Best subclass choices if you can raise every class to 20 on one character?

[Greywander]

I've been playing with the idea of starting a solo game using a virtual DM where I play it more like D&D Skyrim, and have some homebrew that will allow me to (eventually) raise every class to 20th level on the same character. Realistically, I'll probably get bored and drop the game while still in tier 1 (but I might still enjoy myself up until then). This still leaves that academic question of which subclasses would be the most optimal to choose if you could level up all classes to 20 on a single character?

In analyzing this question, there's a couple of things I've noticed:

First, the action economy is working against us, so passive abilities will generally be more desirable than active abilities. Lots of classes and subclasses give us cool things to do with our actions, reactions, and bonus actions, but at the end of the day we can still only take one of each per turn. As such, a subclass like the Champion starts to look more appealing, as its always-on passive features won't compete for our actions.

Expanding on the above, the value of a feature is different than for a "normal" character. The Champion is generally considered to be on the weaker side of fighter subclasses. Not only do it's passive abilities work better in this context, but specific features gain more value because of how they synergize with the features of other classes that would normally be out of reach. For example, the improved critical hit range becomes a lot stronger when combined with Sneak Attack and paladin smites. Other features, like the Pact of the Tome, will diminish in value, as we'll already have access to most or all ritual spells across all of our other classes.

In terms of spellcasting, we're not much stronger than a standard full caster. The issue is that there's very little that stacks together. What we do have is a massive amount of spells known or prepared, from every spell list, but at the end of the day we can still only cast one spell per turn. We also get pact magic slots and Mystic Arcanum (e.g. we can cast two 9th level spells), as well as metamagic. The spells we cast, however, won't be that much stronger. Essentially, we're just a sorcerer with more spells known.

On the martial side, we're a combat beast. There's quite a bit of stacking that we can leverage here. We can make four attacks with one action, then use Flurry of Blows, adding the Rage bonus (if raging), smite damage, Lifedrinker, and Sneak Attack, to name a few. This puts our character's abilities into perspective a bit. We might have access to full casting and a lot of spells, but we're really a gish, and one that I think compares better to an EK on steroids than, say, a Bladesinger.

Something to be aware of is that there will be some redundancy/wasted features. Remarkable Athlete is made almost entirely obsolete by Jack of All Trades. It's almost unavoidable that we'll end up getting something from one subclass that we already have from another class or subclass. If you take Twilight cleric, then you've basically wasted the darkvision bonus from Shadow sorcerer. So it's worth asking if the rest of the features are worth the wasted feature. Sometimes they will be, sometimes they won't.

We'll need to decided whether to wear armor or not. Using armor and a shield will allow us to reach a higher AC, especially once we start getting magical armor, however it will deny us from using a few of our monk features. Which is honestly fine, since we have levels in literally every other class. We still get a few really nice things from monk, such as Diamond Soul. Or, we could eschew armor to take full advantage of the monk. The primary benefits seem to be the Martial Arts feature and Unarmored Speed. Personally, I think I might go armorless, but whichever choice we make will influence which other subclasses we take (e.g. Forge cleric, Armorer artificer, etc.).

Finally, utility options will be more useful than raw power. We'll have enough power as it is, so it will probably be more helpful to try to get features that allow us to do new things. For this reason, I think I'd actually pick Pact of the Chain over Pact of the Blade, even though this means giving up that Lifedrinker damage on our four attacks. There simply isn't any other way we can summon an imp familiar, while there are plenty of other ways to boost our weapon damage. A familiar also helps us against our ancient foe, the action economy, so it might be worth it to have the best familiar we can.

I've considered this question a bit, but I'm not familiar enough with every class and subclass to know which ones would be the best in this context. That said, I do have a couple that seem to stand out:

Champion Fighter
As mentioned, most of their abilities are passive, so we get to benefit without straining the action economy. Late game, that regeneration will be quite helpful, while the improved crit range synergizes nicely with the features of several other classes, such as smites and Sneak Attack. The fact that we also get four attacks means we have the greatest odds of scoring a critical hit.

Swords Bard
Similar to above, we can use Blade Flourish without spending any actions (it is part of our Attack action), and we eventually get infinite blade flourishes (albeit with a weaker die).

Moon Druid
We have good enough spellcasting as it is, so Wild Shape provides additional utility. This really shines at 20th level when we get infinite Wild Shapes, making it strong both in and out of combat. Even though we don't need it in combat, we can still get some use out of it, especially with the elemental forms.

That's all I can think of for now. I've had a long day and I'm starting to nod off, so I'll call this post done.

Edit: Based on some of the feedback here, I can add a few more subclasses to the list.

Bladesinger Wizard
The main feature here is being able to substitute a cantrip in the place of one of your attacks. This could just be a Booming Blade, or an Eldritch Blast, or a Blade Ward. Since our martial abilities are quite strong, this makes them stronger by enhancing our Attack action. Everything else this subclass gives you enhances your Bladesong ability, which works well in conjunction with an unarmored build.

Drunken Master Monk
In the vein of boosting our martial ability even further, Drunken Master eventually allows us to make five unarmed attacks when we use Flurry of Blows, rather than two. This allows us to make a rather insane 9 attacks per round using our action and bonus action.

