorly explained reasons just to give an excuse for them not to be present when the ship comes under attack.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    You could write a decent story with any of the settings from the original ending. The problem is that gamers aren't going to want anything that invalidates their previous choice.

    Another option is to jump forward in time and leave things vague. Maybe some reapers got destroyed. Maybe some reformed under a Shepard AI and it's unclear if it's the original or a copy. Maybe some people got merged with synthetics but it wasn't universal. Leave room for people to headcanon their own ending.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    The main fix that is needed is to improve the elevator speed on the Normandy in ME1. That was just unacceptible.

    Getting the skill and equipment system of ME2 or ME3 in the first one would also be great.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    ME1 was an original (as original as bioware gets, anyway), gritty, flawed masterpiece and interesting, varied companions and I loved it dearly. It has an excellent blend of oldschool western RPG mixed with a bit of FPS action that created something pretty damn memorable. It's like the flipside of the Halo coin - lots of story for the RPG guys, and just enough action to keep in fast paced enough not to lose the shooter crowd.
    ME2 was a mediocre shooter with a pretty terrible plot, generic bad guy and a bunch of effort put into the companions arcs and the last mission. I loathe that they turned a really interesting RPG into a dumbed down shooter, and don't get me started on the idiotic ammo mechanic!
    ME3 absolutely **** the bed in almost every way. At no point in your rambling, incoherent game were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone who played this is now dumber for having played it. I award you no points, and may Shepard have mercy on your soul.

    For the life of me, I can't see why 2 or 3 is held in better regard than the original, with the exception of exploration being made slightly less of a boring PITA.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    You could write a decent story with any of the settings from the original ending. The problem is that gamers aren't going to want anything that invalidates their previous choice.

    Another option is to jump forward in time and leave things vague. Maybe some reapers got destroyed. Maybe some reformed under a Shepard AI and it's unclear if it's the original or a copy. Maybe some people got merged with synthetics but it wasn't universal. Leave room for people to headcanon their own ending.
    This is probably the best bet. Write a new version of the universe that is at odds with ALL the endings. Including the endings of the non-Reaper parts of the story.

    The Reapers are gone because Shepard did...something. Nobody knows quite what. Weird stuff happened and when the fireworks display ended there were no more Reapers.

    The Krogan have had a civil war. The genophage was cured, and most of the Krogan joined up with Wrex's new government to be good citizens of the galaxy. However, a significant portion broke off under Wreav and are building up to conquer the galaxy again.

    The Salarians are not best pleased by this, and they're agitating for war against BOTH sets of Krogan.

    The Quarians and the Geth are similarly splintered. Legion's new Geth did not propagate fully through the collective, and the Quarian hardliners still think the only good Geth is a dead Geth.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    I still don't understand what the big deal is with the heat sinks. Yeah, in-universe the change was stupid, but in practice I don't care much one way or the other. Maybe if ME1's overheating wasn't as clunky and if it was harder to make a gun that rarely if ever overheats. But ultimately having to press reload now and then just doesn't matter that much.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    For the life of me, I can't see why 2 or 3 is held in better regard than the original, with the exception of exploration being made slightly less of a boring PITA.
    I think it comes down to the aforementioned side quests etc. If you actually figure out how much time you spend playing the game, probably 80% or more is the side stuff, which is extremely good in ME2. I guess my biggest issue really is that ME1 had everything set up for following games--Shepard the Spectre can go anywhere and do more or less anything, he's got the information implanted in his head by the Prothean beacon, he has an expert in Prothean archaeology to help him find answers (Liara), and the Reapers have been delayed for some unguessable amount of time by the Prothean trickery at the Citadel. It's just perfectly poised for a galaxy-wide investigation to try and find an answer to the Reapers. Then, at the beginning of ME2, they start as they mean to go on by throwing all that buildup out the window and forcing Shepard to work for a bunch of terrorists regardless of his own opinion on the matter.
    Last edited by factotum; 2020-11-09 at 06:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    With Destroy the galaxy is mostly open to adventure in. In fact it is more so. There is no real unifying force anymore, so conspiracies and tinpot warlords can go crazy.
    I tend to agree with the Destroy galaxy being the most interesting post-ME3. Yes, you lose the Geth, but I bet you could shoehorn them in there, somehow (perhaps an enclave of them that were off-the-grid or outside the galaxy). You get Andromeda's small galaxy effect, with all familiar races and locations, and maybe NPCs (like Liara).

