Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #36: The Triple Dozen

[Troacctid]

Q 619

Let's say I DM a campaign and also have a PC in the party, which I plan to use as a traitor later in the campaign. After several sessions I set out to follow through with the character's betrayal.

I then wish to cast Hold Person, or any other harmful/hindering spell on one of the party members, but tell him beforehand that I'm going to heal/buff/cast whatever beneficial spell on him. Does he get to make a will save, or would he automatically fail it because he believes it to be some other spell?

In addition to the previous answers, harmless spells offer no saving throw unless the target consciously chooses to resist, while non-harmless spells offer a saving throw unless the target consciously chooses to waive it. So it's not enough to convince them that the spell is something else—they will still attempt the saving throw by default. You have to include some sort of "Make sure you drop your guard and don't resist the effect" as well.

[Thurbane]

Q 620

The Zhentarim Skymage PrC (LoD p.102) has "Bonus scrolls, flying feat, Craft Wand" listed in the table as its 2nd level class abilities.

No mention is made of Craft Wand in the text. Was this updated in errata, or is it generally just accepted you get Craft Wand as a bonus feat?

[H_H_F_F]

A 620
AFAICT, this was not fixed. Pure RAW, no craft wand - though I assume most DMs would allow it.

[Khedrac]

A 619 Additional - Yes, the party get saving throws.
There is the factor that most buff/healing spells have an entry that says something like "Will half (harmless)" or ""Will negates (harmless).
This means that in practice one needs to choose to make a saving throw against these spells - so if one has the spellcraft and doesn't want the boost one can make a save (I had a character's delay death fail because the giant sorcerer we were fighting didn't want to be defeated alive by puny humans etc.).

Harmful spells (nearly) always default to having a save so one has to choose not to make one.

A good example is the cure X wounds line of spells for which living creatures do not need to save but undead do - and they automatically get a save regardless of whether the caster knows they are undead and regardless of whether they know which spell is being cast. This shows how the need to make a save is not determined by thinking that the spell is "harmless" or "hostile".

With all of these examples in hand ruling that the party don't get saving throws "because they were expecting a heal spell" is patently unfair and contrary to how the system works except in very rare cases. There are cases where this applies, notably asking someone to drop their spell resistance so you can heal them, and there are games where this tactic very much works as healing spells tend to get resisted unless the target is asked to accept the spell (e.g. RuneQuest) but D&D is not one of those games unless the spells involved specifically state they work that way.

To make this run the way you would like you need to add a house-rule that characters have to state their willingness to not have to save against friendly spells - which could kill someone in need of a delay death or a close wounds spell while flat-footed - they cannot act to accept the spell even if the caster can act to save their life.

[Jervis]

Q621 What happens if you enchant a weapon made of shape sand with a weapon enhancement, say sizing, and then turn that shape sand into something else or just move too far away from it?

Q622 Can a Erudite with Heighten Power and a artificially boosted CL learn powers from another’s repertoire than are higher than he can normally manifest? Example a Erudite 3/wizard 10 with two instances of practiced manifester and heighten power. Could they learn a 3rd level powers from another person?

[loky1109]

Q621 What happens if you enchant a weapon made of shape sand with a weapon enhancement, say sizing, and then turn that shape sand into something else or just move too far away from it?

Waste of money. Weapon enchantments works, you know, on weapon. If you somehow enchant with it noweapon - it shouldn't work.

[Doctor Despair]

Q 623

How does flight work with incorporeal creatures?

Take, for example, a Telthor. They have poor flight equal to their land speed, so let's call that 30 for the sake of simplicity. Now, normally poor flight means:

• You must move at least 15 feet forward or be forced to land or fall at the end of your movement.
• You cannot hover.
• You cannot move backward or reverse.
• You can turn, at best, 45 degrees for every 5 feet of movement forward.
• You cannot turn in place.
• Your maximum up angle is also 45 degrees, at double movement cost.
• Your maximum down angle is also 45 degrees, at half movement cost.
• You must move 10 feet levelly before ascending or descending (unless you descent after a climb).

However, an incorporeal creature cannot fall. Immediately, this means there is no minimum forward speed and you can hover.

