New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 1 of 6 123456 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 152
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2012

    Default Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    Welcome to Optimization Stadium, the field of combat for our storied competition. Here the contestants will be transmuting lead into gold as we showcase the overlooked, underused, weird, wild, and wonky prestige classes.

    This round we turn to Drow of the Underdark. American Thanksgiving is approaching, so check out this turkey! Tent your fingers and practice your evil laugh, it's time for Insidious Corruptor!


    Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef. Here in Optimization Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D 3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

    Contestants: You will need to present a full 20-level build for your entry. Also required is a rundown of how your build works at lower levels, to demonstrate that it is a functional character that could be played from 1-20 in a real game. Traditionally contestants give "snapshots" of tactics and abilities at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20. The purpose of these snapshots is not just to showcase your use of the SI, it is to demonstrate that your character is playable at every level. For this reason, it's still worth giving a snapshot before you have entered the SI.

    Menu: The "special ingredient" can be drawn from any legal source. Originally, the plan was to mostly use Core and Completes, but that was a long time ago, and we've started running out of interesting classes to use if we restrict ourselves to those.
    32 point-buy is the presumed creation method.
    If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

    Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Here's a guide to most of what has and hasn't been updated. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden. Please refrain from using Taint unless it's necessary for the Secret Ingredient.
    NB: Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. This includes the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures given in Dragon Magazine, and the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.

    Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 02:00 GMT on Monday, December 7th, 2020 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, The Viscount. You may submit build by email if it is too large for a single PM. Please put the name of your build in the subject line of your PM. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 13:59 GMT on Sunday, December 20th, 2020 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

    Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.
    Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
    Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is considered in poor taste, and judges are asked to take a dim view of this option, taking it into account while grading. Other things that will cause penalties here are excessive multi-classing, and classes that don't fit the concept.Please note the following: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using conflicting setting material may result in a penalty to Elegance at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. In that same vein, drawing solely from the Core 3 (and the d20 SRD) should not be punished for lacking Originality.
    Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!
    Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
    Spoiler
    Show
    NAME OF ENTRY
    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    7th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    8th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    9th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    10th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    11th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    12th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    13th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    14th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    15th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    16th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    17th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    18th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    19th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    20th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities

    Code immediately below (spoiler).
    Spoiler
    Show
    [table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
    [tr]
    [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]1st[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]2nd[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3rd[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]4th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]5th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]6th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]7th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]8th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]9th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]10th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]11th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]12th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]13th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]14th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]15th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]16th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]17th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]18th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]19th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]20th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]

    For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
    Spoiler
    Show
    Spells per Day/Spells Known
    Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
    1st - - - - - - - - - -
    2nd - - - - - - - - - -
    3rd - - - - - - - - - -
    4th - - - - - - - - - -
    5th - - - - - - - - - -
    6th - - - - - - - - - -
    7th - - - - - - - - - -
    8th - - - - - - - - - -
    9th - - - - - - - - - -
    10th - - - - - - - - - -
    11th - - - - - - - - - -
    12th - - - - - - - - - -
    13th - - - - - - - - - -
    14th - - - - - - - - - -
    15th - - - - - - - - - -
    16th - - - - - - - - - -
    17th - - - - - - - - - -
    18th - - - - - - - - - -
    19th - - - - - - - - - -
    20th - - - - - - - - - -
    Code immediately below (spoiler)
    Spoiler
    Show
    [B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
    [table="class:head alt1 alt2"]
    [tr]
    [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
    [th][B]0lvl[/B][/th]
    [th][B]1st[/B][/th]
    [th][B]2nd[/B][/th]
    [th][B]3rd[/B][/th]
    [th][B]4th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]5th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]6th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]7th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]8th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]9th[/B][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]1st[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]2nd[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3rd[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]4th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]5th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]6th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]7th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]8th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]9th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]10th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]11th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]12th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]13th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]14th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]15th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]16th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]17th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]18th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]19th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]20th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]

    For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
    Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

    Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.

    So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

    We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM. If there are no votes, Honorable Mention will go to the chairman's favorite build.

    Past Competitions

    Courtesy of some wonderful volunteers, there is a handy-dandy spreadsheet guide to all previous builds here.

