Grrl Power VI: Stripping The Hero Doesnt Work

[Max_Killjoy]

We don't want to involve real-world politics, but I think Mozambique's neighbors would be reluctant to take on Tom's army of demons with unknown powers. We'll see what Dave's world looks like. Tom being a somewhat law abiding extraterrestrial fiend, he's going to point to Deus inviting him onto Earth as justification for him being there. And I'll bet there are no treaties making it illegal for Galyta to invite alien mercenaries onto Earth.

This is where a superpower needs secret operatives. You need to be able to stop Deus without using your own uniformed troops.

I don't mean their neighbors, I mean any country.

On a purely theory basis, a country being invaded doesn't need UN approval to ask for defensive assistance.

[halfeye]

This has reached the point where one country can directly ASK another country for assistance.

The UN need to be involved.

I think you probably lost a "does not" in the last sentence.

[Max_Killjoy]

I think you probably lost a "does not" in the last sentence.

I did.

(This text here to satisfy silly 10-character rule.)

[Shining Wrath]

I don't mean their neighbors, I mean any country.

On a purely theory basis, a country being invaded doesn't need UN approval to ask for defensive assistance.

Concur, but I think this is at the level of "Deus has to be removed from power" aggression, which goes beyond self-defense. The man is quite literally opening the gates to hell and unleashing demons against humanity.

Apropos nothing, "Son of a Puritan" is a pretty amusing oath for Dabbler to hurl at Tom.

[Mechalich]

Concur, but I think this is at the level of "Deus has to be removed from power" aggression, which goes beyond self-defense. The man is quite literally opening the gates to hell and unleashing demons against humanity.

Well, the 'demons' are arguably just aliens, but in any case Deus is involving inter-planetary forces in an intra-planetary dispute. This is clearly unacceptable, but, as Tom noted previously, Earth lacks any sort of framework to stop it from happening. Deus is basically trying to race ahead of the law here.

What is harder to understand is Deus' endgame. Why partner with Tom at all? Surely he doesn't need demonic aid to overrun a chunk of Mozambique, and bringing in a huge demon army only introduces a ton of complications. Notably, even if no other nation or supers group intervenes, he's stuck dealing with Tom and Tom's world-conquering ambitions long-term. The only scenario that comes to mind to me is if Deus wants to be appointed 'provincial magistrate: Earth' or whatever the equivalent title is, but that kind of subordination seems out of character for him.

[Keltest]

Well, the 'demons' are arguably just aliens, but in any case Deus is involving inter-planetary forces in an intra-planetary dispute. This is clearly unacceptable, but, as Tom noted previously, Earth lacks any sort of framework to stop it from happening. Deus is basically trying to race ahead of the law here.

What is harder to understand is Deus' endgame. Why partner with Tom at all? Surely he doesn't need demonic aid to overrun a chunk of Mozambique, and bringing in a huge demon army only introduces a ton of complications. Notably, even if no other nation or supers group intervenes, he's stuck dealing with Tom and Tom's world-conquering ambitions long-term. The only scenario that comes to mind to me is if Deus wants to be appointed 'provincial magistrate: Earth' or whatever the equivalent title is, but that kind of subordination seems out of character for him.

The other side to this coin, of course, is that if there arent any laws or regulations governing it, theres not a lot Deus can do if, say, Archon comes in, banishes all his demons, and maybe hauls him back to the US to be tried as a traitor or something due to military participation in another nation's conquest. The only thing they have to abide by is public image here, and "fighting a literal conquering demon army." is a fairly strong position.

[KillianHawkeye]

It strikes me that Deus' pitch has always been "Let me take over, and I'll make your country better over the long term." Tom's pitch was "Let me conquer your planet, and I'll oversee your transition to a unified, peaceful (subservient) society" or something like it. We didn't actually get to see the slideshow, so we don't have the details.

If Tom is willing to play the long game, and it's possible if he's the immortal space demon he seems to be, allying with Deus might make total sense to him.

[Mechalich]

If Tom is willing to play the long game, and it's possible if he's the immortal space demon he seems to be, allying with Deus might make total sense to him.

Tom's side of the equation makes perfect sense, it's Deus' that's questionable. It's like when Lex Luthor or Vandal Savage allies with Darkside. In those scenarios there's little for Darkside to lose, except time and he's not in a hurry, but there's plenty for Lex/Vandal to lose - up to and including 'everything' - so the bargain only makes sense if they believe either that there's no other choice, or that they can renege later and get away with it. The former pretty clearly doesn't apply here, since while it's arguable that Earth will be forced to accept a subordinate role to some post-FTL society, there's no reason why it needs to be Tom's. As to the latter, it's possible but high risk. I suppose it depends on how much 'fortune favors the bold' one feels is in-character for Deus.

