D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

[nickl_2000]

Responses in bold to avoid breaking the quote.

Feedback for everyone! It only took me a week to get to it!

Noooo. I saw the original Artificer Alchemist and briefly worried that all of my alchemy subsystem work would be wasted until it turned out to be really...sad. Now you're going to come in here and make it good and my work will actually be wasted. (I kid, obviously).

Not to worry, this is definitely not a replacement for a full alchemy system. I would love to see what you have for it though! And feel free to steal ideas from my mixes if you need additional alchemical mixes in the system.

• Alchemical Mixes should probably specify that it has a minimum number of uses (obviously anyone who manages to get zero or negative has gone horribly wrong, but it's traditional). Yup, agreed. Done
• Healing Balm seems to be the only Level 3 Mix that doesn't improve at level 9, is that intentional? It gets a pretty big jump at 15 in its current form. This was an oversight. I have it doing 3d4 at 9 and 5d4 at 15.
• Quick Alchemy: Getting to use your iconic feature more often is good. I think it comes late enough that it isn't going to break anything in twain.
• Alchemy Mastery: A solid feature, but maybe not a true capstone (even if some of those potions are really good). Still, the Artificer doesn't really get subclass capstones so maybe it's in order that way.

Overall, I think this does what the alchemist needed most, which was give it more control over its main feature. It also added variety and leaned into the potion side of things, which works well in my book.

Thanks for the review and taking a look. Made some minor modifications based on your recommendations.

[Twelvetrees]

I don't understand where this misunderstanding comes from. O_o

*Shrug* I'm having to try to figure out the interactions between three class features. Let me see if explaining my reading of it in detail makes this more clear.

1. "Starting at 18th level, the attack roll of your Eldritch Strike feature..." - Now I need to go see what this attack roll is and how it works.
2. "Before you use your action to cast a spell, you can make a melee attack roll with a bonded weapon as part of the same action" - I've now found the attack roll from Eldritch Strike.
3. "...becomes eligible to be chosen as a spell attack roll..." - Got it. The melee attack is now a spell attack.
4. "...for the purpose of converting it into a weapon attack using your Weapon Bond feature." - Now I ought to see what Weapon Bond does to spell attacks.
5. "each time you have to make a spell attack roll, you can instead make a melee weapon attack roll." - Wait. Weapon Bond just turns the spell attack back into a melee weapon attack? Why is that good? It appears I just turned a melee weapon attack into a spell attack and then back into a melee weapon attack. This doesn't interact at all with the spell you are casting using your action as part of Eldritch Strike.

I don't understand how you get to this point:

...it allows you to make a melee attack even if the spell doesn't originally have a spell attack roll, or one more if the spell has fewer spell attack rolls than the number of attacks you can make during an Attack action, but you can't convert it to a cantrip using War Magic since you're not making an Attack action.

[Old Harry MTX]

*Shrug* I'm having to try to figure out the interactions between three class features. Let me see if explaining my reading of it in detail makes this more clear.

1. "Starting at 18th level, the attack roll of your Eldritch Strike feature..." - Now I need to go see what this attack roll is and how it works.
2. "Before you use your action to cast a spell, you can make a melee attack roll with a bonded weapon as part of the same action" - I've now found the attack roll from Eldritch Strike.
3. "...becomes eligible to be chosen as a spell attack roll..." - Got it. The melee attack is now a spell attack.
4. "...for the purpose of converting it into a weapon attack using your Weapon Bond feature." - Now I ought to see what Weapon Bond does to spell attacks.
5. "each time you have to make a spell attack roll, you can instead make a melee weapon attack roll." - Wait. Weapon Bond just turns the spell attack back into a melee weapon attack? Why is that good? It appears I just turned a melee weapon attack into a spell attack and then back into a melee weapon attack. This doesn't interact at all with the spell you are casting using your action as part of Eldritch Strike.

I don't understand how you get to this point:

Haha, don't worry^^

Your reasoning runs smoothly, except that you missed the fundamental point, which is the mechanics on which the whole subclass is based:

1. Improved Eldritch Strike: "Starting at 18th level, the attack roll of your Eldritch Strike feature..."
2. Eldritch Strike: "Before you use your action to cast a spell, you can make a melee attack roll with a bonded weapon as part of the same action"
3. Improved Eldritch Strike: "...becomes eligible to be chosen as a spell attack roll for the purpose of converting it into a weapon attack using your Weapon Bond feature."
4. Weapon Bond: "...when you use your action to cast a spell, you can choose a number of those (of the spell, ed) spell attack rolls before resolving them, up to the number of attacks you can perform during an Attack Action. For each successful hit, add the damage of your weapon to that hit as well. Treat them as normal weapon attacks."

So basically you have a feature (Weapon Bond) that allows you to convert a number of spell attack rolls into full melee weapon attack, a feature (Eldritch Strike) that allows you to add an attack roll before a spell (for reasons...), and another feature (Improved Eldritch Strike) that allows you to consider this attack roll suitable for being converted into a full melee weapon attack via Weapon Bond.

I was just curious as to why you thought this would allow you to cast two cantrips at a time^^

[sengmeng]

Feedback for everyone! It only took me a week to get to it!

Spoiler: Soulknife

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Been a while since we had a variant subclass that fit under multiple classes. It's a design space that I'm surprised official content hasn't experimented with more (I know we had one UA that used it for Arcane Magic but they abandoned it pretty fast).