    Spoiler: The First Hundred
    Show
    Iron Chef I: Entropomancer
    Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent
    Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage
    Iron Chef IV: Stonelord
    Iron Chef V: War Chanter
    Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks
    Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept
    Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist
    Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord
    Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar
    Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo
    Iron Chef XII: War Mind
    Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante
    Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song
    Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master
    Iron Chef XVI: Assassin
    Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante
    Iron Chef XVIII: Unseelie Dark Hunter
    Iron Chef XIX: Dread Pirate
    Iron Chef XX: Incandescent Champion
    Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker
    Iron Chef XXII: Dervish
    Iron Chef XXIII: Divine Crusader
    Iron Chef XXIV: Tactical Soldier
    Iron Chef XXV: Scion of Tem-Et-Nu
    Iron Chef XXVI: Shadowdancer
    Iron Chef XXVII: Mindbender
    Iron Chef XXVIII: Cryokineticist
    Iron Chef XXIX: Consecrated Harrier
    Iron Chef XXX: Initiate of Pistis Sophia
    Iron Chef XXXI: Shadow Sentinel
    Iron Chef XXXII: Temple Raider of Olidammara
    Iron Chef XXXIII: Drow Judicator
    Iron Chef XXXIV: Dragon Disciple
    Iron Chef XXXV: Death Delver
    Iron Chef XXXVI: Acolyte of the Skin
    Iron Chef XXXVII: Justiciar
    Iron Chef XXXVIII: Hand of the Winged Master
    Iron Chef XXXIX: Renegade Mastermaker
    Iron Chef XL: Nightsong Infiltrator
    Iron Chef XLI: Geomancer
    Iron Chef XLII: Shadowblade
    Iron Chef XLIII: Bladesinger
    Iron Chef XLIV: Urban Soul
    Iron Chef XLV: Talon of Tiamat
    Iron Chef XLVI: Cipher Adept
    Iron Chef XLVII: Cold Iron Warrior
    Iron Chef XLVIII: Shadow Sun Ninja
    Iron Chef XLIX: Thrall of Orcus
    Iron Chef L: Corrupt Avenger
    Iron Chef LI: Black Flame Zealot
    Iron Chef LII: Anointed Knight
    Iron Chef LIII: Zerth Cenobite
    Iron Chef LIV: Osteomancer
    Iron Chef LV: Mountebank
    Iron Chef LVI: Dwarven Defender
    Iron Chef LVII: Darkrunner
    Iron Chef LVIII: Spellsword
    Iron Chef LIX: Fleet Runner of Ehlonna
    Iron Chef LX: Lasher
    Iron Chef LX(II): Acolyte of the Ego
    Iron Chef LXII: Dungeon Lord
    Iron Chef LXIII: Witchborn Binder
    Iron Chef LXIV: Slime Lord
    Iron Chef LXV: Thunder Guide
    Iron Chef LXVI: Dwarven Chanter
    Irogn Chef LXVII: Gnome Giant Slayer
    Iron Chef LXVIII: Fang of Lolth
    Iron Chef LXIX: Shiba Protector
    Iron Chef LXX: Order of the Bow Initiate
    Iron Chef LXXI: Silver Key
    Iron Chef LXXII: Spellfire Channeler
    Iron Chef LXXIII: Flux Adept
    Iron Chef LXXIV: Crinti Shadow Marauder
    Iron Chef LXXV: Thief of Life
    Iron Chef LXXVI: Legacy Champion
    Iron Chef LXXVII: Great Rift Skyguard
    Iron Chef LXVIII: Risen Martyr
    Iron Chef LXXIX: Black Blood Hunter
    Iron Chef LXXX: Master of Many Forms
    Iron Chef LXXXI: Serene Guardian
    Iron Chef LXXXII: Elocator
    Iron Chef LXXXIII: Winterhaunt of Iboorighu
    Iron Chef LXXXIV: Waverider
    Iron Chef LXXXV: Astral Dancer
    Iron Chef LXXXVI: Twisted Lord
    Iron Chef LXXXVII: Shadowsmith
    Iron Chef LXXXVIII: Arboreal Guardian
    Iron Chef LXXXIX: Thrall of Demogorgon
    Iron Chef XC: Bloodstorm Blade
    Iron Chef XCI: Fatemaker
    Iron Chef XCII: Eye of the Xanathar
    Iron Chef XCIII: Hoardstealer
    Iron Chef XCIV: Doomlord
    Iron Chef XCV: Gnomish Artificer
    Iron Chef XCVI: Oozemaster
    Iron Chef XCVII: Aerial Avenger
    Iron Chef XCVIII: Visionary Seeker
    Iron Chef XCIX: Life Eater
    Iron Chef C: Swiftblade

    Iron Chef CI: Night Mask Deathbringer
    Iron Chef CII: Blade Dancer
    Iron Chef CIII: Psion Uncarnate
    Iron Chef CIV: Atavist
    Iron Chev CV: Primeval
    Iron Chef CVI: Disciple of Mammon
    Last edited by The Viscount; 2020-12-06 at 02:18 AM.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
    Awards

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    FAQ:
    Q: What's this even about?
    A: I'm glad you asked, actually...