Does this mean you can turn 90 or even 180 degrees on the spot, as you are stationary and can't fall?

Presumably you still have your maximum up/down angle, right? And the 10-foot of level movement requirement?

[King of Nowhere]

Q624: is there some kind of arm wrap or similar thing that works as a shield and can be used by monks?

[Thurbane]

Q624: is there some kind of arm wrap or similar thing that works as a shield and can be used by monks?

A 624 partial

I was going to suggest Ward Cestus (A&EG), but that gives a bonus to AC on total defence, not a shield bonus.

Ring of Force Shield might work, but since it says "can be wielded by the wearer as if it were a heavy shield" may not be usable by Monks. It also says "This special creation has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance since it is weightless and encumbrance-free." so maybe ask your DM?

[Thurbane]

Q 625

Does using a Ring of Force Shield allow the hand with the "shield" active to be used for other things, such as wielding a two-handed weapon?

An iron band, this simple ring generates a shield-sized (and shield-shaped) wall of force that stays with the ring and can be wielded by the wearer as if it were a heavy shield (+2 AC). This special creation has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance since it is weightless and encumbrance-free. It can be activated and deactivated at will as a free action.

Many elite Dhakaani soldiers used rings of force shield so they could wield two-handed weapons.

Does the shield of force created by the ring of force shield (DMG 232) require a free hand to use, or can I use it when wielding two weapons or a two-handed weapon?
The item is silent on the issue, so the Sage believes it appropriate to assume that the ring’s shield functions just like a normal heavy shield (except for the lack of armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance). Thus, it requires a free hand to gain the shield’s benefit.
Of course, a character wielding a weapon in that hand could activate the ring after making his attacks for the round (thus gaining its benefit while enemies attack) and deactivate it at the start of his next turn (allowing attacks with that hand). While you wouldn’t be able to use the shield hand to make attacks of opportunity while the shield was active, you’d otherwise be nearly as effectively protected as if the shield were active continuously

[danielxcutter]

Q626

Flyby Attack states that "When flying, the creature can take a move action (including a dive) and another standard action at any point during the move." Does this mean that a flying creature with this feat couldn't fly back up after making a dive?

Q627

Is Ride-by Attack required to attack from the back of your flying mount at the same time as it makes a Flyby Attack?

[Venger]

A 626No. You can take a move action. One of the things you may do with this move action is dive, but you can do other things if you want to, including going back up (subject to whatever limitations your maneuverability allows, of course)

A627Short answer: no. Longer answer: even if you had rideby attack, you would still not technically be able to do this by RAW.

Mounted combat is really messed up and doesn't work by strict RAW. This is kind of a complicated question to answer. Theoretically, rider and mount have their own sets of actions (and separate initiative counts, for that matter) and act separately from one another. That means if your mount's init is higher than the rider's, the mount would move and attack or whatever else it does and then when it got around to the rider's turn, they would have a round's worth of actions to do stuff with.

In practice, the mount is usually said to move and attack (or whatever) on the rider's turn and the rider can attack concurrently. If a mount used flyby attack, the rider couldn't attack during the flyby attack unless they readied an action or similar because you're not normally allowed to butt in during someone else's init unless you're making an aoo or something. Basically riders move mounts freely within the limits of their speed on the riders' turn.

[St Fan]

Q 628

The rules for casting a spell in combat includes making a concentration check if you are damaged or distracted by a spell.

A) Does an interfering/distracting effect applies only if a saving throw is failed? If a spell has no effect on a successful saving throw, does the targeted caster need not make any concentration check?

B) From my reading, there can only be one concentration check by spell hitting the caster, am I correct?

C) What if, however, the spell both inflict damage AND has a separated distracting effect? Which one is used to determine the DC of the concentration check? Does the damage-based one take precedence, or is it the highest DC between the two effects that is taken in account?

For example, if a caster is hit by the cantrip sonic snap (does 1 point of sonic damage, plus deafen for 1 minute if Will save DC failed) while casting a spell. The save is either 11+level of the spell being cast (for the damage), or Save DC+level of the spell being cast (10 for a cantrip+casting stat modifier, thus likely higher) for the deafening ? Is it the later only if the saving throw is failed?

