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  1. - Top - End - #661
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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    1. Joker's combos utilize an ability your Persona has. This is either their Elemental Spell if they've got one or if they have a healing spell...they use a healing spell. Doing this costs no SP if you just spam the combo. You can do this even out of combat. So get a persona with a heal, spam the combo until you're healed up and you're good to go.
    It seems to be hard-locked which move each Persona will do out of those combos - usually but not always corresponding to the element icon you see next to their name. So not just any Persona with a healing spell will do. I'm into the third dungeon and only recently acquired the first Persona that actually does a healing spell out of Joker's 3x light -> heavy combo, Principality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    2. You can change your teammate's abilities out of combat whenever you want when.
    I noticed that, and was quite surprised. Haven't had a reason to bring back any forgotten abilities yet though, I'm just getting to the point where characters need to ditch old abilities for new. I do like that this lets you re-order your Personas' abilities though, it's nice to arrange things in an order that makes sense to you personally, for easier selection in combat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    3. Morgana is vital with how lethal everything is. He learns a raise spell before the end of the first Jail. If you're getting stomped on, and chances are you will be until after the third Jail, you should keep him in the team.
    You must have done more grinding - or just used Morgana specifically more - than I if you got Recarm before the end of the first Jail, because I was into the second when I got it. Healers in general are quite helpful for sure though: Morgana, Makoto, and Sophie being the big three, with Anne being able to supplement them but only having single-target healing. And of course, keeping some of everything in Joker's array of Personas is always advisable, just like always in Persona games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    5. Get good with at least three characters. You'll thank me later, but seriously....get good at three characters. That shouldn't be hard as the biggest bit of advice I can give is to not use Joker as if they're the only playable character. Baton Passes are fun but more importantly if a character has an element the bigger enemies are weak against they're going to be a better use in combat. As #1, Joker's X X Y Y combo doesn't always use the same move. The rest of the Thieves have a set element and their combos will always proc that element so spamming their stuff is a solid choice.

    For reference, Alice gave me a rough time, died a few times on her until I used Ann who can imbue her whip with fire and beat her by the skin of my teeth. The rematch you get with her went flawlessly after I set a Fire using Persona to Joker and controlled Ann we didn't even go below half health. The second boss fight was even cleaner with the same tactic and the applicable character. I can't imagine this system not working for the other bosses either. Works against mini-bosses too. Switching between characters, unlike other games in a related franchise, is just something you should be doing. Keep in mind though Joker won't change Personas if you don't do it yourself.
    Honestly, you probably could play the game as just Joker once you get used to how it works, as long you kept a diverse enough array of Personas that he could hit the weaknesses of anything you come across - though with how few Personas there are in this game compared to usual Persona titles most likely you'll have one or two lagging behind the rest in levels at any given point, which could be an issue (I'm currently waiting on a new Wind Persona to replace my High Pixie, who is a good 10+ levels behind most of the Personas I'm now using, for instance). But you'll definitely be making it harder on yourself to try doing that, especially early on. Spreading out SP costs by using everybody is definitely recommended. Plus, with the "Master Arts" system, characters do actively get better the more you personally use them. They'll level up just fine if you don't, but won't ever gain those abilities, some of which can be quite handy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    7. The Bond that gives you SP and HP after winning battles is really expensive and probably not helpful by the time you've got the chance to raise it's rank. Conversely all the buffs to specific stats and the Bond for physical/magical attack up by Persona are worth a ton.
    Eh, the first level of that auto-recovery bond is fairly minor I'd agree, but I saved up for the second and think it's fairly noticeable (for SP, anyway, which is obviously the one you take it for). So far I've taken to saving BP for it every time the amount I gain rises to the point where three levels will cover the cost, and it seems to be working out.