    Q: Is Dragon Compendium Allowed?
    A: Yes (as well as its Errata), but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

    Q: What about 3.0 materials?
    A: 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

    Q: Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources?
    A: The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

    Q: What about online sources in general?
    A: If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

    Q: Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. In a similar vein, LA buyoff and fractional BAB are also disallowed. Bloodlines and the Retraining options presented in the PHB2 are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

    Q: What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean?
    A: As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

    Q: What's the minimum score in a category?
    A: Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is mechanically illegal by the RAW, the judge may give the build a score of 0 in Elegance, and proceed to judge the entry as if the offending material was not included. Failing to meet a special requirement for a prestige class does not merit a 0, but may qualify for a penalty, at the judge's discretion. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

    Q: Creatures and templates with no listed LA are playable, right?
    A: No. No listed LA is equivalent to LA: -. It is not suitable for PCs. If you use it, expect judges to look extremely disfavorably on it.

    Q: So what's the deal with equipment, anyway?
    A: There is no official policy on how much equipment you should list. Historically, judges have frowned upon "item dependent" builds, but unfortunately the definition of that has been applied to mean anything from builds that don't function if you remove one very specific item, to builds that so much as mention a particular weapon. Builds that don't list gear should be assumed to buy useful generics - items to boost their primary stats, cloaks of resistance, appropriate magical weapons and armor, and so forth. If a build would find particular items useful, they should be listed, but experience suggests that the more generic you keep them, the more favorably judges are likely to look upon them, as a build being shut down because the Thundering Bagpipes of Urist McTrumpetbritches were unavailable is considered a weakness. Similarly, requiring items in order to be able to qualify for things tends to be frowned upon.

    Q: Do you have any other rules and guidelines on how to judge?
    A: We do, actually, designed to try and avoid unpleasantness we've encountered in past contests. The things we've come up with to avoid repeating this are given below.

    Spoiler
    Show
    One Mistake, One Penalty
    Spoiler: What does this mean?
    Show

    Judges are only allowed to penalise once for a given mistake. If someone messes up their skills and doesn't qualify for a PrC, ding them as hard as you like. Once. In one category. You don't then get to declare that because they didn't qualify for that PrC, they don't get those levels, and thus don't qualify for anything else. If Ranger is a common ingredient, ding them for Originality. Once. Don't also take off points for Two-Weapon-Fighting being a common ingredient.

    Non-exhaustive list of examples:

    Skills
    Allowed:
    • Giving a penalty for miscalculating the number of skill points gained
    • Giving a penalty for not having enough ranks to meet a prerequisite
    • Increasing the harshness of a skill miscalculation penalty if it affects critical skills including prereqs


    Not allowed:
    • Giving separate penalties for miscalculating skill points and for non-qualification where the non-qualification is solely caused by the miscalculation

    Prereqs
    Allowed:
    • Giving a penalty for not meeting prereqs
    • Scaling the penalty depending on how important the item that the build failed to qualify for is
    • Giving minimum score in UotSI for not qualifying for the SI
    • Not giving credit for (note: not the same as penalising for) tactics using feats or classes other than the SI that were not qualified for (but see below)


    Not Allowed:
    • "Cascading" failures to qualify - declaring that because a build doesn't qualify for a feat, for example, it also doesn't qualify for anything using that feat as a prereq
    • Treating a build as having fewer levels than it does because of FtQ for classes


    Other general things that are no longer allowed:
    • Penalizing because someone has chosen to build a tribute to an existing creative work
    • Deciding that a backstory has not met a fluff prerequisite well enough, or because its method of meeting it is "unrealistic". You may penalize if a fluff prereq is not addressed at all, but not for how well it is addressed.


    Note that these are protections, not licenses. Deliberately taking a feat that you know you don't qualify for hoping to just suck up the judging penalty for a feat that you couldn't normally take is not okay, and may lead to your build being disqualified.


