D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

[MrStabby]

Rogue - Hand of the Dead

Rogues who master the Hand of the Dead are masters of games of chance; the title is based on a particularly famous master who died while playing Three Dragon Ante. All rogues of this sort are incorrigible gamblers, no matter what style of gaming they dedicate themselves to.

Itinerant Gambler
At third level, you gain proficiency and expertise in any one gaming set of your choice. You can add half your proficiency bonus, rounded down, to any ability check you make with any gaming set that doesn't already include your proficiency bonus. If you are also proficient in Sleight of Hand, you always roll ability checks for gaming sets with advantage.

Luck of the Draw
Also at third level, as part of completing a short or long rest, you can play a game with a gaming set in your possession that you are proficient in, with or without opponents. Make a Dexterity-based ability check with your gaming set, and divide the result by 5, rounding down. This many times, you may re-roll any die for any reason; all remaining uses expire when you begin a rest.

Lucky for Me, Lucky for You
Beginning at 9th level, you may consume uses of Luck of the Draw to allow any creature you can see to re-roll any die for any reason.

Never Tell Me the Odds
Beginning at 13th level, you may consume uses of Luck of the Draw to force any creature you can see to re-roll any die for any reason.

Never Tell Me the Evens
Beginning at 17th level, you may consume multiple uses of Luck of the Draw when forcing a die to be re-rolled; instead of rolling it, set it to 5 times the number of uses you expend. Reduce any value above the maximum a die could roll to its maximum - for example, if you spend 1 use on 1d4, set it to 4, not 5.

I presume level 9 and 13 abilities are supposed to be different?

[Ilerien]

Jumping into the last car of a leaving train with Warlock of the Weaver. Feedback is very welcome, though I understand there probably will be none within timeframe this short. :)

[MrStabby]

Jumping into the last car of a leaving train with Warlock of the Weaver. Feedback is very welcome, though I understand there probably will be none within timeframe this short. :)

Oh I will take a look shortly! Let's see if I can squeeze a review in.

This makes a point... I should have said my evil domain was up and ready! It makes sense now that there was no feedback! I never said it was done. So er... similarly late, but go for it.

[Damon_Tor]

Jumping into the last car of a leaving train with Warlock of the Weaver. Feedback is very welcome, though I understand there probably will be none within timeframe this short. :)

I'll say it looks neat. Spell slot recovery shenanigans are something I would have to sit down and math out to see how good it really is. It feels very strong: the ability to turn 1 5th level slot into 5 1st level slots definitely has a bunch of excellent uses (shield comes to mind) but I don't think it's broken.

The mote system feels fiddly to me, but interesting enough. I'm not exactly sure how the system for upgrading the size of the dice is supposed to work. If you have 5 motes do you have 5d12 or 1d4+1d6+1d8+1d10+1d12? It just needs to be clearer.

Energy Efficiency is highly circumstantial, but I guess that's okay considering that isn't alone at 1st level.

Spell Penetration is also circumstantial, and since that's all you get at 10th level it's a bit more of an issue for me.

[Ilerien]

I'll say it looks neat. Spell slot recovery shenanigans are something I would have to sit down and math out to see how good it really is. It feels very strong: the ability to turn 1 5th level slot into 5 1st level slots definitely has a bunch of excellent uses (shield comes to mind) but I don't think it's broken.

The mote system feels fiddly to me, but interesting enough. I'm not exactly sure how the system for upgrading the size of the dice is supposed to work. If you have 5 motes do you have 5d12 or 1d4+1d6+1d8+1d10+1d12? It just needs to be clearer.

Energy Efficiency is highly circumstantial, but I guess that's okay considering that isn't alone at 1st level.

Spell Penetration is also circumstantial, and since that's all you get at 10th level it's a bit more of an issue for me.

Thank you for taking a look!
Spell slot recovery is actually the core innovation here. Shield crossed my mind too, but with current spell list you don't have it out of the box. Which, on second thought, is maybe bad, because shield is the ultimate spell of 1st level that doesn't benefit from upcasting.
For now, I think I'll place a hard limit on the number of times you can do the slot split thingy and add shield.