Oathbreaker Paladin
Our aura gives us a nice boost to damage, and we later get resistance to non-magical BPS damage. This would also combo nicely with a Necromancer wizard, if you'd prefer to go that route, but even if you don't, you might occasionally make use of undead.

Twilight Cleric
Extra long range darkvision (sadly no longer infinite), advantage on initiative, and a pretty strong Channel Divinity option. Also, limited flight, if you don't have a better source of flight by then.

Gloomstalker Ranger
Mostly passive benefits, and some nice ones, too. I don't think the darkvision extension works with Twilight cleric, since it specifies that it has to come from your race to benefit, but being invisible in darkness combos nicely with your 300 range darkvision. Iron Mind becomes obsolete once you get Diamond Soul on the monk, but it will make getting there easier.

Alchemist Artificer
If you're going to wear armor, go Armorer instead. Otherwise, the Alchemist is the only one that isn't bonus action hungry. We also get some nice passive benefits (like acid and poison resistance), the experimental elixirs, and free Greater Restoration (always a nice spell to have prepared).

Genie Warlock
Did you notice that the dao patron gives us resistance to bludgeoning damage? All bludgeoning damage? Magical, non-magical, weapon, non-weapon. That includes fall damage, too. We get some other nice features, and we can take Wish for our 9th level Mystic Arcanum (if we didn't want to take Foresight). Pact of the Blade would boost our melee capability even more, though I think the utility granted by Pact of the Chain is more useful. YMMV.

Storm or Shadow Sorcerer
Storm gives us flight and immunity to thunder and lightening. Shadow gives us the ability to go through walls and teleport between shadows. This one might just come down to whether or not you have another source of free flight (e.g. racial), although Storm flight is both fast and magical (no wings to worry about), so it's still probably better than whatever you might already have.

[Seclora]

Genie Warlock seems like a good choice here. Most of its abilities are utility, and using your Vessel and Limited Wish help you stretch your spellcasting even further. It's only other abilities are a damage boost on your spells and an extra damage resistance.

Armorer seems like the best Artificer option, although you could argue for the Alchemist's boost to damage and healing. I think the Armorer's Extra Infusions are actually the stronger passive option.

Totem Barbarian is an easy choice, as it gives you a wide range of strong passive options.

Conquest Paladin is a personal favorite, but I think that the capstone's "You can make one additional attack as part of the attack action" is a good selling point. The ability to lockdown an area also compliments the Bear Totem and Moon Druid tankiness as well.

Abjuration Wizard seems like the best way to round out your defenses, and ensures that you can counterspell whatever still threatens you. War Wizard and Diviner are also good choices to stretch your casting power.

Drunken Master is almost entirely passive improvements, plus a very helpful way to negate Disadvantage. You won't always Flurry of Blows, but when you do, your maximum attacks in the round is -10-.

Soulknife rogue ensures that you never miss, lets you fight mostly unarmed, but have a weapon available to critical hit smite and sneak attack in Psychic damage, and also gives you a utility teleport even without spell slots.

Sorcerer is a bit of a toss up for me. On the one hand, Shadow gives you great Darkvision and an at will(ish) teleport. On the other hand, Storm gives you straight up immunity to Thunder and Lightning, and an always on fly speed. Both seem really good.

And the Gloomstalker Ranger gives us even more attacks, more Darkvision, and some still more improved defenses.

[Hael]

You have to decide what’s the best way to use your action, ba and reaction. To avoid redundancy.

Also have to define what material we can use. Is UA ok?

For action, it seems either casting or a long attack chain is ideal. Bladesinger allows a cantrip and three attacks for instance

BA is probably quickened eldritch blast for pure damage, on the other hand tunnel fighter UA allows many more reactions. Lots of utility competitors like bladesong, bardic die, hex curse, pet actions, spells, aura setups, teleports, etc

For reactions you have the usual spells like shield, absorb elements, but then there’s evasion, uncanny dodge, hex armor, various attacks or ripostes, various movement and take damage instead. Etc etc

Pretty hard to optimize this without specifying a goal. (Like maximize damage or maximize utility)

Also for ac, being unarmored works best as u can get 13 +dex+con+wis+int.

[Naanomi]

Hrm... my quick take would be...

Armorer, Zealot, Swords, Forge, Spores, Cavalier, Astral Self, Ancients, Hunter, Swashbuckler, Shadow, Undying, Bladesinger (or maybe... Warmage?)

Also for ac, being unarmored works best as u can get 13 +dex+con+wis+int.

Most of that explicitly doesn't stack

[Rfkannen]

I agree with Seclora on most of them!

I think it depends a lot on what you want to do, are you a caster, a melee character, ect.