    Q: Do you have any contest house rules or clarifications to ambiguous rules?
    A: Some that have come up in previous contests and needed answers to:
    • All creatures are proficient with any natural weapons they may have or acquire.
    • Bonus feats that are granted even if you do not meet the prerequisites do not require you to meet the prerequisites in order to use.
    • Able Learner's benefit applies to the level you take it.
    • Weapons from soulmelds are considered to be magic weapons.
    • Unarmed Swordsage grants Improved Unarmed Strike at level 1.
    • Not finishing Savage Progression is subject to a penalty to Elegance
    • One dispute per entry. Submit disputes by PM to the Chair.
    • Ghostwalk ghost is banned
    • Gold, silver, and bronze are awarded regardless of ties (e.g., 2 silvers does not preclude bronze)
    • Spelltouched feats are legal and can be taken just like any other feat when you meet the prerequisites and have the feat slot available.

    Q: Can I submit more than one entry?
    A: You may submit up to two entries into a given competition.

    Q: Does Lesser Drow count for qualification purposes?
    A: Yes. I'm not so cruel as to insist everyone take the +2 LA. Half drow is also acceptable.
    Last edited by The Viscount; 2020-11-21 at 10:02 PM.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
    Awards

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Venger's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    Oh no, not this.

    I'm in to cook.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
     
    WhamBamSam's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    I have at least one idea for this that I’m happy with after the usual significant struggling with the SI finding new and exciting ways to be frustrating.

    Iron Chef Medals
    Spoiler
    Show
    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

    Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Jerusalem
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    I have 2 ideas. One doesn't really work, the other feels kind of obvious and boring. We'll see.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GreataxeFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Pennsylvania

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    I've been patiently refreshing the forums for days waiting for this moment. I love it, I hate it, I have no ideas but I'm definitely in and I'll be sure to fully flesh out my build this time. Excited to take a crack at optimizing a caster.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Apr 2018

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    Yasss
    Iv'e been waiting FOREVER for a reason to mess with this class.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    This is... hmmmm.

    Half-casting is kind of the elephant in the room, but at least it seems to sorta-kinda hold together thematically, and at least it's not unreasonably stingy with use limits. The bottleneck is actions, not daily uses.

    Those prereqs are deceptively terrible. Which is to be expected, really.

    I will definitely have to spend time thinking about this one.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    ~ Gay all day, queer all year ~

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    Questions!

    When you gain additional claws of influence targets at 3/6/9, does that affect the number of targets you can affect with a single action, or do you have to spend a separate standard action on each?

    After using probe thoughts, does the target get a save against the confusion effect (since confusion the spell offers a save), or no? Similarly, does minion offer a save if you aren't directly opposing the target's nature?

    Greater manipulation is a supernatural ability without a listed action, but it seems that it's intended to be similar to manipulation, which is an immediate. Are we treating it as a standard or an immediate?
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    ~ Gay all day, queer all year ~

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Troll in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    Dec 2014

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    Swift Enchantment (Ex): Starting at 5th level, as an immediate action you can release a subject under the effect of claws of influence to cast an enchantment spell as a swift action.
    Wait what?

    This class is stupid and badly written. No ideas yet, but I'll try to build something.
    Spoiler: Collectible nice things
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Faily View Post
    Read ExLibrisMortis' post...

    WHY IS THERE NO LIKE BUTTON?!
    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    Libris: look at your allowed sources. I don't think any of your options were from those.
    My incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
    My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).
    Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Jerusalem
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    Rules of the competition question: does the able learner house-rule (works for the level it's taken) apply to other feats that affect skill points, class skills, etc?
    Last edited by H_H_F_F; 2020-11-21 at 05:39 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    Blast it Viscount, you got my hopes up for minute when I saw we were pulling from DotU. Oh well got an idea or two floating around.
    Iron Chef in the Playground LXVI - Honorable Mention : Azalin Stonecutter

    Iron Chef Home Cooking in the Playground II - Second Place : Takenaka Kenshin

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    Questions!

    When you gain additional claws of influence targets at 3/6/9, does that affect the number of targets you can affect with a single action, or do you have to spend a separate standard action on each?

    After using probe thoughts, does the target get a save against the confusion effect (since confusion the spell offers a save), or no? Similarly, does minion offer a save if you aren't directly opposing the target's nature?

