Grrl Power VI: Stripping The Hero Doesnt Work

[sihnfahl]

She can still do that.

Which she should have been doing. Nullify them all in one fell swoop, instead of play 'what power does she have next up her sleeve'?

[Keltest]

Which she should have been doing. Nullify them all in one fell swoop, instead of play 'what power does she have next up her sleeve'?

I rather doubt she has the legal ability to just mass excise somebody from every contract they have their name on, especially if she is contracted with somebody in, say, Russia.

[Max_Killjoy]

Maybe they haven't tracked down all the contracts HW has going, yet.

They could be filed in other countries, filed under DBAs, etc.

[sihnfahl]

I rather doubt she has the legal ability to just mass excise somebody from every contract they have their name on, especially if she is contracted with somebody in, say, Russia.

Or at least excise those she can, and advise that other contracts are in effect that may impact her responses.

[Traab]

Or at least excise those she can, and advise that other contracts are in effect that may impact her responses.

She still has to find them though, and it sounds like hench here is surprisingly clever. Arianna probably prioritized finding this big llc contract then figured her job was done. A small personal contract between two people is probably a lot less simple to locate then, considering it involves portals it could be setup anywhere on earth. For all we know its a small contract between two people where each holds a copy of it themself, no need to register it with the government. Forming an llc is a different matter with far more legal hurdles to overcome.

[Shining Wrath]

HW said the teleport power was from a contract with a friend.
I'm not certain that every contract has to be filed with a court. For example, if I sign up for cable service, I do not think Comcast files our contract with the government. They keep a copy, and so do I (if I'm smart), and if I don't pay / they don't provide service, then we file the contracts as part of our suits (although I think Comcast requires arbitration, so, detail bad example).
My point is that not every contract HW has is necessarily where Arianna can locate it online.
Also, I know that people purchase real estate via shell companies because I've seen news reports about that being done when purchasing from a famous person oft in the news. A shell company is designed to obfuscate the person or persons behind it.

[AvatarVecna]

We know not every contract has to be filed with a court to count because of the Vehemence imagine-spot. That scene just doesn't work if she needs court approval to get her powers working. It's unrealistic cuz of the super-super-max gen pop part, but she at least suspected that an agreement like what was pictured would maybe give her V's powers.

[Kantaki]

I mean, it could be something simple, like HW agreeing to buy groceries and stuff for portal buddy.
Nothing that'd actually need a formalized contract, but with her power, why not?
Or it's something silly, like a "contract" about their D&D nights.

They need to be a villain, though, unless providing HW with a get-away power is enough to qualify.

[Traab]

I mean, it could be something simple, like HW agreeing to buy groceries and stuff for portal buddy.
Nothing that'd actually need a formalized contract, but with her power, why not?
Or it's something silly, like a "contract" about their D&D nights.

They need to be a villain, though, unless providing HW with a get-away power is enough to qualify.

"Im going to be committing ALL SORTS of crimes but I need an emergency escape plan so I want to form a contract with you to use your powers. Just by agreeing to this it makes you an accomplice and thus a villain so it works. "

[Forum Explorer]

Stop messing around and do what, exactly? Blast her? Only did that to Vehemence once he was proven to be an otherwise insurmountable threat. Punch her? Did that, but she is durable enough to take it. Grab her? She has the ghost form and can animate new bodies for herself out of nearby materials. Maxima did eventually shank her through the leg when the delaying tactic was starting to fail, but then HW got around even that.

Maxima took it as seriously as the situation demanded it. Because finding someone's super-limits is hard, she has to ramp up her power to avoid causing death or grievous injuries. Property damage is not punishable by death, to the best of my knowledge. :P

As of this latest comic, yes blast her with lethal intent. She was escaping and again, Maxima certainly had time to kill her, or even just snap her neck.

But before that Maxima was very much pulling her punches. I mean, particularly in comparison to how she fought Brut. She immediately shot him in the knee, followed it up with a pretty hefty smack to the head, and than put her gun to his crotch. She very much could replicate that with Hench Wench, either sticking a gun in her mouth or even just her fingers. Instead, every time Hench Wench did anything, she'd pause and let it happen first before responding. Like the going into ghost form or teleporting them.

Also using force to resist arrest is very much grounds for the police to kill you. You don't even need to use all that much force for the cops to be considered justified.

[Mechalich]

Also using force to resist arrest is very much grounds for the police to kill you. You don't even need to use all that much force for the cops to be considered justified.

