Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #36: The Triple Dozen

[Troacctid]

Q 93

The spell description for Teleportation Circle suggests that only a rogue could Search for it. However, other non-SRD classes are given the ability to detect magical traps; does that mean they could detect a Teleportation Circle? What about a cleric using Find Traps?

This is a case of specific vs. general vs. exception. The text in the spell is actually a reminder of a general rule for the Search skill. When a class other than rogue grants itself trapfinding (or when a rogue ACF trades away trapfinding), it creates an exception to this general rule, and exceptions always take priority over general rules. Some DMs consider this particular interaction to be an example of a dysfunctional rule, claiming that according to the specific text of the spell, the trapfinding ability is irrelevant, and it cares specifically about the rogue class; I personally disagree with that, because regardless of what the spell's text says, the trapfinding ability still provides an exception to it, and exceptions take precedence over specific rules as well as general ones.

Find traps has a different wording than trapfinding: it allows you to find traps "just as a rogue can." So it works just fine as well.

In case you need more clarity, Rules Compendium updated the general rule in question, and it now references the trapfinding ability rather than the rogue class.

[Khedrac]

SRD section on lycanthropes, under Special Attacks.

Also MM1, p.176.

To expand, this is the section on Creating a Lycanthrope which lays it out clearly. The individual lycanthrope examples miss this section (not being spellcasters).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Q94: If you use shapeshifting magic (wild shape + Aberration Shape or one of the effects based on polymorph/metamorphosis) and take both Assume Supernatural Ability (Quickness) for the MMI's choker and ASA (Alternate Form) for phasm (also MMI) and you turn into a phasm, followed by using its alternate form to turn into a choker, do you count as a choker for ASA (Quickness)?

I...think you do, but I'm not 100% sure.

Q95: Do you still count as a phasm for Alternate Form?

Q96: And what are your stats like in the second form?

It might be a good way to turn into lots of critters using a single wild shape or polymorph/metamorphosis!

[YellowJohn]

Q97
Is a Spellscale's 'Blood-Quickening' ritual Ex, Sp or Su? Or none of the above?
Question behind the question: Would the Shapechange spell allow me to perform such a ritual?

[Khedrac]

A97 Since the race description does not specify the techical answer is "none of the above" though most of the abilities that are granted equate to feats and those abilities will usually be "Ex" (see feat descriptions for specific details).

As written shapechange would not grant the abilities.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Q97
Is a Spellscale's 'Blood-Quickening' ritual Ex, Sp or Su? Or none of the above?
Question behind the question: Would the Shapechange spell allow me to perform such a ritual?

A97: Any ability that isn't otherwise specified is (Na).

Natural Abilities
This category includes abilities a creature has because of its physical nature. Natural abilities are those not otherwise designated as extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like.

So, yes, you apparently do get access to the rituals.

[Debatra]

Q 98

Is there a default rule for if a creature has a Fly speed without a listed maneuverability?

[Afgncaap5]

Q 99:

Do Warlocks count as a spellcaster for the purposes of using Craft (Alchemy)? If so, where is that written?

[Thurbane]

Q 99:

Do Warlocks count as a spellcaster for the purposes of using Craft (Alchemy)? If so, where is that written?

A 099

Interesting question.

To make an item using Craft (alchemy), you must have alchemical equipment and be a spellcaster.

The sidebar on page 18 of Complete Arcane (Warlocks and Prestige Classes), advises that a Warlock's caster level counts as a req for PrCs, and that "+1 level of existing spellcasting class" advance Invocations. But it doesn't state for any other purpose that Warlocks count as Spellcasters, as such.

So by strictest RAW, no, they wouldn't qualify to craft alchemical items through Warlock levels alone.

Most DMs, however, would probably let this slide if you asked them, IMHO.

[Afgncaap5]

A 099Most DMs, however, would probably let this slide if you asked them, IMHO.

Definitely. I homebrew alchemy to not require spellcasting in my games. However, I noticed that Artificers *did* have wording that permitted them to use alchemy, so I wondered if I'd just missed similarly permissive wording for the Warlock somewhere.

[Thurbane]

Q 100 a

The War Hulk PrC has the No Time to Think feature, which means you are treated as having 0 ranks in all Int, Wis and Cha based skills (except Intimidate). Am I correct in assuming this means you may not use any of those skills if they are trained only, even if you have ranks in them?