Thinking on it, I suppose the part I feel is lacking is the potential reward. If you're going to ally with an extraterrestrial demon army, think higher than 'secure a transit corridor through Mozambique.' Now, perhaps Deus is - 'Hegemon of Sub-Saharan Africa' is potentially in play here and that's certainly high enough - and this is simply the opening move. I suppose we'll see.

[Traab]

Being able to provide tom with a legit foothold on earth has to be worth a lot of clout in the negotiation stage of making a contract, so its entirely possible deus has been able to arrange a pretty huge sweetheart deal for himself in some way. Again, immortal (or at least long lived) demon with long term planning, let deus set himself up as grand poobah and high potentate of earth. In another 30 years he will be dead and its toms time to shine. I do agree however that its a bit odd for him to make deals at all considering he isnt exactly fighting china here, and so could handle it himself. Maybe he got himself a free sample package that he fully intends to cancel before the charges start rolling in? Or its like one of those traps where a powerful being offers you wishes, but your third wish costs you everything. The greedy soul eventually makes his third wish and evil cackling ensues. But if you can stop at two, you win. The only other option is he has a much MUCH bigger plan in mind and thinks he can use the demons as mercs and come out on top.

[Shining Wrath]

It's also possible that provoking super-power (in particular, USA) response is part of Deus' plan. Brainstorming:

• He wants to be rewarded by super powers for his sudden but inevitable betrayal of Tom. Destroy the potential invading army, eliminate a threat to earth - what's that worth to you, USA / China / Europe?
• Deus thinks that he can take Tom out after using him, perhaps through some sort of Shadow Council like group. A "fantasy flavor" group of supers previously unknown helps Deus betray Tom after Deus conquers a big piece of earth
• Deus thinks that his supers, plus his demonic horde, plus some nasty sneaky tricks, will let him defeat ArcSwat, making him the most powerful ruler on earth
• He hopes to provoke a war between super-powers, and survive to pick up the pieces - possibly by leaving Earth for a while and returning post nuclear apocalypse

[halfeye]

In another 30 years he will be dead

I still think Deus is Zeus, and even if not, 30 years is pretty darn short for a human life, a lot of people do die that early or earlier, but the average used to be 70, and I suspect it's gone up.

[InvisibleBison]

30 years is pretty darn short for a human life

True, but Deus isn't exactly a newborn.

[Traab]

I still think Deus is Zeus, and even if not, 30 years is pretty darn short for a human life, a lot of people do die that early or earlier, but the average used to be 70, and I suspect it's gone up.

True, I just threw out some numbers to emphasize that tom wouldnt care about a human lifespan before he can take over.

[halfeye]

True, but Deus isn't exactly a newborn.

He's by the looks of him 30? plus 30 would make 60 which is pretty young to die of old age.

[Mechalich]

Regarding age, with the reveal of advanced post-FTL civilizations it is probable that at least some kind of life-extension technology is in play. That's certainly the kind of thing Tom could offer Deus and it would potentially be very tempting (though because Deus can visit The Fracture any time he wants it would have to be that such tech is not available on the commercial market or even the black market at any price).

Beyond that, I could see Deus' actions here as part of a complex play for the position of 'CEO of Earth' or something similar. Tom's declaration in comic 989 that Earth is totally not ready for this new age is entirely correct. If Earth is to survive as an independent entity it needs to unify under some kind of legitimate global administration in an unbelievable hurry. Deus, of course, thinks that when that happens he should be 'Secretary-General for Life' or something similar. Unleashing demonic forces in a war, and especially using them to utterly smear a conventional military all over the place (though once again, Mozambique is, respectfully, not a very impressive target in this regard) is demonstrative that this needs to happen right now and could kickstart the negotiating process.

Alternatively, since Earth's defense is more or less entirely dependent upon Supers at this time - reverse engineered Fel and Alari technologies being probably a decade plus away from deployment - Deus may be trying to force the creation of a pan-national 'Earth Defense League' of Supers with himself as it's manager/financier. Unfortunately, a lot of the ground work necessary for this sort of thing - such as introducing at least a representative from the Super-teams of China, the EU, India, and other major nations - hasn't been established.

[Shining Wrath]

Regarding age, with the reveal of advanced post-FTL civilizations it is probable that at least some kind of life-extension technology is in play. That's certainly the kind of thing Tom could offer Deus and it would potentially be very tempting (though because Deus can visit The Fracture any time he wants it would have to be that such tech is not available on the commercial market or even the black market at any price).

Beyond that, I could see Deus' actions here as part of a complex play for the position of 'CEO of Earth' or something similar. Tom's declaration in comic 989 that Earth is totally not ready for this new age is entirely correct. If Earth is to survive as an independent entity it needs to unify under some kind of legitimate global administration in an unbelievable hurry. Deus, of course, thinks that when that happens he should be 'Secretary-General for Life' or something similar. Unleashing demonic forces in a war, and especially using them to utterly smear a conventional military all over the place (though once again, Mozambique is, respectfully, not a very impressive target in this regard) is demonstrative that this needs to happen right now and could kickstart the negotiating process.