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I forget what the official explanation was, but you can handwave the heatsinks pretty easily by saying it allows guns to put out more velocity and it's needed to keep up with shield tech.
    Basically, yes. The idea is that disposable heat sinks allow a greater rate of fire, chipping away at shields and not allowing them time to recharge. However, I'd also say that with weapons where ROF isn't as crucial (sniper weapons, pistols), it's a bit more of a waste.
    Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2020-11-09 at 08:37 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    For the life of me, I can't see why 2 or 3 is held in better regard than the original, with the exception of exploration being made slightly less of a boring PITA.
    I don't believe 3 is held in higher regard by anybody but the truly and irredeemably mad. But 2 is pretty evident as to why it's held in higher regard. Gameplay wise ME2 is tighter yeah yeah yeah waist high cover shooter yeah yeah yeah ammo system but ME1 gameplay was kinda flabby you being able to use cover but the system wasn't good, classes were different but all played the same, you were able to use any weapon but any weapon that your class couldn't train in was a waste of time 50 different types of armor in three different classes with 12 different models and difficulty settings that just ramped up the damage the enemies did and how much life they had. I loved every second of ME1 but there was flab there. Meanwhile ME2 is slimmed down almost too much every class has a distinct capstone power with a small selection of secondary powers to choose from that make each one good against different enemies. Then the facial animations for the companions were really fleshed out in ME2 giving the companions the full range of emotions while in ME1 the voice actors gave it their all but the technology just wasn't there for the full synergy and each one had a cool story mission where you had a cool experience and were by far the most memorable part from any of the 3 ME games. Where as the companion missions in ME1 were interchangeable with any other fight you had throughout the game.

    When it comes down for me in a game I'm looking for gameplay, characters and an ending. ME2 was an improvement over ME1 in 2 of the 3 categories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    I still don't understand what the big deal is with the heat sinks. Yeah, in-universe the change was stupid, but in practice I don't care much one way or the other. Maybe if ME1's overheating wasn't as clunky and if it was harder to make a gun that rarely if ever overheats. But ultimately having to press reload now and then just doesn't matter that much.
    Well you got it with “in-universe the change was stupid.”

    There are people who take that level of apathy to worldbuilding as bad writing. And it’s hard to disagree with them. Hell in your own defense you copped to it. It just effects people other than you.

    While I personally didn’t care, I can think of other stories I’ve read or watched where the logistics were firmly established and important in the early seasons and then ignored in the later and it ticked me off (GoT if it matters). Same thing is happening here.

    The other thing is that there are players who like the gameplay that the cooldown method promoted. Pretty much universally, the best thing to do with infinite ammo was get a sniper, tuck yourself in a corner and kill everything at a distance.

    That one strategy takes you through every fight in the game. Even the ones you don’t think it should because stuff is jumping around. It’s also in my opinion the single most boring way to play. And I hated how effective and easy it made the game.

    But some people love it. For reasons I cannot comprehend. They don’t like the idea of being forced to use other weapons and deploy other tactics as you are forced to leave your hide-y hole to collect ammo because you used all of it in your favorite gun.

    Now cards on the table, I personally thought the game was way more fun when I had to switch weapons up and plan where to run to to grab ammo mid fight. Thought it made the whole thing more intense. But I also recognize as others have said that the collecting of ammo post battle was dull as ****. And some people don’t want to be forced into strategies that are not their favorite.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    I found ME1 to be great fun, even without ever doing the hide and snipe. The classes largely played the same, is true, and I think Electronics was sort of an uber-powerful skill, since it jumped your shields so high AND was necessary to do one type of hacking. Electronics, Decryption, Lift, and an Assault Rifle will get you through a lot of that game.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect Remastered coming soon and new Mass Effect Game in the Works

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    The only other good sequel option is to explore the ramifications of the Synthesis ending, because the Destroy ending only leads to a boring reset of the galaxy.
    As Mechalich indicated, those that are advocating for that route seem to view that as a feature, not a bug. And to be fair, if they were to go that route, I wouldn't say "No" to it either (at least not on that basis), I'd just be very disappointed that they chose to canonize Shepherd being callous enough to choose a solution that involved genocide over two alternatives that did not.

