3.5: Gestalt Primordial Death Giant//Dread Necromancer help

[Adamantrue]

For the record, the PCs will be 15th level Gestalt (Tier 3 & below), with a 13th level Gestalt cohort each. The only Turning will be a Paladin, no Cleric.

The big bad I'm working on for a game is going to be (as the title says) a gestalt Death Giant (MM3). I'm tossing 23 levels of Dread Necromancer (HoH) on the other side of the HD, and adding the Primordial template (SoX) to boost the Charisma.

This creature is supposed to represent a sort of God of Death, advancing into a bay to conquer a Port Town with a horde of undead.

I've stripped off the Feats & Skills to start fresh, and going with a 36 Point Buy. Str 26, Dex 16, Con 22, Int 20, Wis 24, Cha 35. This includes level increases, but not Ability Boosters.

Feats: 7 + 2 Epic + Craft Wondrous Item
So, my initial thoughts were Divine Might, Divine Vigor, Improved Bull Rush, Item Familiar, Knockback, Power Attack, Profane Leechlife, Undead Mastery, and Zone of Animation (I might squeeze in Combat Reflexes & Hold the Line). Not sure if all of that is legal, or if there are some goodies I really should consider as an alternative.

Now, I've tried looking at some of the Handbooks out there, but the ones I've found aren't exactly straightforward to me. If you can suggest a few that are fairly clear, I could use the share. Otherwise, some guidance would be nice.

Rebuked/Commanded Undead: 230 HD of Undead, max HD 11
A few Mummified Template creatures would be my default, but I'm having trouble deciding if I want to also have lots of smaller stuff (say, 9 HD and below), or try and max out what I can grab here. I'd also like some suggestions for "lieutenants" that create Spawn under their control, or can otherwise control more Undead. This is the only place where I could really grab some variety.

Animated Dead: 368 HD of Undead
My go-to choices would be grabbing a few hydras, but I'd like to play around with some of the variant Skeletons and Zombies from Libris Mortis. I'd also like to mix in some Karnnathi Skeletons and Zombies into the mix for the purposes of sheer numbers. But I haven't found any rules for any of the above concerning the GP/XP costs or spell requirements.

Also, do Awakened Skeletons/Zombies stay controlled under Animate Dead by RAW, or do I gotta switch to Rebuke/Command or the like?

[Buddy76]

I suggest you take a single level dip into cleric and take the Deathbound domain (Spell Compendium, page 272) which increases the amount of undead you can create with a single animate dead spell to 3 times your caster level. Next take a single level of Doomdreamer (from Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil), since the character has int 20, you're able to snatch Kiss of Undeath Secret at Doomdreamer 1, doubling your character level for rebuking or commanding undead.

Also, maybe, have a look at the Gravewyrm. It can command undead at will as a 60th level Cleric. Now, at 60HD it's not avaiable to this character as a Dragon Cohort, but you could figure an alternate way for the Deathgiant to control it (maybe an artifact?). You can even advance it to Gargantuan and use it as a mount. Of course, this monster might too powerful for a party of 15th level gestalted tier 3s (or below) but it's a cool idea.

I hope some of this was of help.

[Adamantrue]

I suggest you take a single level dip into cleric and take the Deathbound domain (Spell Compendium, page 272) which increases the amount of undead you can create with a single animate dead spell to 3 times your caster level. Next take a single level of Doomdreamer (from Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil), since the character has int 20, you're able to snatch Kiss of Undeath Secret at Doomdreamer 1, doubling your character level for rebuking or commanding undead.

I don't see any real need to create more Undead with a single casting. I don't see the character casting Animate Dead on the spot, more of something that already happened.

Doomdreamer may be a different story, as (the way I read it) it could grab 23 HD Undead to control. I have to see what kinds of hoops I'd have to jump through, though I don't want to give up Zone of Animation (I decided to use Cleric Epic progression & that Feat list).

Also, maybe, have a look at the Gravewyrm. It can command undead at will as a 60th level Cleric. Now, at 60HD it's not avaiable to this character as a Dragon Cohort, but you could figure an alternate way for the Deathgiant to control it (maybe an artifact?). You can even advance it to Gargantuan and use it as a mount. Of course, this monster might too powerful for a party of 15th level gestalted tier 3s (or below) but it's a cool idea.