Technically using deadly force against law enforcement or against bystanders (that part's important, because it means that even though Maxima may personally not be any danger she can use deadly force to protect others who lack her durability) allows law enforcement to respond with deadly force of its own.

Use of deadly force is only allowed until the threat is nullified, which is not a license to kill. In particular, deadly force is not to be deployed against a fleeing subject unless they represent an immanent threat to the public. So, in this situation, once Maxima and Hench Wench get portalled into the water, where there are no bystanders, the justification for deadly force disappears.

Also, Maxima does use deadly force in the two most recent strips. Chokeholds can kill. Current law on the subject is complex (forum rules probably prevent any analysis beyond that), but considering that Maxima could almost certainly squeeze Hench Wench's head right off, her use of the move certainly qualifies as such.

[TeChameleon]

There's also the fact that it was established early on that the simplest way to overcome Max' superspeed is to confuse her- Sydney's done it multiple times in the past with things a lot slower than popping out via portal.

And I suspect that if Max had just ashed HW's head, she'd have taken a fair bit of flack from her superiors. Superpowers are a rare commodity in the GP 'verse, and I suspect that there'd be more than a few think tanks with political clout who'd be absolutely salivating at the idea of getting their hands on her for study. Hell, if she was willing to put the brainpower in, she could probably make enough money to sleep on a pile of gold and gems like a friggin' dragon just by hiring herself out for study. I mean, her powers dictate that she has to be working for a villain, not that she has to be doing anything particularly villainous herself. Granted, I don't get the impression that she's in it for the money, necessarily, but it'd be an option for her.

[Radar]

There's also the fact that it was established early on that the simplest way to overcome Max' superspeed is to confuse her- Sydney's done it multiple times in the past with things a lot slower than popping out via portal.

And I suspect that if Max had just ashed HW's head, she'd have taken a fair bit of flack from her superiors. Superpowers are a rare commodity in the GP 'verse, and I suspect that there'd be more than a few think tanks with political clout who'd be absolutely salivating at the idea of getting their hands on her for study. Hell, if she was willing to put the brainpower in, she could probably make enough money to sleep on a pile of gold and gems like a friggin' dragon just by hiring herself out for study. I mean, her powers dictate that she has to be working for a villain, not that she has to be doing anything particularly villainous herself. Granted, I don't get the impression that she's in it for the money, necessarily, but it'd be an option for her.

Yup, she could be queen of salt.

To be honest, it is actually interesting, what is the motivation of people with superpowers to go the criminal route. Before the big reveal it might have been a combination of wanting to earn money with your talent and needing to keep it a secret (fear of government funded vivisectionists and all that). After the ARC press conference things have changed significantly, so super still going for the villainous career should have some solid motivation or really lack in perspective thinking.

[Yuki Akuma]

Additionally, HW's real name needs to be on those contracts, doesn't it?

Not necessarily. As long as all parties know who every other party is it doesn't really matter what name you write down.

Contracts don't even really need to be written down, for that matter.

HW said the teleport power was from a contract with a friend.
I'm not certain that every contract has to be filed with a court. For example, if I sign up for cable service, I do not think Comcast files our contract with the government. They keep a copy, and so do I (if I'm smart), and if I don't pay / they don't provide service, then we file the contracts as part of our suits (although I think Comcast requires arbitration, so, detail bad example).
My point is that not every contract HW has is necessarily where Arianna can locate it online.
Also, I know that people purchase real estate via shell companies because I've seen news reports about that being done when purchasing from a famous person oft in the news. A shell company is designed to obfuscate the person or persons behind it.

Not every contract needs to be filed with anyone. The vast majority aren't.

You are entering a contract every time you buy something from the grocery store.

Of course, Hench Wench's power is about employment, not contracts as such. Can you be employed by someone without writing out and filing a contract? ... Yes. Any time you washed someone's car as a kid, for example.

[Dragonus45]

Yup, she could be queen of salt.

To be honest, it is actually interesting, what is the motivation of people with superpowers to go the criminal route. Before the big reveal it might have been a combination of wanting to earn money with your talent and needing to keep it a secret (fear of government funded vivisectionists and all that). After the ARC press conference things have changed significantly, so super still going for the villainous career should have some solid motivation or really lack in perspective thinking.

I think there is a lot to be said for most supers in the setting have various degrees of superiority complexes and most people out there going the bad guy route are probably still convinced they could pull it off.

