Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #36: The Triple Dozen

[sreservoir]

A 431

I can't find a solid citation for the general case, but the fact that you need to already have spell components in hand to cast while grappling implies it:

Cast a Spell: You can attempt to cast a spell while grappling or even while pinned (see below), provided its casting time is no more than 1 standard action, it has no somatic component, and you have in hand any material components or focuses you might need.

Retrieve a Spell Component: You can produce a spell component from your pouch while grappling by using a full-round action. Doing so does not require a successful grapple check.

To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any). Additionally, you must concentrate to cast a spell—and it’s hard to concentrate in the heat of battle. (See below for details.)

Grappling or Pinned: The only spells you can cast while grappling or pinned are those without somatic components and whose material components (if any) you have in hand. Even so, you must make a Concentration check (DC 20 + the level of the spell you’re casting) or lose the spell.

There's also a bunch of situational evidence:

If the new form is capable of speech, you can communicate normally. You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form, but the new form must be able to speak intelligibly (that is, speak a language) to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components.

If you need merely have material components on your person, you shouldn't expect need to be capable of fine manipulation, but you explicitly do, although MM 315 has this exception for certain spellcasting creatures:

A spellcasting creature that lacks hands or arms can provide any somatic component a spell might require by moving its body. Such a creature also does need material components for its spells. The creature can cast the spell by either touching the required component (but not if the component is in another creature’s possession) or having the required component on its person. Sometimes spellcasting creatures utilize the Eschew Materials feat to avoid fussing with noncostly components.

Also, PH 141 specifies that it's a free action to "Prepare spell components to cast a spell" ("Unless the component is an extremely large or awkward item (DM’s call)."), which implies that you have to do something with them, though it doesn't go into much detail.

[Thurbane]

Hmm, I may have been misremembering the part from spellcasting creatures without hands ("having the required component on its person") as being a general rule.

Thanks for looking into it for me.

[edit] I also found this in the Magic Overview section:

To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any). Additionally, you must concentrate to cast a spell.

While "manipulate" may not be a defined game term, the implication is fairly clear. Simply having the material component on your person wouldn't necessitate manipulation.

Also, the Ectoplasmic Cocoon power says:

The subject can execute purely mental actions (such as manifesting powers or casting spells with no verbal, somatic, or material components).

Again, implying that some kind of physical action is required for spells with Material Components.

Long story short, looks like my assumption was wrong, and my DM was right. [/edit]

[St Fan]

Q 431

Looking for a rules citation. My current DM is ruling that you must have material components in hand and a free hand to manipulate them to cast spells which require material components.

I was almost certain that simply having them on your person, such as in a spell component pouch, sufficed.

Am I wrong? If I'm not wrong, can I please have citations to present to my DM?

A 431
The rule citation can be found on the SRD, chapter "Magic Overview > Casting Spells":

To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any).

Emphasis mine. The "Combat > Actions in Combat" section further specifies that preparing a spell component for casting is a free action (unless said component is especially large and awkward).

Both clearly emphasize that the standard to cast a spell is to "manipulate" the material component, which clearly requires a free hand. Some spells further describe what need to be done with the component (spider climb or identify, for example, require to eat/drink them).

Some ways exist to allow casting with the component still in the pouch (for example, the imbue familiar with spell ability spell), but overall tricks that remove material components altogether are favored.

[Thurbane]

Questions about Favored Souls and Drake-Helms:

Q 432a

Does a Favored Soul with Southern Magician count as a "spontaneous arcane spellcaster" for reqs?

Q 432b

Can a Favored Soul make a UMD check to emulate being a "spontaneous arcane spellcaster" for reqs?

Q 432c

Assuming a favored Soul can somehow meet the item reqs, the item grants "an extra arcane spell known"; is there any way a Favored Soul can utilise this spell, using Southern Magician or UMD?

[Troacctid]

Questions about Favored Souls and Drake-Helms:

Q 432a

Does a Favored Soul with Southern Magician count as a "spontaneous arcane spellcaster" for reqs?

Q 432b

Can a Favored Soul make a UMD check to emulate being a "spontaneous arcane spellcaster" for reqs?

Q 432c

Assuming a favored Soul can somehow meet the item reqs, the item grants "an extra arcane spell known"; is there any way a Favored Soul can utilise this spell, using Southern Magician or UMD?

Here's the relevant text from the UMD skill.

Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature.

As you can see, this lets you emulate a class feature for the purpose of an item's activation. How is a drake-helm activated?

A drake-helm provides its benefit whenever you wear it. You can change the spell within a Siberys dragonshard by casting a spell into it (see below). If you’re wearing a drake-helm, you can attach or remove a dragonshard as a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity. Others cannot remove the dragonshards.

By either casting a spell into it or swapping the dragonshard around. Which means you could only emulate arcane spellcasting for this purpose, not for the rest of the item's functions.