First a melee version:

Spoiler: melee

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• Armorer is great for increasing your tankyness! And your bonus action is going to have heavy use, so not having a pet works well!
• Barbarian I would say you have a choice! Since you have 9th level spells, raging isn't always the best option. If you want to rage a lot, bear totem barbarian is definitely your bet. If you want to cast more spells, I would either go battlerager for spiked armor, or zealot for free coming back to life!
• Swords bard is fantastic for just giving you some extra free riders on your melee attacks!
• Cleric is trickier, if we are focusing on melee. Life domain is good for letting you heal yourself whenever you cast healing word. Peace domain would actually be very interesting, it synergizes well with high movement which you will have from barbarian and monk. War is great if you go great weapon master.
• Circle of stars druid with a focus on the dragon makes you much better at concentrating on your spells!
• OOO fighters a tough one! Cavalier gives you some fantastic tanking power that would be a lot of fun. On the other hand, champion's features would synergize AMAZINGLY with paladin's features.
• Drunken monk seems like a general good option for this
• Conquest paladin is great for synergizing with full casting, you can use fear a lot. On the other hand, if you want to focus tank, I would go for ancients paladin, the aura is just amazing for tanking!
• Gloomstalker increases your stealth abilities amazingly, and you will appreciate the extra attack.
• Soulknife seems good for a tank!
• I would have to go storm sorcerer for the flying.
• Genie or hexblade warlock both can work depending on what you want to do.
• Bladesiner wizard is the most important part of this whole build. Bladsinger letting you cast a cantrip instead of an attack works super well with having as many attacks as a level 20 fighter!

As for a spellcaster variant:

Spoiler: spellcaster

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• Artillerist gets you a huge boost to a ton of spell damage, must get.
• Zealot barbarian, you are only here for free bring back to life spells.
• Colledge of eloquence will make you a social god.
• TEMPEST DOMAIN. You have literally every lightning and thunder spell, it just works way too well!
• Shepard druid boosts all your summons, so that is very nice!
• Eldritch knight gives you improved war magic, which is a good general use for your bonus action. Especially if you have a long bow and your artillerist pet is out of range.
• Shadow monk lets you get out of the way of attacks.
• Conquest will be amazing for locking down with fear spells.
• Swarm druid's features work with spell attacks, and grant you some nice extra mobility.
• Scout keeps you out of melee range.
• Dragon sorcerer adds a nice bit of damage to your fireballs.
• Genie warlock is yet again a third thing that adds a bunch of damage to your spells.
• Scribe wizard with all of your spells known makes you extremely versatile.

Overall I think those are two very different characters!

[Naanomi]

I wonder if... stacking all the different ways to add your stats to Fire/Spell damage would pay off?

[Hael]

Yea that’s true the unarmored defense doesn’t stack. But bladesinging does I think. So you can get 10 +dex+con +int and con will go to 7, so that’s an ac at 20 of 27.. I’m not sure what else stacks.. shield spells does, but I don’t think mage armor does. Otoh suave defense from swashbuckler(shapechange) looks like it might... so that’s +cha, going up to 32

[Gyor]

Ranger Fey Wander, Summon Fey no duration, Charming or Frightened condition on another target when a charm effect fails (including the mirthful fey), and major skill monkey, psychic damage to weapon attacks. (If you can get the friends cantrip via race or feat it gets even better).

Cleric Twilight

Fighter Rune Knight

Bard College of Creation

Druid Circle of Stars or Shepherd

Barbarian Wild Soul

Warlock Genie Patron

Wizard Necromancer

Rogue Phantom

Paladin Oath of Conquest

Artificer Battlesmith

Monk Way of Shadow

Sorcerer this is the toughest in some ways because each kind of Sorcerer is almost it's own class in how they can play very differently from each other. Shadow Sorcerer is the scariest by level 20, Hound of Ill Omen and save or suck spells and a wicked mobility boosting and defensive power, ouch. Divine Soul by 20 can cast Summon Celestial or Conjure Celestial + Wish (Planar Binding) you get a pet celestial for a year and a day or Twinned True Resurrection, and at will flight Aberrant Soul, and Clockwork Sorcerer get each an extra 10 spells known!

[Hael]

A couple more thoughts. I don't think there is a world in which I would ever rage with this character. Consider that they have many sources of advantage already, for instance foresight.

Does it make sense to waste a highly limited BA to rage? Does it make sense to give enemies advantage to hit you (it actually goes from disadvantage to hit to just normal b/c of the aforementioned foresight, but still a loss). Does it make sense to lose the ability to cast cantrips (so no attack, attack, attack, eldritch blast, eldritch blast rounds)? Most of the class rage powers are redundant and found elsewhere outside a +4 to damage, although of course there are some subclass rage powers that are nice.

If so, then it's better to take a subclass which has features outside of rage mechanics.

[Hael]

Artificer: Alchemist (The others use too much BA and I prefer the passive abilities of the alchemist to the Artillerist).
Barbarian: Storm (just for the lvl 6 ability that gives you a resistance)
Fighter: Champion
Rogue: Close call here. Swashbuckler or Thief. Probably Swashbuckler for the initiative (although nothing survives a lvl 17 thief's turn1)
Druid: Star
Fighter: Champion
Paladin: Oathbreaker
Warlock: Fiend or Genie (pact of the blade for smite+lifedrinker). I prefer Fiend here for combat, but Genie gives you a lot of utility. Both do the same thing for this build.
Wizard : Bladesinger (for the unarmored ac and cantrip)
Ranger: Horizon Walker or Gloomstalker (either is OP here)
Monk: Drunken Master or Long death. The latter makes you unkillable but its boring, the former has more utility.
Sorcerer: Divine Soul
Bard: Sword
Cleric: Twilight

The main idea here is that coupled with very high AC (in the mid 30s at lvl 20), this char has resistance or outright immunity to almost every primary damage type in the game, has a great deal of temp hp sources, has a number of reactions to reroll any potential crits, has very high initiative and has an attack turn that does : attack, attack, attack, attack, cantrip (eldritch blast), BA (eldritch blast). All with permanent triple advantage, and multiple extra damage die and modifiers per attack as well as double smite. Couple this with find greater steed and the swashbuckler feature, he can move around, attack things and never provoke oas.