    Conversely, I actually haven't touched the stat buff ones, and only have the first level on the physical/magical attack up ones. The "get more rewards" and "be able to do more stuff" bonds have seemed more useful than straight stats to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    OK, defeated first Jail boss and got to the road trip section in P5S. Annoyingly, it's actually possible to miss things--Ryuji texted me before we left saying he wanted to show me something and to speak to him outside. First person I saw outside was Sojiro, and when I spoke to him he said something along the lines of "You off now?" and I foolishly answered yes, no realising that was the trigger to start the actual road trip. So, I missed whatever Ryuji was going to show me, hope that wasn't important.
    It wasn't important, but it's one of those little character scenes that help make the series fun. He was going to take you to a ramen place to hang out and eat, and of course minor shenanigans ensue. Only gameplay effect is that you missed out on some bond XP.

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    One other thing: they really shouldn't bother have the boss give you their life story while you're trying to defeat them, because what with it being a real-time combat system and everything being very noisy at the height of battle, it's neither possible to spare time to read the subtitles or hear what the boss is saying. Hope there wasn't any important information there either!
    Agreed - between the pace of battle, the music playing, and the sound effects of the fight, it's impossible to focus on what anyone is saying. Unfortunately they do keep inserting dialogue into fights, though I don't think any of it is critical.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2021-03-01 at 05:27 PM.
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    "When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis

  2. - Top - End - #662
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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post

    One other thing: they really shouldn't bother have the boss give you their life story while you're trying to defeat them, because what with it being a real-time combat system and everything being very noisy at the height of battle, it's neither possible to spare time to read the subtitles or hear what the boss is saying. Hope there wasn't any important information there either!
    None of it is actually important. I'm playing with Japanese VAs so I checked to make sure. It's just banter back and forth about stuff you know from cutscenes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    It seems to be hard-locked which move each Persona will do out of those combos - usually but not always corresponding to the element icon you see next to their name. So not just any Persona with a healing spell will do. I'm into the third dungeon and only recently acquired the first Persona that actually does a healing spell out of Joker's 3x light -> heavy combo, Principality.
    Pixie is another and you get them in the first Jail.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    You must have done more grinding - or just used Morgana specifically more - than I if you got Recarm before the end of the first Jail, because I was into the second when I got it. Healers in general are quite helpful for sure though: Morgana, Makoto, and Sophie being the big three, with Anne being able to supplement them but only having single-target healing. And of course, keeping some of everything in Joker's array of Personas is always advisable, just like always in Persona games.
    I actually didn't have it at the end of the first Jail, but from all the guides and other tips I've read indicate that you should. I was only level 12 when I finished Alice's Jail and he learns it at 18 and 18 seems to be the "you should be here" level for Shibuya.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Honestly, you probably could play the game as just Joker once you get used to how it works, as long you kept a diverse enough array of Personas that he could hit the weaknesses of anything you come across
    No. You honestly cannot. That's all I can say without spoilers.



    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Eh, the first level of that auto-recovery bond is fairly minor I'd agree, but I saved up for the second and think it's fairly noticeable (for SP, anyway, which is obviously the one you take it for). So far I've taken to saving BP for it every time the amount I gain rises to the point where three levels will cover the cost, and it seems to be working out.
    Between being able to leave Jails, plentiful money and recovery items and a lot of other Bonds that are good it's not worth prioritizing. They're 15 a pop. That's a lot of other Bonds right there.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Conversely, I actually haven't touched the stat buff ones, and only have the first level on the physical/magical attack up ones. The "get more rewards" and "be able to do more stuff" bonds have seemed more useful than straight stats to me.
    Those are good, the only ones I'd say are worth taking over raising Stats are the ones that give you more Mask chances and more Bond points.

  3. - Top - End - #663
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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    Pixie is another and you get them in the first Jail.
    Pixie does Zio out of that combo, not a healing spell. It's actually the one I was thinking of when noting that the spell you get there doesn't always corresponding to the icon next to its name, since it does have the healing spell icon there. (Edit: just found another example: Arahabaki, has the Curse icon, but does a physical attack out of that combo.)

