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2020-11-24, 12:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Shadow Walk & blink are usable in planes other than material plane?
Hello everyone. My first post here.
My adventurers got into the abyss to break some demoniac pacts.
The thing is, the mage have died, and they are trying to figure out ways to leave the place without his magic.
Before the end of the session, my player asked everyone to stay calm because he will use shadow Walk next session.
My question is: is it usable outside of material plane?(or any other with direct connection)
Same goes for blink spell, that make you swap between material plane and ethereal plane.
He is arguing that astral plane is a bridge between shadow plane and any other plane. But in that case, shouldn't he be able to travel to astral plane before?
Thx in advance
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2020-11-24, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019
Re: Shadow Walk & blink are usable in planes other than material plane?
RAW 3.5 is no. Shadow and ethereal are coterminous with and freely accessible from Material and Astral only. I have no doubt that some sideways shenanigans have been used at some point by either inventive players or module writers who regularly invented ways for opponents to do the impossible, but it should take more than a shadow walk.
Now, maybe you want them to escape there and then. It is not a sin to alter underlying assumptions, but it will likely change the world in more ways than simply allowing that particular avenue of escape from the Lower Planes.Last edited by Saint-Just; 2020-11-24 at 01:36 PM.
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2020-11-24, 02:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
Re: Shadow Walk & blink are usable in planes other than material plane?
Even if you could use shadow walk on the abyss, you'd still end up on the abyss, it's not a planar travel spell.
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2020-11-24, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019
Re: Shadow Walk & blink are usable in planes other than material plane?
MotP disagrees. Just like astral projection can only bring you to Astral, but then you can travel to other planes because Astral is connected to them (and the complication of manifesting a second body is a feature of the spell, not of the Astral itself), so can shadow walk be used to travel between planes if you choose to connect Shadow to Outer and\or Inner planes. It's as official as it can possibly be for an alternative cosmology.
Now, I have seen somewhere an idea of multiple Shadows and Ethereals, so all those spells are useful on Outer Planes but travel is as hard as it supposed to be, but that is not the same as merely "Shadow connects to more planes"
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2020-11-24, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
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Re: Shadow Walk & blink are usable in planes other than material plane?
Shadow walk actually is a planar travel spell...sort of. That's probably where this player's confusion comes in.
The spell description contains the following line:
Originally Posted by Shadow Walk
Same goes for the Ethereal Plane: while MotP offers various alternatives for homebrew cosmologies, by default it's only accessible from the Material Plane (or, if using the Planescape version, both the Prime and the Inner Planes), so spells interacting with it don't function on the Outer Planes.
So no, they could not escape the Abyss via creative use of shadow walk or blink, or for that matter ethereal jaunt or any other Ethereal- or Shadow-accessing spells.
EDIT: Partially swordsage'd by Saint-Just. But note that all the MotP stuff is, as I mentioned, optional rules for DMs; "official" alternate cosmology or not, none of it applies to the Great Wheel.Last edited by PairO'Dice Lost; 2020-11-24 at 03:10 PM.
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2020-11-25, 10:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
Re: Shadow Walk & blink are usable in planes other than material plane?
Last edited by Crake; 2020-11-25 at 10:20 PM.
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2020-11-27, 05:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2019
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- Massa, Italy
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Re: Shadow Walk & blink are usable in planes other than material plane?
Well in the Manual of the planes is said that
Originally Posted by Manual of the planes page 59
Originally Posted by Manual of the planes page 61
Originally Posted by Manual of the planes page 61
But there are even some variants , like one that let the good aligned planes connect only to the Astral plane, the evil aligned planes to the Shadow plane , while the neither good neither evil planes to Shadow plane and Astral plane
There is another variant that let it connect to each Plane but it tends to gains the traits of the other planes.
Passing to a 3.5 manual rather than a 3.0 we have the tome of magic that say at the same time
Originally Posted by Tome of Magic page 109Finally my computer is without any problem!
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2020-11-27, 02:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Shadow Walk & blink are usable in planes other than material plane?
Note the specific wording:
Originally Posted by MotP p.61
Passing to a 3.5 manual rather than a 3.0 we have the tome of magic that say at the same time
Originally Posted by MotP, p.62, Option: Without the Plane of Shadow
To be honest in a recent campaign where I had a shadowcaster finishing on the Outer Planes I ruled that the Shadow plane connected to them so the mysteries didn't have any problem
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2020-11-27, 03:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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Re: Shadow Walk & blink are usable in planes other than material plane?
RAW, the only requirement to cast shadow walk is to be in an area of shadowy illumination. When you cast it, it transports you to the edge of the shadow and material planes. Then you step off onto the material.
You can't use it to go other planes, but you can use it to leave them.Last edited by Zanos; 2020-11-27 at 03:36 PM.
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2020-11-27, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
Re: Shadow Walk & blink are usable in planes other than material plane?
Expedition to the Demonweb Pits p. 69 hasa bunch of Phase Spiders in an encounter explicitly stated to use their Ethereal Jaunt ability while in the Abyss (a non Ethreal coexistent/coterminous plane).
Interpret that information as you will.
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2020-11-27, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019
Re: Shadow Walk & blink are usable in planes other than material plane?
If you limit yourself to the Core that can be seen as RAW, but if it is so then Blink also works, since it says "you are blinking back and forth between the Material Plane and the Ethereal Plane". If you either allow for specific RAW from the MotP to override general RAW ("If the Plane of Shadow doesn’t exist....The following illusions with the shadow descriptor don’t work:greater shadow conjuration,....shadow walk....Within the D&D cosmology, the Plane of Shadow connects only with the Astral Plane and the Material Plane. The above limitations apply when a traveler is on an Inner Plane or an
Outer Plane.") it clearly shouldn't work. This is not a quote mining, anyone with a copy can check, it's all in one sidebar (underbar?). Or if you care for rules having even the remotest connection to fluff you don't even need MotP, just knowing the topology of the planes is enough.
As writers not parsing all the interactions between official rules.
I have nothing against house rules, and disjointed Ether (or Shadow) or multiple Ethers (or Shadows) are a relatively easy patch which allows abilities useful on Prime to be used (almost) everywhere while still making travel between planes difficult (even though I find limitations and changing circumstances more interesting, so as long as campaign doesn't end up being spent mostly on the Planes even Sorc/Bard who got the Shadow Walk have no cause to complain, much less the Wizard). Also as noted old Planescape had Ether connect with Inner Planes (but not Outer). But in the end it is house rules, and should be treated as such.
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2020-11-27, 05:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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Re: Shadow Walk & blink are usable in planes other than material plane?
I'll double check MotP when I have access to my books but planes not being coterminus does not prevent magical planar travel. You can plane shift directly to a non-coterminus plane, and the first thing shadow walk does is transport you to the intersection of the material and the shadow.
EDIT: You don't need to mine any quotes besides this one:
If the Plane of Shadow and a particular Outer Plane connect, then the caster should able to cast the shadow walk spell from that Outer Plane. But if the two planes aren’t coexistent or coterminous, the spell won’t work.Last edited by Zanos; 2020-11-27 at 06:04 PM.
If any idiot ever tells you that life would be meaningless without death, Hyperion recommends killing them!
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2020-11-28, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019