[Naanomi]

Champion has more utility than we’d think given the 3000+ HP we’d be rocking...

[prolific_frog]

I feel Cavalier is being somewhat overlooked here just for the action economy boost you get from its capstone. Otoh, if you allow Tunnel Fighter, then there's essentially no reason to pick it.

[Gtdead]

Defensively, it's possible for a such a character to reach impossible AC and ST in this game with Magic Items, Through
Armor +11/Shield +5, Defense style +1, Potion of Speed +2, Elixir (Alchemist subclass) +1, Shield spell +5, Staff of Power +2, Ring +1 and Cloak +1 of Protection = 39 AC
Mod +5, Aura +5, Diamond Soul +6, Flash of Genius +5, Soul of Artifice +6, Staff of Power +2 = +29 ST

We need subclasses that will add immunities/resistances and passive healing. Monk takes care of almost all resistances and with evasion the unavoidable damage is going to be really low. Shield spell takes care of magic missiles.

Life Cleric with Regenerate and Champion with Survivor offer a possible +20 heal per turn which will mostly take care of unavoidable damage in combination with Monk.
Zealot Barbarian makes the character pretty much impossible to die, although this character will probably never reach 0 health, considering that you need around 2000 dpr spread through attacks of 11 damage, just to beat Regeneration against impossible AC with defensive advantage.
Shadow Sorcerer gives amazing teleportation. Devotion Paladin gives immunity to charm (although monk can take care of it too)

Rogue gives elusive which makes it impossible to be attacked with advantage, so foresight will give blanket defensive advantage.

From there on, we can focus on damage and stealth. Reliable talent + Pass without trace + Expertise allows us to get the surprise round more often than not, so we can go Assassin.
Evoker with Maximized Steelwind Strike along with Action surge and a simulacrum (Djinn Warlock can give us an extra wish per day), can deal 480 damage in the surprise round on 5 targets and since it's a lvl 5 spell, you can feed warlock spellslots through sorcerer to cast it all the time. We have a few item slots for DC boosting items if need be thanks to artificer.

In case of magical immunity you are still a fighter with offensive advantage and full sneak attack and always upcast a shadowblade on a surprise round. There's also the simulacrum to help in this endeavor so it's possible to oneshot most things by stacking SB + Smite + Sneak Attack with Action surge and the +7 STR from Barbarian, all crits, double that with simulacrum for a total of.. dunno 1800 dpr? It doesn't even need a setup, just get the surprise round which by that point is fairly easy to get, bonus action cast shadowblade and attack with action surge, smiting on every attack.

Just in case we can add things like Hunter for Multiattack defense and Kensei Monk for Agile Parry which can raise the AC to a possible 45 and I'm fairly sure that there are other items that can be leveraged for extra defenses.

So by now it already gets ridiculous. You can add Lore Bard for better skills across the board, a moon druid so you can access shapeshift abilities without having to expend spell slots.
Devotion Paladin is nice for immunity to charm although Monk can take care of it too.

So the subclasses used for this were:
Life
Champion
Assassin
Evoker
Alchemist
Shadow
Hunter
Kensei
Moon
Zealot
Lore
Genie

But really, the subclasses don't affect the defensive stats too much and if you are unkillable, then all you need is dpr >0 to win everything.

[Rara1212]

A couple more thoughts. I don't think there is a world in which I would ever rage with this character. Consider that they have many sources of advantage already, for instance foresight.

Does it make sense to waste a highly limited BA to rage? Does it make sense to give enemies advantage to hit you (it actually goes from disadvantage to hit to just normal b/c of the aforementioned foresight, but still a loss). Does it make sense to lose the ability to cast cantrips (so no attack, attack, attack, eldritch blast, eldritch blast rounds)? Most of the class rage powers are redundant and found elsewhere outside a +4 to damage, although of course there are some subclass rage powers that are nice.

If so, then it's better to take a subclass which has features outside of rage mechanics.

Rage doesn't give you advantage on attacks, and enemies advantage to hit you. That's reckless attack, which you can do without Rage.


Edit:
Also, with unlimited Rage, you could just end your rage(no action) cast a 1 action spell, then rage again. Combined with Champion Regen you become very tough to take down.
Hmm, wonder if one should go Moondruid for free subtle spell, unlimited combat Wildshapes and even more tankyness.

[Droppeddead]

I'd go for something unarmoured since you get so many nice benefits from Monk, Barbarian and Druid.

So, here's a quick list with some short motivations as to why I choose them. My motivation is based on not just combat but being able to do everything (which, admittedly, this character would be able to do anyway).

Artificer: Battle Smith. Might be a bit surprising but having an ally helps a lot of other classes with their abilities.

Barbarian: Totem Barbarian for resistances and other neat features. I was thinking Zealot but you just don't need it.

Bard: College of Whispers. Because Bards are awesome and we want those psychic daggers.

Cleric: Twilight or Knowledge. Doesn't really matter. All choices are good in this build. I'll pick Twilight because it is new.

Druid: Moon druid. Wildshapes a are crazy!

Fighter: Difficult choice between champion and samurai but in the end we'll go with champion for healing and better crits.