[Shining Wrath]

I think there is a lot to be said for most supers in the setting have various degrees of superiority complexes and most people out there going the bad guy route are probably still convinced they could pull it off.

Yep.
A lot of people commit crimes because they are desperate for some reason - the old "starving man steals loaf of bread" story.
And then there's the Robert Hanssens, who do crimes and no one really knows why, but ego seems like a likely motivation.

[Traab]

I think it might come down to the speech maxima gave at their coming out party when she three mile islanded the remains of the tank at the press conference. These people grew up being probably the only "special" one around because super powers are rare and that can easily give you the impression that you can do whatever you want because you can bench press a buick and catch it with your face without bruising so who is going to stop you? Well, here is the answer.

Honestly, ive read the fanfic rants before where some self insert pops up in the dc/marvel universe pointing out all the ways people with super powers could be filthy rich without ever once breaking the law so outside of the bad guys with mental health issues and the ones with relatable backstories I have no pity for the bad guys who get pounded into the turf then tossed in jail over and over again because they insist on using their ability to, i dunno, control insects, to rob banks instead of opening a trendy "holistic insect removal service" in hollywood offering exclusive harm free removal services to the rich and famous for absurd sums.

[Forum Explorer]

Technically using deadly force against law enforcement or against bystanders (that part's important, because it means that even though Maxima may personally not be any danger she can use deadly force to protect others who lack her durability) allows law enforcement to respond with deadly force of its own.

Use of deadly force is only allowed until the threat is nullified, which is not a license to kill. In particular, deadly force is not to be deployed against a fleeing subject unless they represent an immanent threat to the public. So, in this situation, once Maxima and Hench Wench get portalled into the water, where there are no bystanders, the justification for deadly force disappears.

Also, Maxima does use deadly force in the two most recent strips. Chokeholds can kill. Current law on the subject is complex (forum rules probably prevent any analysis beyond that), but considering that Maxima could almost certainly squeeze Hench Wench's head right off, her use of the move certainly qualifies as such.

Very much technically as it's pretty easy to justify considering how common it is. Like I'll admit that it's not carte blanche to kill the suspect whenever you want, but someone who used deadly force against your team, and is currently trying to escape is pretty easy to justify as being a danger to others. Oh, and they knocked out the power for a dozen blocks.

She lets go though, rather than follow up on it. Like we already have seen her be fast enough to interrupt the portal in the first place. She could have snapped Hench Wench's neck when she tried putting them both through the portal. Which she should've because that's legitimately one of the few things that could threaten Max.

There's also the fact that it was established early on that the simplest way to overcome Max' superspeed is to confuse her- Sydney's done it multiple times in the past with things a lot slower than popping out via portal.

And I suspect that if Max had just ashed HW's head, she'd have taken a fair bit of flack from her superiors. Superpowers are a rare commodity in the GP 'verse, and I suspect that there'd be more than a few think tanks with political clout who'd be absolutely salivating at the idea of getting their hands on her for study. Hell, if she was willing to put the brainpower in, she could probably make enough money to sleep on a pile of gold and gems like a friggin' dragon just by hiring herself out for study. I mean, her powers dictate that she has to be working for a villain, not that she has to be doing anything particularly villainous herself. Granted, I don't get the impression that she's in it for the money, necessarily, but it'd be an option for her.

True, but usually Maxima isn't in combat mode in the first place. And there are times in the fight where it make sense, like Hench Wench's bit with 'you punched my soul out of my body!' gag. But the portal trick? Shouldn't have worked considering Hench Wench was already in her hand. Ditto with the ghost form trick. That was slow, and practically announced by Hench Wench.

Also I doubt it. She's a threat, hostile, and getting away. That's plenty of grounds to ash her.

[TeChameleon]

True, but usually Maxima isn't in combat mode in the first place. And there are times in the fight where it make sense, like Hench Wench's bit with 'you punched my soul out of my body!' gag. But the portal trick? Shouldn't have worked considering Hench Wench was already in her hand. Ditto with the ghost form trick. That was slow, and practically announced by Hench Wench.

Also I doubt it. She's a threat, hostile, and getting away. That's plenty of grounds to ash her.

Eh. Tough to convey how fast the portal was moving around them in a static medium. Willing to give Dave the benefit of the doubt on this one.

And 'plenty of grounds'? Mmph. That's kinda never, ever even remotely stopped somebody in the field being second-guessed by the people in command, and especially the people that can put pressure on said commanders. As we can see from our own armchair analysis of what Max is doing, it's really easy to make all kinds of uncharitable assumptions about what's going on when you're not on the sharp end.