NOPE! I want to intimidate my players, and slowly build toward a possible grand final battle. But I don't want to run the game long enough for them to face off against that with a fair chance of some satisfying ending.

[Oberron]

Yes you keep cobtrol of awaken undead nothing tells you that you don't (iirc).

Also for any undead self buffing or buffing undead take the fell energy spell. Its a really underlooked feat for buffing undead. Massive increase to go when used with desecrate spell and more. I wrote a pamphlet (not really a full handbook) here https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...ng-buff-undead

[Adamantrue]

Yes you keep cobtrol of awaken undead nothing tells you that you don't (iirc).

Minor tangent concerning War Trolls (MM3) as Undead...

Would an Awakened War Troll Zombie or a Mummified War Troll take damage from anything other than Acid attacks? Not sure how Undead treat the non-lethal damage caused by Regeneration...

[edit]

"A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability."

Nevermind.

[Adamantrue]

So, since I didn't get any answers concerning creating alternative Skeletons/Zombies with Animate Dead, these are the routes I'm going with...

Karrnathi Skeletons/Zombies
They can be created with a normal casting of Animate Dead, but only from Humans that were servants in life to the Death Giant (and possibly sacrificed themselves). Cost to create is 100gp each (75gp for the Onyx gem, another 25 for alchemical substances).

Libris Mortis Variants
Each +1 in CR (rounding up) requires that the Onyx Gem to be worth an additional 50gp, and can only be created on nights with a New Moon.

For example, a Karrnathi Skeleton (3 HD) were to be given the Fiery and Soldier options (+1 1/2 CR), the Onyx gem to create them would cost 175 gp (+ the 25 in alchemical substances, as per above).

A Five Headed Hydra Zombie (10 HD) with the Bloodthirsty, Fast, and Unkillable options (+2 1/2 CR) would require a gem worth 400 gp.

Does this seem to be in the right ballpark?

[Oberron]

So, since I didn't get any answers concerning creating alternative Skeletons/Zombies with Animate Dead, these are the routes I'm going with...

Karrnathi Skeletons/Zombies
They can be created with a normal casting of Animate Dead, but only from Humans that were servants in life to the Death Giant. Cost to create is 100gp each (75gp for the Onyx gem, another 25 for alchemical substances).

Libris Mortis Variants
Each +1 in CR (rounding up) requires a the Onyx Gem to be worth an additional 50gp, and can only be created on nights with a New Moon.

For example, a Karrnathi Skeleton (3 HD) were to be given the Fiery and Soldier options (+1 1/2 CR), the Onyx gem to create them would cost 175 gp (+ the 25 in alchemical substances, as per above).

A Five Headed Hydra Zombie (10 HD) with the Bloodthirsty, Fast, and Unkillable options (+2 1/2 CR) would require a gem worth 400 gp.

Does this seem to be in the right ballpark?

Its an "ask the Dm" (which you are it seems so doesn't matter) for creating alternative undead. Where are you getting each +1 crazy is another onyx gem? Have I missed something or is that homebrew?

What benefits does the karrnathi give?

And skeletons that have subtypes retain them so thats why fire giants make great skeletons because they are immune to cold and fire.

Also if you are wanting fast healing for your undead put a pocket full of black sand in their boots or whatever for 1d4 hp a round.

[Adamantrue]

Its an "ask the Dm" (which you are it seems so doesn't matter) for creating alternative undead. Where are you getting each +1 crazy is another onyx gem? Have I missed something or is that homebrew?

The abilities are from Libris Mortis. Skeleton options are on p162, the Zombie ones are on p173.

What benefits does the karrnathi give?

Karrnathi Skeletons and Zombies are from Eberron (ECS p272). Basically, they have 3 HD, Intelligence, some Weapon Proficiencies & related Feats. Otherwise, they're just Human Skeletons and Zombies.

Also if you are wanting fast healing for your undead put a pocket full of black sand in their boots or whatever for 1d4 hp a round.

The Unkillable ability from Libris Mortis gives Zombies Fast Healing 5 & Improved Toughness. Black Sand could be an additional boost, but doesn't stop the main benefit.

[ExLibrisMortis]

You could add two to five levels of Horned Harbinger for a nice +CHA to animate dead CL. Since you're already getting 9th-level spells, the lost spellcasting isn't so important. Throw in Practiced Spellcaster if you want to keep CLs above 20.