Monk: Again, difficult choice because Kensei allows you to be slightly better a walking nuke with weapons but other classes offer so much more fun. In the end I'll think I'll go with Shadow monk though, just for coolness.

Paladin: Just like with cleric, it doesn't really matter. Vengeance is always fun but this time let's go for Ancients.

Ranger: Gloom Stalker. Extra initiative, extra first round attack and free invisibility in the dark. Yes please.

Rogue: Swashbuckler. Even more extra initiative!

Sorcerer: Wild Mage or Shadow Magic.

Warlock: Oh boy, again, doesn't really matter. Hexblades are never bad but the new Genie Patron also seems intriguing. Lets go for Genie even though I'm really gonna miss Armor of Hexes.

Wizard: Divination. For when we *really* need that critical hit!

Some features of this build. A base AC of 20 and +13 on all initiative rolls. Depending on how you interpret Reliable Talent that gives us a minimum Initiative of 23 (28 with Alert, which we can take since we'll have enough ASIs to max out every stat and then take whatever feats we want). We are resistant to every typ of damage except psychic when we rage, we can run on water and up walls and we can teleport short distances at will.

Our saving throws will be (at least, depending on what infused items we pick) +22 and we make sure to have warcaster as to never fail concentration.

When we hit something on our first turn with a rapier (because we need a weapon to gain sneak attack so we can't use our monk die) and crit (which we do really easy because of divination and Champion as well as advantage from our flanking Steel Defender) we will make at least (I say this because I probably forget something)
1D8(rapier)+3D8(Brutal Critical)+2D8(Divine Strike Cleric)+8D6(Psychic Blades)+1D8(Improved Divine Smite Paladin)+1D8(Dread Ambush)+10D6(Sneak attack)+5(Strength bonus)+6(Genie Wrath bonus)+4(Rage bonus).
And this is with any bonuses from infused weapons, paladin smites, smite spells, the Holy Weapon spell and similar. That's a total of 8D8+18D6 (that we then double)+15. That's a lot of dice!

[Naanomi]

Moondruid HP onions seem... less necessary when your base form has 3000+HP to begin with

[Greywander]

Thanks for all of the replies, there's too many for me to respond individually (or else this post would become an entire thesis rather than just an essay). I'll try to respond to the things that jumped out at me.

A quick note on HP, since I've seen a couple people talking about having HP in the thousands, or needing a DPR in the thousands to bring us down. Although I won't be using gestalt rules if I do end up playing that solo game I was talking about, any "extra" class levels will be handled as if you were a gestalt character. All this really means is that we end up with the same HP as a 20th level barbarian, more or less. We can max out CON and take the Tough feat, so we'll have a lot of HP, but not thousands.

Soulknife does look interesting, and I kind of want to play one now, but I'm not sure it contributes that much to our character. Thematically, it's very cool, however, the primary feature, the psychic blades, is made largely redundant by monk levels (interestingly, they qualify as monk weapons). We can't smite with unarmed strikes, but at least we'll never be defenseless. Natural weapons also fill the same niche, if we have them, and I believe they paradoxically count as both a weapon and an unarmed strike, allowing us to use a natural weapon for Flurry of Blows and add smite damage to those attacks. The other cool feature of the Soulknife is the teleportation, but we already have the likes of Misty Step, Dimension Door, etc. I'm just not seeing why we would go for the Soulknife when other rogue subclasses can get us other more useful abilities. We can also cast Shadow Blade, though admittedly that requires concentration.

Bladesinger is interesting. Three attacks and a cantrip, instead of four attacks. This is potentially a very strong upgrade for us. We could cast Booming Blade (if we wanted to make a weapon attack anyway), Thunderclap (if surrounded), or Eldritch Blast (honestly, probably the most powerful choice), or even Blade Ward (as a defensive option), and maybe even Truestr-pffff hahahaha! There are two things I'm not so keen on about the Bladesinger, though: first, all other subclass features only affect Bladesong. Which is strong (and moreso for us, thanks to stacking with other bonuses), but requires a BA to activate and has a limited number of uses. The second thing is that Bladesinger only gives you combat buffs, while other wizard subclasses sometimes give good utility buffs (e.g. Minor Conjuration, Illusory Reality).

For barbarians, yeah, I don't really see ever using Rage. But it's there, if you ever need it. If you get into a fight and it doesn't look like you'll need to cast any spells, then go ahead. Or, if you're completely exhausted of all other resources. Sadly, it seems like most subclass features only work when raging, the most you seem to be able to get is one non-Rage feature, e.g. the eagle totem's mile-long vision.

As for the Genie warlock, did anyone else notice that a dao patron gives us resistance to bludgeoning damage? Not just bludgeoning damage from non-magical attacks, but all bludgeoning damage. This includes magical bludgeoning damage, as well as non-weapon damage, such as fall damage.

Drunken Master is pretty crazy with those five Flurry attacks. Use a natural weapon and you can add Improved Smite damage to each one! Not sure why people are going gaga over the Gloomstalker's single extra attack when the Thief gets an entire extra turn. Of course, you could do both, and Gloomstalker has plenty of other nice benefits. Also, the way I'm reading Dread Ambusher, it sounds like if we Action Surge, we get the extra attack on both Attack actions, since they both happen during our first turn.

I wonder if... stacking all the different ways to add your stats to Fire/Spell damage would pay off?