    Greater manipulation is a supernatural ability without a listed action, but it seems that it's intended to be similar to manipulation, which is an immediate. Are we treating it as a standard or an immediate?
    I'll be generous. Claws of influence can affect multiple targets with a single action up to your limit.

    There is no save against the confusion effect from probe thoughts.

    Greater manipulation is an immediate action.

    Quote Originally Posted by ExLibrisMortis View Post
    Wait what?

    This class is stupid and badly written. No ideas yet, but I'll try to build something.
    Since as written that feature literally doesn't work, I'm going to fix it. When you release the target, you can cast an enchantment spell as a free action. You can call it Free Enchantment now if you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    Rules of the competition question: does the able learner house-rule (works for the level it's taken) apply to other feats that affect skill points, class skills, etc?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrimsonNekros View Post
    Blast it Viscount, you got my hopes up for minute when I saw we were pulling from DotU. Oh well got an idea or two floating around.
    There other classes from the book that are on my list. Their day will come.
    Last edited by The Viscount; 2020-11-21 at 09:46 PM.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
    Awards

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    Huh. I've actually got an idea for this. Gonna have to make sure I'm remembering the relevant rules correctly...

    EDIT: Nope, I was misremembering.
    Last edited by PoeticallyPsyco; 2020-11-21 at 09:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darths & Droids
    When you combine the two most devious, sneaky, manipulative, underhanded, cunning, and diabolical forces in the known universe, the consequences can be world-shattering. Those forces are, of course, players and GMs.
    Optimization Trophies

    Looking for a finished webcomic to read, or want to recommend one to others? Check out my Completed Webcomics You'd Recommend II thread!

    Or perhaps you want something Halloweeny for the season? Halloween Webcomics II

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    I'll be generous. Claws of influence can affect multiple targets with a single action up to your limit.
    So if we keep spending actions, is there a limit to how many creatures can be under claws of influence simultaneously? I just want to be clear that we're on the same page and making the same assumptions.

    The claws of influence ability only references number of targets in these two sentences: "at 1st level you can affect one target at a time. At 3rd level and every three levels thereafter, you gain an additional target." So if we're interpreting "affect one target at a time" to mean "affect one target as a standard action" and then "gain an additional target" as "affect additional creatures, simultaneously, all with the same standard action," there's no limit in the text saying that a 1st-level insidious corruptor couldn't affect target A on turn 1, target B on turn 2, target C on turn 3, and so on, as long as they all stay in range and the insidious corruptor keeps spending actions. Is this interpretation correct?
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    ~ Gay all day, queer all year ~

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    So if we keep spending actions, is there a limit to how many creatures can be under claws of influence simultaneously? I just want to be clear that we're on the same page and making the same assumptions.

    The claws of influence ability only references number of targets in these two sentences: "at 1st level you can affect one target at a time. At 3rd level and every three levels thereafter, you gain an additional target." So if we're interpreting "affect one target at a time" to mean "affect one target as a standard action" and then "gain an additional target" as "affect additional creatures, simultaneously, all with the same standard action," there's no limit in the text saying that a 1st-level insidious corruptor couldn't affect target A on turn 1, target B on turn 2, target C on turn 3, and so on, as long as they all stay in range and the insidious corruptor keeps spending actions. Is this interpretation correct?
    No. the limit is the limit for both how many creatures you can affect at once and the limit for how many creatures you can have under your thrall.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
    Awards

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    Thanks, Chief!
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    ~ Gay all day, queer all year ~

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Secret Lair on Sol c
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    i got a good (if somewhat bland and viable to vizzini'ed) idea, and a fun idea ... but I'm not quite able to make the fun one work atm ... lets see if it carries me somewhere

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    Never looked at this class before. What a hot mess. I guess if it were more than 5/10 it could be an interesting PrC. I'll have to see if I come up with any inspiration for a build.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    I actually kind of like this class.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darths & Droids
    When you combine the two most devious, sneaky, manipulative, underhanded, cunning, and diabolical forces in the known universe, the consequences can be world-shattering. Those forces are, of course, players and GMs.
    Optimization Trophies

    Looking for a finished webcomic to read, or want to recommend one to others? Check out my Completed Webcomics You'd Recommend II thread!

