At what point does or will Elan's singing become more than a joke

[DreamCreator]

Hello, I had a thought while perusing one of my favorite sequences.

During the strip after Tarquin has ordered Roy and the OOTS party to be killed [#918].

On the 4th panel Haley says "Start singing to boost my damage..."

This to me was a strong reminder that there are technical boosts/buffs that happen when a bard sings.

This to me is just interesting to come up in this panel because almost nowhere else in OOTS is Elan's singing considered anything but a joke, or something to do so that he doesn't get in anyone's way during combat.

Or, when he has given dramatic speeches, it has generally had a less-than-positive effect on those listening.

I am visualizing now though, a point where Elan's singing as something motivational and empowering, becomes more of a tipping point element in one or more of the upcoming or final battles - boss battles if you will.

His level as a bard is higher, his character growth is large, and his acceptance as someone with a valuable contribution has become higher than ever.

Of course, this is true for all the characters.

But, despite his increased helpfulness in the last 200-300 strips, we mostly haven't seen him do anything particularly large in the way of turning the tides of battle, or negotiating key diplomatic elements (I know that these are relative concepts and feel free to cite times when he has)

So, a lot of this is going to say that I look forward to seeing how high/epic level bard powers and Elan's character development really shine in this last book/part of the story. Particularly, how the power of inspiration, song, and music can bring out abilities in oneself or one's companions.

And, for the record, my favorite sequence in OOTS that I'm referring to is the part that runs from about #899 to #936 "End of the Line".

The way the tension between Elan and Tarquin is drawn out to the point of Tarquin clinging to the side of the boat-ship is, in my opinion, some creative genius at it's finest. It's also been poignant to me recently that in the moments before Haley shoots her arrows at Tarquin's face in #899, Elan is speaking to him while holding his lute in somewhat of an aggressive-negotiator pose (as opposed to holding his rapier). To me this is a subtle indication that his greatest power and how he feels most centered and himself is still while holding or wielding an instrument.

I appreciate any thoughts on this idea of Elan as a more major sort of player. As of now we are on #1218 "Group Decision" where Elan was given a choice to make by Roy for the party, that could decide many things. I acknowledge that there has already been much discussion on how this is a large turning point.

With Gratitude.
DC

[dancrilis]

He uses it here (panel 7) to free Belkar from an illusion.

[mormon_soldier]

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0034.html
Elan's song lets Durkon hit a goblin.

But seeing it actually turn the tide would be awesome!

[InvisibleBison]

I think Elan being the decisive factor in a battle or other dramatic moment would run contrary to his character. Remember, the basis of his conflict with Tarquin was that Elan wanted to be a sidekick, not a protagonist. I think it would be very odd for Elan to abruptly abandon that role.

[DreamCreator]

He uses it here (panel 7) to free Belkar from an illusion.

True, that is the Song of Freedom Bard class ability I believe. This I would classify as most similar to casting. And, it certainly has an effect, it also isn't so dramatic as to turn the tide of a battle. It might be helpful in a battle context at some point, to maybe effect a mass of allies who have been dominated or otherwise plunged into illusion.

Elan's song lets Durkon hit a goblin.

But seeing it actually turn the tide would be awesome!

Thank you for showing me that! Yes that's true, and I also feel that this sequence falls more into the category of "humor" than using his abilities to drive the plot or be a major player in a conflict/battle, which is what I'm indicating would be really cool, and what you seem to agree with me would be awesome

I think Elan being the decisive factor in a battle or other dramatic moment would run contrary to his character. Remember, the basis of his conflict with Tarquin was that Elan wanted to be a sidekick, not a protagonist. I think it would be very odd for Elan to abruptly abandon that role.

Ah I love this! Great response.

I see your point, and I would respond that what you are saying is mostly true, in my perception. I don't think Elan necessarily *wants* to be a sidekick.

I don't think Elan would ever intentionally abandon any role that he sees he is supposed to play in the moment. As the Dashing Swordsman I think that is also a class feature, connected with arriving in the 'nick of time'.

I think Elan wants to fulfill his role the most effectively. And if that is being a sidekick, so be it, he is more than happy to be that.

And, I see the potential of Elan becoming a major player, because being a major player has never actually been his goal.

His goal is to be authentically himself. (which ultimately is the most powerful thing one can do).

We might think of it a bit like the saying: "Those most adequate to be leaders, are the ones who least want to be one." or "the ones most fit to hold power, are the ones least desirous of it."