I was thinking about this, and I'm not sure. Evoker only works for wizard evocation spells, the cleric's Potent Spellcasting only works for cleric spells, and the Artillerist's Arcane Firearm only works for artificer spells, so none of those can be stacked. It seems you might be able to get competitive with EB, but I don't think you could surpass it.

[Naanomi]

Alchemist, Dragon Sorcerer, Celestial Warlock, + Evoker (and minor bonus from the new cleric alternative class feature)

You can also stack little bonuses to Persuasion in many places to get pretty silly

[SharkForce]

gonna buck the trend here on rogues and say not swashbuckler.

arcane trickster for rogue. while hidden, enemies have disadvantage to save vs your spells. who cares what the rest of the subclass does, it doesn't matter

with pact magic/mystic arcanum *and* full caster spell slots, you are going to be spending a ton of actions casting spells rather than pure attacking, and not the crappy kind of spells either. you are going to hit level 11 with 2 6th level spell slots and a minimum of 5 level 5 spell slots per day (assuming you don't take any short rests at all to recover a bunch, and assuming you don't convert any lower level spell slots upwards through sorcerer). they will probably have metamagic on them too. powering them up by this much is an incredible boost.

alternately, as was mentioned, with this monstrosity you can expect to surprise enemies pretty often. assassin will let you kill the BBEG before anyone even knows you exist, because you will have an absolutely obscene amount of burst in the first round.

[Greywander]

you are going to be spending a ton of actions casting spells rather than pure attacking,

I'm going to challenge this assumption. Your spellcasting will only be slightly stronger than normal, perhaps enhanced by a couple features, and probably a metamagic. But your weapon attacks will be greatly enhanced. Let's take a look.

Fighter gives us four attacks. If we're using a one-handed monk weapon, our weapon die is 1d10. Barbarian 20 gives us 24 STR, so +7 to both attack and damage rolls. Dueling gives us +2. Rage bonus is +4. Improved Divine Smite adds 1d8. Lifedrinker adds +5. Aura of Hate adds +5. Sneak Attack adds 10d6, but only on one attack. Bladesinger lets us replace one attack with a cantrip, so for simplicity we'll choose Booming Blade. There's probably other bonuses I'm not thinking of, but lets roll with this for now.

So, without expending any resources, by taking the attack action we are dealing 4d10 + 7d8 + 10d6 + 92 = 180.5 average damage per Attack action. That's not figuring in using Flurry of Blows to get five more unarmed attacks. If we did want to expend a spell slot, we could smite for an additional 6d8 damage on top of all that, for a total of 207.5 average damage (and we could smite up to four times if we wanted to).

Damage isn't everything, but to quote my man Phil Swift, that's a lotta damage. And the best part is that you can use your bonus action to quicken a spell anyway, so you can have your cake and eat it, too. Again, though, you'll have to weigh this against using Flurry, or, if trying to conserve resources, just making a bonus action attack.

In reality, we probably wouldn't be stacking all of those bonuses. If we rage, we can't cast spells, so we probably won't do that. We also may or may not have taken Pact of the Blade, Oathbreaker, or Bladesinger, which would remove those respective bonuses. But, we could also have a magic +3 weapon, or a Flametongue, or other weapon that does extra damage. We could cast Shadow Blade if we don't have a magic weapon. Minimum, we're still looking at 4d10 + 4d8 + 10d6 + 28 = 103 average damage. Oh yeah, and this is before crits are figured in, which, if we're a Champion, will be more likely.

My point is that our weapon attacks are plenty strong enough that we shouldn't even need spells for most fights, and if we do, then we might benefit most by buffing our weapon attacks further instead of throwing out a damage spell. Control spells are still very useful, and AoE is helpful for clearing hordes, but I think even a Fireball against a group of enemies will struggle to compete in raw damage, it will just spread it out better over a group.

Still, the basic MO I see is casting a quickened spell to give you an edge, then taking the Attack action to unload a lot of damage (more if you spend spell slots to smite). Rarely, you might twin a spell and use your BA for something else.

You make a good point for AT, but similar effects can be accomplished with a heightened spell or using the Hound of Ill Omen if a shadow sorc. It's definitely not a bad idea to find some way to force disadvantage on a spell save, but we have a couple of different ways to do it. Each method has their own tradeoffs (AT requires hidden, heightened costs sorcery points and can't combine with other metamagic, Hound also costs sorc points and basically requires engaging in combat). Where the AT shines is when using subtle spell to completely mask the spell. This allows you to cast the spell without engaging your target in any way; you could do it when you pass them walking down the street and they'd never know anything had happened.

[Hael]

From an attack chain standpoint. You have fighter that gives you 4 attacks. Echo knight or Samurai give you an additional attack. Gloomstalker or Horizon Walker give you another. Bladesinger allows one of those to be swapped with a cantrip, which leads to eldritch blast giving you another 4. So 9 attacks. Action surge allows you to go to 18.
For the BA, the best as discussed was drunken master, which gives you 5. So thats 23 attacks in total per turn. If you consider using a thief for instance, you could bring that to 46 attacks on turn 1.

For maximum oomph you should give this character spirit shroud for 4d8 per attack, as well as maybe your familiar or simulacrum concentrating on haste (4 more attacks which leads to 50 attacks in round 1) or maybe holy weapon for an additional 2d8 per attack.

