Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #36: The Triple Dozen

[St Fan]

Q 336

Does a subject under a water walk spell or similar effect have the higher ground advantage over a swimming opponent? Or one standing in shallow water?

[Venger]

A 336 Yes ten characters

[Maat Mons]

Q337a: My understanding is that you can use scrolls/wands/whatever when crafting to supply prerequisite spells for crafting magic items if you don't know the spells yourself. Is this correct?

Q337b: What happens if you use a scroll/wand/whatever to supply the spell when crafting a scroll? Can you craft a scroll of a spell you don't know by expending another (maybe multiple), preexisting scroll(s) of that spell? Are the characteristics of this new scroll derived from the old scroll? Or from your own spellcasting ability?

[Venger]

A 337a Yes
A 337b I don't know why you would want to do this, but the answer is yes. You would use the scroll's characteristics.

[YellowJohn]

Q 338
Apart from the Wizard and the Wu-Jen, are there any arcane spellcasting classes that use a spellbook?

[Venger]

A 338 Corrupt avenger, chameleon, merchant prince, prime underdark guide, sword of the arcane order paladin/ranger, and death master.

[YellowJohn]

Thanks

Q 339
The Chameleon Arcane Focus ability reads:

"You gain the ability to prepare and cast arcane spells, which may be chosen from the spell list of any arcane spellcasting class. You prepare and cast these spells just as a wizard does, including the use of a spellbook"

Do I correctly interpret that a Chameleon can copy any Arcane spell they find in scroll form into their spellbook, in a similar manner to an Archivist but for Arcane Spells?

[ciopo]

A 339
No, the wording of Archivist is "At any time, an archivist can also add spells found on scrolls containing divine spells to his prayerbook"
The wording of Chamaleon is as you've quoted, "from the spell list of any arcane spellcasting class" , if the spell doesn't figure in the list of an arcane spellcasting class, you can't copy it

[YellowJohn]

Q 339 Clarification

A 339
No, the wording of Archivist is "At any time, an archivist can also add spells found on scrolls containing divine spells to his prayerbook"
The wording of Chamaleon is as you've quoted, "from the spell list of any arcane spellcasting class" , if the spell doesn't figure in the list of an arcane spellcasting class, you can't copy it

I'm a little confused, I'll try again.

Can a Chameleon copy any arcane spell from any arcane spell list into their spellbook so long as they can find it in written form (such as a scroll)?

[ciopo]

A339
Per the Rules compendium, yes

[Khedrac]

A 339
No, the wording of Archivist is "At any time, an archivist can also add spells found on scrolls containing divine spells to his prayerbook"
The wording of Chamaleon is as you've quoted, "from the spell list of any arcane spellcasting class" , if the spell doesn't figure in the list of an arcane spellcasting class, you can't copy it

Clarification If you find an arcane scroll of a spell that is not on a class's list (e.g a sactified spell) a chameleon cannot add it to their arcane spellbook.

[Thurbane]

Q 340

Can a creature with a natural slam release a grip on a weapon to use a slam as part of a full attack?

The specific case I'm thinking of is a Maug, with exotic weapon proficiency in the bastard sword: could it full attack with the sword two-handed, then as a free action shift it to a one-handed grip and slam as part of the full attack sequence that round?

[Venger]

A 340 No. On a full attack, you get all your manufactured weapon iteratives, and then you may make one attack each with your remaining natural weapons so long as they were not used in delivering the previous manufactured weapon attack(s). Same as you can't deliver a claw if you used both hands TWFing a manufactured weapon, a maug only has 2 slams from its 2 hands and since it used those 2 hands to attack 2handed with a bastard sword that round, it does not also get slams. Next round if it 1handed the bastard sword and had a hand free it could make one slam with that hand after weapon iteratives at -5 as normal.

[Elves]

Q 341

Is there any reason you can't ready an action contingent upon something you do? (For example, speaking a specific phrase, which is a free action you can take even when it isn't your turn.)

Seems like it kind of breaks the intent of the ready rules, but I can't see why it would be illegal.

[Venger]

A 341 No. ten characters

[Troacctid]

Q 341

Is there any reason you can't ready an action contingent upon something you do? (For example, speaking a specific phrase, which is a free action you can take even when it isn't your turn.)

Seems like it kind of breaks the intent of the ready rules, but I can't see why it would be illegal.

The reason you wouldn't necessarily want to do this is because you'd give up the ability to interrupt the triggering action. But if you're okay with that, then sure, go wild.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Q 342 All questions are about the spell Pulse of Hate (PHB II).