• Mind Blade: I like the writing here. One quibble is that no existing Light weapon deals more than 1d6 damage. It mostly matters for the rogue and two-weapon fighter, since the monk doesn't really like to dual wield anyway (though until they hit Martial Arts 1d8 it's marginally better than making an unarmed attack). But the rogue suddenly can get the benefits of both a rapiier (damage) and a shortsword (extra attempts to sneak attack) at the same time. Probably balanced by the set-up time required for it.
• Archetypal features: All ways to mesh the Mind Blade with existing class features. Seems fine.
• With Annihilating Blade, do you get both Wis and Str/Dex to damage or does the Wis replace the Str/Dex? Yes, made more explicit with edits
• Psychic Fighting Style: Rogues are reaching the point of drooling; they can dual wield d8 weapons, have 2-weapon fighting, and not sacrifice sneak attack OR an ability score increase for dual wielder? Other than that seems reasonable, even monks have a couple options in there they can grab without feeling wasted.
• Psychic Parry looks fun, but completely negating an attack against you once per round is pretty crazy.
• Improved Mind Blade: 1d10/2d6 for a Light Weapon is too much (especially since to get this they pretty much have to go through fighter and can pick up TWF. I would say dropping Light but keeping Finesse would be reasonable.
• Psychic Bladestorm: I think in one of your edits you lost the part that specifies when you get this feature. Is it 6th subclass feature? Whenever you happen to have Soulknife from all three classes? I think it should cost Action Surge to activate also to tie it into the Fighter; it costs a Monk Resource and scales with a Rogue Feature, but Fighter is just there to provide...Extra Attack 3 if you are really high level? I guess Action Surge is a pretty attractive choice with this feature already, though, so making it cost your surge to go off is not ideal either. I have edited it to include that this is the sixth level of subclass (only achievable with monk 9, rogue 3, fighter 10). I considered keying it off Action Surge, but I didn't think it was necessary to lead them by the nose quite so hard. It only reaches its full potential with Action Surge, but it isn't broken to allow a player to just... not do that.

I have a couple struck out bullets in here; I forgot to account for collapsing the mind blade being a bonus action when I was considering the implications of Light on the mind blade. I'm still a little skeptical but significantly less so now. I'm not sure what to do with it either. It would still be the best light weapon if I reduced it to a 1d6 base damage though. I'll think about that.

I think it covers all the important bits of the 3rd edition Soulknife while embracing the identities of all three classes it's attached to and 5e's general structure. This is pretty good, other than possibly being really min-maxable (but even then only at high levels where min-maxing usually consists of "get the Wish spell, twice if able").

Thanks for the feedback! I made a couple adjustments and I have some comments in the spoiler, bolded.

[MoleMage]

Due to unexpected family celebrations, I'm going to be on the road on Monday when I would normally call the contest a wrap. So I'm giving a freebie two-day extension for everyone to get in their edits. The new contest deadline is the end of the day on Wednesday May 4th, and the new voting thread target day is Thursday May 5th. On my way now to edit the contest post and the first post of this thread.

The usual two-week extension is still available by triple request, but it will extend from the original deadline, not the freebie two days.

[Twelvetrees]

I was just curious as to why you thought this would allow you to cast two cantrips at a time^^

While trying to reference all the features, I must have looked at War Magic by mistake and thought that the melee attack roll from Eldritch strike allowed you to use a cantrip.

I thought if you took your action to cast a spell (which could be a cantrip), then you got to make an attack before the spell, and then got to replace that attack with a cantrip. Ergo, two cantrips at a time.

Not how it works, but it's how I read it the first time.




Reviews for the recently added subclasses!

Spoiler: Banneret

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Heroic Stand and Royal Envoy
Improving Rallying Cry and moving Royal Envoy down to 3rd level are good moves.

One minor quibble: Why'd you get rid of the "see or hear" clause in favor of just hearing for Heroic Stand?

Puissant Cry
Rally seems circumstantial, but being able to use it as a bonus action means it's still a good ability. Affright is frighteningly powerful in comparison. Even with a save DC that's not going to be particularly high, a 60 foot radius covers an enormous area and a bonus action to use means this doesn't even interrupt your normal attack sequence. It also afflicts a condition that's not-quite-a-stun, but is close in effect. My suggestion would be to either reduce it's area, make it take an action to use, or remove the piece that forces them to run.

Call to Action
Oh, that's a powerful bit of utility. Spellcaster allies get a lot out of this, as do other characters with Extra Attack. Rogues don't benefit from it as much anymore.

Oath of Wrath
This is too much for 10th level features. If I wanted to play a 10th level fighter and had to choose between this subclass and a Samurai, I'd choose this subclass in a heartbeat because it does everything a Samurai does, but better. I'm advocating for removing this feature or taking a nerf bat to it.

Bulwark
This is a nice improvement over the base feature. Does "as a reaction" mean that using this ability takes your reaction or is that phrase part of the flavor text?

If it is meant to use your reaction, you could word it as "Starting at 15th level, when any number of creatures within 60 feet that can see or hear you fail their saving throw against a single effect (for example, several creatures caught in the area of a single fireball), you can use your reaction to allow them..."

If it's not, you can use the same wording I just gave you, but remove the "use your reaction" piece.

Final Stand
That's a good way to get allies back on their feet at high levels.

Did the Banneret really not have an 18th level feature before? Wow.

Overall Impression
I'd enjoy playing this version of the Banneret and being able to see where these features improved on the original subclass is a nice plus. I still think Oath of Wrath is too good.

Spoiler: School of Onomancy

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Scribe of True Words
Mostly fluff, but fun!

Evolved Lexicon
If I understand this correctly, this allows you to create modified spells. Cool.