    But hey, I'm also someone who doesn't care about the whole "make my choices matter!" nonsense and is good with the writers telling whatever story they want to, as long as it's good. I just won't like that particular implication of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Name_Here View Post
    I don't believe 3 is held in higher regard by anybody but the truly and irredeemably mad.
    Uh, no, definitely not. ME1 being the weakest of the trilogy seems to be a reasonably common opinion. I won't hazard a guess as to what percentage of the fanbase holds it, since I've no real way to make that guess, but I know I'm among them, and I've seen more than a few others over the years. Comments about people either skipping it (or at least thinking about doing so) when they re-play the series have been common over the years, and there's plenty of common criticisms of its gameplay relative to its successors, ranging from the inventory system, to the Mako, to the core combat mechanics. Not to mention the companion characters generally being considered on the weak side compared to later games - Ashley and Kaiden typically rate on the bottom of the list there, and much as people like Tali, Garrus, Wrex, and Liara, even they mainly serve as windows into what their respective species are like in ME1, and become more interesting as individuals in the later games. Say what you will about ME1's world building, it can only carry the game so far, at least with some of us.
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    Correct me if I'm missing something, but if the Reapers are some sort of weird ensemble built out of a harvested species, then isn't Destroy in essence a mega-genocide? Like basically as bad as setting up the Reapers in the first place?


    Personally I'd find an exploration of Synthesis potentially fascinating. There's just a whole bundle of stuff to unpack there. Do people need to eat? Breathe? Have sex? Is species still a meaningful concept? Do people still grow old and die?

    The tricky part would be that 1, you'd need a really good, thoughtful writer to pull that off, and 2, the reason everybody is a techno-hybrid is such a total space magic ass-pull its gonna be super hard to make anything feel like it isn't totally arbitrary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post
    Correct me if I'm missing something, but if the Reapers are some sort of weird ensemble built out of a harvested species, then isn't Destroy in essence a mega-genocide? Like basically as bad as setting up the Reapers in the first place?
    If you interpret the species in question as still being in some sort of state of life through the proxy of the Reapers, I suppose. I suspect you'd get a lot of debate on that particular point though.

    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post
    Personally I'd find an exploration of Synthesis potentially fascinating. There's just a whole bundle of stuff to unpack there. Do people need to eat? Breathe? Have sex? Is species still a meaningful concept? Do people still grow old and die?

    The tricky part would be that 1, you'd need a really good, thoughtful writer to pull that off, and 2, the reason everybody is a techno-hybrid is such a total space magic ass-pull its gonna be super hard to make anything feel like it isn't totally arbitrary.
    Pretty much, yeah. Also there's the fact that it seems to be far and away the most hated of the three endings, so it's almost certainly the one that would be most likely to have a significant chunk of the fan base pass on it based on the concept alone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Uh, no, definitely not. ME1 being the weakest of the trilogy seems to be a reasonably common opinion. I won't hazard a guess as to what percentage of the fanbase holds it, since I've no real way to make that guess, but I know I'm among them, and I've seen more than a few others over the years. Comments about people either skipping it (or at least thinking about doing so) when they re-play the series have been common over the years, and there's plenty of common criticisms of its gameplay relative to its successors, ranging from the inventory system, to the Mako, to the core combat mechanics. Not to mention the companion characters generally being considered on the weak side compared to later games - Ashley and Kaiden typically rate on the bottom of the list there, and much as people like Tali, Garrus, Wrex, and Liara, even they mainly serve as windows into what their respective species are like in ME1, and become more interesting as individuals in the later games. Say what you will about ME1's world building, it can only carry the game so far, at least with some of us.
    This. I skipped ME1 entirely. I watched synopsis videos of the major cutscenes and used the comic at the start of ME2 to make the relevant decisions. I've never managed to progress past the first Mako mission in ME1 because the gameplay is so bad.

    It's hard for me to choose between 2 and 3, but on balance I come down on the side of 3. Yes, the ending had problems. This is offset by the entire rest of the game. The gameplay is the best in the series. The character stories and sidequests are some of the best storytelling the games have to offer. It has some of the best humor of the entire trilogy. And all of that is without taking Citadel into account.