In practice nothing in the game lives through that. You could even use one of those action surges to cast an aoe to clear everything out first.

[Greywander]

In practice nothing in the game lives through that.

It's also good to remember that this is once you've maxed out everything (or close to everything). If you're starting at level 1, you have a long, grueling path to get to that point. So by the time you get there, you've more or less earned it.

[heavyfuel]

Are you raising each class one at a time, or are you raising them all at once? Because the answer varies drastically depending on the system.

I don't think a Wizard 20 / Druid 20 / Fighter 3 cares at all about extra crit range, but a character with all classes at 3rd level certainly does.

[Greywander]

What I had in mind was raising them together. You'd pay for each class level individually, but you could take levels in a second or third class before raising your first one all the way to 20. Classes that seem less critical could be put off and leveled later, so it might make sense to pick a few core classes to focus on and get those to 20 sooner, but it would still probably be worth it to dip into each class as early as you can (there would be restrictions on starting a new class, so you'd need to meet them first). It's worth spending some extra XP to get at least 1 or 2 levels into each class early on. I haven't figured out exactly how I would/will be doing in, though the most likely is that your highest level in a single class is your character level, so getting a level in each class still has you at 1st level, not 13th level.

This is starting to get into implementation, which I suppose is relevant since it might affect which subclasses are best while leveling, but I could see the topic getting sidetracked.

[Kane0]

D&D Skyrim you say? We'll then let's make a stealth archer of course! Well, primarily a stealth archer. You'll probably max out a bunch of the crafting skills and probably some magic too.

Artificer - Armorer (Infiltrator)
Barbarian - Totem (Eagle)
Bard - Swords
Cleric - Forge
Druid - Land
Fighter - Arcane Archer or Champion (because thanks to Tasha's we can pick up quite a few maneuvers via all our Fighting styles and feats)
Monk - Kensei or Long Death
Paladin - Conquest or Redemption
Ranger - Gloom Stalker
Rogue - Assassin
Sorcerer - Divine Soul
Warlock - Fiend, GOO or Genie (Talisman)
Wizard - Abjuration or Divination

You will have a total of 68 ASIs to spend, so we can easily max all stats and grab whatever feats we want so it largely comes down to race (and their associated racial feats). Elven Accuracy and Orcish Fury are both good contenders and are races in Skyrim too. Similarly with backgrounds you will have skill proficiencies coming out your ears, it's more a case of where you put your Expertises. Tools and languages can be picked up during downtime while you're in town making iron daggers or whatever.

Oh man, spells. You have casting from 9 classes so even if slots don't double up you have more than you need. You won't need Tomelock for rituals between all that and looking for feats to spend your ASIs on, action economy will be your enemy in a fight so you will probably want to look at extending long duration spells or burning slots on things like contingencies, smites and summons. Any way you can store away slots (like in items) or offload concentration will be valuable, especially if you have a handy-dandy sidekick sworn to carry your burdens.

[Nidgit]

Artificer: Alchemist. Alchemist offers you the elixirs as prepared boost, plus some always-active resistances. Armorer would be good if it didn't break Monk.

Barbarian: Totem. A no-brainer. Only Zealot is remotely similar in usefulness.

Bard: Whispers. Inspirational Smites are nice and the other abilities are pretty unique out-of-combat stuff. Swords is a good option too.

Cleric: Tempest or War. The main thing here is a CD that can be activated instantaneously. I'd lean Tempest for some diversity.

Druid: Moon. You're rarely casting spells in combat anyway.

Fighter: Champion. So many attacks! Let's make them hurt more.

Monk: Drunken Master. Lots of good for action economy and that 17th level Flurry is juicy if it can be set up right.

Paladin: Conquest. Not a lot of great options here since most require some kind of activation. Conquest offers Guided Strike and free damage at 15th level. Redemption's actually not bad, either, with some good passives.

Ranger: Horizon Walker. Gloomstalker is better early on but Horizon Walker pulls ahead later by virtue of frequent extra attacks.

Rogue: Phantom. Swashbuckler is redundant with Drunken Master+Reckless Attack, and Thief is only useful at 17th level. Phantom is some extra damage immediately and has some neat abilities to boot.

Sorcerer: Divine Soul or Wild Magic. Not a ton useful here, but better rolls are nice. Divine Soul has some nice high level healing.

Warlock: Fiend. Constantly replenishing temp HP and some nice passives. Blade Pact is obvious.

Wizard: Abjurer. Wards and resistances are good. Bladesinger and Diviner make decent alternatives.

So at level 20, against 5 enemies you're doing 1d10+1d8+5+4+2+5 (26) over 10 attacks each, plus 2d8 Divine Strike and 20d6 Sneak Attack/Wail damage, plus some combination of 8d6 Psychic Blades, 5d8 Divine Smite, and 6d8 Eldritch Smite. Plus the potential for 5 more attacks from Action Surge.

[Droppeddead]

So at level 20, against 5 enemies you're doing 1d10+1d8+5+4+2+5 (26) over 10 attacks each, plus 2d8 Divine Strike and 20d6 Sneak Attack/Wail damage, plus some combination of 8d6 Psychic Blades, 5d8 Divine Smite, and 6d8 Eldritch Smite. Plus the potential for 5 more attacks from Action Surge.