None of them except for Uur seem that powerful, but I'm probably missing some combinations. Uur is broken when combined with polymorph. Cast it on an ally and they suddenly have the shapeshifting potential of a 20th level moon druid. You can use your reaction to choose a new form for them each turn, which will refresh their hit points. This combo works at 7th level.

Name's Condemnation
This is strong, but it has limited uses, so it's probably fine.

True Name Research
More fluff that makes sense!

Mindful Recitations
This actually seemed a little underpowered at first. Then I realized it would allow you to do something like a Shel counterspell and not need components for the spell. A player with good system mastery can exploit this feature, but I don't know that anyone else will get much out of it. Likely fine, given that this is homebrew and anyone wanting to play it probably has a decent sense of how the rules of the game work.

Power of the True Words
More spells known would be really good on any other class. For wizards, it's just decent.

Direct counterplay against Legendary Resistances isn't something I've seen before and I don't know how I feel about it. Given that it encourages rocket tag and ending fights against legendary creatures with one spell, I don't like it as a DM. As a player, I really like it.

It seems fine on balance, I've just got conflicted feelings.

Overall Impression
I would consider it a little underwhelming, but Uur polymorph and Power of the True Words make it extremely good in specific situations.

My gut says I'd have more fun with other wizard subclasses because their features would come into play more often. That being said, the fluff on this is great.

Assassin changes

Slightly modified Exfiltration Expertise to make it more closely resemble a paladin aura.

[Arkanist]

Spoiler: School of Onomancy

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Scribe of True Words
Mostly fluff, but fun!

Evolved Lexicon
If I understand this correctly, this allows you to create modified spells. Cool.

None of them except for Uur seem that powerful, but I'm probably missing some combinations. Uur is broken when combined with polymorph. Cast it on an ally and they suddenly have the shapeshifting potential of a 20th level moon druid. You can use your reaction to choose a new form for them each turn, which will refresh their hit points. This combo works at 7th level.

Name's Condemnation
This is strong, but it has limited uses, so it's probably fine.

True Name Research
More fluff that makes sense!

Mindful Recitations
This actually seemed a little underpowered at first. Then I realized it would allow you to do something like a Shel counterspell and not need components for the spell. A player with good system mastery can exploit this feature, but I don't know that anyone else will get much out of it. Likely fine, given that this is homebrew and anyone wanting to play it probably has a decent sense of how the rules of the game work.

Power of the True Words
More spells known would be really good on any other class. For wizards, it's just decent.

Direct counterplay against Legendary Resistances isn't something I've seen before and I don't know how I feel about it. Given that it encourages rocket tag and ending fights against legendary creatures with one spell, I don't like it as a DM. As a player, I really like it.

It seems fine on balance, I've just got conflicted feelings.

Overall Impression
I would consider it a little underwhelming, but Uur polymorph and Power of the True Words make it extremely good in specific situations.

My gut says I'd have more fun with other wizard subclasses because their features would come into play more often. That being said, the fluff on this is great.

Thank you for the feedback! The reason I gave it direct counterplay against LR is because I also tried to signpost that for a boss monster, getting their True Name is a quest unto itself. So being able to unleash that kind of power on a boss is intended to be the aftermath of going on a big quest to uncover their major secret weakness - and quite intentionally only if the DM intends. I figure it's not anticlimax to go "Nice try, Asmodeus... but I know your TRUE NAME!" if you've put in the work to actually dig up the alternate win condition.

As for the Uur thing, I recognize it's powerful, but I tried to curb it by making usage of the Resonant once-per-cast with the caveat that it also burns half the spell's remaining duration. I hope that holds up.

[Ilerien]

Heroic Stand and Royal Envoy
Improving Rallying Cry and moving Royal Envoy down to 3rd level are good moves.

One minor quibble: Why'd you get rid of the "see or hear" clause in favor of just hearing for Heroic Stand?

To make the same creatures eligible for all buffs the subclass offers. I guess I can go the other way and allow deaf, but not blind creatures to benefit from Call to Action, etc.

Puissant Cry
Rally seems circumstantial, but being able to use it as a bonus action means it's still a good ability. Affright is frighteningly powerful in comparison. Even with a save DC that's not going to be particularly high, a 60 foot radius covers an enormous area and a bonus action to use means this doesn't even interrupt your normal attack sequence. It also afflicts a condition that's not-quite-a-stun, but is close in effect. My suggestion would be to either reduce it's area, make it take an action to use, or remove the piece that forces them to run.

I agree, the fear effect seems unbalanced. Removing the piece that makes them to run is the most elegant solution, I think.

Call to Action
Oh, that's a powerful bit of utility. Spellcaster allies get a lot out of this, as do other characters with Extra Attack. Rogues don't benefit from it as much anymore.

Hmm, it's a valid point. I probably should revert to reaction mechanic, but allow an ally to take any action.

Oath of Wrath
This is too much for 10th level features. If I wanted to play a 10th level fighter and had to choose between this subclass and a Samurai, I'd choose this subclass in a heartbeat because it does everything a Samurai does, but better. I'm advocating for removing this feature or taking a nerf bat to it.

Essentially, it's poached from Vengeance Paladin (and from 3.5e version of PDK :) ). I don't see how a paladin gets less mileage out of it than a fighter. Sure, a fighter has more attacks, but a paladin's attacks deal more damage in general thanks to smites. Would it be better if I change it to "the first attack of the turn gets advantage"? Or just straight add one more attack per attack action against that enemy (would be kinda in line with samurai)?

Bulwark
This is a nice improvement over the base feature. Does "as a reaction" mean that using this ability takes your reaction or is that phrase part of the flavor text?