Q 342 a
Does the emanation follow the caster, or is it fixed at the point where it was cast originally?

Q 342 b
When does the damage trigger, at the start of the caster's turn, any time during the caster's turn, or something else? Example: Suppose at the start of the caster's turn an enemy is outside of the emanation and is then moved into the emanation during the caster's turn.

Q 343 c
How are "enemies" determined? Some examples: A secretly disloyal "ally" is in the area; an undetected stealthy enemy is in the area.

[Venger]

A 342a Follows the caster. This is what emanation means. It emanates from you so it follows you around.

A 342b Start of your turn. If an enemy was outside the range when your turn began and moved in later in the round, nothing would happen. If they were still there when it was your turn next round they would get damaged.

A 342c Objective reality. While you're unlikely to cast a targeted spell against a shapeshifter who's impersonating an ally and betraying you, a smart burst spell like this will damage them regardless, same for an invisible enemy. For simplicity's sake think about what their attitude would be towards you. Both of those examples would be hostile (willing to take risks to harm you) so would definitely qualify as enemies and get hurt by the spell.

[Elves]

Q 343: RC contradicting itself

Extra Damage: Extra damage beyond a weap-on’s normal damage, such as that dealt by precision dam-age abilities (see page 42) or the f laming property of a f laming sword, isn’t mul-tiplied when you score a critical hit.

If the bonus damage from a precision damage ability is expressed as extra dice of damage, the damage from those dice is never multiplied when the attack receives a damage multiplier (such as from a critical hit).

The first quote is a blanket statement about no extra damage. The 2nd suggests that precision damage not expressed as extra dice (such as from the Craven feat) would be multiplied. How is this resolved?

[Venger]

A 343 There is no contradiction. You understand the rules correctly. Craven is a static value and is multiplied normally while your sneak attack dice are not.

[Troacctid]

Q 343: RC contradicting itself





The first quote is a blanket statement about no extra damage. The 2nd suggests that precision damage not expressed as extra dice (such as from the Craven feat) would be multiplied. How is this resolved?

According to the crit rules, you multiply bonuses to damage, but not extra damage. So you simply determine whether the damage is extra or bonus. Craven is extra damage, so it would not be multiplied.

[Debatra]

A 342c Objective reality. While you're unlikely to cast a targeted spell against a shapeshifter who's impersonating an ally and betraying you, a smart burst spell like this will damage them regardless, same for an invisible enemy. For simplicity's sake think about what their attitude would be towards you. Both of those examples would be hostile (willing to take risks to harm you) so would definitely qualify as enemies and get hurt by the spell.

A 342c Contention This is never actually defined. The closest I can think of is the Invisibility spell saying that it depends on the invisible creature's perceptions.

If there's some rule I missed that says otherwise, by all means correct me.

[Elves]

According to the crit rules, you multiply bonuses to damage, but not extra damage. So you simply determine whether the damage is extra or bonus. Craven is extra damage, so it would not be multiplied.

Good attempt but doesn't solve the contradiction. RC 42 calls precision damage both extra damage and bonus damage, showing that those are not distinct terms.

"A number of abilities in the game allow a creature to deal extra damage by striking a vital area. This category of abili-ties includes sneak attack and other abil-ities that work like it..."

"If the bonus damage from a precision damage ability is expressed as extra dice of damage" [meaning that extra dice of precision damage are bonus damage.]

[Troacctid]

Good attempt but doesn't solve the contradiction. RC 42 calls precision damage both extra damage and bonus damage, showing that those are not distinct terms.

This doesn't matter because the Craven feat itself says its damage is extra damage.

[mattie_p]

A343 (additional): The Rules Compendium uses similar or identical wording to the PHB/DMG and SRD, which likewise references critical hits multiple times. For clarity sake, I will reference the 2003 versions of the PHB and DMG.

Spoiler: Long Rules Citations

Show

PHB 114, Weapon Qualities: Damage.
Exception: Extra damage over and above a weapon’s normal damage, such as that dealt by sneak attack or the special ability of a flaming sword, is not multiplied when you score a critical hit.

PHB 140, Critical Hits Sidebar.
Exception: Extra damage over and above a weapon’s normal damage, such as that dealt by sneak attack or the special ability of a flaming sword, is not multiplied when you score a critical hit.

