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Thread: How many ways to "Concentrate"?
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2021-12-11, 12:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
How many ways to "Concentrate"?
OK, so... you can:
Fully works:
Concentrate on a spell normally
Have another "Concentration" spell running via Sonorous Hum (Spell Compendium)
Have your familiar concentrate on something via the Familiar Concentration feat (Lost Empires of Faerun - goes well with Extra Familiar, I imagine)
With Psionics in the mix, there's Solicit Psicrystal.
Spirit Shaman-10: Spirit can concentrate for you.
Have someone else do it:
Intelligent magic items using their own abilities which require concentration.
Ring of Spell Storing (DMG) to have an ally cast a spell you've stored.
Imbue With Spell Ability (PHB) to have an arbitrary-ish ally cast and maintain specific spells.
Imbue Familiar with spell ability (Spell Compendium) to have your familiar cast and maintain spells. Has some limits.
Allied Spellcaster who can use their own spell & action to maintain.
Incantatrix-6's ability to steal a concentration spell of yours.
Spelltheif (Complete Adventurer )'s Steal Spell - take a slot of yours, cast, and maintain it.
Doesn't quite work:
Extraordinary Concentration (Complete Adventurer) reduces the action cost of concentrating, but doesn't let you concentrate on more (does say it lets you cast, though).
The Swift Concentration Skill Trick (Complete Scoundrel) lets you concentrate as a Swift action once per encounter (but again, doesn't let you concentrate on more than one at a time).
Spells modified with Persistent Spell metamagic that would normally require concentration stick around without it (but don't necessarily have full effect - see the entry)
Melodic Casting (Complete Mage): Can use spells, command word items, spell completion items while using Bardic music (doesn't change action costs, however). Can also use Perform in place of Concentration.
Debatable interpretation:
Share Spells on (Greater) Arcane fusion (Complete Mage) with your familiar (debate seems to center around who's considered the caster of the sub-spells when it's "you cast" there)
How many other ways are there to Concentrate on spells and powers?
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Gruftzwerg
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And last (possibly least): Myself.
Last edited by Jack_Simth; 2021-12-14 at 06:24 PM.
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2021-12-11, 12:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
Re: How many ways to "Concentrate"?
Generally the easiest way is to just have someone else cast and concentrate for you. Probably the most simple solution is an intelligent magic item who's sole purpose is to concentrate on a spell you want.
Edit: They also do the casting of course.
Edit Edit: Unless they're a level 6 incantatrix, in which case they can take over concentrating for you on a spell you cast, automatically if you're willing, or with a check if unwilling.Last edited by Crake; 2021-12-11 at 12:44 PM.
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2021-12-11, 03:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How many ways to "Concentrate"?
If you don't want to spend a feat on Familiar Concentration, the spell Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability (S/W6, SpC) allows your familiar to cast (and thus concentrate on) spells of up to 5th level for you.
Imbue With Spell Ability (C4, SRD) allows you to do the same with any ally, but only with 1st and 2nd-level spells.
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2021-12-11, 06:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How many ways to "Concentrate"?
Is Melodic Casting worth mentioning for the fact that it allows you to cast while concentrating on your bardic music? Not exactly on topic, but topic-adjacent
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2021-12-11, 11:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How many ways to "Concentrate"?
10 levels of spirit shaman will make your spirit guide concentrate on spells for you.
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2021-12-12, 01:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How many ways to "Concentrate"?
Ring of Spellstoring on your familiar/ally/npc can be a workaround too imho.
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2021-12-13, 07:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How many ways to "Concentrate"?
@Gruftzwerg, The Viscount, Doctor Despair, Biggus, Crake
Added 'em in.Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2021-12-13, 09:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2016
Re: How many ways to "Concentrate"?
Another workaround:
Sorcerer: (Greater) Arcane Fusion is a personal spell that can be shared with your familiar. Abuse to let your familiar cast any spell too. You can ignore your own spells concentration and let your familiar concentrate on the shared one.Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
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2021-12-13, 08:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2021-12-13, 09:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2016
Re: How many ways to "Concentrate"?
Last edited by Gruftzwerg; 2021-12-13 at 09:53 PM.
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My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
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Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
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2021-12-14, 07:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
Re: How many ways to "Concentrate"?
Per Arcane Fusion: "When you cast this spell, choose any 1st-level sorcerer spell you know and any 4th-level or lower sorcerer spell you know."
Consider how share spells works at a table, using, say, Arcane Sight:Originally Posted by SRD
As it's played at most tables, when you cast it on your familiar via Share Spells, your familiar is the one who can see magical auras, make spellcraft checks to ID schools, and concentrate on a creature to see if it has magical abilities. Despite all the references being "you". So my conclusion is that most tables play "you" as being "the Share Spells target" when Share Spells is in use.