Alternatively, since Earth's defense is more or less entirely dependent upon Supers at this time - reverse engineered Fel and Alari technologies being probably a decade plus away from deployment - Deus may be trying to force the creation of a pan-national 'Earth Defense League' of Supers with himself as it's manager/financier. Unfortunately, a lot of the ground work necessary for this sort of thing - such as introducing at least a representative from the Super-teams of China, the EU, India, and other major nations - hasn't been established.

We learned in Monday's strip that Mozambique (poor, population 30M) had a military team of supers - which Deus wiped out. There were presumably no Maxima level soldiers, but if small poor nations can field a team of supers, we have to assume that the world as a whole has lots and lots of supers. Maxima may be the top of the power rankings (being as she combines super with alien tech), but there must be hundreds or even thousands of supers with a huge variety of powers.

[sihnfahl]

We learned in Monday's strip that Mozambique (poor, population 30M) had a military team of supers - which Deus wiped out. There were presumably no Maxima level soldiers, but if small poor nations can field a team of supers, we have to assume that the world as a whole has lots and lots of supers. Maxima may be the top of the power rankings (being as she combines super with alien tech), but there must be hundreds or even thousands of supers with a huge variety of powers.

Or the supers were just citizens turned super, and they decided to stay and defend the country, rather than go freelance.

[Keltest]

Or the supers were just citizens turned super, and they decided to stay and defend the country, rather than go freelance.

Frankly, its a bit of an assumption that theyre all even native to the country. Hiring foreign mercenaries is hardly unknown to small time strongmen dictators in general.

[Mechalich]

'Team' is a fairly flexible word. If Mozambique had 3-6 supers (between 1 in 10 million and 1 in 5 million) that would still constitute a 'team,' even though Vale could probably murder them all with minimal effort.

The overall number of supers is highly important to the setting, but unfortunately Dave isn't exactly detail-oriented with regard to this sort of thing, as noted by the fact that he couldn't be bothered to give Mozambique the correct tanks even though it takes two seconds to figure that out and there are perfectly good images of T-55's available everywhere.

[Max_Killjoy]

I think Deus might have underestimated the impact on world opinion that having literal demons in his service might cause.

[Shining Wrath]

Or the supers were just citizens turned super, and they decided to stay and defend the country, rather than go freelance.

Frankly, its a bit of an assumption that theyre all even native to the country. Hiring foreign mercenaries is hardly unknown to small time strongmen dictators in general.

'Team' is a fairly flexible word. If Mozambique had 3-6 supers (between 1 in 10 million and 1 in 5 million) that would still constitute a 'team,' even though Vale could probably murder them all with minimal effort.

The overall number of supers is highly important to the setting, but unfortunately Dave isn't exactly detail-oriented with regard to this sort of thing, as noted by the fact that he couldn't be bothered to give Mozambique the correct tanks even though it takes two seconds to figure that out and there are perfectly good images of T-55's available everywhere.

It's not the point whether or not these supers were native to Mozambique. The point is that there's enough supers out there that a relatively small, poor nation had a team. Supers are commonplace; we should assume that every nation, and probably every major corporation, has a team. If you're Microsoft, do you try to find supers whose talents lend themselves towards cyber infiltration and get them to use their powers for good? White hat rather than black?

Do you suppose the oil majors need defense for their big installations?

Does Amazon need supers to defend their warehouses against super criminals?

Oscar Wilde said that in heaven, an angel is no one in particular. In GP-verse, a super seems to be a fairly common person.

I think Deus might have underestimated the impact on world opinion that having literal demons in his service might cause.

I agree. This crosses the line for every nation with a smidgen of decency OR self-protection. Even if you view demons as a form of alien, he's hiring alien mercenaries and turning them loose on Earth.

[Traab]

It's not the point whether or not these supers were native to Mozambique. The point is that there's enough supers out there that a relatively small, poor nation had a team. Supers are commonplace; we should assume that every nation, and probably every major corporation, has a team. If you're Microsoft, do you try to find supers whose talents lend themselves towards cyber infiltration and get them to use their powers for good? White hat rather than black?

Do you suppose the oil majors need defense for their big installations?

Does Amazon need supers to defend their warehouses against super criminals?

Oscar Wilde said that in heaven, an angel is no one in particular. In GP-verse, a super seems to be a fairly common person.



I agree. This crosses the line for every nation with a smidgen of decency OR self-protection. Even if you view demons as a form of alien, he's hiring alien mercenaries and turning them loose on Earth.