    Trust me, I kept Pixie in my inventory for an inordinately long time because of that, since it turns out that the first actual lightning Persona you get is Mothman, around level 30. Which is weird as hell, by the way, strange that one of the four classic elements took that long to get a Persona that focused on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    Between being able to leave Jails, plentiful money and recovery items and a lot of other Bonds that are good it's not worth prioritizing. They're 15 a pop. That's a lot of other Bonds right there.
    They're not 15 a pop, their cost starts lower and increases at each rank, like every other bond. 10 for level 1, 15 for 2, IIRC, and 25 for 3. Don't have 3 yet to know what comes after it, or if that's the maximum (I've had a couple of bonds that maxed out at 3 already).
    Last edited by Zevox; 2021-03-01 at 10:41 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #664
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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Pixie does Zio out of that combo, not a healing spell. It's actually the one I was thinking of when noting that the spell you get there doesn't always corresponding to the icon next to its name, since it does have the healing spell icon there.

    Trust me, I kept Pixie in my inventory for an inordinately long time because of that, since it turns out that the first actual lightning Persona you get is Mothman, around level 30. Which is weird as hell, by the way, strange that one of the four classic elements took that long to get a Persona that focused on it.
    I won't trust you. I have used Pixie to cast Dia on myself with that combo. I have video evidence as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    They're not 15 a pop, their cost starts lower and increases at each rank, like every other bond. 10 for level 1, 15 for 2, IIRC, and 25 for 3. Don't have 3 yet to know what comes after it, or if that's the maximum (I've had a couple of bonds that maxed out at 3 already).
    Oracle Recovery is 15 Bond Points for Rank 1. 20 for Rank 2, so on and so forth.

    Last edited by Razade; 2021-03-01 at 10:47 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #665
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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    I won't trust you. I have used Pixie to cast Dia on myself with that combo. I have video evidence as well.
    Okay, this confused me so much that I went and pulled Pixie out of the Velvet Room just to figure it out. Looks like Joker actually has two combos that he gets spells out of: the 3x light -> heavy one that I was referring to, and a 2x light -> 2x heavy one that I did not know existed. I just assumed that ended after one use of heavy, like every other Warriors combo ever. Pixie gets Zio out of the former, but Dia out of the latter.
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  6. - Top - End - #666
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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Okay, this confused me so much that I went and pulled Pixie out of the Velvet Room just to figure it out. Looks like Joker actually has two combos that he gets spells out of: the 3x light -> heavy one that I was referring to, and a 2x light -> 2x heavy one that I did not know existed. I just assumed that ended after one use of heavy, like every other Warriors combo ever. Pixie gets Zio out of the former, but Dia out of the latter.
    I told you the combo! Light 2, Heavy 2.

    I know my stuff. I bring receipts.
    Last edited by Razade; 2021-03-01 at 11:01 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #667
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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    I told you the combo! Light 2, Heavy 2.

    I know my stuff. I bring receipts.
    If you want to talk about receipts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    1. Joker's combos utilize an ability your Persona has. This is either their Elemental Spell if they've got one or if they have a healing spell...they use a healing spell. Doing this costs no SP if you just spam the combo. You can do this even out of combat. So get a persona with a heal, spam the combo until you're healed up and you're good to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    Pixie is another and you get them in the first Jail.
    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    I won't trust you. I have used Pixie to cast Dia on myself with that combo. I have video evidence as well.
    At no point in the conversation did you specify the combo.
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  8. - Top - End - #668
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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    If you want to talk about receipts...

    At no point in the conversation did you specify the combo.
    Except

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    5. Get good with at least three characters. You'll thank me later, but seriously....get good at three characters. That shouldn't be hard as the biggest bit of advice I can give is to not use Joker as if they're the only playable character. Baton Passes are fun but more importantly if a character has an element the bigger enemies are weak against they're going to be a better use in combat. As #1, Joker's X X Y Y combo doesn't always use the same move. The rest of the Thieves have a set element and their combos will always proc that element so spamming their stuff is a solid choice.
    I got the buttons flipped because I don't know the Switch Buttons, to be fair, but under any form of charitable reading and knowledge of Warrior I think you could suss out I was talking about 2 Light Attacks, 2 Strong attacks. I absolutely gave the combo.

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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    I actually didn't have it at the end of the first Jail, but from all the guides and other tips I've read indicate that you should. I was only level 12 when I finished Alice's Jail and he learns it at 18 and 18 seems to be the "you should be here" level for Shibuya.
    I'm about level 15, IIRC, so the only way I can see you could get to 18 before leaving Shibuya is by grinding out the wazoo, as far as I can see.