This interpretation breaks your plan. If you share Arcane Fusion with your familiar, then "spells you know" becomes "spells your familiar knows" - and generally speaking, your familiar doesn't know any (some exceptions apply at Epic levels, or with certain feats and spells).
Thinking about it though, even without that interpretation (and thus, "you" remains "your character" rather than "your familiar"), it still doesn't do what you want, because of a later instance of "you": "Both spells take effect in the order you choose, as if you had cast them one after the other using only one standard action" (Emphasis and Emphasis added). If "you" does not become "your familiar" when you use Share Spells on your familiar, then it's not your familiar casting them, which means "you" are treated as casting them, so your familiar can't concentrate to maintain them.
Am I missing anything?Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2021-12-14, 08:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2016
Re: How many ways to "Concentrate"?
Originally Posted by Arcane Fusion
2. "When you cast" adds an additional condition to the "cast" of the spell. While this part of the text is normally defined as effect of the spell, the rule text calls out a specific exception that adds another condition to the casting of the spell, not to its effect. If the bold part of the text wouldn't be there, your assumption would be correct. But that is not the chase here.
3. "you cast" refers clearly to the caster, while sole "you" (as in Arcane Sight) refers to the person having/wielding the effect.
4. You share the spells effect, not the cast to the familiar
I hope I could clear any possible doubts.?Last edited by Gruftzwerg; 2021-12-14 at 08:45 AM.
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Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
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2021-12-14, 06:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How many ways to "Concentrate"?
A Spellthief can also steal and cast one of your spell on your behalf, and thus concentrate on it.
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PC: Excuse me, what?
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2021-12-14, 06:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How many ways to "Concentrate"?
Let's get the full text here:
Originally Posted by Complete Mage
You have extremely similar language in the other sections - "as if you had cast them" "Effectively, you cast two other spells using this spell's 5th-level spell slot." (emphasis added)
The "cast" modifier (if it works that way) is present elsewhere as well. If the PC is the "you" in regards to casting... it's still not your familiar casting, so it's not your familiar maintaining, as it's the same language.
OK, so it's not the best example. Still, you're changing definitions of "you" in use partway through things.
It's the same basic phrasing on the sub-spells.
Apparently not. We're reading this interaction very differently. I suppose I can add a "debatable interpretation" section.Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2021-12-14, 08:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How many ways to "Concentrate"?
The disconnect, I think, is that Gruftzwerg is thinking of it like it were cast as a touch spell as described in the description of share spells:
Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of "You" on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself.
When you cast this spell, choose any 1st-level sorcerer spell you know and any 4th-level or lower sorcerer spell you know.
The only problem with Gruftzwerg's assertion I can come up with is that the familiar did not cast the spell and therefore the effect is ineffectual as everything after the first 5 words requires the beneficiary to be the caster.
I have to say that the RAW can literally go either way on this, but personally I am leaning toward arcane fusion works as if you cast it just so that the spell isn't a dud when cast on the familiar.Last edited by Darg; 2021-12-14 at 08:29 PM.
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2021-12-14, 09:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2016
Re: How many ways to "Concentrate"?
casting and concentrating are 2 different things. Concentrating is not part of the cast. The one wielding the effect starts to concentrate after the round the spell has been cast. Thus Concentrate is part of the effect. It doesn't have the "When you cast.." call out. It talks about "you" the one wielding the effect. Keep in mind that "sharing a spell" creates a specific exception where the familiar also gains the effect (and thus wields the effect) but doesn't cast the spell.
You have extremely similar language in the other sections - "as if you had cast them" "Effectively, you cast two other spells using this spell's 5th-level spell slot." (emphasis added)
The "cast" modifier (if it works that way) is present elsewhere as well. If the PC is the "you" in regards to casting... it's still not your familiar casting, so it's not your familiar maintaining, as it's the same language.
OK, so it's not the best example. Still, you're changing definitions of "you" in use partway through things.
Almost..^^ see below
The only problem with Gruftzwerg's assertion I can come up with is that the familiar did not cast the spell and therefore the effect is ineffectual as everything after the first 5 words requires the beneficiary to be the caster.
I have to say that the RAW can literally go either way on this, but personally I am leaning toward arcane fusion works as if you cast it just so that the spell isn't a dud when cast on the familiar.
But due to sharing, you copy sole the effect of the spell, not the casting. Thus the familiar is only affected by the effect of the spell.
Have a look at how the spell text is defined:
Originally Posted by Descriptive Text
"how it works" = possible additional casting information (infos for spell components, additional choices to be made while casting...)
The "Descriptive Text" of a spell ain't sole the effect. It also contains how it works (additional casting information).Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
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Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
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