    If they were to remake the series, I wouldn't ask for major storytelling changes. I'd ask for them to update the gameplay of the first two games to the level of the third, update the character conversations in ME1 to be closer to ME2/3, and add some bling to the ending to show some of the war assets you earned. Add polish without making sweeping changes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post
    Correct me if I'm missing something, but if the Reapers are some sort of weird ensemble built out of a harvested species, then isn't Destroy in essence a mega-genocide? Like basically as bad as setting up the Reapers in the first place?
    No more than putting down a zombie is murder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    No more than putting down a zombie is murder.
    Zombies are generally completely braindead. The Reapers clearly are not. Who knows what long strange dreams they dream, floating in the dark?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    As Mechalich indicated, those that are advocating for that route seem to view that as a feature, not a bug. And to be fair, if they were to go that route, I wouldn't say "No" to it either (at least not on that basis), I'd just be very disappointed that they chose to canonize Shepherd being callous enough to choose a solution that involved genocide over two alternatives that did not.

    But hey, I'm also someone who doesn't care about the whole "make my choices matter!" nonsense and is good with the writers telling whatever story they want to, as long as it's good. I just won't like that particular implication of it.


    Uh, no, definitely not. ME1 being the weakest of the trilogy seems to be a reasonably common opinion. I won't hazard a guess as to what percentage of the fanbase holds it, since I've no real way to make that guess, but I know I'm among them, and I've seen more than a few others over the years. Comments about people either skipping it (or at least thinking about doing so) when they re-play the series have been common over the years, and there's plenty of common criticisms of its gameplay relative to its successors, ranging from the inventory system, to the Mako, to the core combat mechanics. Not to mention the companion characters generally being considered on the weak side compared to later games - Ashley and Kaiden typically rate on the bottom of the list there, and much as people like Tali, Garrus, Wrex, and Liara, even they mainly serve as windows into what their respective species are like in ME1, and become more interesting as individuals in the later games. Say what you will about ME1's world building, it can only carry the game so far, at least with some of us.
    I feel like genocide is the only reasonable response considering the other two seem like such a trap. One has you do exactly what a clear puppet of the Reaper's wanted to do, and the other is a massive violation of all of your allies in order to spare a race that is actively trying to perform genocide to you and all of your friends and allies. Actively as in currently doing it as you make your decision. So I don't feel bad about getting them before they get us.

    As far as games go;

    ME1: I enjoyed it, and it has one of my favorite moments (convincing Saren to shoot himself in the head). Overall it was a very solid game and I had no real complaints about it.

    ME2: Combat was a lot better, a bunch of awesome characters were introduced, and the storyline was pretty decent. Particularly the side stories. My biggest complaints were the stupid scanning for minerals and the fact that we had to wait for the entire game to basically be over until we could finally tell TIM to stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

    ME3: I loved about 98% of this game. I have some relatively minor quibbles about the ending, enough so that I understand where people are coming from, but other than that I liked pretty much everything. I wish they spent more time showing the Reapers as characters of their own and explored the whole proto-Reaper from ME2 more, but that didn't detract from what we had.

    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post
    Correct me if I'm missing something, but if the Reapers are some sort of weird ensemble built out of a harvested species, then isn't Destroy in essence a mega-genocide? Like basically as bad as setting up the Reapers in the first place?


    Personally I'd find an exploration of Synthesis potentially fascinating. There's just a whole bundle of stuff to unpack there. Do people need to eat? Breathe? Have sex? Is species still a meaningful concept? Do people still grow old and die?

    The tricky part would be that 1, you'd need a really good, thoughtful writer to pull that off, and 2, the reason everybody is a techno-hybrid is such a total space magic ass-pull its gonna be super hard to make anything feel like it isn't totally arbitrary.
    They don't explore that concept enough to my liking, so there isn't really a canon answer. That would make a great justification for the Reaper's actions though but again, they didn't really explore that.


    An exploration of Synthesis would be fascinating, but I have a hard time imagining it making for a great game. It would make for a hilarious end point though. Everyone is now technically the same species, but everyone still keeps fighting and squabbling anyways because ultimately, we invent the differences that separate us rather than them being an inherent part of our being.
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    I've come to realize that ME2 and ME3 are a series of strong character moments held together by an increasingly-flimsy main plot. ME3, in particular, pulls a lot of smoke and mirrors to prevent us from noticing how directionless it is. That means they're best if you can manage to focus on the small parts and not the big picture.
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