Thanks for pointing out vague wording. It's meant to be 5d12. :)

Energy efficiency is very circumstantial, the ribbon-y feel is intended.

Spell Penetration is indeed circumstancial, but the number of monsters with magic resistance is pretty large. I should probably add magic resistance to the warlock itself.

[MoleMage]

Wow, I lost track of time. It's been a busy month for me though so maybe it's for the best that I didn't try to add one more subclass to my docket.

In any event, it's voting time! https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...7#post25085537

[nickl_2000]

Wow, I lost track of time. It's been a busy month for me though so maybe it's for the best that I didn't try to add one more subclass to my docket.

In any event, it's voting time! https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...7#post25085537

Sorry folks, I didn't get all reviews done since I lost track of time myself. Looks like a lot of good entries though!

[Snowben Gaming]

Wow, I lost track of time. It's been a busy month for me though so maybe it's for the best that I didn't try to add one more subclass to my docket.

In any event, it's voting time! https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...7#post25085537

Well I clearly have no ability to keep track of time, as this is the 2nd contest in a row that's mostly just slipped by me. Well, at least I'd changed my mind and decided not to enter due to how busy I am irl right now, but I at least wanted to review some of the cool stuff all the rest of you made.

Ah well, there's always next time I guess.

[MrStabby]

Sorry folks, I didn't get all reviews done since I lost track of time myself. Looks like a lot of good entries though!

I fount this one OK, and I think I managed to coment on most - or at least most of those that looked ready for review. What I totally, totally failed at was the full class contest. For each entry there is so much to take on, so many interactions to evaluate, so many measures for success that I think I reviewed only a small fraction of the total... and then to vote I still have to process the rest anyway!

[nickl_2000]

I fount this one OK, and I think I managed to coment on most - or at least most of those that looked ready for review. What I totally, totally failed at was the full class contest. For each entry there is so much to take on, so many interactions to evaluate, so many measures for success that I think I reviewed only a small fraction of the total... and then to vote I still have to process the rest anyway!

That is 90% of the reason I don't do the full class contest. The last 10% is a combination of not really seeing the design space for multiple new classes and not wanting to use up all my ideas.

[CountDVB]

Ummm... I think votes need to be tallied

[MoleMage]

It's going to be a little bit late, I have been in the hospital for the last couple days. My treatment was effective and I'm supposed to be discharged later today, so hopefully this weekend I'll be feeling chipper enough to tally everything up and start the new thread.

[nickl_2000]

It's going to be a little bit late, I have been in the hospital for the last couple days. My treatment was effective and I'm supposed to be discharged later today, so hopefully this weekend I'll be feeling chipper enough to tally everything up and start the new thread.

No worries, there are things that are more important. Feel free to PM if there is anything I can do to help.

[Ilerien]

It's going to be a little bit late, I have been in the hospital for the last couple days. My treatment was effective and I'm supposed to be discharged later today, so hopefully this weekend I'll be feeling chipper enough to tally everything up and start the new thread.

Please, take your time and get well!

[MoleMage]

I'm back at the keyboard so here's the contest results!

In 3rd place, with 9 points total, it's Ilerien's Weaver Patron for Warlocks. Wear a stylish glove! Manipulate the threads of magic! Use wands and staffs more efficiently!

In 2nd place, with 10 points total, it's BerzerkerUnit's 5 Colors of Power Ranger. Be a Power Ranger! Force your friends to wear certain colors whether they want it or not!

And in 1st place, with 13 points total, it's Edea's Path of the Dragon Queen. Unleash the wrath of the five-headed dragon god! Change your energy type each time you rage! Deal damage to hordes better than any other barbarian!

And our winner for theme by a landslide was Bigger is Better. I'll have it formatted soon and posted to the chat thread. Warriors of Old was our runner-up so it'll stay in the voting pool for next time. Good luck in the next contest, everyone!

Time for that new contest smell, or whatever sensation purely digital creations have!

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...gger-is-Better

[Ilerien]

I'm curious. Does it fit the next contest theme is it benefits from the opposition being bigger than the character?

[Damon_Tor]

I'm curious. Does it fit the next contest theme is it benefits from the opposition being bigger than the character?

We are super loose with the themes. Look at how much we all stretched the "five" concept last time. I think a class that likes his opponents bigger is just fine.

[Ilerien]

We are super loose with the themes. Look at how much we all stretched the "five" concept last time. I think a class that likes his opponents bigger is just fine.

Then let me present a halfling monk that really excels at taking down foes of medium or larger size.

[nickl_2000]

I won't do it because it's to crass for a public website. However, I may make a seduction based Bard subclass that has the ability to enlarge certain parts to make myself laugh...

I find the idea humorous though

[Crim the Cold]

Tree of Life sorcerous origin is up in the contest thread. It is intended to be a take on characters who use their magical power to increase their physical might and therefore is intended to allow a sorcerer to be a secondary or tertiary melee character if needed. I would appreciate any tweaks and suggestions.

[Snowben Gaming]

It's not finished (it's not even half done) yet, but I figured I'd stick what I do have for my entry up. Therefore, introducing the College of Reputations: with a larger than life reputation, these bards take a more abstract approach to the theme, although it will get more literal once I finish it. I'll hopefully have finished my entry by the end of the week.

[nickl_2000]

Would creating an Elastgirl/Plasticman/Mr. Fantastic/Ms. Marvel type subclass be to much of a stretch (ahhhhh, to much of a stretch, get it? ) for a contest about being bigger?

[MrStabby]

Would creating an Elastgirl/Plasticman/Mr. Fantastic/Ms. Marvel type subclass be to much of a stretch (ahhhhh, to much of a stretch, get it? ) for a contest about being bigger?

That's an incredible idea.

[nickl_2000]

That's an incredible idea.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Apparently silly works? Threw something together just for the heck of it.

[nickl_2000]

Apparently silly works? Threw something together just for the heck of it.

Yes, silly, yet effective, often does incredibly well with this crowd.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Yes, silly, yet effective, often does incredibly well with this crowd.

Well, one of out of two ain't bad then, eh?

[nickl_2000]

Well, one of out of two ain't bad then, eh?

We shall see when we start looking over other people's entries


My own, Monk: Way of Elasticity is listed in it's first draft form.

[Crim the Cold]

Reviewing Path of the Troll-Kin first since it is the most like my own subclass.

First impressions:

Hulk Smash!!!

Now on to the rest of the critique.

Troll-Kin Growth: Barbarians already have an advantage on strength checks while raging so the size increase just lets them grapple bigger things. Some DMs would complain about hit die healing mid-fight at such a low level but its a limited resource and can easily be used up in a single fight at low level. Seems balanced to me.

Fleshmending: Improvement on the first ability of the subclass that also works outside of the primary class mechanic. Nice. Since this class lives and dies by its hit dice short rest recovery of hit dice is nice. I would have tied it to proficiency bonus though for a bit more even scaling through the levels. Until I looked up the long rest mechanic for hit dice recovery following reading the ability I had always thought that characters fully recovered hit dice after a long rest. 6 levels puts it out of reach of a casual dip so I feel its balanced. Limbing rules aren't used often but for players who have DMs who do the last ability is nice and I dont feel it is overpowered. As a DM I would feel free to Worf these barbarians far more often and that is hella useful.

Troll-Blood Draught: Barbarian subclasses gain a level at 10 not 11. Otherwise this is in-line with other barbarian subclasses and is somewhere between Path of the Beast and Ancestral Guardian in terms of power. Seems like a good fit.

Overgrowth: Prevents over-healing being wasteful. Improves party efficiency. Maybe should have an upper limit but I like the idea of a cleric dropping Heal on the Barb and the bad guy being like "Such a waste. You're only prolonging the inevit..." as the barb cuts him off with an epic beat down. Puny bad guy.

[nickl_2000]

Alright, it's review time!

Spoiler: Primal Path- Path of the Troll-kin

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Troll-Kin Growth - There is a lot of great flavor here and a nice concept. It would be prohibitively expensive to wear armor, but as you said the barbarian has unarmored defense that can cover this ability. I also really like how you did the healing aspect of trolls here and keeping it sane. It is very well done.

I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of unarmed strike available. Either a Smash attack if you want to lean into Hulk or a claw attack.

Fleshmending - This one seems a little powerful. Basically unless you take fire/acid damage or someone hits you extremely hard you cannot die and you wake back up after one round. I would prefer to see auto-stabilization only and not regenerate to 1 HP when stabilized.

Troll-Blood Draught - I have the same problem here as with Fleshmending, and it's the auto regenerate to 1 HP when stable.

Overgrowth - This one the other hand, seems a little week. The extra HP to temp HP is good, but it still requires a bonus action to get that and uses up a HD. The bonus in damage to use them up is nice, but by level 14 an extra 14 damage on one hit isn't all that much. I might look at temp hp x 2. However, you should also look at only being allowed to do this with temp HP gained through this feature. A Troll-kin barbarian and a Twilight Cleric would be a killer, killer combination.

A few small balance issues, but overall this is a really cool and fun class. I love the flavor with it and the feel of it. A couple small tweaks and you should be great!

Spoiler: Monastic Tradition: Way of the Hin Fist

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I have a soft spot for monks and a soft spot for halflings, so this is right up my alley!

Underfoot Combat - Wow, there is a lot going on here. You get an effective +2 AC nearly all time time since a +2 AC is amazing. A reaction that has no cost to make an attack target someone else if they miss you (when you already have +2 to your AC). The reaction needs to have a Ki cost to it or a limiter to it to balance out appropriately. Also, the half-cover seems like it might break things.

Blur of Motion - Okay, so now at level 5 you can attack 3 times, get a dodge bonus action so that off turn you can get +2 AC and disadvantage on anyone attacking you (effectively +7 AC). This is going to make you near unhittable. At level 5 with point buy that makes your effective AC 24 with spending 1 Ki per round. Then you use your reaction when they miss you to hit someone else instead.

The Harder They Fall - I assume this is a normal shove so that it replaces 1 attack?

Heightened Awareness - So basically you see everything, all the time. The cost is to low or the duration is to high for all that you are giving. Make it one minute and then it will be an in combat choice to decide if it's better to do damage or do this. That reduces the effectiveness significantly.

Underfoot Combat Mastery - This capstone is to much as well. You are making a very high AC even higher and adding onto the reaction ability that still needs a Ki amount to limit it. As for the Crit range, this doesn't bother me all that much.


You have a large amount of amazing flavor here and some really cool and fun things going on. However, the power is just to high and needs to be toned down throughout this subclass.

Spoiler: Tree of Life Sorcerous Origin

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Wild Growth - I feel like the double ASI is pretty abusable and just feels off to me, although I am not entirely sure why. I'm going to have to mentally build someone characters with this class to see if I can find a way to break it. This subclass immediately screams for Shillelagh, BB/GFB, and Mage Armor starting at level one. You spend the extra bonus points from ASIs you will have 20 Cha, 18 Dex, and 18 Con with a dex half-feat at level 8.

I think I found the build that this breaks things completely. A Sorciden is powerful to begin with, but now you don't need a dip into Warlock to attack with Charisma. However, you can boost your Con and your Str to use full plate and have massive attacks and HP. Then you reduce damage from there and you are an unstoppable killing machine

Feral Growth - I believe that this is at the point of breaking bounded accuracy completely. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but now I can boost my stats by +4 for the cost of 4 SPs and a bonus action, allowing me to get over 20. The damage reduction alone is extremely powerful and would be enough for this level.

Titanic Growth - And now you can't die very easily either.

So, this class has a good feel and fits a need that is missing for sorcerers. However, it needs to be majorly toned down in power to be usable at a table.

Spoiler: Bardic College: College of the Celebrity

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You forgot to mention the levels in the subclass features.

I’m Sure That You’ve Heard of Me - I like this, I never really liked the friends cantrip because it makes people hate you. This is a good ability since it is limited but still makes it more useful.

Travelling Incognito - This probably should be regained with a long rest. Since, you get it for an hour and can use it prof mod times per short rest, I'm pretty sure you can always be under it.

Larger than Life - So, charms cause damage. But a lot of charm spells end when they are harmed by you. You just need to define how that works with this.