So, the more general answer is:
a. No, because Southern Magician doesn't affect the spell's power source
b. Depends on the item
c. Not using either of those, no

[reddir]

Q433

Assuming the campaign uses the random EL-based treasure tables from the 3.5 Hypertext SRD, should the characters also be able to take whatever the corpses have to offer (ex, armor, weapons, clothes, hide, meat, etc)? Is there RAW on this? Is there other guidance on this?

[Thurbane]

A 433 partial

The below quote would indicate to me, at least, that a creature's gear etc. do count towards its treasure (although I can see reading as the opposite):

Treasure
This line reflects how much wealth the creature owns and refers to Table 3–5: Treasure on page 52 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide. In most cases, a creature keeps valuables in its home or lair and has no treasure with it when it travels. Intelligent creatures that own useful, portable treasure (such as magic items) tend to carry and use these, leaving bulky items at home. See the glossary for more details on using the Treasure line of each monster entry.

For body parts, meat etc. unless these have a listed value, I would say they do not count towards treasure.

A Redcap, for instance, has this as its treasure line: "1/2 coins only (plus 1 redcap tooth)"

Conversely, a Giant Eagle's treasure line says "None", but they may have eggs in their nest worth 2,500 gp each.

[edit] I would suggest reading the DMG section on treasure (some of which is not reprinted in the SRD). For instance, in the case of monsters with class levels, it specifies generating their gear and treasure separately. It also calls out that an encounter with a Wizard, you subtract the value of their spellbook and components from the treasure amount. Another section mentions that for NPCs, their gear should be the bulk of their treasure. [/edit]

I think the only real answer to this is "Ask your DM".

DM side note: when calculating for encounters at my own table, I do include the gear and such that monsters carry. This stops mattering so much at higher levels, but at lower levels a suit of armor alone can potentially be worth more than a creatures general treasure amount.

[Thurbane]

Q 434

Not RAW as such, but need help finding something. I recall a spell that caused a magical staff to sprout a one-charge "wand" of a spell that is contained in the staff. From memory it was a Druid spell, and I'm pretty sure it was from a FR splat book.

Does anyone know what I am referring to?

A 434

Was an online spell, The Hamagess' Staffsprout.

[Birchy]

[B]Q 365:[B]

Can a Divine Crusader use it's spellcasting feature to qualify for sovereign speaker?

[Venger]

A 435 Yes. ten characters

[Maat Mons]

Q366436: Let's say I apply the Vivacious Creature template to a Shrieker. (I'm planning a weird farm.) How does the "Intelligence is at least 3" effect of the template interact with the "Int -" of the base creature?

Edit: Dang it Birchy! You mislead me about what number we were on.

[Venger]

A 436 The int changes to 3.

[Buufreak]

Q437

What canon RAW ways are there to acquire druidic as a language without taking levels of druid?

[Venger]

A 437 I assume you mean knowing it permanently and not just temporarily using comprehend languages/ tongues/ etc.

1) Mind control a druid and make them teach you the language (which will make them fall.)

2) Learn it from a blighter, who all know druidic having been druids at some point.

3) Be a tibbit who have all languages available as bonus languages without the caveat that it can't be druidic like humans.

4) Take at least 4 levels of loremaster who can learn any language as a bonus language.

5) Take the epic polyglot feat which makes you fluent in all languages.

6) Learn druidic from someone who has used any of the above methods to learn druidic.

[Thurbane]

A 437 continued

7) Be a Hellbred who was a Druid before they were re-born (they all languages from their previous life).

8) Be a Dvati who, like Tibbits, can know any language as a bonus language, without the usual restriction of not learning secret languages.

[Thurbane]

Q 438

What happens with classes like Sha'ir or Savant, in regards to PrCs that have "+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class" or "+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class", in regards to advancing their base casting?

Does it work differently for each?

[Beni-Kujaku]

Q 438

What happens with classes like Sha'ir or Savant, in regards to PrCs that have "+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class" or "+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class", in regards to advancing their base casting?

Does it work differently for each?

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...9#post17020889
A438 : Unclear‚ but most probably only one level is gained‚ following the writing of Mystic Theurge.

[Troacctid]

A 437 I assume you mean knowing it permanently and not just temporarily using comprehend languages/ tongues/ etc.

1) Mind control a druid and make them teach you the language (which will make them fall.)

2) Learn it from a blighter, who all know druidic having been druids at some point.

3) Be a tibbit who have all languages available as bonus languages without the caveat that it can't be druidic like humans.

4) Take at least 4 levels of loremaster who can learn any language as a bonus language.

5) Take the epic polyglot feat which makes you fluent in all languages.

6) Learn druidic from someone who has used any of the above methods to learn druidic.