Q 100 b

How does No Time to Think interact with the Jack of All Trades feat, which gives a virtual 1/2 rank in all skills?

[King of Nowhere]

Q101: if you have multiple castings of nondetections, possibly by several different people, and/or several pieces of equipment with the masking property, does it mean that to scry you a spellcaster has to beat all the various nondetections? or only one does apply?

[Troacctid]

Q101: if you have multiple castings of nondetections, possibly by several different people, and/or several pieces of equipment with the masking property, does it mean that to scry you a spellcaster has to beat all the various nondetections? or only one does apply?

This is a case of the same spell multiple times in different strengths. Only the most powerful one applies. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverv...tackingEffects

[St Fan]

Q 102

The Sickening Strike and Terrifying Strike ambush feats (Drow of the Underdark) can induce conditions that involve a saving throw penalty (sickened and shaken, respectively) for 1 round.

If the sneak attack causing the effects of the ambush feat(s) is an unarmed strike that also carries another special effect requiring a saving throw (like a Stunning Fist attack or a touch spell whose caster was holding the charge), does said saving throw suffer from the penalties of the conditions? Or would it only count for the next attack?

In other words, in which order are the ambush feats and special attack applied?

Q 103

The wracking touch spell (Complete Adventurer & Spell Compendium) is a touch spell with the following effect:

You lay your hand upon a creature and deal 1d6 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +10). In addition, if you have the sneak attack ability, you also deal sneak attack damage to the affected creature unless the creature is immune to extra damage from critical hits. The creature still takes the spell damage even if it does not take the sneak attack damage. Unlike a normal use of sneak attack, your target need not be flanked or denied its Dexterity bonus to take sneak attack damage from this spell.

A) The spell has "Fortitude half" as a saving throw. Does a successful saving throw only reduce by half the 1d6+1/level damage, or does it also halve the sneak attack damage?

B) If the caster holds the charge, and then makes an unarmed strike in the correct conditions to cause sneak attack damage on a creature not immune, does he inflict sneak attack damage twice? (Once for the unarmed strike itself, and once from the wracking touch spell going off?)

C) Same question as B) if a wracking touch spell is cast on a spell-storing weapon, and released in a situation where the weapon also inflicts sneak attack damage.

D) And by the way, still in the case of a spell-storing weapon with a wracking touch spell, is the sneak attack damage dependent on the caster's ability, or on the wielder's (if they aren't the same person)?

[Thurbane]

Q 104

If I am full-attacking with a melee weapon, and also deliver a Snap Kick using that feat as part of the attack, can I designate the kick as a Stunning Fist attack, if I also have that feat?

[St Fan]

A 104

Yes. As described, "This attack is an unarmed attack that deals damage", so you can use it in conjunction with any special attack fitting alongside such an unarmed attack (Stunning Fist, non-lethal damage, sneak attack [+Ambush feats], discharging a touch spell you were holding the charge, etc.)

What you can't use as a snap kick are special attacks that don't inflict damage (disarm, trip, etc.)

[Bobur]

A103:A) Sneak attack dmg is never part of a spell's direct effect, it can only be triggered by it. (Usually ray attacks)
So the Fort SV only half the spells dmg not the SA dmg.

B) I would say yes. Each successful attack that is viable for SA (weapon hits, ranged attacks, or spells like rays...) count.
So if you had flurry of blows each hit counts. If the spell by itself can cause SA and you just hold it, it would still cause SA on release, as long as the condition hasn't changed.

C) Same logic as before: If it counts on its own it should still count later (storing(holding) as long as the situation and target are viable for SA.

D) Since the spell doesn't GIVE you sneak attack dmg or the ability itself, but only the trigger to use it, I would argue that the wielder of the weapon/attack has to be able to do SA DMG otherwise it doesnt do anything at all. The caster only gives you the spell, spell dmg/effect and the trigger option.

Edit: A different ruling below.

[Bobur]

Q105:
You need concealment to make a hide check. How does this work in magical darkness? (20%miss chance)
Can I just walk into the magical zone and make a hide check right in front of an enemy? or basically in plain sight as long as within the darkness?

B) Can I move at 1/2 speed after hiding within to get to an enemy in the darkness and use SA?

[Khedrac]

A 103 B Contention

The wracking touch spell (Complete Adventurer & Spell Compendium) is a touch spell with the following effect:
B) If the caster holds the charge, and then makes an unarmed strike in the correct conditions to cause sneak attack damage on a creature not immune, does he inflict sneak attack damage twice? (Once for the unarmed strike itself, and once from the wracking touch spell going off?)