When supers are literally 1 in a million, or 1 in 10 million as the case may be, thats still rare even if every nation likely has at least a couple. But yes, we have seen independent groups have supers, from deus himself, to crime bosses. Its probably unlikely amazon has any supers on their staff aside from delivery girl, who got poached by deus and took on the name opal. The oil fields likely have super protection, but thats because they tend to be owned by the government in some form or another anyways.

[Forum Explorer]

When supers are literally 1 in a million, or 1 in 10 million as the case may be, thats still rare even if every nation likely has at least a couple. But yes, we have seen independent groups have supers, from deus himself, to crime bosses. Its probably unlikely amazon has any supers on their staff aside from delivery girl, who got poached by deus and took on the name opal. The oil fields likely have super protection, but thats because they tend to be owned by the government in some form or another anyways.

I think the point is that super are more common than 1 in a million. Maybe as low as 1 in 100 000. Still not so common that you'll bump into them walking down the street, but not so rare that a government (or Deus) could hire all the supers in the world.

[Shining Wrath]

I think the point is that super are more common than 1 in a million. Maybe as low as 1 in 100 000. Still not so common that you'll bump into them walking down the street, but not so rare that a government (or Deus) could hire all the supers in the world.

Maybe it's one in 10,000, but most of them aren't using their powers. We have no real data beyond "A small, poor nation could field a team of supers with military-adjacent skills".

[Traab]

Maybe it's one in 10,000, but most of them aren't using their powers. We have no real data beyond "A small, poor nation could field a team of supers with military-adjacent skills".

We have no info to work with. For all we know the team was three dudes with the super powers of digesting cellulose, being able to hold his breath for 8 minutes, and keeping his cup of tea warm till he is done drinking it. It really doesnt suggest supers are super common. Heck, for all we know they might not even BE supers, but members of the supernatural community taking the opening to come out in the daylight as I think was mentioned during that whole twilight council arc. Which muddies the waters even more if thats the case. How do we define supers? Does maxima count since she got her powers from a space geode? How about sydney using hyper advanced tech thats bonded to her? Dabbler is an alien/demon/inventor, does she count? At this point I think the answer is, whatever the plot demands. We are left really vague on details. Like half of arcswat isnt technically a super as I also include math who is an example of excessive breeding and training, not mystery powers.

[Forum Explorer]

We have no info to work with. For all we know the team was three dudes with the super powers of digesting cellulose, being able to hold his breath for 8 minutes, and keeping his cup of tea warm till he is done drinking it. It really doesnt suggest supers are super common. Heck, for all we know they might not even BE supers, but members of the supernatural community taking the opening to come out in the daylight as I think was mentioned during that whole twilight council arc. Which muddies the waters even more if thats the case. How do we define supers? Does maxima count since she got her powers from a space geode? How about sydney using hyper advanced tech thats bonded to her? Dabbler is an alien/demon/inventor, does she count? At this point I think the answer is, whatever the plot demands. We are left really vague on details. Like half of arcswat isnt technically a super as I also include math who is an example of excessive breeding and training, not mystery powers.

Considering they joined the military, I doubt their powers were entirely peaceful. But I see your point.

Anyways, I'd define super as a human with abilities beyond the normal capabilities of ordinary people. So no, Dabbler wouldn't count. Therefore she should be removed from the comic immediately . Math likely does though, even if his abilities aren't technically supernatural.

[Shining Wrath]

And Dave moves just a little further from reality. Sending members of the military to visit a country at war is usually a sign that you're on their side and sending observers. If the United States wants to send a diplomatic message to Deus, they'd use diplomats, which Maxima is not, and which Sydney quite very definitely is not.

[Radar]

And Dave moves just a little further from reality. Sending members of the military to visit a country at war is usually a sign that you're on their side and sending observers. If the United States wants to send a diplomatic message to Deus, they'd use diplomats, which Maxima is not, and which Sydney quite very definitely is not.

We do not know what will be their mission and on which side of the front to be honest - just that they are going to the warzone. We also do not know the diplomatic agreements that could have been rushed in the meantime and so on.

[Keltest]

We do not know what will be their mission and on which side of the front to be honest - just that they are going to the warzone. We also do not know the diplomatic agreements that could have been rushed in the meantime and so on.

Max also seemed to indicate that she's going on a personal trip, accepting his invitation to visit as a pretext to get over there and spy on her own (which he almost certainly knows is coming), rather than as any sort of formal military operation.

[Dragonus45]

And Dave moves just a little further from reality. Sending members of the military to visit a country at war is usually a sign that you're on their side and sending observers. If the United States wants to send a diplomatic message to Deus, they'd use diplomats, which Maxima is not, and which Sydney quite very definitely is not.

Uhhh, in a world where super powers and super teams exist sending your team to pay a visit to a local despot isn't exactly sending the same message as it might in ours.