OOTS #1219 - The Discussion Thread

[BarakDeathBlade]

That’s reaching a bit isn’t it? Your argument is that Oona is okay to go in solo because she goes in for a shorter time? Not much of a defense if you leave such a lag time for it to take effect
Or is it reading her mind to know she doesn’t care about the Gate?
Symbol traps aren’t usually artificial intelligences that keep count of people entering and leaving either. It’s simply a triggered spell

I think he means, Oona can go in solo, AND COME OUT, and it's a singular person.

Oona, Xykon and Redcloak went in, did NOT come out yet, and the wolf went in, so he counts as to their group.

Not loving this theory, not wedded to it, but that's my read on this viewpoint. Personally I'm going to sit back and make more popcorn while I wait.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

That’s reaching a bit isn’t it?

No, it is not.

GW

[BruceGee]

My prediction is that there will be a replay of the the big throne room scene in book 1 -- either Xykon defending the gate with a horde of bugbears, or maybe with the original scene reversed, and the OotS playing defense.

[Riftwolf]

My prediction is that there will be a replay of the the big throne room scene in book 1 -- either Xykon defending the gate with a horde of bugbears, or maybe with the original scene reversed, and the OotS playing defense.

Eh, hopefully the final battle will be more interesting than that. In fact, it definitely will be, because Xykon wasn't an epic Lich at that point of the comics history (and the Order have progressed beyond 'charge blindly unto glory' tactics).

[Goblin_Priest]

Eh, hopefully the final battle will be more interesting than that. In fact, it definitely will be, because Xykon wasn't an epic Lich at that point of the comics history (and the Order have progressed beyond 'charge blindly unto glory' tactics).

He wasn't?

I thought he was epic since before Redcloak met him.

[Schroeswald]

He wasn't?

I thought he was epic since before Redcloak met him.

He was definitely epic when he defeated Dorukan.

[danielxcutter]

I don’t think the Tomb of Kraagor is as complex as some of the theories, but at the same time I do think it’s more complicated than “get lucky picking doors and be strong enough to defeat the monsters”.

I mean not even that much more complex; that trap alone already likely means something that adds an extra layer on top of it as opposed to just brute force.

[Oxenstierna]

I like the idea that bypassing the trap is one of the steps to the gate.

In any fantasy world the rational expectation is for an adventuring party to fail to spot the trap and trigger it, or spot it and disarm it to continue.
Unless you own the dungeon, or expect to be pursued into it, there's no reason to leave it behind untouched.

If I read the rules correctly, it's also more difficult as a skill roll. In a 'self-aware stick figure fantasy parody' a dungeon building rogue would naturally choose the most difficult rule options...

If so, the 'physical might' aspect of the protection would come later, on or near the gate itself.
The magical sigil seal, the ghost-martyrs of the Sapphire Guard, and the 'your gate is in another pyramid' deception were all final challenges to overcome.

If it's a theme for the whole dungeon though, I did think the funniest 'physical might' requirement to the gate via traps would be for the party tank to have to take full damage: right in the face.
Go meatshield! Make some use of those d12 Barbarian hit dice! Leeroy Jenkins it!

It might also be fun if failing a mandatory saving throw was a requirement.

Made my reflex save.
Not again!
Can't you remember *not* to duck the whirling blades of death?
It's not my fault! I'm level 13, it's pure instinct!
Okay, get ready for a double-dose of the poison of slowness, and this time we're casting 'enlarge person'.

They'd also have to take whatever petty, pointless, or embarrasing traps are in the mix.

What's this?
Glitter.
Oh Glitterdust - blinds and dispels invisibility.
Nope, just glitter. Turns the deadliest warriors into sparkling vegetarian vampires.
I hate you guys.

[Riftwolf]

He wasn't?

I thought he was epic since before Redcloak met him.

I get the feeling he was retconned to epic some time around the Battle of Azure City. This is after getting his level bumped so he could fight an Ancient Silver Dragon, while in the first 100 strips he was probably below 15th level (before plot).

[Metastachydium]

with the original scene reversed, and the OotS playing defense

… with a horde of bugbears. Because, as we all know, Kraagor never died. Rather, he was polymorphed into several bugbears.

[danielxcutter]

… with a horde of bugbears. Because, as we all know, Kraagor never died. Rather, he was polymorphed into several bugbears.

...You know, I’m not sure what’s sarcasm and what’s not at this point.

[Riftwolf]

...You know, I’m not sure what’s sarcasm and what’s not at this point.

Honestly at this point in a threads lifespan there's little to distinguish them.

[Peelee]

Honestly at this point in a threads lifespan there's little to distinguish them.

It's like trying to distinguish between Star Trek and Star Wars. It's nearly impossible.

[Schroeswald]

It's like trying to distinguish between Star Trek and Star Wars. It's nearly impossible.

Star Wars is the one with Captain Yoda on the Starship Falcon exploring Corusearth and Star Trek is where the crew of the Millennium Enterprise fight the evil Darth Klingon right?

[InvisibleBison]

Star Wars is the one with Captain Yoda on the Starship Falcon exploring Corusearth and Star Trek is where the crew of the Millennium Enterprise fight the evil Darth Klingon right?

I think those are both things from the Silmarillion, actually.

[Metastachydium]

...You know, I’m not sure what’s sarcasm and what’s not at this point.

But it would explain so many things! (Should have gone with the blue text, right?)