B) I would say yes. Each successful attack that is viable for SA (weapon hits, ranged attacks, or spells like rays...) count.
So if you had flurry of blows each hit counts. If the spell by itself can cause SA and you just hold it, it would still cause SA on release, as long as the condition hasn't changed.

I admit I cannot remember the location of the rule, but one can only trigger sneak attack (or similar) once per attack roll. Thus if you use one attack roll to deliver two effects (here unarmed strike and held charge spell) only one instance of sneak attack damage can result.

[Troacctid]

Q105:
You need concealment to make a hide check. How does this work in magical darkness? (20%miss chance)
Can I just walk into the magical zone and make a hide check right in front of an enemy? or basically in plain sight as long as within the darkness?

B) Can I move at 1/2 speed after hiding within to get to an enemy in the darkness and use SA?

A. In order to hide, you need cover or concealment, and you cannot be observed. Magical darkness fulfills the first criterion, but not the second. So, in this scenario, unless you had the Hide in Plain Sight ability to allow you to hide even while observed, you would need to first distract any observers with Bluff.
B. Yes, provided you succeed on an additional Hide check made at a -5 penalty for each 5 feet of open space between you and the target (RC 92), but also, in this situation, no, because if they're in the darkness too, they have concealment, and you can't sneak attack a target that has concealment against you.

[Bobur]

A. In order to hide, you need cover or concealment, and you cannot be observed. Magical darkness fulfills the first criterion, but not the second. So, in this scenario, unless you had the Hide in Plain Sight ability to allow you to hide even while observed, you would need to first distract any observers with Bluff.
B. Yes, provided you succeed on an additional Hide check made at a -5 penalty for each 5 feet of open space between you and the target (RC 92), but also, in this situation, no, because if they're in the darkness too, they have concealment, and you can't sneak attack a target that has concealment against you.

Whait what? I can't SA a target that has concealment? Now I really have to know where that rule is.
Edit: Nvm, I found it in the basic rogue texts. Man, that is going to cause problems...

[St Fan]

Q 106

Okay, this is a follow-up to my previous question, because it really needs to be cleared up.

A) First of all, where can you find more extensive/complete rules about holding the charge of a touch spell beyond the SRD? I know there are fuller rules for weaponlike spells on the Complete Arcane, but it doesn't cover holding the charge in detail.

B) The SRD specifies that making a touch attack while holding the charge of a damaging spell might cause a critical hit and/or sneak attack damage, following the full aforementioned rules for weaponlike spells, right?

C) The same SRD had that you can also make a normal unarmed strike or natural attack while holding the charge, and "If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge."

In this case, if the unarmed strike/natural attack is a critical hit and/or sneak attack, the extra damage (and damage type) are normal for this attack, but what about the discharged spell? It seems to be implied that you can't have twice a critical hit and/or sneak attack on the same attack, and so the discharged spell don't count anymore as a weaponlike spell at all...

[Khedrac]

Q 106

Okay, this is a follow-up to my previous question, because it really needs to be cleared up.

A) First of all, where can you find more extensive/complete rules about holding the charge of a touch spell beyond the SRD? I know there are fuller rules for weaponlike spells on the Complete Arcane, but it doesn't cover holding the charge in detail.

B) The SRD specifies that making a touch attack while holding the charge of a damaging spell might cause a critical hit and/or sneak attack damage, following the full aforementioned rules for weaponlike spells, right?

C) The same SRD had that you can also make a normal unarmed strike or natural attack while holding the charge, and "If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge."

In this case, if the unarmed strike/natural attack is a critical hit and/or sneak attack, the extra damage (and damage type) are normal for this attack, but what about the discharged spell? It seems to be implied that you can't have twice a critical hit and/or sneak attack on the same attack, and so the discharged spell don't count anymore as a weaponlike spell at all...

Interesting. In response to this I re-checked my PHB and then turned to the Rules Compendium, a book I don't know that well and normally forget I have access to.