If it is meant to use your reaction, you could word it as "Starting at 15th level, when any number of creatures within 60 feet that can see or hear you fail their saving throw against a single effect (for example, several creatures caught in the area of a single fireball), you can use your reaction to allow them..."

If it's not, you can use the same wording I just gave you, but remove the "use your reaction" piece.

Oh, your wording is much better, thank you! I meant a banneret to expend their reaction.

Final Stand
That's a good way to get allies back on their feet at high levels.

I just realized there's an inherent bug in this feature. Allies at 0 HP rolling death saving throws are unconscious and can't see or hear the banneret.

Overall Impression
I'd enjoy playing this version of the Banneret and being able to see where these features improved on the original subclass is a nice plus. I still think Oath of Wrath is too good.

Thank you very much for taking a look!

[nickl_2000]

Due to unexpected family celebrations, I'm going to be on the road on Monday when I would normally call the contest a wrap. So I'm giving a freebie two-day extension for everyone to get in their edits. The new contest deadline is the end of the day on Wednesday May 4th, and the new voting thread target day is Thursday May 5th. On my way now to edit the contest post and the first post of this thread.

The usual two-week extension is still available by triple request, but it will extend from the original deadline, not the freebie two days.

Love to hear "unexpected family celebrations" rather than emergency! Have fun!

[tzurk]

I've made some last minute touches to the revised champ after thinking on the feedback from this thread. Not sure I've nailed it, but getting closer.

Added Keen Weapon as a choice to Signature Weapon - this is the old Improved Archery's "maximise one damage die instead of rolling it" feature. Hopefully this adds a layer of complexity to the decision making process of somebody who would otherwise head straight to True or Reliable weapons, while allowing somebody to pick a greataxe and have a blast with this, or to grab a d8 weapon and a shield and still feel like a powerhouse. Limited to once on each of your turns compared to others' once per turn for the sake of Sentinel/PAM builds. I might turn this into requiring a BA to activate… not sure.

Changed Archery from the above to using your reaction to move up to half your speed after making a ranged weapon attack. A more strategic buff that should still be useful for most of the game without being a straight damage boost.

TWF also changed to just allow two bonus action attacks when two-weapon fighting instead of one.

I want to give Defensive Weapon a second attack somewhere along the line, but not sure where it should come, and then it becomes the only signature weapon to scale.

I thought about removing signature fighting styles entirely in favour of granting another signature weapon at 10, but thought it wasn't enough of a power boost. Also thought about giving one weapon type two signature features instead but figured that was too much.

I do like the idea of granting a second choice for a different weapon type at some point but don't know where it would fit. Maybe 7, where BM gets their fluffy feature as well as additional superiority dice & maneuvers, but it still felt like too much.

I kept Dueling as is, even though it disallows a shield where the base style doesn't. This is purely to help people who crave those Aragorn builds feel like they aren't gimping themselves; there are plenty of options for a Duelist who wants a shield in Interception, Protection, Defense or Superior Technique.

Anyway, it is what it is! Appreciate all the feedback given in this thread as it's gone a long way to making the subclass feel better. I'm sorry to those whose work I didn't get to review; this contest really took off and it's been great to see so many entries - too many, it turned out, to get around to looking at in depth.

See you all in the voting thread!

[MoleMage]

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...-(Open-to-All)

Voting thread is up! A little more than two weeks on the clock.

And everyone remember there are two Sun Soul Monks in this contest. Include the creator's name, if you would please.

[MoleMage]

Alright voting tally comes out as follows!

In 3rd place it is sengmeng with the Soulknife multi-subclass! Get the most of your multiclassing while also capturing the essence of PSYCHIC BLADES.

In 2nd place we have nickl_2000's Alchemist Artificer! Because seriously, who wrote the original alchemist?

In 1st place it is TwelveTrees's Assassin Rogue! Now you're a team player! Also, your mechanics are unambiguous and clear.


We did have a tie for 1st place, which was decided by the second tie-breaker (most 1st-place votes). I think we had a good contest all around, everyone!

And on the theme side of things, our winner was I Read This in a Book, Once, becoming our first three-time theme! My Way is Different came in a close second and will automatically be in next month's voting pool.

And our new thread is up! See it here! https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...0#post25468080

[Jervis]

And our new thread is up! See it here! https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...0#post25468080

weird question but this is the first contest i'm planning on submitting something. Is it generally considered better to post a link to a pdf or just make the class using the usual forum formatting?

Also has the hunter from Monster Hunter been used in one of these threads before as inspiration?


EDIT:

Eh, i'll just add this as an idea for what my subclass could be. Just a rough out.

Spoiler: Artificer: Monster Hunter

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Yeah i'm so awesome i don't need to look back at the thing about to eat me for wearing it's parents' hide.

Flavor flavor flavor, fluff fluff fluff. I don't feel like writing it right now.

Tool's of the Trade
When you adopt this specialization at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with leatherworker's tools, heavy armor and martial weapons. If you have proficiency in leatherworker's tools you instead gain proficiency in a set of artisan's tools of your choice.

Monster Hunter Spells
Starting at 3rd level, you always have certain spells prepared after you reach particular levels in this class, as shown in the Monster Hunter Spells table. These spells count as artificer spells for you, but they don't count against the number of artificer spells you prepare.