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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    I'm about level 15, IIRC, so the only way I can see you could get to 18 before leaving Shibuya is by grinding out the wazoo, as far as I can see.
    A lot of the guides and tips/tricks things I've head have presumed some level of grinding. I don't think I'd want to grind in Shibuya. Sendai's a lot easier to grind at, a better placement and assortment of Shadows to fight and each area is larger. I still haven't ground a whole lot and things are remaining easier than they were in Shibuya.

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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    Quote Originally Posted by Wookieetank View Post
    With oil production, I have an entire powerplant setup that creates plastic and rubber to be fed into AWESOME sinks so that I have a non-stop source of Petroleum Coke. Probably not the most efficient setup, but it works. I've also gotten a liquid fuel power plant up and running, but I'm sure it still needs some tweaking, got distracted trying to find aluminum and getting that up and running.
    Just a heads-up, there's a huge update coming in like two weeks that will completely redo the way Aluminum production works. The devs have strongly recommended you don't do too much with it right now, since you're going to find all your production lines broken and in need of a redo when the update hits. Fiddling around a bit with aluminum? Probably fine. Building a large-scale manufacturing centre? A great way to find yourself spending ten hours fixing it all later.
    Last edited by DaedalusMkV; 2021-03-02 at 04:32 AM.
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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    Got into the second Jail in Strikers. I have to say, I'm not particularly impressed with the pacing of the game. The mainline Persona 5 has much slower combat than Strikers, it being turn-based, but the non-combat stuff you're doing is more interesting and takes less faffing around. Strikers is a ball of fun once you get into a Jail, but the hour and a half of clicking through dialogue and (especially!) walking all around town trying to find the completely unmarked people you have to interact with in order to finish your investigation are mostly dull. If the dialogue wasn't as well written or as frequently amusing as it is I'd just be skipping right through those sections, story be damned!

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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    Well, it happened to me, finally.

    A thief tried to hold up my werewolf in Skyrim.
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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    I got the buttons flipped because I don't know the Switch Buttons, to be fair, but under any form of charitable reading and knowledge of Warrior I think you could suss out I was talking about 2 Light Attacks, 2 Strong attacks. I absolutely gave the combo.
    If you count an aside in separate part of your post about a different subject, then sure, I suppose you did .

    Couldn't have called you out on the Switch buttons thing anyway, since I'm playing on Playstation, so those are square and triangle to me. That's why I called them light and heavy instead (even though I'm not sure if the game technically calls them that), gets the point across in a system-neutral way.
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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Well, it happened to me, finally.

    A thief tried to hold up my werewolf in Skyrim.
    I mean, its understandable. One can occasionally find gold or even gemstones on the odd wolf corpse in skyrim: anyone with half a brain would conclude that "giant, seemingly sentient wolf = high chance of loot".

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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    Quote Originally Posted by Taevyr View Post
    I mean, its understandable. One can occasionally find gold or even gemstones on the odd wolf corpse in skyrim: anyone with half a brain would conclude that "giant, seemingly sentient wolf = high chance of loot".

    "I am a giant wolf."
    "And I am a khajjit. I do not make assumptions."
    "I'm not wearing pants."
    "You might have swallowed something."
    Last edited by Mark Hall; 2021-03-02 at 06:48 PM.
    The Cranky Gamer
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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    To be fair, you most likely do have a lot of good loot on you despite being seemingly naked.

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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    Quote Originally Posted by DaedalusMkV View Post
    Just a heads-up, there's a huge update coming in like two weeks that will completely redo the way Aluminum production works. The devs have strongly recommended you don't do too much with it right now, since you're going to find all your production lines broken and in need of a redo when the update hits. Fiddling around a bit with aluminum? Probably fine. Building a large-scale manufacturing centre? A great way to find yourself spending ten hours fixing it all later.
    I think I threw together my aluminum plant in about 30mins or so. Took me far longer to find the deposits and figure out how to get it somewhere useful. Ended up having to creatively spiral a train track to get up the rock face that was between my bases and the deposits. Been meaning to check out multiplayer at some point soon, I figure my 90+ hours playing blind is due for some outside influence on build ideas.
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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    I'm seriously considering starting over after the patch, because my current setup is so bad that I'm slowly tearing it down and rebuilding anyway.