Reading the PHB there is no suggestion that you can use an unarmed strike to deliver a held charge touch spell - but then there is also nothing to say that you cannot. However:

The following feats can be chosen to enhance the performance of weaponlike spells in combat.
...
Improved Unarmed Strike: You can add the damage of your unarmed strike to the damage of a touch spell by delivering the spell as a regular melee attack instead of a melee touch attack. The defender gets the full benefit of armor and shield, but if the attack hits, the unarmed strike deals normal damage over and above any damage the spell deals as it’s discharged. If the unarmed strike misses, then the spell isn’t discharged. If the unarmed strike scores a critical hit, damage from the spell isn’t multiplied.

So far as I can tell, the implication here is that if you use the held charge as a rider on another attack, it doesn't gain any attack adjustments, but beyond what is printed it's pretty much all DM's call.
There may be some other rules tucked in odd places, but they are not going to be easy to find.

So: A106
A Rules Compendium
B Correct
C See above, and correct, the spell cannot critical in this case.

[St Fan]

Very comprehensive response, thank you Khedrac.

Q 107
Still around the same theme... the chill touch spell seems to work like most touch-attacks weaponlike spells, but it has the particularity of not lasting for just one touch, but 1 touch attack by level. So...

A) Its duration is stated as "instantaneous", which is a bit ambiguous. My guess is that it concerns only the effects of one touch, i.e. the negative damage and strength damage can't be dispelled, but healed normally, correct? Otherwise, there's no way you can make 1 attack/level if the spell immediately ends.

B) Although the delivery mechanism is very likely to be similar to a spell you're holding the charge, it isn't spelled outright. So, unlike with a spell you're holding the charge, can you cast another spell without disrupting the remaining chill touch attacks you have?

C) If the answer to B) is yes, does that mean this spell can last indefinitely (in theory) until you've expended all attacks (unless hit with dispel magic)?

D) I thought of that one as obvious so I wasn't about to ask, but I can't find it clearly spelled out either... if you have more than one attack per round, you can make multiple touch attacks with chill touch during a full-attack action, right? Nothing restrict you to it once a round...

[YellowJohn]

Q108
A large (or larger) creature stands partially in and partially out of an Antimagic Field. Can it use (Su) abilities?

[Powerdork]

Q108
A large (or larger) creature stands partially in and partially out of an Antimagic Field. Can it use (Su) abilities?

A108

"Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the barrier, any part of it that lies outside the barrier is unaffected by the field."

I imagine this line suggests that the barrier created by antimagic field is, in fact, a barrier, and creatures and projectiles entering the field are specifically allowed to by an earlier line of the spell. That's based on a reading that emphasizes this line, however. For a normal reading of the spell, though, I think this just means "if you're large enough to be both inside and outside, part of you is affected (and it's the part inside)".

The rest is up to DM adjudication, as ever.

[Eladrinblade]

Q 109

Do you threaten squares while prone?

[Debatra]

A 109 Yes.

[Elves]

Q 110
RHD base attack bonus doesn't have the same limit as BAB from class levels. Does the same apply to base save bonus from RHD?

[Troacctid]

Very comprehensive response, thank you Khedrac.

Q 107
Still around the same theme... the chill touch spell seems to work like most touch-attacks weaponlike spells, but it has the particularity of not lasting for just one touch, but 1 touch attack by level. So...

A) Its duration is stated as "instantaneous", which is a bit ambiguous. My guess is that it concerns only the effects of one touch, i.e. the negative damage and strength damage can't be dispelled, but healed normally, correct? Otherwise, there's no way you can make 1 attack/level if the spell immediately ends.

B) Although the delivery mechanism is very likely to be similar to a spell you're holding the charge, it isn't spelled outright. So, unlike with a spell you're holding the charge, can you cast another spell without disrupting the remaining chill touch attacks you have?

C) If the answer to B) is yes, does that mean this spell can last indefinitely (in theory) until you've expended all attacks (unless hit with dispel magic)?

D) I thought of that one as obvious so I wasn't about to ask, but I can't find it clearly spelled out either... if you have more than one attack per round, you can make multiple touch attacks with chill touch during a full-attack action, right? Nothing restrict you to it once a round...

A) It's not ambiguous. It means you make all the attacks immediately, as part of the spell's casting.

Casting time takes precedence over normal rules for attacks, unless a spell’s description says otherwise. If a spell allows its caster to make multiple attacks and has a casting time of 1 standard action, all those attacks occur during that standard action. The caster uses the highest applicable attack bonus for each attack in such a case.

B) You cannot hold the charge for chill touch.

If the spell allows you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell, you can't hold the charge—you must touch all targets of the spell in the same turn that you finish casting the spell.

C) See above.
D) See above.