[Doctor Despair]

Q 629

Word Given Form from Tome of Magic provides total concealment from the opponent you designate with your Dodge feat. Total concealment should mean you automatically succeed on hide checks normally, as enemies do not have line of sight to you, but Word Given Form only provides total concealment against one enemy. There may be more than one enemy. As per the hide skill:

If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide.

If there are two enemies before you, one of whom you have total concealment from and one of whom you are completely exposed to, can you hide from the enemy with whom you have total concealment?

[Venger]

A 628a No. As noted on the table if a spell does not allow a save, you calculate its DC as though it did and use that. Regardless of whether you made the save versus the actual spell, you must make a separate concentration check at the save DC to avoid being distracted.

A 628b I'm not 100% sure what you're asking. Do you mean "does a distracting spell only trigger a single concentration check?" or something else?

A 628c A spell either deals damage or it does not deal damage. Sonic snap is a damaging spell, so it is 10+ the damage dealt. If you make the save against sonic snap and take 0 damage form it, you save vs dc 10. If you failed it, it would be 11.

A 629 No.

[Elves]

Q 630 - how does a pyrohydra's breath weapon work

These reddish hydras can breathe jets of fire. All heads breathe once every 1d4 rounds. Each jet deals 3d6 points of fire damage per head.

What does this mean?

a) the hydra creates a single jet with a single cooldown that deals 3d6 per head -- eg, 12 headed hydra deals 36d6
--> but "each jet" implies multiple jets

b) each head breathes its own jet that deals 3d6 damage per head the hydra has, but the breaths are on a single cooldown and are used together
b1. and the overlapping effects rule means their damage doesn't stack if they overlap
b2. and the overlapping effects rule doesn't apply
--> this can't be it because the damage would be overwhelming

c) each head breathes its own jet, and each breath is on a separate cooldown
c1. and each breath must be used as a separate standard action
c2. and each breath can be used in place of that head's bite
c3. and the breaths can be used together, but only the breaths currently available can be used at once

[Venger]

A 630 b is the correct interpretation. They function together as a unit on a single cooldown. e.g. if it has 5 heads, it deals 15d6 fire damage. There's a reason this is one of the monsters pretty much everyone agrees this monster is overpowered.

If it was some involved process like a beholder's eye stalks where each head functioned individually, it would specify this.

What are these overlapping effect rules you're referring to? Are you referring to a spell effect being cast multiple times? This doesn't apply to being in the aoe for multiple breath weapons.

[Debatra]

b2. and the overlapping effects rule doesn't apply
--> this can't be it because the damage would be overwhelming

They probably meant for it to be 3d6 damage per head instead of 3d6 damage per head per jet, but that's RAW silliness for you.

[Elves]

A 630 b is the correct interpretation. They function together as a unit on a single cooldown. e.g. if it has 5 heads, it deals 15d6 fire damage.

Yeah I got that much. The question is whether only one jet is produced when it breathes, or multiple jets: "Each jet deals 3d6 points of fire damage per head" implies that there's more than one jet.

What are these overlapping effect rules you're referring to? Are you referring to a spell effect being cast multiple times? This doesn't apply to being in the aoe for multiple breath weapons.

That's true, looks like that rule is for spells only. That makes reading B nonviable because it could then breathe 6 overlapping jets for stacking damage (3d6 x number of heads x 1 jet per head).

So I'm not sure how to run it

[danielxcutter]

Q631

If an ooze takes a template that changes its type, would it lose all ooze traits but gain all the traits of the new type? For example, would it lose blindsight but gain darkvision if it was turned into an aberration?

Q632

If a formerly blind creature gains darkvision through a template, can it still see normally even if it's not dark?

[Elves]

A 631

templated creatures have features of orig type and traits of new type unless noted otherwise (you can see this division here for example). - Improving Monsters, SRD


630 cont

this from multiheaded template (SS), which does have a pyro- and cryo- option, could be instructive:

If the base creature has a breathweapon, the extra heads also have breath weapons. All weapons activate on the same round but can aim in differ-ent directions.