3rd	Cure Wounds, Hex
5th	Pass Without Trace, Lesser Restoration
9th	Elemental Weapon, Protection from Energy
13th	Death Ward, Locate Creature
17th	Mass Cure Wounds, Swift Quiver

Field Smith
At 3rd level you gain the ability to craft weapons and armor from the remains of fallen monsters. You can use the remains of a non-sentient creature to craft weapons or armor, this process takes an hour and can be done during a short rest. A small or larger creature can be used to create a one handed weapon, a pair of light weapons, light armor, a shield, or 20 pieces of amunition. a Large or larger creature can be used to make a one handed weapon or lance and a shield, a two handed weapon, or a set of light, medium, or heavy armor. A set of Half Plate, Breast Plate, Splint armor can only created from a creature with a CR of 3 or more, and Plate can only be created from a creature with a CR of 5 or more.

This feature can also be used to create mundane items that can be used with your infusions, as well as furniture, vehicles, or other such items as long as the creature used is at least the same size category as the item being created. This feature can be used in more creative ways requiring considerably more time and multiple creatures as material. Some Monster Hunters have used the bodies of thousands of steel dragons to construct a single tower, for some reason.

Hunter Weapons
Again at 3rd level you gain the ability to create special weapons with unusual characteristics when using your Field Smith class feature. These weapons can be by anyone proficient with them as a mundane weapon of that type, but only use can use their additional characteristics. These weapons are called Hunter Weapons and can be made from creature remains as long as those remains could be used to make a mundane version of the weapon. Some hunter weapons come is sets, such as a pair of swords or sword and shield, in which case the creature whos remains you used must have been large enough to create all of it's components. You can only use a hunter weapon's unique abilities while holding the weapon or set of weapons.

Sword & Shield
This hunter weapon is a set including a shield and your choice of a longsword, short sword, rapier, or battle axe. When you take the attack action while holding both the shield and the weapon from the set, you can cast one of your Monster Hunter Spells as a bonus action, you must still use a spell slot as normal.

Long Sword
This hunter weapon serves as a double-bladed scimitar. If a creature misses an attack roll against you while you are holding this weapon, you can use your reaction to make a single weapon attack against that creature.

Great Sword
This hunter weapon serves as a great sword. You can use a bonus action on your turn to gain advantage on your next melee weapon attack you make this turn, you cannot use this bonus action while you are mounted or if you have moved this turn. You cannot move the turn you use this bonus action.

Lance
This hunter weapon is a set including a shield and a lance. While you are wielding both items in this set you can attack with the lance with one hand even while not mounted. Your movement speed is reduced by 10 feet while holding both items in this set. You can use a bonus action to take the disengage or dash action as a bonus action, if you take the disengage action as a bonus action using this feature your movement speed is reduced to 10 feet.

Gun Lance
This hunter weapon is a set including a shield and a lance. While you are wielding both items in this set you can attack with the lance with one hand even while not mounted. Your movement speed is reduced by 10 feet while holding both items in this set. When you take the attack action and attack only with the lance, you can use a bonus action to discharge a blast of magical energy, if you do a creature of your choice within your reach must make a reflex save against your artificer spell save DC, taking 2d6 fire damage on a failure. A creature you successfully hit with you lance this turn has disadvantage on this saving throw.

Dual Blades
This hunter weapon is a pair of scimitars, longswords, or rapiers. While you are wielding both items in this set and take the attack action you can make one additional weapon attack for each attack you make with the attack action, you cannot add your strength or dexterity modifier to these additional attacks. Feats or fighting styles that allow you to add your ability modifier to the bonus action attack you can make while two weapon fighting do not allow you to add your ability modifier to the additional attacks you make with this hunter weapon.

Hammer
This hunter weapon is a maul. When you attack with this weapon as part of the attack action and hit a creature, you can use a bonus action to attempt to shove that creature. (See actions in combat)

Hunting Horn
This hunter weapon is a maul. When you take the attack action while wielding this weapon you can use a bonus action to grant a number of friendly creatures of your choice up to your intelligence modifier that can hear you one of the following benefits, this can include yourself.

• Gain temporary hit points equal to your intelligence modifier + half your artificer level (rounded down), these last for up to 1 minute.
• Gain advantage on saving throws to avoid or end the charmed and frightened conditions until the end of your next turn.
• Move speed increases by 10 feet until the end of your next turn.
• AC increases by 1 until the end of your next turn.

Switchaxe
This hunter weapon is either a great axe or a great sword. As a bonus action you can cause this weapon to change from a great sword to a great axe or from a great axe to a great sword, when you do your weapon attacks with this weapon deal an additional 1d4 damage of the weapons damage type. If you land a critical hit, you deal an additional 3d6 thunder damage.

Bow
This hunter weapon is a longbow. When you take the attack action and attack only with this longbow, you can use a bonus action to fire an additional. This arrow is fired hastily and only deals 1d4 base damage instead of 1d8. If a creature misses you with a weapon attack you can use your reaction to move up to 10 feet and attack the creature that missed you, this movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Bowgun
This hunter weapon is a heavy crossbow, light crossbow, or hand crossbow. You do not have disadvantage on attack rolls with this weapon while prone. You can use a bonus action to change the damage dealt by this weapon's ammunition to fire, acid, cold, electric, or poison for the rest of the turn.

Insect Glaive
(TBH I have no idea what do do here besides giving a massive boost to jump distance. I need to stat a pet for this and i don't feel like doing that right now.)

Charge Blade
(also very annoying to stat, will do later)

Extra Attack
Starting at 5th level, you can attack twice, rather than once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

Expert Hunter
At 9th level you gain the ability to pick out weaknesses of a creature. As a bonus action you can make a Survival check with a DC equal to 10 + half a creature you can see's CR. On a success, you learn that creature's damage resistances, weaknesses, and immunities.