Druidic has an exception to the normal language rules: unlike other languages, it's limited to only druids. You've already tacitly accepted this by acknowledging that you can't simply learn it with Speak Language. The same restriction applies to any form of learning new languages. Exceptions carry the highest level of rules precedence, so any general or even specific effects that allow you to learn any language won't allow you to learn it unless they explicitly say it's an option. So, loremaster and tibbit don't work, and if they did, you wouldn't need them, because the language would already be available through the Speak Language skill. (The latter interpretation is, of course, a valid alternative reading of the RAW, but I'm guessing it's not a popular one.)

Furthermore, as far as I'm aware, there isn't any RAW mechanism for one character to teach a language to another character, which would mean you can't just learn it from a blighter, since, by RAW, nobody can learn any language from anybody. I mean, unless there's a rule I don't know about, which, in fairness, there could be.

[Vaern]

Q439
Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting reads:

The character can make as many attacks with his or her off-hand weapon as with his or her primary weapon, using the same base attack bonus. The character still takes the normal penalties for fighting with two weapons.

If an epic monk was to use flurry of blows in conjunction with PTWF, does she gain an additional off-hand attack from PTWF for each of the extra attacks granted by flurry? These are attacks made with a primary weapon, so PTWF should apply an additional off-hand attack to them, right?

[OrbanSirgen]

Q440. Does the Aptitude weapon enhancement apply to all weapon feats or just those with effects similar to the examples Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization? For example, would it be eligible for the Lightning Mace feat?

[Thurbane]

Q440. Does the Aptitude weapon enhancement apply to all weapon feats or just those with effects similar to the examples Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization? For example, would it be eligible for the Lightning Mace feat?

A 440

There does not seem to be a consensus for this under RAW. There are compelling arguments for reading it either way, and has been debated since the release of ToB.

Best answer is "Ask your DM".

[Beni-Kujaku]

Q439
Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting reads:


If an epic monk was to use flurry of blows in conjunction with PTWF, does she gain an additional off-hand attack from PTWF for each of the extra attacks granted by flurry? These are attacks made with a primary weapon, so PTWF should apply an additional off-hand attack to them, right?

A 439 Flurry of blows doesn't specify that the bonus attacks are made with the primary hand. You can just use X more attacks in the round. PTWF has no influence on that, no more than regular TWF would allow you to add one flurry of blow attack with each hand.

[bekeleven]

A439

The Monk class states:

There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed.

Therefore, regardless of which physical hand you strike with, by RAW you can't two-weapon fight with Unarmed Strike/Unarmed Strike. You can do so with Unarmed Strike and a monk weapon.

[loky1109]

A439

The Monk class states:

Therefore, regardless of which physical hand you strike with, by RAW you can't two-weapon fight with Unarmed Strike/Unarmed Strike. You can do so with Unarmed Strike and a monk weapon.

And you can replace any monk weapon attack with Unarmed Strike. Plus, FAQ unequivocally allows TWF with US.

[Troacctid]

A439

The Monk class states:

Therefore, regardless of which physical hand you strike with, by RAW you can't two-weapon fight with Unarmed Strike/Unarmed Strike. You can do so with Unarmed Strike and a monk weapon.

Presumably our TWF monk is using weapons rather than fists in her flurry for this reason.

[Thurbane]

Q 441

Do the rules ever state (or even imply) how long the levelling up process takes?

For the purposes of early entry using temporary measure (bard music to add extra HD etc.), there seems to be an assumption that you must keep your temporary qualifiers for 24 hours or more - but what is this based on?

[Venger]

A 441 There is no text saying there is any minimum time it takes. It can happen instantaneously once you cross the xp threshold
unless you want to delay it for crafting or something. You do not need to keep anything for 24 hours.

[Troacctid]

Q 441

Do the rules ever state (or even imply) how long the levelling up process takes?

For the purposes of early entry using temporary measure (bard music to add extra HD etc.), there seems to be an assumption that you must keep your temporary qualifiers for 24 hours or more - but what is this based on?

There is a variant rule (DMG 198) that requires downtime, training, and/or tutelage in order to gain the benefits of a level-up. If you're not using that variant, then no downtime is required; characters are assumed to have been practicing and studying the techniques of their new level offscreen here and there throughout the whole previous level (DMG 197). In this case, leveling up typically happens between sessions (DMG 36, 58).

If we presume that your buff must be in effect for the entire duration of the leveling process, then this means you may need it either for several weeks, several days, or the entire previous level. You can ask your DM for more clarification.

[Twurps]

Q 442

If I'm the target of a 'Still' and 'Silent' mind-effecting spell such as suggestion. Do I know I'm being targeted? Do I know by who? Does this answer change whether I make or fail my will-save?

[Khedrac]

A 442 You always know if you succeed on a will save. If you fail a save you may know - it depends on the spell in question.