[Forum Explorer]

Eh. Tough to convey how fast the portal was moving around them in a static medium. Willing to give Dave the benefit of the doubt on this one.

And 'plenty of grounds'? Mmph. That's kinda never, ever even remotely stopped somebody in the field being second-guessed by the people in command, and especially the people that can put pressure on said commanders. As we can see from our own armchair analysis of what Max is doing, it's really easy to make all kinds of uncharitable assumptions about what's going on when you're not on the sharp end.

That seems generous since it'd be needing to be moving faster than a bullet to beat Maxima's reaction time.

I'm sure there would be analysis of what she did, maybe even complaints. But I'm pretty sure those reasons would be enough to stop any sort of censure of Maxima. I mean, you have to really mess up for the military to start thinking about seriously removing you from command. Ashing an enemy combatant that's trying to escape is pretty reasonable and I doubt it would raise many eyebrows.

[Shining Wrath]

Maxima is one of the Good Guys. So though she has killed (in the military, and presumably a whole bunch of Fel), she'd rather not kill you. Hard-core villains (Sciona, the masked guy that Cora just sliced and diced) don't mind killing you at all, and might even prefer it.

It's one of the old D&D discussions - does evil give you an advantage? Not caring whether or not you kill gives you greater latitude in what you can do. But while friends may come and go, enemies accumulate, and the more people you kill, the more people that want to kill you.

That's how I've always restrained Murder Hobos - you wipe out the entire tavern, and you find out that now the sheriff is looking for you. Take out the sheriff, the Baron is looking for you. Continue up the ladder, and eventually the Empress sends her best. And her best outnumber you 2-1, are several levels higher than you are, and have magical items up the wazoo. Oh, and they scry and show up when you've just finished a tough battle.

Win that and you are now the most powerful Murder Hobos ever! Except - you won't.

EDIT:

New strip, and I think Maxima will not like Cora very much. Maxima was ready to rip Sydney a new orifice, and then found out she was following orders, and had to be rescued, and that Cora is willing to annihilate people who mess with Sydney. So while she'll approve of defending Sydney, I don't think she'll approve of the Unwinding.

Oh, and Dabbler's expression when she looks at Maxima is great.

Sydney appears to still have "lasagna" on her forehead.

[Max_Killjoy]

Cora's unlimited visitor's pass might get some new restrictions.

And I love how Sydney's explanation is perfectly descriptive... and yet very succinct for Syd.

[Kantaki]

Sydney's description of that weapon...
Now I kind of want some lasagna.

[Radar]

Oh, and Dabbler's expression when she looks at Maxima is great.

And the sudden change in her reaction to the story heavily reminds me of Varsuvius here.

[Shining Wrath]

Cora is insufficiently chastened. Sydney is going through PTSD, big time - practically curled in up a fetal position. Maxima may not care too much about one bad guy, but the fact that Sydney's head has been messed up is going to infuriate her. Both practically - what if she's less useful going forward? - and personally.

Would you want to find out what Maxima is like if she's in full Ripley-at-the-end-of-Aliens mama bear mode? I, personally, would choose to avoid that. Cora is playing with fire.

[Traab]

Cora is insufficiently chastened. Sydney is going through PTSD, big time - practically curled in up a fetal position. Maxima may not care too much about one bad guy, but the fact that Sydney's head has been messed up is going to infuriate her. Both practically - what if she's less useful going forward? - and personally.

Would you want to find out what Maxima is like if she's in full Ripley-at-the-end-of-Aliens mama bear mode? I, personally, would choose to avoid that. Cora is playing with fire.

Considering that Cora literally saved sydneys life, I really doubt max is going into full momma bear on her. Notice her voice didnt even raise? Im pretty sure this is perfunctory castigating at best. She has to do this as cora went above and beyond acceptable behavior, but it was in the process of saving one of her troops lives, and the fact that it was sydney means max is far less unhappy about this than you might think. Beyond,
a) I wish I had done it
and
b) I wish she left him alive to question so i could roflstomp the entire crew.

That being said, at least pretending to take it seriously would be a good idea on coras part to avoid annoying max more. Which she did at the end by making the official report of "Recruit was in danger, not enough time to change rounds, made my best judgement call to save her." Which is the right answer on any report involving death in the line of duty. Now Max has that "official" report and can move on.

