Grrl Power VI: Stripping The Hero Doesnt Work

[Kantaki]

In D&D, but maybe not in GPverse.

I was going by this page.

Which is kinda unhelpful actually.
”Actually devils are the tempters and corruptors. Demons are more direct. Except there isn't actually a difference."
Thanks for clarifying that, Dabbler.

[Shining Wrath]

I was going by this page.

Which is kinda unhelpful actually.
”Actually devils are the tempters and corruptors. Demons are more direct. Except there isn't actually a difference."
Thanks for clarifying that, Dabbler.

As my grandma would have said, that was clear as mud.

[Traab]

Well. . . she tried. Also, Hi Opal, this is maxima, id like to talk to you about the people you have been signing contracts with? Sure its possible there are two portal powered types out there, but it seems likely she is going to get a visit from her super parole officer soon.

[Shining Wrath]

And now we learn that HW can have multiple contracts open at the same time. Arianna needs to put in some OT finding them all. I'll bet ArcLight can search all the publicly filed contracts in the world in a few minutes using Super Google.

I do like Maxima's disdain. "I have super speed, moron".

And yes, mixed-gender prisons might encounter some difficulties.

[InvisibleBison]

Well. . . she tried. Also, Hi Opal, this is maxima, id like to talk to you about the people you have been signing contracts with? Sure its possible there are two portal powered types out there, but it seems likely she is going to get a visit from her super parole officer soon.

This is clearly not Opal, though. Her portals are purple and smooth-edged, while this portal is blue and jagged-edged.

[Traab]

This is clearly not Opal, though. Her portals are purple and smooth-edged, while this portal is blue and jagged-edged.

Fair point, well made. It IS possible its a difference in using said ability like how she was able to do different things with concretias powers to an extent, but you are probably right.

[sihnfahl]

Fair point, well made. It IS possible its a difference in using said ability like how she was able to do different things with concretias powers to an extent, but you are probably right.

That and with Opal, you could see the destination.

This looks more like a wormhole.

[Kantaki]

I love how even imaginary Kevin has that „Please stay away from me crazy lady.“ expression.
Pretty much how I'd expect the real one to react.
You know, ignoring that they'd never meet.
And that he's stoned like Woodstock all the time.

Also, I suspect Vehemence (Why did I remember his actual name, but not his Cape name? Oh right, cause it's hilarious.) would see right through Henchwench's game, considering what he pulled off.

[Dragonus45]

I love how even imaginary Kevin has that „Please stay away from me crazy lady.“ expression.
Pretty much how I'd expect the real one to react.
You know, ignoring that they'd never meet.
And that he's stoned like Woodstock all the time.

Also, I suspect Vehemence (Why did I remember his actual name, but not his Cape name? Oh right, cause it's hilarious.) would see right through Henchwench's game, considering what he pulled off.

I can only imagine her and Vehemence teaming up and beating the living hell out of each other in the middle of a massive ever growing riot. Right up until Max nukes them orbit because she is entirely willing to escalate when needed.

[Forum Explorer]

I can only imagine her and Vehemence teaming up and beating the living hell out of each other in the middle of a massive ever growing riot. Right up until Max nukes them orbit because she is entirely willing to escalate when needed.

How long of a prison sentence could you expect Kevin to have? He incited a riot, certainly, and attempted to murder Maxima, but I don't know how many years that actually adds up to.

[sihnfahl]

How long of a prison sentence could you expect Kevin to have? He incited a riot, certainly, and attempted to murder Maxima, but I don't know how many years that actually adds up to.

That assumes they didn't write laws that would allow ARCHON to hold supervillains indefinitely, until such time as they're deemed safe for release.

And they probably have a two strikes law. If you're released, that's your only chance. Use your powers for evil again, never to be released from incarceration. Or killed. Depending on the threat level.

[Shining Wrath]

I would imagine that the laws would be rewritten for super-villains. You've got a guy who could walk into Times Square on New Year's Eve, throw some punches at drunks, maybe scream some insults against various groups, and wind up with enough power to be able to raze Manhattan.

[Traab]

How long of a prison sentence could you expect Kevin to have? He incited a riot, certainly, and attempted to murder Maxima, but I don't know how many years that actually adds up to.

He also mind controlled (or at least influenced) a couple dozen humans. Thats a pretty big human rights violation, they were gathered from all over the world to do it as well iirc, thats all sorts of smuggling, human trafficking, border violation, acts of domestic terrorism, etc etc etc list of charges. They can easily justify locking him up forever. Seriously, im not a lawyer, nor do I play one on tv, but when prosecutors decide to pile on the charges its insane what they can do. I was on jury duty for an armed mugging trial. The prosecutor read off so many charges he had to flip the page TWICE to cover them all. Just by breaking the event down step by step its turned pointing a gun at someone and saying "Gimmie yer money" to like 40 criminal charges. And since he influenced the entire brawl, he is probably charged with a separate count of assault and battery for every single person any of the people he brought attacked as well as himself. 200 counts of first degree assault and battery probably add up to even more jail time than a single case of attempted murder. I wonder if it would be a violation of board rules if we got someone here with actual criminal justice knowledge to write up as complete a list of crimes as they can think of going by what happens in that arc. I bet it would take a lot of scrolling to get through it all.

[sihnfahl]

You've got a guy who could walk into Times Square on New Year's Eve, throw some punches at drunks, maybe scream some insults against various groups, and wind up with enough power to be able to raze Manhattan.

He wouldn't necessarily need to start it by throwing punches himself.

Remember, he has an aggro aura that makes it more likely people WANT to fight. Even folks who weren't fighting, previously (remember Arianna and Reporter Lady trading Klingon kisses?)

Just find a place with a lot of human aggression running high, roll out the aura, and enjoy the energy boosts while making it look like just spontaneous mob action, rather than a deliberate act. So the initial response to a spontaneous mob? Roll out the riot stuff... which just exacerbates the issue when the riot troops start to join in!

[Mechalich]

And since he influenced the entire brawl, he is probably charged with a separate count of assault and battery for every single person any of the people he brought attacked as well as himself. 200 counts of first degree assault and battery probably add up to even more jail time than a single case of attempted murder. I wonder if it would be a violation of board rules if we got someone here with actual criminal justice knowledge to write up as complete a list of crimes as they can think of going by what happens in that arc. I bet it would take a lot of scrolling to get through it all.

Every member of Archon is a federal military police officer, so each and every one of them attacked by Vehemence counts as 'assaulting an officer engaged in their duties' as a federal charge (18 USC 111), with the 'using deadly force' kicker. That's up to 20 years per count.

[Traab]

Every member of Archon is a federal military police officer, so each and every one of them attacked by Vehemence counts as 'assaulting an officer engaged in their duties' as a federal charge (18 USC 111), with the 'using deadly force' kicker. That's up to 20 years per count.

Im pretty sure he made it clear that he DIDNT kick them up to lethal. Hence why the worst injury was from sydney misjudging the force of her lighthook attack. Sprains, bruises, maybe a few minor broken bones. So it might be a safer bet to leave off the deadly force charge for the sure guilty verdict. But yeah, point made, vehemence rocked up a nice list of charges for himself even without going more esoteric like I was for human rights violations, terrorism, trafficking, etc.

[tyckspoon]

Im pretty sure he made it clear that he DIDNT kick them up to lethal. Hence why the worst injury was from sydney misjudging the force of her lighthook attack. Sprains, bruises, maybe a few minor broken bones. So it might be a safer bet to leave off the deadly force charge for the sure guilty verdict. But yeah, point made, vehemence rocked up a nice list of charges for himself even without going more esoteric like I was for human rights violations, terrorism, trafficking, etc.

It's hard to argue that knifing somebody, zapping people with lightning, propelling a hefty chunk of concrete, or exploding somebody with telekinetically controlled high explosives don't count as lethal force, let alone the various things Vehemence did to Maxima - if you want to charge Vehemence with all the actions of the villain side in that fight due to his mental influence, there's plenty of lethal to knowingly dangerous if probably-not-lethal acts to rack up.

This is a subject where Dave's weird blend of 'realistic consequences' and 'superpowers are neat and nothing really bad happens' really shows the misaligned edges, tho, especially when the potential bad things happen to characters that can't really be hurt by them - nobody at the fight is really capable of harming Maxima or breaking Sydney's shield, but they should still be charged and treated as if they were, because they absolutely attacked them with the intent to kill them.

[Radar]

Im pretty sure he made it clear that he DIDNT kick them up to lethal. Hence why the worst injury was from sydney misjudging the force of her lighthook attack. Sprains, bruises, maybe a few minor broken bones. So it might be a safer bet to leave off the deadly force charge for the sure guilty verdict. But yeah, point made, vehemence rocked up a nice list of charges for himself even without going more esoteric like I was for human rights violations, terrorism, trafficking, etc.

He said it very explicitly that he intended to murder Maxima. From how it all played out, it would surely be qualified as a premeditated murder attempt. That alone would add quite a lot of years to his sentence.

[Traab]

He said it very explicitly that he intended to murder Maxima. From how it all played out, it would surely be qualified as a premeditated murder attempt. That alone would add quite a lot of years to his sentence.

Nope, he said right off he DIDNT want to kill anyone, but max had ramped things up to the point where he had to kill HER because otherwise she would zoom and boom snipe him to death at some later date. His plan had been to have a super brawl, beat everyone up, then leave, but max made it clear she was out for the kill and she is so powerful that he wouldnt be able to stop her without all that massive ramp up time first. "Ironically, you are too violent for ME!" So yes for the attempted murder charge against max, not so for anyone else.

[Radar]

Nope, he said right off he DIDNT want to kill anyone, but max had ramped things up to the point where he had to kill HER because otherwise she would zoom and boom snipe him to death at some later date. His plan had been to have a super brawl, beat everyone up, then leave, but max made it clear she was out for the kill and she is so powerful that he wouldnt be able to stop her without all that massive ramp up time first. "Ironically, you are too violent for ME!" So yes for the attempted murder charge against max, not so for anyone else.

Yes, it all ckecks out. Maybe "premeditated" was not the right word here, but he was surely not acting in affection - he made a rather calm assessment of the situation and decided to kill Maxima and only Maxima (I did not write about other possible targets).

[Max_Killjoy]

It was a statement of intent regardless of when the intent began.

[Forum Explorer]

You know, thinking about it this latest comic bothers me. Like, Maxima could have started the fight like this and not let Hench Wench keep her busy. Instead of the constant faffing about we got for the last what? 10 comics?

Anyways, I plan on rereading this whole arc once it's finished and seeing how it stands up when you read it all at once. Maybe Hench Wench will be less annoying on a reread, but I doubt that.

[Sean Mirrsen]

You know, thinking about it this latest comic bothers me. Like, Maxima could have started the fight like this and not let Hench Wench keep her busy. Instead of the constant faffing about we got for the last what? 10 comics?

Anyways, I plan on rereading this whole arc once it's finished and seeing how it stands up when you read it all at once. Maybe Hench Wench will be less annoying on a reread, but I doubt that.

With the benefit of hindsight, it makes perfect sense.

As soon as HW declared the nature of her powers, simply subduing her became a bad option. Unless she was no longer part of the LLC, there was no telling what powers she is able to manifest, and thus it's impossible to properly devise an effective way of subduing her. Maxima occupying HW's attention served multiple ends, such as finding out the extents of her powers (and thus identifying other members of the LLC), and delaying long enough for some method of stripping her of powers to be devised. When she couldn't be ejected from the company because of her contract devilry, Arianna had to work her own 'magic' to disband the company entirely and thus void the contract.

And even then we find that, had Hench Wench been simply restrained, she still could have escaped thanks to yet another unaccounted-for power. So Maxima taking her time and using minimum appropriate force, worked very well in this instance.

[Traab]

You know, thinking about it this latest comic bothers me. Like, Maxima could have started the fight like this and not let Hench Wench keep her busy. Instead of the constant faffing about we got for the last what? 10 comics?

Anyways, I plan on rereading this whole arc once it's finished and seeing how it stands up when you read it all at once. Maybe Hench Wench will be less annoying on a reread, but I doubt that.

Remember, while max DOES have the authority to kill, its considered a last resort. So when you are superman and dont want someone to die, you have to thread the needle very carefully between effective damage and red splotch. Someone with multiple powers is even more obnoxious to deal with. On a related note, hench wench looks VERY cute in that second to last panel.

[Forum Explorer]

With the benefit of hindsight, it makes perfect sense.

As soon as HW declared the nature of her powers, simply subduing her became a bad option. Unless she was no longer part of the LLC, there was no telling what powers she is able to manifest, and thus it's impossible to properly devise an effective way of subduing her. Maxima occupying HW's attention served multiple ends, such as finding out the extents of her powers (and thus identifying other members of the LLC), and delaying long enough for some method of stripping her of powers to be devised. When she couldn't be ejected from the company because of her contract devilry, Arianna had to work her own 'magic' to disband the company entirely and thus void the contract.

And even then we find that, had Hench Wench been simply restrained, she still could have escaped thanks to yet another unaccounted-for power. So Maxima taking her time and using minimum appropriate force, worked very well in this instance.

It worked very well because Hench Wench is an overconfident idiot. Had she just kept that portal power under wraps she could have waited until she was outside Maxima's sight and than left rather than just trying to bail right in front of her.

And I don't see how simply subduing her would make it in any way harder to dissolve the LLC.

Remember, while max DOES have the authority to kill, its considered a last resort. So when you are superman and dont want someone to die, you have to thread the needle very carefully between effective damage and red splotch. Someone with multiple powers is even more obnoxious to deal with. On a related note, hench wench looks VERY cute in that second to last panel.

You don't need to kill her. I mean, Maxima had no problems popping a bullet into Brut's kneecap to prove a point, she could have easily done the same with Hench Wench. Or you know, actually putting her in a hold, or just engaging her sooner rather than letting herself be held up keeping Brut hostage. And when she did start fighting she went pretty soft on Hench Wench for a while before she finally resorted to shanking her with rebar.

Which is kinda my problem. Why didn't Maxima start taking it seriously sooner? Like Hench Wench knocked out the power grid for something like a dozen city blocks. That seems like a good time to stop messing around.

[Sean Mirrsen]

And I don't see how simply subduing her would make it in any way harder to dissolve the LLC.

It's not that it would have made dissolving the LLC harder. Dissolving the LLC would have taken the exact same amount of time.
But if she was 'subdued', and let be (i.e. handed off to non-powered or less-powerful guards) under the assumption that she was subdued, she could manifest an unknown power and either make her escape or do something else.

One way or another you'd have needed someone like Maxima in direct proximity to Hench Wench, to ensure that she is captured. Even so it wouldn't have worked, it turns out, thanks to HW coming up with the ridiculous ghost-form power gambit, and it's only thanks to Concretia that she could be delayed long enough for the LLC to be dissolved.

Basically, Maxima fighting her the way she did, was in effect 'subduing' Hench Wench.

Which is kinda my problem. Why didn't Maxima start taking it seriously sooner? Like Hench Wench knocked out the power grid for something like a dozen city blocks. That seems like a good time to stop messing around.

Stop messing around and do what, exactly? Blast her? Only did that to Vehemence once he was proven to be an otherwise insurmountable threat. Punch her? Did that, but she is durable enough to take it. Grab her? She has the ghost form and can animate new bodies for herself out of nearby materials. Maxima did eventually shank her through the leg when the delaying tactic was starting to fail, but then HW got around even that.

Maxima took it as seriously as the situation demanded it. Because finding someone's super-limits is hard, she has to ramp up her power to avoid causing death or grievous injuries. Property damage is not punishable by death, to the best of my knowledge. :P

[Shining Wrath]

It was a statement of intent regardless of when the intent began.

Premeditated murder requires only an instant of premeditation. If someone goes into a liquor store intending to rob the place using a gun, and shoots the clerk when the clerk reaches for their own gun, that can be premeditated murder. IANAL, but I think that's how it works.

And Hench Wench has escaped, to annoy Archon another day. Her cat's expression is priceless. "obstroculous" is not really a word, it's a corruption of "obstropulous", which in turn is a slang for "obstreperous". Per WoD in the comments, it comes from "Are You Being Served?".

Also, the sonar guy on the USS Dallas is rightfully confused.

[sihnfahl]

Her cat's expression is priceless.

Looks like the poor cat got splashed by a not inconsiderable amount of water.

I do have to fault Arianna for this. Surely she didn't overlook that perhaps HW would have multiple contracts not associated with the LLC, and look at nullifying those as well? Just as a backup?

[Max_Killjoy]

Premeditated murder requires only an instant of premeditation. If someone goes into a liquor store intending to rob the place using a gun, and shoots the clerk when the clerk reaches for their own gun, that can be premeditated murder. IANAL, but I think that's how it works.

Premeditation by the letter of the law requires planning or clear intent before the fact, in most jurisdictions.

What prosecutors try to charge people with isn't the same as the law itself, sadly -- prosecutors will try to claim that being armed "shows intent", if for no other reason than to drive a harder plea bargain.

[Radar]

Looks like the poor cat got splashed by a not inconsiderable amount of water.

I do have to fault Arianna for this. Surely she didn't overlook that perhaps HW would have multiple contracts not associated with the LLC, and look at nullifying those as well? Just as a backup?

She can still do that. Additionally, HW's real name needs to be on those contracts, doesn't it? Once she is out of powers, tracking and incarcerating her should not be that difficult.