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    Default Re: What are you playing 4: HD Remaster Gold Collector's Edition Thread of the Year

    So, Persona 5 Strikers progress: I've just completed the fifth Jail. The fourth and fifth felt notably shorter than the first three, and in general I'd say the game's been consistently getting easier since the first - probably partially due to me getting the hang of how it needs to be played compared to other games, partially due to getting more potent abilities and personas. My party's average level is now about 40 (with Joker at 45), and I have almost all of the mastery arts unlocked on everyone.

    Spoiler: Fifth Jail spoiler.
    Show
    The one missing mastery art being Zenkichi/Wolf's final one. Going to be focusing on using him until he gets that.

    Have to say, I was quite pleased with his Awakening, and his storyline and development overall. Like Labrys from Persona 4 Arena, he's a spin-off character who feels just as well-written as the originals, and is a great addition to the team. And it is pretty cool to have an actual adult Persona-user for once. Who's an actual ally and party member, anyway, since I guess you could technically point to Persona 4's killer as an adult Persona-user.

    Gameplay-wise though, eh, not one of my favorites (in the below list I'd put him in the "eh" category - leaving him off for spoiler reasons). His attacks are so slow when he's not in Fury mode, and the health drain when in it is pretty rough. Up until getting his third mastery art it feels almost crippling, and even with that I hesitate to use it too much (though admittedly the effect of that is substantial). And the healing he gets from his specials and gun when not in Fury mode feels paltry by comparison, even with the boost from his second mastery art. Also, the fact that his "element" is Almighty just means that he can never hit weak points (except for the few things that are weak to guns), which makes him less useful than any other party member against anything that has a weak point to hit. I don't know, I feel like they had a cool idea for how to make his gameplay work with Fury mode and the free healing when outside it, but didn't balance it right.

    Overall, I'd say I'm very pleased with the story - not a surprise from a Persona game, but always great to see a game end up with a story and characters that I enjoy this much, even if it's become something I can expect given the franchise. Still have to finish it to see if they can stick the landing, but I'm hopeful. Hell, if they can, there's a chance I might end up liking the story here over the original P5 itself, if they avoid any serious missteps such as I felt that game made at certain points.

    Gameplay-wise, also enjoying it. I'd say it's less good at what these Warriors spin-offs usually do than the others (letting you do big, flashy things and feel powerful mowing down hordes of enemies with relative ease), but this style works out for how they seem to want this particular game to be. As far as the characters go, I'd say I'd break down how much I like playing them like so:
    - Favorites: Yusuke, Anne.
    - Like: Haru, Makoto, Joker, Ryuji.
    - Eh: Morgana, Sophie.

    Ryuji rose up in my esteem after unlocking some of his mastery arts - he feels like he actually works once you've got the one that shortens the charge times on his charge-up heavy attacks, and the final one that increases the duration and effectiveness of his super armor special ability helps a lot too. Sophie's my least favorite because she just feels weird with those yo-yos for her weapons, and her timing-based gimmick is too difficult and gives way too little payoff to be interesting. I keep both her and Morgana in my party rotation to keep them leveled up on par with the rest, but mostly because they're two of the three healers in the group, and I don't want to have to rely on Makoto entirely for that. I haven't used them since finishing their mastery skills aside from taking brief control to cast a healing spell, and that's probably all I'll do with them from here.

    Also, on the subject of mastery arts, the characters I'd most recommend focusing on getting those for are Ryuji and Haru. Ryuji for he reasons mentioned above, Haru because her third gives her unlimited ammo on her basic heavy attack (the one that shoots her grenade launcher while her Persona simultaneously fires a blast), making her the best gunner and general crowd-control character in the game. Her fourth mastery art is also quite very good, letting her held heavy attacks speed up and giving them super armor. With a lot of the other characters the mastery arts often feel like minor bonuses or tricks you can easily forget about, but those two benefit from those specific ones quite substantially.
    Last edited by Zevox; Today at 12:09 AM.
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