Weakness Exploit
At 14th level you gain the ability to exploit a creature's weaknesses more easily. If you successfully use your Expert Hunter feature to identify a creature's weaknesses, your weapon attacks deal an additional 1d8 damage of the weapon's damage type to that creature for the next minute.

How does this look for a rough outline?

[MoleMage]

weird question but this is the first contest i'm planning on submitting something. Is it generally considered better to post a link to a pdf or just make the class using the usual forum formatting?

Also has the hunter from Monster Hunter been used in one of these threads before as inspiration?

To your first question, people usually just do the forum formatting unless they need a lot of space. The PDF thing is included because I use the same rules for the Base Class Contest, and those are often shared as PDF instead of forum formatted due to size.

To your second question, I don't think we've had Monster Hunter yet. Someone may have done it in I Read This II though. I say do it either way though.

[nickl_2000]

weird question but this is the first contest i'm planning on submitting something. Is it generally considered better to post a link to a pdf or just make the class using the usual forum formatting?

Also has the hunter from Monster Hunter been used in one of these threads before as inspiration?

How does this look for a rough outline?

I don't remember one either, but even if there was you are welcome to put your take on it in here. There have been repeats before and different people's takes are always welcome..


The formatting on that looks fine, but if you are wanting a review of the mechanics post it in the entries thread and will will take a look when we have time

Oh and welcome to the party!

[Jervis]

I don't remember one either, but even if there was you are welcome to put your take on it in here. There have been repeats before and different people's takes are always welcome..


The formatting on that looks fine, but if you are wanting a review of the mechanics post it in the entries thread and will will take a look when we have time

Oh and welcome to the party!

Thanks. I submitted my entry, probably needs a bit of work but I removed some interactions from the original that wasn’t spectacular, like making dual blades the damage kings at 14 and hex dpr

[Oerlaf]

Interestingly, the first idea I came up with the "I Read This in a Book, Once" theme was based on O. Wilde's "Picture of Dorian Grey". So, I decided to base the subclass on Dorian itself. Therefore, my submission is a warlock of the Portrait.

[Damon_Tor]

Interestingly, the first idea I came up with the "I Read This in a Book, Once" theme was based on O. Wilde's "Picture of Dorian Grey". So, I decided to base the subclass on Dorian itself. Therefore, my submission is a warlock of the Portrait.

Oh dang, that's good.

*Reads subclass*

That's really good! Very well done.

[sengmeng]

Indiana Jones is in the house as Rogue Archetype: Archaeologist.

Feedback:

Spoiler: Monster Hunter

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Ok, I want to like this. I don't know Monster Hunter or Artificer well enough to say things with a lot of certainty, but here goes: I don't think it's unbalanced, per se, and I do think it fills a hole that 5e has, but it is messy. I would change every single one of those hunter weapon thingies into a new infusion, and maybe give him extra infusions over the base Artificer, and also try to fit it into existing rules as much as possible. The later features are fine, as far as I can tell. So are the earlier ones; the spell list is especially good and I like the simplicity of the crafting mechanic. Also, I'm guessing it would make a lot more sense if I knew more about Monster Hunter, but 5e doesn't differentiate weapons enough to make those weapon sets make sense, and I can tell you speaking for myself at least, I don't like the awkward and clunky nature of that feature for the sake of being true to lore that I don't know. I don't know what others might think, though. It might be a huge hit with people who know the game. Overall, well-done, but I encourage some significant editing.

Spoiler: Portait Patron

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I like this a lot. The features make sense and fit the source material. One thing, make sure you explicitly state the DC of the saves provoked by the features; I assume it's your spell save DC?

[Oerlaf]

Indiana Jones is in the house as Rogue Archetype: Archaeologist.

Spoiler: Portait Patron

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I like this a lot. The features make sense and fit the source material. One thing, make sure you explicitly state the DC of the saves provoked by the features; I assume it's your spell save DC?

Yes, it was meant to be spell save DC. I explicitly wrote this, but I thought that subclasses usually didn't state that in the official books, did they?

[Jervis]

Indiana Jones is in the house as Rogue Archetype: Archaeologist.

Feedback:

Spoiler: Monster Hunter

Show

Ok, I want to like this. I don't know Monster Hunter or Artificer well enough to say things with a lot of certainty, but here goes: I don't think it's unbalanced, per se, and I do think it fills a hole that 5e has, but it is messy. I would change every single one of those hunter weapon thingies into a new infusion, and maybe give him extra infusions over the base Artificer, and also try to fit it into existing rules as much as possible. The later features are fine, as far as I can tell. So are the earlier ones; the spell list is especially good and I like the simplicity of the crafting mechanic. Also, I'm guessing it would make a lot more sense if I knew more about Monster Hunter, but 5e doesn't differentiate weapons enough to make those weapon sets make sense, and I can tell you speaking for myself at least, I don't like the awkward and clunky nature of that feature for the sake of being true to lore that I don't know. I don't know what others might think, though. It might be a huge hit with people who know the game. Overall, well-done, but I encourage some significant editing.

Spoiler: Portait Patron

Show

I like this a lot. The features make sense and fit the source material. One thing, make sure you explicitly state the DC of the saves provoked by the features; I assume it's your spell save DC?

Thanks! I took your advice and moved the hunter weapons into infusions with the subclass getting two of the new ones that didn't count against their infusions known. It's a lot more elegant though i hope some people give me some more feedback on it. They need some balance help i'm sure, i balanced them all around the assumption of BA opportunity cost. I don't think any of these are massively broken in relation to other options. As in i don't think they massively white room outdamage just a +1 Glaive with PAM or GWM +1 greatsword. At least not without some smart usage. Even the 2d8 GS i think evens out without a bonus to hit though id like to see someone better at back of the napkin DPR calculations tell me what they think.