A nice setup, there. Wail only gives half-damage though. Nice touch on the Eldritch Smite though, I completely missed that one.

[CTurbo]

This is an interesting exercise. I'm curious about stats. Are we assuming 20 in each stat? Note: this character will have 8 ASI/feats slots.

I guess the first thing I have to decide on is whether to go with unarmored defense or use armor, and then which armor. I always prefer unarmored defense whenever possible with 20 levels of Barb is the obvious pick here assuming high stats.

The next thing I would personally try to figure out is what race. Again assuming high stats, I'd want to go for one of the stronger races like Yuan Ti, Tiefling, Aasimar, Warforged, but this would be the perfect chance to ne some type of Elf and exploit Eleven Accuracy considering the overwhelming amount of ways this character would be able to attack with advantage.

Anyway to the fun part.

Bard - I feel like Magical Secrets is wasted on this character considering you pretty much have access to every spell. I'm not overly familiar with Eloquence, but Swords or Whispers would be my picks.

Barbarian - This loses a lot of luster with heavy armor of course. Zealot is really strong and would be pretty much unkillable considering all the healing methods you're also going to have. The new Beast Barbarian is interesting here. The claw attacks allows for an additional attack per attack action so add that it with the extra attacks by Gloom Stalker, Drunken Master etc... Beast does not play nicely with Sneak Attack. Actually, I think I'd go with Berserker here. Exhaustion won't mean so much considering you'll have plenty of slots for Greater Restoration. Berserker allows you to attack with your bonus action regardless of how you use your action. It also gives you a relatively consistent way to attack with your reaction. This plays excellently with Sneak Attack.

Cleric - Tempest is my favorite and having access to every single Lightning/Thunder spell makes this a great choice. I do feel like Forge would potentially be a better pick if going with heavy armor. Immunity to fire damage is sooo good. Life is boring but would be fine. If we dig dep into UA, the Zeal Cleric would be pretty great. It's like a mashup of Tempest/War and you can maximize fire damage too. I am not excited about the new ever so popular Twilight Cleric.

Druid - Moon seems to be the obvious choice. I'm not going to take the time to look up all the spells from other classes that you'd be able to cast in wildshape, but again considering you have access to every spell, it's probably a lot. Land Druid at least gets us back some spell slots on a short rest which shouldn't be overlooked.

Fighter - Champion or Battle Master would be fine, but Echo Knight has some interesting things, and both the Samurai and Cavalier have great level 18 abilities. I think I'd choose Brute here. You'd get an extra d10 for every attack you make, and you still get the same Survivor feature the Champion gets plus a flat +20 damage bonus on a crit.

Monk - Long Death is my favorite to be the most unkillable although Drunken Master's Intoxicated Frenzy would be great on a character like this.

Paladin - Ancients, Vengeance, and Conquest stand out the most here. Conquest is probably the best choice due to having the least amount of overlapping features and you'll have many many many ways to frighten enemies. Oath of Unconquered sounds pretty good with it's passive abilities though.

Ranger - Gloom Stalker seems to be the obvious choice here offering many goodies that won't be overlapping other with other classes. If the UA Revised Ranger is an option, I actually think Beastermaster would be really good here. You would get your regular 4+ attacks and your beast would get 2 each round. Your beast would also be very hard to kill thanks to all the buffs you'd be giving it(Paladin auras for example).

Rogue - I think Scout is the clear winner here pretty consistently being able to use Sneak Attack with your bonus action. Thief is probably second best choice. I like Swashbuckler, but it's 17th level ability is really weak compared to the others, and the Assassin's Death Strike is too hard to pull off in melee. The Scout's Skirmisher ability would be hilarious with this character considering how much movement speed you'll have and considering you'll have a flying speed too.

Sorcerer - If Spell Bombardment wasn't one of the worst high level features in the game, I'd really like Wild Magic for this character. Shadow has the best teleporting feature in the game which would be cool. Divine Soul a couple of always useful features, but I think Storm may be my pick here giving you immunity to thunder and lightning damage and possibly the best flying ability that I'm aware of.

Warlock - I know everybody love their precious Hexblade, and it would be an ok choice, but I'd go Celestial all the way. Tome is useless here so it's a toss up between having a super powered familiar or Blade Pact features. Either would be just fine, but I think Chain offers a bit more.

Wizard - Diviner and Abjurer stand out as best choices. As good as Portent is, I would probably want Abjurer since Arcane Ward doesn't require any of the action economy to use, all the features are strong, and you'll have access to ALL abjuration spells. Pretty much any subclass here would be great though.

I'd choose a subclass that gives a fly speed and it would be nice to have a teleporting feature like Shadow Monk/Sorcerer. I'd also choose either Ancients Paladin or Abjurer Wizard, but not both because spell resistance is too good to pass up.

[Nidgit]

A nice setup, there. Wail only gives half-damage though. Nice touch on the Eldritch Smite though, I completely missed that one.

At Level 17 Wails of the Grave hits both the secondary and primary for half Sneak Attack damage, so 19-20d6 total once you gain the ability. Takes a reaction to properly reload, but it's also easily solved by a bag of rats.

[Kane0]

Takes a reaction to properly reload, but it's also easily solved by a bag of rats.

Thats a funny way to say skeever but okay.

Why are people concerned about not wearing armor because of monk? Thats losing out on a bunch of magic gear you could be using.