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2020-11-21, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Does Steady Aim make Versatile Trickster pretty pointless?
So Steady Aim from Tasha's, you can use a bonus action and not move to get advantage. Or Versatile Trickster where you can use a bonus action of a pre-existing Mage Hand to get advantage against something within 5 feet of it.
Seems like there is even less reason to use Versatile Trickster than there was before, or am I missing something?Last edited by nickl_2000; 2020-11-21 at 02:25 PM.
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2020-11-21, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2013
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- Somewhere
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Re: Does Steady Aim make Versatile Trickster pretty pointless?
Well, Versatile Trickster doesn't prevent you from moving and works with multiple attacks.
It's Eberron, not ebberon.
It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals break loose.
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2020-11-21, 02:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
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- Maine
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Re: Does Steady Aim make Versatile Trickster pretty pointless?
The whole mage hand in combat angle is pretty bad to begin with for AT. The utility potential for it is awesome but action wise it's a joke. even then steady aim still has the movement cost which isn't something to overlook.
what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?
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2020-11-21, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2020
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- MN, US
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Re: Does Steady Aim make Versatile Trickster pretty pointless?
Yes, Careful Aim can be used in some of the situations in which you could have used Versatile Trickster.
Typical ways to get advantage:
* Cunning Action Hide: need cover and a Stealth roll, potential DM issues, offers defense as well
* Ally (probably owl familiar) Help: great action economy and range, vulnerable familiar, "cheesy" according to some
* Versatile Trickster: 30' range, needs pre-cast Mage Hand
* Careful Aim: can't move, including getting up from prone, positioning for cover purposes, or getting into melee.
Any other obvious ones?
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2020-11-21, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
- Location
- Somewhere
- Gender
Re: Does Steady Aim make Versatile Trickster pretty pointless?
It's Eberron, not ebberon.
It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals break loose.
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2020-11-21, 05:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2020
- Location
- MN, US
- Gender
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2020-11-21, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
- Location
- Somewhere
- Gender
Re: Does Steady Aim make Versatile Trickster pretty pointless?
It's Eberron, not ebberon.
It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals break loose.
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2020-11-21, 10:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2017
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2020-11-21, 10:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2020
- Location
- MN, US
- Gender
Re: Does Steady Aim make Versatile Trickster pretty pointless?
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2020-11-22, 12:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2017
Re: Does Steady Aim make Versatile Trickster pretty pointless?
Ah, I stand corrected. Nevermind then.
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2020-11-22, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2015
Re: Does Steady Aim make Versatile Trickster pretty pointless?
Last edited by Tanarii; 2020-11-22 at 12:50 PM.
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2020-11-22, 12:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
Re: Does Steady Aim make Versatile Trickster pretty pointless?
I question the "...be willing to reveal yourself to the enemy..." part. If you're Hidden, nothing about casting a spell that doesn't target anybody automatically breaks Stealth. You could certainly allow a reflexive Wisdom(Perception) check from all the monsters to see if the vocalization was unusual/loud enough to let them overcome it, but it isn't a guarantee. You are only guaranteed to break Stealth if you attack something.
It's one reason the Arcane Trickster doesn't "need" the Telekinetic feat to be viable, even though that feat is tempting for anybody who really likes their mage hand spells. Yes, it certainly helps - more range and silent, undetectable casting - but a rogue is going to have options to get out of sight and cast their invisible mage hand undetected, anyway.
An Arcane Trickster will be perfectly capable of scouting out a combat situation, casting mage hand while hiding, and alerting his party to the enemies' presence either with some sort of mage hand-enabled object interaction or with message or something.
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2020-11-22, 12:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
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2020-11-22, 04:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: Does Steady Aim make Versatile Trickster pretty pointless?
Fair. If you're far enough away they might not hear you. If you're willing to blow some of the duration to move into ambush range (or whatever range you want to start combat within if not ambushing) it's possible to pull off.
But it's certainly not worth assuming it will be available. OTOH if there's no other way to get advantage (or adjacent allies) in a fight, it could be worth the action in combat.
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2020-11-23, 12:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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2020-11-23, 06:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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- Poland
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Re: Does Steady Aim make Versatile Trickster pretty pointless?
Kind of feels like Steady Aim would obsolete more than one archer rogue strategy, since you can often stay put and just make one attack with advantage after another. Only relocating when enemies come into melee with you or targets aren't in range (and Sharpshooter helps with the second part).
Last edited by Morty; 2020-11-23 at 07:02 AM.
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2020-11-23, 07:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2015
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2020-11-23, 08:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2017
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Re: Does Steady Aim make Versatile Trickster pretty pointless?
According to this standing from prone doesn't trigger Booming Blade, so it shouldn't count for this either.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/11/09...lade-stand-up/Pronouns he/him/his
5e Homebrew Subclass Creation Guide - PEACH | Extended Homebrew Post
My Dungeon Master's Guild Entries, Pay What you want
Spoiler: 5e Subclass Contest Wins
● IV-Pinball Wizard
● VI-Luchador Bard
● XIII-Rogue, Tavern Wench
● XV-Monk, Way of the Shrine Guardian
● XVI-Cleric, Madness Domain
● XVIII-Fighter, Chef
● XXI-Artificer, Battling Bowman
● XXV-Ley Line Sorcerer
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2020-11-23, 08:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2018
- Location
- USA, Wisconsin
Re: Does Steady Aim make Versatile Trickster pretty pointless?
To be fair, getting up from being prone just halves your movement speed, it doesn't spend your movement speed. And likewise I don't think you going prone counts as moving either, just as going prone.
I just like Steady Aim since it gets rid of the whole 'hide as a bonus action every turn thing' especially since dm's have to keep track of your ever changing stealth score and then you always have to ask 'well do I have advantage from hiding last turn or not?'
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2020-11-23, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: Does Steady Aim make Versatile Trickster pretty pointless?
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2020-11-23, 10:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
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- Corvallis, OR
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Re: Does Steady Aim make Versatile Trickster pretty pointless?
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2020-11-23, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
Re: Does Steady Aim make Versatile Trickster pretty pointless?
That isn't right.
You can drop prone without using any of your speed. Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed. For example, if your speed is 30 feet, you must spend 15 feet of movement to stand up. You can’t stand up if you don’t have enough movement left or if your speed is 0.
If you have 30' movement and you stand up and then Dash, you have 60' of movement and you spent 15' on standing up, so you move 45'. If standing up halved your speed, you would only move 30' instead. They're different.
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2020-11-23, 02:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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2020-11-23, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
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2020-11-23, 03:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-11-23, 04:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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- Where I live.
Re: Does Steady Aim make Versatile Trickster pretty pointless?
Umm... there's a specific exception for having a movement speed of 0 in the "standing from prone" rules. It's in the first paragraph of page 191, as well as the rules that MaxWilson quoted.
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2020-11-23, 04:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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2020-11-23, 08:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
Re: Does Steady Aim make Versatile Trickster pretty pointless?
From how it's worded, it seems like steady aim combos well with manifest echo. It is really good for reducing the overlap between cunning action and manifest echo's movement. Obviously it doesn't work on the turn the echo is manifested but it's the kind of ability that you should have up anyway.
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