PHB 134, Damage: Multiplying Damage.
Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage, such as that dealt by sneak attack or the special ability of a flaming sword, is not multiplied when you score a critical hit.
For example, Krusk the half-orc barbarian has a Strength bonus of +3. That means he gets a +3 bonus on damage rolls when using a longsword, a +4 bonus on damage when using a greataxe (twohanded), and a +1 bonus to damage when using a weapon in his off hand. His critical multiplier with a greataxe is ×3, so if he scores a critical hit with that weapon, he would roll 1d12+4 points of damage three times (the same as rolling 3d12+12).

DMG 221, Weapons: Additional Damage Dice.
Some magic weapons deal additional dice of damage. Unlike other modifiers to damage, additional dice of damage are not multiplied when the attacker scores a critical hit.

PHB 50: Rogue: Sneak Attack
... This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.

Champions of Ruin 17, Craven Feat.
When making a sneak attack, you deal an extra 1 point of damage per character level.

PHB 47 Ranger: Favored Enemy.
Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.

PHB 8, Strength.
You apply your character's strength modifier to ... damage rolls when using a melee or thrown weapon.

DMG 221, Weapons.
Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5. They apply these bonuses to both attack and damage rolls when used in combat.

TL;DR. Modifiers to damage rolls are multiplied on critical hits. Extra damage dice or modifiers to extra damage dice would not.

[mattie_p]

A343 (cont.) I will again cite relevant rules in the spoiler. However, I would invite you to open a new thread if you wish to discuss this further, as I feel this is no longer a "Simple" RAW question.

Spoiler: Iaijutsu Focus and Knowledge Devotion

Show

OA p58.
Check: If you attack a flat-footed opponent immediately after drawing a melee weapon, you can deal extra damage based upon the result of an Iaijutsu Focus check. ... the winner accumulates extra dice damage according to the accompanying table.

Iaijutsu Focus provides extra damage, it is not a modifier to the damage roll, and so would NOT be multiplied on a critical hit. On contrast...

Complete Champion p60.
You then receive an insight bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls against that creature type for the remainder of the combat.

Knowledge Devotion provides a static bonus to the damage rolls based on the check, and so WOULD be multiplied on a critical hit.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Q 344
My understanding of immediate actions is that they can (and often do) interrupt other actions, because you can take them "at any time." Can they interrupt effects that occur given some trigger, after the trigger happens? Another way to ask this is, does any amount of time exist between a trigger and an effect that occurs given that trigger, or are they simultaneous? Here is an example to illustrate my question:

Abby just died. Bonnie is a Cleric with Consumptive Field (SpC) currently active, and Abby hasn't been affected by it. Bonnie casts Revivify (SpC) on Abby. My understanding is that, without further intervention, this would trigger Consumptive Field - as being revived at -1 counts as "falling" to -1 - forcing Abby to save or die again. Can Bonnie cast Close Wounds (SpC) immediately after casting Revivify but before Consumptive Field forces a will save?

(If there is something technically wrong with my example, feel free to note that, but my primary interest is in the general question.)

[Elves]

A343 (cont.)Knowledge Devotion provides a static bonus to the damage rolls based on the check, and so WOULD be multiplied on a critical hit.[/SPOILER]

This bonus vs extra damage division doesn't work: "If the bonus damage from a precision damage ability is expressed as extra dice of damage" means that precision damage dice are bonus damage. They're also referred to as extra damage on the same page, so the terms are interchangeable. The question is how to resolve the contradiction between p40 and 42 re: extra damage that isn't expressed as dice. It probably requires DM ruling.

[Venger]

A 344 I will answer your general question first and then get into the specifics of your example.

Immediate actions can interrupt other actions but do not have to. If you want to take an immediate action after something happens, you can if you want to because you can take them at any time. I believe you're confusing them with readied actions which always resolve before whatever event triggered them.

Re: your example. Let's say for simplicity's sake Abby was killed with a sod or something not involving hp damage to explain why consumptive field didn't trigger at this point, or she was killed outside the aura.

Revivify sets Abby's hp total to a number less than 0, so it does force a save vs consumptive field. If Bonnie cast close wounds (assuming she had an immediate available) it would set her hp total to at least 1 prior to consumptive field activating so Abby would not need to make a save.

[Elves]

A 344 contention

An ongoing consumptive field effect can't be interrupted because it's not an action, it's a cause and effect statement. If Abby at any point "falls" to -1, the field takes effect -- there is no interruptable gap between the cause and the effect. And you can't cast close wounds until she is at -1. So you can't avoid it in that case.

But if an enemy is right now casting consumptive field, you can interrupt their cast action to heal her and prevent her from being affected.