It's like trying to distinguish between Star Trek and Star Wars. It's nearly impossible.

Stop trying to rerail the discussion!

[Peelee]

Star Wars is the one with Captain Yoda on the Starship Falcon exploring Corusearth and Star Trek is where the crew of the Millennium Enterprise fight the evil Darth Klingon right?

I think those are both things from the Silmarillion, actually.

Both of you forgot the blue telephone box operated by the doctors Bill and Ted McFly.

[Riftwolf]

I think those are both things from the Silmarillion, actually.

It's weird, I was going to write up an evolution ladder for discussion threads, and one of the stages was 'Star Wars and Tolkien battle for supremacy' followed by 'Winner vs Tarquin' and '#BelkarWontDie'

[Ghosty]

Star Wars is the one with Captain Yoda on the Starship Falcon exploring Corusearth and Star Trek is where the crew of the Millennium Enterprise fight the evil Darth Klingon right?

I've seen this episode. It's the one where Patrick Stewart yells, "I cannot take this Ring for you! Use the Force, Harry!"

That is the way.

[Goblin_Priest]

Obviously, Star Wars is the one where the protagonists get involved in the war with the Klingons, the war with the Romulans, the Dominion War, and the war with the Borg. Star Trek is the one with the protagonists trek across various planets while looking for their macguffins.

[Riftwolf]

Both of you forgot the blue telephone box operated by the doctors Bill and Ted McFly.

"Nobody calls me chicken, Iron Man! Nobody!" Neo

[Grey Watcher]

Obviously, Star Wars is the one where the protagonists get involved in the war with the Klingons, the war with the Romulans, the Dominion War, and the war with the Borg. Star Trek is the one with the protagonists trek across various planets while looking for their macguffins.

Which isn't nearly as good as Babylon 5. You know, that show about the Serenity getting stranded in a galaxy far, far away and having to make a long trek back home while fending off the Cylon Collective?

[Peelee]

Which isn't nearly as good as Babylon 5. You know, that show about the Serenity getting stranded in a galaxy far, far away and having to make a long trek back home while fending off the Cylon Collective?

I hear the new one is pretty so-so and is practically a shot-for-shot remake. I just couldn't get behind Dumbledore Calrissian.

[Ruck]

It's like trying to distinguish between Star Trek and Star Wars. It's nearly impossible.

One is sci-fi, and one is space opera. And if you don't know which is which, clearly you've never heard William Shatner sing.

[danielxcutter]

One is sci-fi, and one is space opera. And if you don't know which is which, clearly you've never heard William Shatner sing.

To be entirely honest, I've never even heard the name before.

[MoiMagnus]

It's like trying to distinguish between Star Trek and Star Wars. It's nearly impossible.

I'd give you that if you compare the last films of each, they're both the same kind of "Hollywood action films in space". But they used to be more different from each others.

Start Wars = Space Opera = You could get rid of the space theme without losing too much of the story (young boy discovers he is a wizard and that his real father is the evil right hand of the evil emperor, join a rebellion and defeat the evil empire by redeeming his father). If you have to see any political message, it's directed toward the past (WWII, etc), not the future.

Star Treck = Sci-fi = Nerd stuff which is supposed to be a plausible future with realistic technologies (up to the author's knowledges at the moment of writing). The fact that we're in the future of our real world is of major importance. While sci fi often present dystopias, Star Treck is usually more on the Utopia side and shows the kind of tolerant and advanced society we should aim for.

[danielxcutter]

So space operas are mostly taking a story and adapting it for space, and sci-fi is exploring the implications of the future we might get?

[Peelee]

Imean, if y'all are trying to get me to be serious for a second (which I object to and think is a terrible idea), space opera is a subset of science fiction, as science fiction is typically characterized by the the setting requiring or heavily using technology beyond what we are capable of.

[Potatopeelerkin]

So space operas are mostly taking a story and adapting it for space, and sci-fi is exploring the implications of the future we might get?

Honestly, I'll be surprised if there's a consensus on anything sci-fi-related, let alone the definitions of the genre(s). I definitely use those terms very differently to how MoiMagnus apparently uses them (I would argue that Star Trek is the space opera), but what do I know? I am but a humble earthling.

[Wildstag]

Oh, the no down-time campaign where all encounters are level appropriate is deserving of nothing but ridicule, but it appears to be fairly common, to the point that slower rest mechanics are often decried on game discussions as making daily/long rest abilities "completely unusable", because in many campaigns, "we spend a week in town recovering and visiting the local bars, temples, and whore houses" is an UNTHINKABLE thing to do. How could you ever get a whole week off without the monsters destroying the multiverse?

(I know it's a page back, but you gotta catch up somehow)

The last time the entire Order of the Stick got downtime was back when Elan was being shown the town by his dad. And even then, it was three days (at most) and was a pretty dense timeframe, with only Elan and Durkon getting meaningful relaxation (since V and Haley decided to do some slave-freeing in their time off).

Since about page 800 we have had non-stop action, with maybe a day or two on the sky-boat when they weren't active but were still preparing to be active. That's a full third of the comic. Sometimes, evil doesn't act according to the party's schedule, and you just have to always be on.

The Order gets very little downtime because there's so much of a level deficit they have to worry about.

Edit: kinda a nevermind moment, but I just remembered that the entire last 400 pages have only taken about a week an a half. Before then though, the Order rarely got downtime of longer than two days before the next big thing happened.