Since Elan isn't trying to prove anything (or the one least attached to proving something), he may be in the position to be given the most responsibility, or power, of anyone.

Thank you for parleying this with me!

PS
URLs removed from the post because although I've posted in many other forums in past years I have not yet posted "10" here yet (2 more posts to reach 10!)

[snowblizz]

Thank you for showing me that! Yes that's true, and I also feel that this sequence falls more into the category of "humor" than using his abilities to drive the plot or be a major player in a conflict/battle, which is what I'm indicating would be really cool, and what you seem to agree with me would be awesome

Part of the humour and foundation of the jokes is that the bard song has mechanical effects (but it's also not very great, and easily forgotten in the heat of battle), no matter how simple or silly the tune. Like Elan who sings it with a row row your boat kinda melody.

The mechanics limit the effectiveness of the effects tough so it can't really have a massive tide turning effect either.


Ironically Elan almost gets it right during the Battle of Azure city with his Big Speech (Fails) moment. The problem there ofc is Elan is still not applying his Int score intelligently (or maybe Wis, I don't know) point being he was doing fine until he goes on a bit too long and a bit too much. A lot of his diplomacy attempts fail in his early career because he doesn't really apply himself to thinking through his actions.

[Roland Itiative]

While the songs themselves are presented as funny, I don't think they have been "just a joke" for a long time (the "concentrate" song comes to mind as an example of the song being just a joke). Elan's songs have a buffing effect, the effect is just not as flashy as a spell. When he sings, we are to assume that he's actually helping with the task he's singing about.

It's rather like how Haley always yells "sneak attack" at the top of her lungs when she does one, even though that's very un-sneaky. It's a comedic way to show an actual class ability when it otherwise could have easily gone unnoticed.

[Chronos]

But later in that same battle, the entire war comes to a stop, just to listen to Elan sing. It may or may not have had direct mechanical effects, but that's still some serious power, there.

[Throknor]

While the songs themselves are presented as funny, I don't think they have been "just a joke" for a long time (the "concentrate" song comes to mind as an example of the song being just a joke). Elan's songs have a buffing effect, the effect is just not as flashy as a spell. When he sings, we are to assume that he's actually helping with the task he's singing about.

I don't have time to look for it, but I recall one along the lines of Elan singing "Move silently!" and Roy pointing out this was specifically a time when a song doesn't help. At least, I'm sure there was a time Roy pointed that out and I think it was a move silent check.

[Emanick]

I don't have time to look for it, but I recall one along the lines of Elan singing "Move silently!" and Roy pointing out this was specifically a time when a song doesn't help. At least, I'm sure there was a time Roy pointed that out and I think it was a move silent check.

You remember mostly correctly - that did happen, except it was Haley who pointed it out.

[Quartz]

Didn't Elan once use his Song of Freedom to un-petrify someone?

[KorvinStarmast]

To answer the OP: never.

ETA: oops, I stand corrected.

(Also, his song over Roy during the Azure City battle was a nice use of the song that wasn't a joke)

[snowblizz]

Didn't Elan once use his Song of Freedom to un-petrify someone?

Yes, as pointed out in the second post of this thread.

He uses it here (panel 7) to free Belkar from an illusion.

[Emanick]

Yes, as pointed out in the second post of this thread.

That's not an un-petrification, it's a different use of the Song of Freedom.

As far as I recall, Elan has never un-petrified anyone. Quartz might be thinking of this strip, where Squeaky and Janna un-petrified Durkon.

[DreamCreator]

Ironically Elan almost gets it right during the Battle of Azure city with his Big Speech (Fails) moment. The problem there ofc is Elan is still not applying his Int score intelligently (or maybe Wis, I don't know) point being he was doing fine until he goes on a bit too long and a bit too much. A lot of his diplomacy attempts fail in his early career because he doesn't really apply himself to thinking through his actions.

Yes there is that time and also the time where he speaks to Tarquin's people where it's like he definitely landed some serious emotion inside people. And, if he delivers with more clarity it could seriously affect outcomes. There is also the scenario of singing after Roy died that someone pointed out. I find this a good example of where he sang wiht purity. It didn't really affect the battle, but it certainly got everyone's attention (even Xykon's to a certain degree, I'm not sure if that is saying something though).

[SlashDash]

I don't think a last ditch effort to save a dying person would be considered a joke. Even if it didn't succeed.