That suggests there are in fact multiple jets (reading B). I think you just have to rule that they don't stack damage for overlapping, or else the damage is ridiculous (a 5 headed pyrohydra could stack 75d6 damage, which is clearly not RAI). But RAW, since as Venger pointed out the area overlap rule is limited to spells, they probably do...sigh

[Venger]

A 631 Yes. Yes.
A 632 If its blindness was due to an old type which it shucked by gaining this template, yes. Otherwise, no.

[Khedrac]

A 632 additional Depends what you mean by "normally". Darkvision is black-and-white vision to the stated range and is not affected by any light condition that does not specifically state that it interferes with darkvision (which some do).

So, if you mean "Normally for a non-blind creature of it's type" then "No - it has darkvision not normal vision"; but if you mean "Normally for a creature with darkvision" then yes.

As Venger says, all of this being subject to the restriction that some forms of blindness will not be overcome by gaining darkvision like this.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Q633: If you've got two feats or abilities that change your type, such as Human Heritage and Dragonwrought Kobold, how do those interact? Do you count as both a humanoid (human) and a dragon at the same time?

[Debatra]

A 633

Whichever was acquired last overwrites the others.

Also, while I'm not sure if your example was specifically chosen or just off the cuff, but you can't actually have both Human Heritage and Dragonwrought, as they each require you to be different races when taking them, not just Creature Types.

[Doctor Despair]

W.r.t. A 633

As far as I know, the only way to do that would be:

1. Start Changeling with a humanoid hitdie. Take Racial Emulation.

2. Exchange your level 1 hitdie for a level in Half-Elf Paragon. Use the bonus feat for Dragonwrought (assuming your DM lets you change the race you're emulating between selecting Paragon and getting the class features).

3. Emulate some human-descended race again. Lose the benefits of Dragonwrought. Take Human Heritage at level 3 as normal.

4. Emulate a Kobold again to re-qualify for Dragonwrought. Use Human Heritage to self-qualify you as a humanoid with the human subtype.

As pointed out below, Human Heritage is a first-level-only feat. I overlooked that.

[Debatra]

Even if that setup somehow worked, Human Heritage is also a "first-level only" feat. Maybe if you were allowed Flaws.

[Doctor Despair]

Q634

Exalted Wild Shape reads:

You can use your wild shape ability to turn yourself into a blink dog, giant eagle, giant owl, pegasus, or unicorn. You can also turn into a celestial version of any animal you could normally transform into. (At the DM's discretion, other magical beast forms might be available to you. In general, only creatures of CR 3 or lower are possible.) You gain the extraordinary and supernatural abilities of the creature. This ability counts as a use of your wild shape ability and functions the same way.

The parenthetical lines are confusing for me. Are they saying that:

A. The DM can add additional magical beasts to the benefits of the feat. Also, on an unrelated note, you can only add the celestial template to animals you can transform into if they are CR 3 or lower.

or

B. The DM can add additional magical beasts to the benefits of the feat. Whether you are using this feat to transform into a magical beast or a celestial animal, the CR of the creature chosen must be 3 or lower.

[Troacctid]

Q634

Exalted Wild Shape reads:



The parenthetical lines are confusing for me. Are they saying that:

A. The DM can add additional magical beasts to the benefits of the feat. Also, on an unrelated note, you can only add the celestial template to animals you can transform into if they are CR 3 or lower.

or

B. The DM can add additional magical beasts to the benefits of the feat. Whether you are using this feat to transform into a magical beast or a celestial animal, the CR of the creature chosen must be 3 or lower.

Neither. It means the magical beasts the DM adds to the list should be CR 3 or lower.

[St Fan]

Q 635

A Dweomerkeeper using the Supernatural Spell class feature ignores all components of the spell concerned. It's generally accepted this includes unusual components such as a Truename check or a Dragonmark. However...

A) If the spell requires a Truename check, and its specific effects depends on how high was the result of the check, what happens when cast instead through Supernatural Spell? Is the minimum check result needed for the spell to work automatically assumed?

C) Similarly, if a spell requires a Dragonmark to be cast, and its effects depends on the power level of said mark (least, lesser, greater, or Syberys), what happen when cast instead through Supernatural Spell? Is a least Dragonmark assumed, or can the Dweomerkeeper pretty much emulate any level of Dragonmark?