I rebalanced some things i wasn't happy with and moved the hold hunter weapon rules into a "defunct abilities" section for the time being, but i'll scrub those once i'm more comfortable with the infusions.

EDIT: Also i'll get to looking over the others tomorrow. I'm too sleepy to continue functioning now.

[sengmeng]

Yes, it was meant to be spell save DC. I explicitly wrote this, but I thought that subclasses usually didn't state that in the official books, did they?

A did a quick look through just Warlock subclasses, and most don't have abilities with saves at all, but archfey does and says it's your warlock spell save DC, while the undead patron just says "a wisdom save," so the official books are mixed, but this is D&D; there's almost no such thing as overexplaining.

[RickAsWritten]

Hey all. Been a minute since I entered one of these, but it felt good to get back in that creating mindset. Anyway, my entry based on the video game Slay the Spire is up. The Defect is an Artificer Specialist that channels excess energy into orbs. They then proceed to blow those orbs up...or...encase themselves in ice...or just generally create mayhem. I hope you like it, as I had a blast writing it.

[Old Harry MTX]

Hey all. Been a minute since I entered one of these, but it felt good to get back in that creating mindset. Anyway, my entry based on the video game Slay the Spire is up. The Defect is an Artificer Specialist that channels excess energy into orbs. They then proceed to blow those orbs up...or...encase themselves in ice...or just generally create mayhem. I hope you like it, as I had a blast writing it.

Seems very cool!

[Damon_Tor]

In brightest day, in blackest night
My warlock patron awaits your sight.
Let those who peruse this great website
PEACH my entry, ignore copyright!

(EDIT: I'm aware the flight speed gets silly at high levels. That's a feature, not a bug. Zoom!)

[Jervis]

Ok, i live! I also finally have my labtop again so i can format these. Heres my thought if anyone wants to hear them

Spoiler: Patron: The Portrait

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Expanded Spell List: Pretty thematic, i like it.

Aging Portrait: I really like this feature mechanically, but it's weird you need to have it within 5 feet of you. It also doesn't give a size so you could have your portrait in a locket. Thematically having the portrait be something that you need to keep on you is kinda weird to the source material since Dorian was terrified of something happening to it, and if my memory of league of extortionary gentlemen is correct he died if he saw it. I might abstract it out a but more or make it like a phylactery, though that goes against 5e design philosophy so it's understandable.

Deceitful Youth: I like it. Not much of a balance issue, just a nice spell for you.

Beauty of the Vice: Very good counterspell effect. You're gonna be better at messing up spellcasting than anyone else in the party. At this level though you're probably fine, especially since counterspells are assumed at this level.

The Portrait of Life Trapping: Very strong save or die. In fact since it's infinite use it's a very. very strong way to burn legendary resistances. If a boss has it in it's line of sight then it has to save every turn or close it's eyes, meaning it has to deal with the blinded condition. You can also move where it's pointing (presumably) as an item interaction. I would also add a clause that you can choose which creatures are immune just because otherwise fighting a large group of creatures will result in them constantly popping in and out of the cell every round, also means party members don't need to deal with the blinded condition.

Over all, very nice. I personally might take a look at the capstone but over all it's fair and well made.

Spoiler: Rogue: The Archeologist

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Fisticuffs: Mostly a ribbon, but a very fun ribbon. More classes need unarmed combat. I might look at the wording again just because having your fists count as light finesse weapons might cause some jank with magic weapon and some other weirdness. The TWF BA attack though is nice, rogues have a very full BA economy but this is a good option for some extra damage or just punching someone in the nose.

Signature Weapon: I don't know if this is a bug or a feature but this allows you to use a greatsword for sneak attack, also lets you use GWM with a way to get free advantage turn 1. You can also do the Iaijutsu focus trick of carrying 50 Katanas greatswords and getting advantage every turn. That said, I'm actually not sure this does much more damage than the old sharpshooter with steady aim and phantom steed combo though so YMMV. Overall though i like the idea of the feature, it's nice.

Academia: This class is very front loaded though one's a ribbon and the other is more of a feature you get earlier so, eh. I will say as written this might stop you from selecting skills you already have prof in, which would be kinda weird for this thematically.

Social Genius: Good, I believe it's in line with the samurai feature so that's neat. Sort of brings back the Iaijutsu comparison from before. Except it's on a rogue that has good reason to invest in Int so it's automatically better. I like it.

I Hate These Guys: I appreciate the reference but getting favored enemy at level 9 is kind of weird. This also makes the GWM use very powerful in, say, a undead heavy campaign. I would probably replace this with something that uses those proficiencies you got earlier, maybe making a check with a Int skill at a certain DC depending on CR lets you get sneak attacks for free for a combat or something. Or Int to your sneak attack damage if you pass a certain int rolls related to something you're fighting. As is it's very campaign dependent, same as normal favored enemy.

Trap Sense: Good features are good.

You Betrayed Shiva: With expertise you basically have a free counterspell every round. This is level 17 but thats a lot of counterspell power. Also i think the Arcane Divine distinction doesn't really show up in all of the monster statblocks now so it might have some issues in use. I would personally put a use limit on it.

Over all very fun theme and i like it's early level abilities. I am slightly worried about the GWM synergy though.

Spoiler: Artificer: the Defect

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This is the first one i know nothing about when it comes to source material so be gentle.