    Or perhaps you want something Halloweeny for the season? Halloween Webcomics II

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Jerusalem
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    I kept fiddling with my ideas. I think I found a couple of ways to make the boring entry slightly less boring. The not-boring one somewhat sucks, but that's life. I might end up submitting both, or neither. We'll see. Either way, I'm not judging again this round. Do we have any volunteers?

    Very interesting class, that's for sure.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bellona

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    Interesting. Got an inkling of a build, though knowing me I'll scrap and rewrite it a dozen times for nothing remotely resembling a good reason.

    A couple of questions for the chair, though...

    Swift Enchantment (Ex): Starting at 5th level, as an immediate action you can release a subject under the effect of claws of influence to cast an enchantment spell as a swift action.

    Irresistible Charm (Ex): At 6th level, as a swift action you can release a subject under the effect of claws of influence to increase the save DC of the next enchantment (charm) spell you cast by an amount equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum +1).

    Irresistible Compulsion (Ex): At 9th level, as a swift action you can release a subject under the effect of claws of influence to increase the save DC of the next enchantment (compulsion) spell you cast by an amount equal to your Charisma modifier minimum +1).
    Do these abilities solely work with spells, or would they also allow you to reduce the casting time or increase the DC of an appropriate spell-like ability or supernatural ability?
    Optimization Showcase in the Playground

    Former projects:
    Shadowcaster Handbook
    Archer Build Compendium

    Iron Chef Awards!
    Spoiler
    Show

    GOLD
    IC LXXVI: Talos
    IC LXXV: Alphonse Louise Constant
    IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
    IC XLV: Dead Mists
    IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
    IC XXXIX: AM-1468
    IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
    IC XXX: Jal Filius

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    They would also work on SLAs or Supernatural abilities, but only ones that are clearly based on enchantment or enchantment (charm/compulsion) spells or considered enchantment or enchantment (charm/compulsion) effects.
    Last edited by The Viscount; 2020-11-24 at 10:01 PM.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
    Awards

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Jerusalem
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    I think I'm going to submit both my entries, if I manage to. This always happens to me - the longer an idea rolls around in my head, the more I like it. I'll be very surprised if any of them place (unless we'll have a very small field this round) but I've come to believe their at least worth your time and mine.

    How is everybody else doing?

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    Either way, I'm not judging again this round. Do we have any volunteers?
    IF I don't enter, and IF I have the time IRL, I may judge.

    As it stands I'm working on a pretty "plain vanilla" entry - if I can spice it up a bit, I'm hoping to enter. Although sometimes a straightforward entry does surprisingly well, as people often Vizzini themselves out of these entries.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Hiro Quester's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2013

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    Oh wow. there are some very specific abilities in this class. Improving your skill checks on abilities (like diplomacy and bluff) that you can rack up sky-high checks on in many other ways. I'm intrigued and disturbed.

    I have a bizarre idea I hope I can make work (and make time to flesh out). that idea does not depend on the following, but these seem like they need further clarification:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    They would also work on SLAs or Supernatural abilities, but only ones that are clearly based on enchantment or enchantment (compulsion) spells or considered enchantment or enchantment (compulsion) effects.
    Does this mean you could release a creature from your claws of influence, to increase the DC of the next claws of influence (a Supernatural ability) you use?

    And can you use Irresistible Charm to release three creatures under our claws of influence, for +3(xCHA bonus) DC to your next enchantment? The Irresistible Charm rule says "you can release a subject under the effect of claws of influence", while others rules specify "a single creature under the effect of claws of influence".
    Last edited by Hiro Quester; 2020-11-24 at 06:41 PM. Reason: corrected +3Dc to +3(xCHA bonus) to DC
    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    This. This sooooo much. I wasn't expecting *two* thread wins from you.
    Spoiler: Avatar & Iron Chef Awards
    Show
    Awesome Dragonfire Bard Avatar by Oneris. A detailed version is here.
    Iron Chef awards:
    IC C Swiftblade: Honorable Mention for Pahika Kanikani, the Wardancer
    IC CII Blade Dancer: Silver for Hu Tiaowu, the Jungle Guardian

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro Quester View Post
    Oh wow. there are some very specific abilities in this class. Improving your skill checks on abilities (like diplomacy and bluff) that you can rack up sky-high checks on in many other ways. I'm intrigued and disturbed.

    I have a bizarre idea I hope I can make work (and make time to flesh out). that idea does not depend on the following, but these seem like they need further clarification:



    Does this mean you could release a creature from your claws of influence, to increase the DC of the next claws of influence (a Supernatural ability) you use?