[Shining Wrath]

Considering that Cora literally saved sydneys life, I really doubt max is going into full momma bear on her. Notice her voice didnt even raise? Im pretty sure this is perfunctory castigating at best. She has to do this as cora went above and beyond acceptable behavior, but it was in the process of saving one of her troops lives, and the fact that it was sydney means max is far less unhappy about this than you might think. Beyond,
a) I wish I had done it
and
b) I wish she left him alive to question so i could roflstomp the entire crew.

That being said, at least pretending to take it seriously would be a good idea on coras part to avoid annoying max more. Which she did at the end by making the official report of "Recruit was in danger, not enough time to change rounds, made my best judgement call to save her." Which is the right answer on any report involving death in the line of duty. Now Max has that "official" report and can move on.

Ah, but you're still focused on the poor bad guy who got liquified.
I'm focused on Halo curled up in a ball suffering from PTSD and speaking two-word sentences.
Sydney. Two word sentences. Red alerts ought to be flashing in the minds of everyone who knows her and cares about her.
I don't think Maxima likes what has been done to her recruit. Not at all. Our sexy blue-skinned aliens may be amused by a human being dispersed over a 50' radius, but they are not thinking about the not-veteran-killer human who watched it at close range after being captured, drugged, slapped, and facing imminent death.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Ah, but you're still focused on the poor bad guy who got liquified.
I'm focused on Halo curled up in a ball suffering from PTSD and speaking two-word sentences.
Sydney. Two word sentences. Red alerts ought to be flashing in the minds of everyone who knows her and cares about her.
I don't think Maxima likes what has been done to her recruit. Not at all. Our sexy blue-skinned aliens may be amused by a human being dispersed over a 50' radius, but they are not thinking about the not-veteran-killer human who watched it at close range after being captured, drugged, slapped, and facing imminent death.

I'm going to go with "that's what she had chambered coming in". The fact that she chose to go with the hilariously lethal ordnance in the first place bears some questioning, but it should be noted that she probably did not expect to have to do a crash rescue. Assuming Sydney's glasses did in fact transmit video, last she would've seen was Sydney still not in immediate, imminent danger, and that was when she was already en route and just seconds out. The hostage situation escalated to a threat on Sydney's life very rapidly, and what may or may not have been a plan to intimidate with deadly force, ended up as a "shoot now, think of what to say later" situation.

It's not that she wouldn't have shot someone with the 'unwinder round' anyway. But I would guess that she was planning to use its hilarious lethality as intimidation first. Or expected the goons to flee, leaving Concretia - who is not a "soft target" - to cover their escape. Given that the 'unwinder' is relatively safe to bystanders, despite its absurd killing power, she could have made the choice to use it because Sydney was around, and she would have had to fight someone literally made of concrete.

Except then Sydney's life was in immediate danger, and she needed the threat eliminated ASAP.

[Shining Wrath]

I'm going to go with "that's what she had chambered coming in". The fact that she chose to go with the hilariously lethal ordnance in the first place bears some questioning, but it should be noted that she probably did not expect to have to do a crash rescue. Assuming Sydney's glasses did in fact transmit video, last she would've seen was Sydney still not in immediate, imminent danger, and that was when she was already en route and just seconds out. The hostage situation escalated to a threat on Sydney's life very rapidly, and what may or may not have been a plan to intimidate with deadly force, ended up as a "shoot now, think of what to say later" situation.

It's not that she wouldn't have shot someone with the 'unwinder round' anyway. But I would guess that she was planning to use its hilarious lethality as intimidation first. Or expected the goons to flee, leaving Concretia - who is not a "soft target" - to cover their escape. Given that the 'unwinder' is relatively safe to bystanders, despite its absurd killing power, she could have made the choice to use it because Sydney was around, and she would have had to fight someone literally made of concrete.

Except then Sydney's life was in immediate danger, and she needed the threat eliminated ASAP.

I'm going with "Maxima suggested using non-lethal ordnance" and "Oops" as "Cora had a choice, and choose to liquify". Just for a start, I don't think she carries only one weapon. She certainly was carrying the Altari "don't move or it'll hurt a lot" gadgets; what else does she have in her skintight suit?

I think the whole point is she choose to do this. And yeah, she saved Sydney's life, but added to her PTSD.

[Dragonus45]

Yea Cora has the same kind of weird teleportation hammer space tech as Dabbler. The closes thing I see to an excuse for not being able to swap to a less lethal round would be if she said she literally didn't have a single one on her "person". Which I could believe, but is really poor form for any experienced adventurer. Versatility is king after all.