Tools: Glassbowing needs more love, neat

Spells: I can't speak to the theming of these but its a very good list of spells overall.

Orb Manipulation: There's probably an exploit with plasma orb, grab eldritch blast somehow and your damage is doubled. It also restores spell slots. I also believe that the dark orb allows for infinite damage stacking since turns move outside of battle though i might be misreading the feature. Over all it's neat. I would probably just add a general rule that invoked orbs are destroyed instead of stating it at the end of each feature.

Channeling Skills: Very involved but interesting. This can probably lead to some absurd damage.

Orb Powers: All good, i would recommend some back of the napkin DPR calculations because just looking these over i see some potential for very very big numbers. Neat overall.

Artifacts of the Spire: Some nice recursion but i believe this also allows for some spell slot recovery with plasma unless i missed something.

Overall neat, i wish i new more on what this was based on. Also thank you for making me realize my levels on my artificer subclass where wrong.

Spoiler: Warlock: The Corps

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Spell List: All Very Very big spells. Very thematic too. Spiritual weapon is massive for a warlock.

Power Ring: I like the punch effect. Also fly speed at level 1 is massive but races get that so, eh. This might create a too awesome to use effect where flying up and casting EB is more attractive than using your spells but it's a interesting trade off. I also love the nod to spelljammer.

Defensive Aura: Works very well with your class spell list. I'm not sure if there are any massively broken combos with this.

Emergency Power: Nice level 10. Letting you use your flight all the time is good here.

Defensive Strike: I like it, some good melee DPR increase.

I love the massive fly speed you get here and i'm a sucker for green lantern. Just great all around.

[RickAsWritten]

Spoiler: Artificer: the Defect

Show

This is the first one i know nothing about when it comes to source material so be gentle.

Tools: Glassbowing needs more love, neat

Spells: I can't speak to the theming of these but its a very good list of spells overall.

Orb Manipulation: There's probably an exploit with plasma orb, grab eldritch blast somehow and your damage is doubled. It also restores spell slots. I also believe that the dark orb allows for infinite damage stacking since turns move outside of battle though i might be misreading the feature. Over all it's neat. I would probably just add a general rule that invoked orbs are destroyed instead of stating it at the end of each feature.

Channeling Skills: Very involved but interesting. This can probably lead to some absurd damage.

Orb Powers: All good, i would recommend some back of the napkin DPR calculations because just looking these over i see some potential for very very big numbers. Neat overall.

Artifacts of the Spire: Some nice recursion but i believe this also allows for some spell slot recovery with plasma unless i missed something.

Overall neat, i wish i new more on what this was based on. Also thank you for making me realize my levels on my artificer subclass where wrong.

Thanks for shining a light on some of the exploitable bits. I'll add some limiters.

• Once per turn for Plasma bonus damage.
• A limit to the amount of spells recovered per long rest.
• Make dark orbs reset after a minute or so.

I'm also going to change the number of maximum channeled orb slots from proficiency bonus scaling to a set number of three. The character in the game always has three, so it fits the theme better and prevents ridiculous stacking of passive abilities. To compensate, a new power, also from the game, will be created:

Capacitor
Increase the maximum number of channeled orb slots by 2.

Also also, reduced the damage reduction of frost orbs from 1d8 to 1d4. Multiple evoked (and Dualcast) frost orbs now add an additional 1d4 of damage reduction.

Also also also, reduced the base damage of dark orbs from double proficiency bonus to proficiency bonus. They still are capable of insane amounts of damage, but it slightly more reasonable now. Defined that dark orbs do necrotic damage.

[nickl_2000]

Monk: Way of the Spider is posted and ready for you to PEACH/rip apart. With this subclass you can be a Spiderdragon, Spiderowl, Spiderbug(bear), SpiderHare or any other type of Spiderthing that strikes your fancy! Join the group of friendly neighborhood Spider friends. However, remember that with great power....

[Damon_Tor]

Monk: Way of the Spider is posted and ready for you to PEACH/rip apart. With this subclass you can be a Spiderdragon, Spiderowl, Spiderbug(bear), SpiderHare or any other type of Spiderthing that strikes your fancy! Join the group of friendly neighborhood Spider friends. However, remember that with great power....

It's great!

I'd like to see spider-climb added as a movement speed instead of as a spell, and better integration of web-use into the monk fighting style. I don't think ki-to-spells is the way to go for this, none of the spells are a perfect match for the sorts of things you want to be doing with your webs, and as you've written it there's no inherent way the web spells fit into a monk combat turn.

Maybe explore using the net mechanics? Like, you generate super-strong nets, throw them father then normal, and ignore some of the drawbacks on nets for action economy.

[nickl_2000]

It's great!

I'd like to see spider-climb added as a movement speed instead of as a spell, and better integration of web-use into the monk fighting style. I don't think ki-to-spells is the way to go for this, none of the spells are a perfect match for the sorts of things you want to be doing with your webs, and as you've written it there's no inherent way the web spells fit into a monk combat turn.

Maybe explore using the net mechanics? Like, you generate super-strong nets, throw them father then normal, and ignore some of the drawbacks on nets for action economy.

I did try and put webs used in combat into the spells. Catapult fits really well with the "grab a rock and throw it at someone style of fighting" and web was a no brainer. I will think on the net usage, that is a good idea and maybe something I can make it something cool.

I figured that Monks can already run up walls, I didn't want to take away from that class feature, but I will consider a different way to do that as well. Maybe a combination of a climb speed and the ability to hang upside down without holding on early and running up walls later.