    And can you use Irresistible Charm to release three creatures under our claws of influence, for +3(xCHA bonus) DC to your next enchantment? The Irresistible Charm rule says "you can release a subject under the effect of claws of influence", while others rules specify "a single creature under the effect of claws of influence".
    You cannot release a creature to increase the DC of the next claws of influence, because it is not an enchantment (charm) or an enchantment (compulsion) effect.

    You cannot release multiple creatures to get multiple bonus for irresistible charm/compulsion
    .
    There are 2 reasons. Firstly, you aren't normally capable of taking more than one swift action per turn, and since the action is to release "a subject" which still denotes a single creature, you would need one per creature. Secondly and more importantly, this would be an instance of same bonus source, and bonuses from the same source do not stack.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
    Awards

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GreataxeFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Pennsylvania

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Although sometimes a straightforward entry does surprisingly well, as people often Vizzini themselves out of these entries.
    OK, I'm still very new and have seen this thrown around a few times but I'm not quite certain what it means to 'Vizzini one's self'. Somewhere I can go look this up? Best I can come up with is that people overthink their builds like Vizzini in Princess Bride but I was thinking maybe there was a classic build or post somewhere? I'm slightly worried I am committing this fallacy but it's part of what I enjoy about character building. Thanks again for all the help and encouragement everyone, I plan to submit at least one build again this time!

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    I have one skeleton almost entirely done aside from the gritty details on the skills (and, of course, the write-up). It's... not embarrassing, but to be honest it's not quite as crazy as I usually go for. The core components are pretty solidly locked in, though, so I think I'm just going to have to play it out.

    I'm toying with the idea of a second build that gets somewhat kookier, but it hasn't solidly coalesced yet. I feel like I'm missing one key component (and I'm not sure what that key component is yet) to give it a real hook. But I'll keep tinkering with it and see if I can get something to pop.

    I think this is going to be a good round, though! The ingredient's hard to use, but it's hard to use in a good and satisfying way. Its class features are actually good! They just kind of go sideways compared to what you give up, and that's a more interesting challenge than "well, none of these abilities actually do anything in the first place." Kudos on the pick, Viscount!
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    ~ Gay all day, queer all year ~

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bellona

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII

    Quote Originally Posted by nosborm View Post
    OK, I'm still very new and have seen this thrown around a few times but I'm not quite certain what it means to 'Vizzini one's self'. Somewhere I can go look this up? Best I can come up with is that people overthink their builds like Vizzini in Princess Bride but I was thinking maybe there was a classic build or post somewhere? I'm slightly worried I am committing this fallacy but it's part of what I enjoy about character building. Thanks again for all the help and encouragement everyone, I plan to submit at least one build again this time!

    Nope, you got the reference perfectly! Basically a long time ago someone compared the process of trying to guess and second-guess whether or not someone else would submit the same thing to the famous scene involving Vizzini and the poison, and it stuck.

    These competitions tend to prompt a lot of very Vizzini-esque thought processes:

    “Oh, wow, this entry is just crying out for a rogue entry!”
    “Hm, but everyone’s going to do a rogue, it’s obviously the most expected. But hey, swordsage actually gets almost all the same benefits! That could be a cool alternative.”
    “But wait, everyone’s going to jump to the swordsage option to avoid rogue. Better think of something else. Maybe avoid the skill-focused entries altogether. Aha! But a zhentarim fighter works out nicely, and who would expect that!”
    (Five iterations later…)
    “OK, If you take these two odd ACFs and combine them, a hexblade/cleric is a perfect fit, and I can’t imagine anybody is going to do that one!”

    (Queue reveal, with four hexblade/clerics, two zhentarim fighters and precisely zero rogues or swordsages.)

    In any case, I have one build fully mapped out, including skills, and a good idea for the fluff as well. Just need to write it up! I also have a second idea that probably won’t end up getting submitted, but you never know...
    Optimization Showcase in the Playground

    Former projects:
    Shadowcaster Handbook
    Archer Build Compendium

    Iron Chef Awards!
    Spoiler
    Show

    GOLD
    IC LXXVI: Talos
    IC LXXV: Alphonse Louise Constant
    IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
    IC XLV: Dead Mists
    IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
    IC XXXIX: AM-1468
    IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
    IC XXX: Jal Filius

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •