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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by RickAsWritten View Post
    Wizard Arcane Tradition – Anti-Mage

    This...is the most ambitious subclass that I have ever attempted. I pretty much chopped-and-screwed one of the most iconic classes in fantasy gaming. I...really don't know if this is balanced or even how to balance it without extensive play-testing. I know that it's front-loaded, but I tried to keep multiclassing in mind. That said, I love the anti-mage trope and have been wanting to create something like this for a while, but none of the contests matched up theme-wise. Even if it needs some work, I'm proud of it and think it would be a lot of fun to play.
    Quick feedback just to point out what catches the eye immediately:
    You have a strong innate ability to perform magic
    Fluff-wise, sounds like a sorcerer to me, not a wizard, to be honest. :) Mechanics-wise, a sorcerer would make more sense too: would be odd if a 1st level wizard suddenly became its own antithesis after levelling up. Sorcerers get their subclass at the 1st level.
    In addition, the spell slots gained from this class cannot be used to cast spells from another class’ spell list.
    There's an inconsistency with 5e multiclassing rules: if you have spellcasting from more than one class, you can't distinguish between spell slots gained from one class or the other. I suggest disallowing spellcasting using spell slots altogether.
    In exchange for losing the ability to cast magic, you gain the innate abilities listed below and you can use the power of your spell slots to power anti-mage abilities that you gain as you level up.
    There should be more options fueled by spell slots: I see only one, and it's kinda situational. Before you get to the 6th level, you won't use your spell slots much. Also, most (if not all) options should take into account the expended slot's level.
    Last edited by Ilerien; 2020-12-23 at 10:42 AM.
    I am Lawful Evil (-14 chaos, 17 evil, 6 balance)


  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilerien View Post
    Quick feedback just to point out what catches the eye immediately:
    Fluff-wise, sounds like a sorcerer to me, not a wizard, to be honest. :) Mechanics-wise, a sorcerer would make more sense too: would be odd if a 1st level wizard suddenly became its own antithesis after levelling up. Sorcerers get their subclass at the 1st level.

    Hah, yeah it was originally a sorcerer, but I didn't feel comfortable with how much stuff I would have had to make available for a one-level dip. I know two isn't all that much better, but it's still twice the cost and twice the delay to your other class.

    There's an inconsistency with 5e multiclassing rules: if you have spellcasting from more than one class, you can't distinguish between spell slots gained from one class or the other. I suggest disallowing spellcasting suing spell slots altogether.

    Good suggestion, and fitting with the theme of being cut off from the weave.

    There should be more options fueled by spell slots: I see only one, and it's kinda situational. Before you get to the 6th level, you won't use your spell slots much. Also, most (if not all) options should take into account the expended slot's level.

    There's sort of two, but the other is mostly passive. Arcane Resistance requires you to have slots left.

    Good point though. I will definitely add some more uses for spell slots.
    See highlighted Thanks for the feedback!
    Last edited by RickAsWritten; 2020-12-23 at 10:53 AM.
    Spoiler: Homebrew Subclasses by RickAsWritten
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    On the fortune cleric: chess has no luck element, and presumably neither does dragon chess. It feels a bit odd that it would be available as a possible game proficiency for a fortune cleric with that in mind.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    The Stone Foot monk is ready for initial critique.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    On the fortune cleric: chess has no luck element, and presumably neither does dragon chess. It feels a bit odd that it would be available as a possible game proficiency for a fortune cleric with that in mind.
    I went with what the preexisting system had and so on for it. I’ll see if I can come up with other names though
    Last edited by CountDVB; 2020-12-23 at 12:45 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by RickAsWritten View Post
    Wizard Arcane Tradition – Anti-Mage

    This...is the most ambitious subclass that I have ever attempted. I pretty much chopped-and-screwed one of the most iconic classes in fantasy gaming. I...really don't know if this is balanced or even how to balance it without extensive play-testing. I know that it's front-loaded, but I tried to keep multiclassing in mind. That said, I love the anti-mage trope and have been wanting to create something like this for a while, but none of the contests matched up theme-wise. Even if it needs some work, I'm proud of it and think it would be a lot of fun to play.
    Its a wizard with no spells, with (in effect) a d8 hit die and armor and weapon proficiencies. I can't help but feel like the base class here is entirely irrelevant mechanically, so it's purely a fluff decision. You could make this a druid subclass and avoid having to change the hit points and armor, flavor it like a druid sect that believes magic is anathema to nature. Or it could be a cleric domain for a god is opposition to spellcasting. I'm just struck by the "why a wizard" problem.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Its a wizard with no spells, with (in effect) a d8 hit die and armor and weapon proficiencies. I can't help but feel like the base class here is entirely irrelevant mechanically, so it's purely a fluff decision. You could make this a druid subclass and avoid having to change the hit points and armor, flavor it like a druid sect that believes magic is anathema to nature. Or it could be a cleric domain for a god is opposition to spellcasting. I'm just struck by the "why a wizard" problem.
    I can't tell if that is a weakness in my design, or proof-positive that it follows the contest prompt to a tee. Probably both. It gives an easy sub-system template to remove spellcasting from other spellcaster classes, but at the same time doesn't go far enough to have a true identity.
    Spoiler: Homebrew Subclasses by RickAsWritten
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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by CountDVB View Post
    I went with what the preexisting system had and so on for it. I’ll see if I can come up with other names though
    You could expand your theme to be more of a "games" domain more broadly. But I don't think you need a third option that badly. You could cut the chess set and focus on the other two feature sets.

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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    You could expand your theme to be more of a "games" domain more broadly. But I don't think you need a third option that badly. You could cut the chess set and focus on the other two feature sets.
    I did go with what the original "Wild Card" subclass pattern had, which was dragonchess alongside die and cards. I might change it with something else if that's cumbersome.

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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by sengmeng View Post
    I like how the Atoner turned out. PEACH
    Bump. Not sure if this got seen since it was the final post last page.
    My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).

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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by sengmeng View Post
    Bump. Not sure if this got seen since it was the final post last page.
    I like it, it's probably my favorite so far. The simplicity of the system is good: I feel like complexity is looking like a challenge in this particular topic given the pressure to design a robust "system", but you've avoided it well without sacrificing the core of the theme. I could easily see a reverse ability, where a paladin could accrue good boy points for healing with his spell slots which he could then apply to his attacks like a smite.

    I have some balance concerns, but I haven't had a chance to sit down and really look at the numbers yet. My gut says that getting a level one spell every time you deal 5 sneak attack damage is probably broken. I'm not sure what would be more appropriate without doing some math. Given an average number of encounters we would want this guy to cast a similar number of spells per day comparable to a 1/3 caster of the same level, so whatever value would give you those numbers is what you should go with.

    I'll note that Detect Evil and Good doesn't actually do what it says on the tin anymore, so unless you really want to trick someone into thinking you're a fiend or a celestial, Karma Chameleon doesn't seem very useful.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    I like it, it's probably my favorite so far. The simplicity of the system is good: I feel like complexity is looking like a challenge in this particular topic given the pressure to design a robust "system", but you've avoided it well without sacrificing the core of the theme. I could easily see a reverse ability, where a paladin could accrue good boy points for healing with his spell slots which he could then apply to his attacks like a smite.

    I have some balance concerns, but I haven't had a chance to sit down and really look at the numbers yet. My gut says that getting a level one spell every time you deal 5 sneak attack damage is probably broken. I'm not sure what would be more appropriate without doing some math. Given an average number of encounters we would want this guy to cast a similar number of spells per day comparable to a 1/3 caster of the same level, so whatever value would give you those numbers is what you should go with.

    I'll note that Detect Evil and Good doesn't actually do what it says on the tin anymore, so unless you really want to trick someone into thinking you're a fiend or a celestial, Karma Chameleon doesn't seem very useful.
    I agree with your concerns for the most part, but the math involved is really simple as it is now. I might trash the spellcasting altogether if I can think of some other abilities.
    Last edited by sengmeng; 2020-12-26 at 01:51 PM.
    My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).

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  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by sengmeng View Post
    I agree with your concerns for the most part, but the math involved is really simple as it is now. I might trash the spellcasting altogether if I can think of some other abilities.
    The math is complicated only because its notoriously difficult to balance unlimited abilities against short-rest resources and against long-rest resources.

    A rogue deals ~3.5 sneak attack damage in a turn for every two levels in the class. At level 3 that's 7 damage per turn. At ~3 rounds per encounter, that's 2 1st level spells cast per combat, so with just two combats per day that's more than a paladin, artificer or ranger can manage per day at that level. That seems too high to me, especially because the rogue is a martial class, and thus any spellcasting subclasses should probably be balanced as 1/3 casters. I would think 10 bad karma points would be a more appropriate cost per spell-slot level.

    But as I said, this sort of balance is challenging. How many combat rounds exist in a given adventuring day can vary wildly from one table to the next, and from one module to another. IMO, assuming an adventuring day of 6 combat encounters of 3 rounds each is appropriate when attempting to balance a daily resource against an unlimited one.

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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    The math is complicated only because its notoriously difficult to balance unlimited abilities against short-rest resources and against long-rest resources.

    A rogue deals ~3.5 sneak attack damage in a turn for every two levels in the class. At level 3 that's 7 damage per turn. At ~3 rounds per encounter, that's 2 1st level spells cast per combat, so with just two combats per day that's more than a paladin, artificer or ranger can manage per day at that level. That seems too high to me, especially because the rogue is a martial class, and thus any spellcasting subclasses should probably be balanced as 1/3 casters. I would think 10 bad karma points would be a more appropriate cost per spell-slot level.

    But as I said, this sort of balance is challenging. How many combat rounds exist in a given adventuring day can vary wildly from one table to the next, and from one module to another. IMO, assuming an adventuring day of 6 combat encounters of 3 rounds each is appropriate when attempting to balance a daily resource against an unlimited one.
    I meant the math the player has to do for bookkeeping. Now I've altered it to have significantly less casting power, but oddly more healing power. I may rein in the healing.
    My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).

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  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by sengmeng View Post
    I meant the math the player has to do for bookkeeping. Now I've altered it to have significantly less casting power, but oddly more healing power. I may rein in the healing.
    Spellcasting looks much more balanced now.

    You're right, the healing might be a little much right now, but I wouldn't worry about it too much: it costs an action and has a range of touch, which limits its utility.

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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Hope everyone had a good New Year!

    Alot of these definitely look interesting

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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Alrighty everyone, I hope you had a good new year! My last week has been a little busy (mostly of the fun kind, fortunately), but I'm going to try to set aside a little time this week to get reviews up. While I'm at it, I'll be trying to think of ideas for an entry of my own. I certainly have enough systems already written, though I may be tempted to ask for permission to adapt someone else's.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    While we're in the voting period, there's a couple things I wanted to ask about, regarding potential special rules in contests.

    In general, how do people feel about special rules for specific contests?
    These can be simple things, like the "I Read This" contest requiring that you specifically name the source of inspiration, or we could do a theme where they are more complicated, like my question below regarding the potential future Subsystems theme. Are they too interruptive? Do they make things more fun? What sort of restrictions should apply before an additional rule is declared?



    Subsystems Online is doing consistently well in the theme voting, now in its third consecutive vote as it carried forward on the runner-up rule. For this contest specifically I had a few optional rules ideas, but I obviously don't want to do anything that makes the contest less fun.

    All of these rules options hinge on the idea that this contest requires the creation of a new game system, like Battlemaster Maneuvers or Spellcasting in the core book, which the submitted subclass will use.

    • Option 1: The contest is done as normal.
    • Option 2: The contest is done as normal. During the voting round, a bonus round is submitted simultaneously in the same thread where in addition to voting for the best subclasses, votes can be made for the best subsystems.
    • Option 3: A special rule is introduced, allowing players to submit a second subclass which must use the same subsystem. This subclass is not eligible for the initial round of voting, but a bonus round made up of these second classes exists (possibly combined with a second bonus round for subsystems themselves).
    • Option 4: A special rule is introduced, allowing players to collaborate in teams of up to 3. Members of a team may each submit their own subclass, which must implement a subsystem that the whole team worked on together. Subclasses are voted on individually, while subsystems receive voting in a bonus round. If a subsystem wins, credit goes to all members of that team.
    • Option 5: Participants are allowed to use a subsystem created by another participant (EDIT: with permission). This works like option 4, but only the original creator of the subsystem gets credit for victories won by their subsystem.
    • Option 6: A combination of options 3, 4, and 5. No subsystem is allowed to have more than 3 official creators or more than 3 subclasses created for it, but a creator can submit a second class for it, or further participants can receive permission to create an additional class for it. Subsystems can be made by individuals or teams, and receive a bonus voting round. In this one, secondary classes created by a single person would only receive a bonus round if a minimum number existed (otherwise they serve only to showcase the subsystem).
    While I'm here, I remembered and used the Search Function to find this discussion from 19 months ago specifically about this contest. Woulda been better if I had remembered that before making the contest, because it's a little late to change the rules on the contest. I like the way the current version is running, besides.

    However, I'm now considering opening a mini-contest during voting (so only two weeks instead of the customary four), for anyone who wants to create a different subclass using one of the entries' new systems (obviously only with permission), including the option to create a second subclass for your own new system. Thoughts?
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Little more than a week left

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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by CountDVB View Post
    Little more than a week left
    Sorry folks, I haven't been able to find the time to write or review anything this time around. I will be back for the next one and will vote when those are up.

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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Sorry folks, I haven't been able to find the time to write or review anything this time around. I will be back for the next one and will vote when those are up.
    No worries! It has been a bit quiet here.

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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Would anyone else like an extension? Time got away from me a bit this month but I would still like to do reviews and make a subclass for this one.
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Would anyone else like an extension? Time got away from me a bit this month but I would still like to do reviews and make a subclass for this one.
    I don't need one, but I have no objections. Seconded.

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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Would anyone else like an extension? Time got away from me a bit this month but I would still like to do reviews and make a subclass for this one.
    Thirded. I think I'll have time to get mine finished before the current deadline, but I could use some more time to get reviews out.

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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Three's the cutoff, two week extension is now in place!
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Reviews!

    Spoiler: College of Musicians
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    Frankly, if I had my druthers, magic users would have more varied mechanics. Everyone being Vancian (even pseudo-Vancian) makes the system a lot cleaner, but I love mechanics.

    This is your Song: the 18th level magical secrets would give this subclass the ability to use two (different) 9th level spells each day. No other class has the ability to cast more than one 9th level spell per day (the Cleric can do so once per week, provided their Divine Intervention roll succeeds or they are level 20, I guess).

    Actually, other than that I don't have a lot to say here. The mechanic looks fun to use, if a little challenging if you want to cause damage (since you can only use each damage type category once, as I understand it). Overture and Haunting Melody work well to expand the underlying system, and I don't see any overt abuse. It's hard to fit something like this onto the College level progression, so any more would make certain levels feel very bloated.


    Spoiler: Way of the Stone Foot
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    I really like the flavor of this class, and I enjoy the stance mechanics too. I'm a little sad that there's only one stance for it, but I see how another would get in the way of the theme and features. I would add the ability to

    The individual features all look okay to me, though the focus on grappling ironically seems hindered by the limited mobility, since you can't really drag people around very easily (on the other hand, you can shove whatever you want with a +10 to Str checks once you get Earthroot Chakra and max Wis). Muladhara Binding looks hilarious, just the idea of grabbing guys and chucking them at other guys is a really iconic adventure story thing that 5e really doesn't have a good way to model, until now.

    Incidentally, would you mind if I used the Stance mechanic in an entry of my own? I'm curious about trying to expand it.


    Spoiler: Fleshwarper
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    You know, until you wrote this I had forgotten about 3.5's fleshgrafts. I assume they were in the inspiration.

    Grafting: You have an optional sidebar about not gaining infusions in exchange for gaining grafts (seemingly in case the grafts seem too powerful). As an alternative, you could allow infusions as normal, but make it so that Grafts count against your infusion limit (with their own stricter limit on top of it, and correspondingly higher power).
    Gaining a Graft: Generally 5e measures monsters against their Challenge, rather than their Hit Dice like 3.5 did. Other than that, this seems fine, if a little dependent on your DM being forgiving. An ability that allows you to preserve a limited number of grafts would be nice, though perhaps too strong.

    The Grafts: I would add an extra line so they read:

    Graft Name
    Graft Type
    Location:
    Donor Creature:
    Description of the graft and its effects.
    The current wording makes it hard to tell whether the Donor is specific or general (for example, the first sentence of Keen Sense makes it seem like you need parts from specific creatures, while the second and fourth suggest that any creature is acceptable provided it has the right trait).

    Other than that, I think you have a solid start, though you have your work cut out for you filling the graft list.


    Spoiler: The Atoner Rogue
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    I think the features of the class function mechanically, but I have two slight gripes. The first is balance-based. The Atoner can essentially produce karma points indefinitely provided he can Sneak Attack creatures. While this puts a practical limitation on the short term frequency, it also suffers from the "bag of rats" problem. The rate of gain is also a little too high relative to the usability (a 9th level Atoner can cast a 1st level spell basically every other round, or every round if it's a bonus action to cast).

    The other gripe is that there's no way to get good karma!

    As a more specific note, Karma Chameleon does very little unless your rogue is already some sort of extraplanar entity. In 5e, there aren't any core features that detect alignment, or any at all that I know of other than some artifact weapons not functioning for certain alignments. The second part of it is powerful enough to maybe count as a whole feature by itself, and I guess you could technically use it as written to appear as a celestial being to paladins and spellcasters.


    Spoiler: Fortune Domain
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    There are a lot of different mechanics here, so I'm not entirely clear on what is supposed to be the transferrable subsystem. Is it adding extra effects to tool sets? The Wild Card system looks pretty nifty and I could see expanding that, but that's not even a guaranteed feature.

    Loaded Dice: I like that the number scales with Proficiency, but the limit per use does not; proficiency scaling is clean but dangerous for multiclassing abuse, this mitigates that significantly.
    Dragonchess--Sylph: The range on this is perhaps more limiting than it needs to be for its effect (predictive defenses are hard enough to use already, and this feature does nothing if nothing explodes during that round).

    Hallowed Fortune: This isn't Potent Cantrips nor Divine Strike, but it fills the same niche so I'll let it slide (for now).
    Sanctified Wild Card: I really like transformation capstones, so this gets a pass in my book. The fact that it refreshes your special mechanics is nice too, because it means that the cleric isn't likely to nova with it early on, creating a more tactical mindset to it.

    Overall it looks like a fun domain, but I'm not seeing what the subsystem is supposed to be here.


    Anti-mage, Jade Phoenix Magic, and Beast Spirit reviews planned for tomorrow!
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Reviews!

    Spoiler: College of Musicians
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    Frankly, if I had my druthers, magic users would have more varied mechanics. Everyone being Vancian (even pseudo-Vancian) makes the system a lot cleaner, but I love mechanics.

    This is your Song: the 18th level magical secrets would give this subclass the ability to use two (different) 9th level spells each day. No other class has the ability to cast more than one 9th level spell per day (the Cleric can do so once per week, provided their Divine Intervention roll succeeds or they are level 20, I guess).

    Actually, other than that I don't have a lot to say here. The mechanic looks fun to use, if a little challenging if you want to cause damage (since you can only use each damage type category once, as I understand it). Overture and Haunting Melody work well to expand the underlying system, and I don't see any overt abuse. It's hard to fit something like this onto the College level progression, so any more would make certain levels feel very bloated.
    Thanks so much for the feedback!

    2 9th level castings is an unexpected interaction, but since you can’t pick the same one twice I think double wishes is about the only thing you’d really need to look out for at that level. You trade away a lot of oomph for the versatility Works of Art represent.

    About Works, damage type is limited only by amount of passion, it’s the Conditions like Prone, Poisoned etc that you need to rest before using again.

    While I don’t go into it bc it’s intended to be a system of personal expression, I think of damage types as colors or keys, so while an artist might have a Blue Period (all Cold damage), or an album in Minor E (all Psychic damage), they will change up subjects and technique or instruments and lyrics (the conditions).

  27. - Top - End - #87
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Spoiler: Way of the Stone Foot
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    I really like the flavor of this class, and I enjoy the stance mechanics too. I'm a little sad that there's only one stance for it, but I see how another would get in the way of the theme and features. I would add the ability to

    The individual features all look okay to me, though the focus on grappling ironically seems hindered by the limited mobility, since you can't really drag people around very easily (on the other hand, you can shove whatever you want with a +10 to Str checks once you get Earthroot Chakra and max Wis). Muladhara Binding looks hilarious, just the idea of grabbing guys and chucking them at other guys is a really iconic adventure story thing that 5e really doesn't have a good way to model, until now.

    Incidentally, would you mind if I used the Stance mechanic in an entry of my own? I'm curious about trying to expand it.
    The depth of your stance is meant to be a tactical consideration. You'll need depth 4 or 5 to wrestle the tarrasque, but for dragging the enemy archmage back into the anti-magic field that would be overkill. Also, from a balance perspective, consider that monks can do things like dash as a bonus action, so putting some limits on a monk designed to be top-tier grapplers seemed like a good idea; I'm not a stranger to the balance problems that can arise from grappling builds. (EDIT: misremembered my own stance penalty for a minute there)

    Yes please, I'm happy to let you use the stance mechanic.
    Last edited by Damon_Tor; 2021-01-20 at 11:37 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #88
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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Spoiler: Anti-mage wizard
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    The use of spell slots for effects other than spells is pretty cool, but I think the real draw here is Arcane Resistance; it would be cool to lean into this new-to-5e "if you have spell slots remaining" mechanic.

    Martial Training: It should probably specify that it also grants light armor proficiency, if we follow traditional wording design. Unless it actually doesn't, in which case it should definitely specify that.
    Nullify Magic: This comes three full levels before the actual Counterspell spell, but it's an action instead of a reaction, so it's probably okay. I might make it a Spellcasting Ability Check instead of a Wisdom Saving Throw, though it's probably fine without that change.

    Arch Anti-mage: The Surged Strike description should either read "two/three additional attacks" or "you can make three/four total attacks". Right now it seems like you're getting three/four extra attacks. It should also specify whether all attacks get the bonus damage or just one (I assume all of them).

    I rather like it. It's an extremely nontraditional use of the wizard base class, but I think you've got enough going on here that a character who builds this way is going to feel like they still have stuff to do, especially when fighting spellcasters (which is the whole point, right?).


    Spoiler: Jade Phoenix Magic
    Show

    Oh man, I remember that Martial Adept. It was such a cool adaptation. Good to see it renewed again.

    I also want to say how happy I am to see you've made a full-progression class in one mechanic (spellcasting) with a partial-progression subclass in another (Initiating) because pretty much every time I design a new mechanic (I'm up to four, each with at least one full progression class, I think?) I want to do that too. I mentioned on a previous review that I want a version of 5e with more than one power mechanic and hybrid (sub)classes like that would be key to making it really cool.

    Looking at it, it looks like this is actually a half-progression instead of one-third progression. That may be a little too much power. It's hard to say for sure without testing it (since you're still battling the action economy and Arcane Escalation burns through your spell slots if you want to initiate strongly), but my gut says one-third would be a more ideal target.

    2nd level is pretty slim by necessity, since you need to fit in the whole new mechanic. Arcane Escalation is an excellent hybridizing feature, exactly what I want to see from this sort of subclass.

    6th level: The Greater stance benefits for both of the unique stances are seriously strong, but I also notice that you can't even maintain a Greater stance without burning a slot every turn until 20th level, so I guess it's not unreasonable.

    10th level: Quickening Strike worries me a little bit since maneuver dice are essentially a free resource. The other two seem more okay since they don't mess with the as-they-say action economy.

    At a few points throughout, you specify some variant of "spells, but not cantrips". There's wording used in a handful of places in the PHB (I know for sure Wild Magic Sorcerer) that says "spell of 1st level or higher". You could also use the slightly wordier "expend a spell slot to cast a spell" if the goal is to make it resource-limited (since Signature Spell exists for Wizards).

    Emerald Immolation: It's a better return than most actual uses of a 7th-level spell, but only just. Again I'd have to see it in play to be sure.

    Overall, it's faithful to the original mechanic and expands on it logically, but I'm a little worried about its ability to go resource-hog compared to a normal wizard. It has more resources and too many of its features revolve around giving it ways to dump them more quickly. I'd look at some of them and find ways to encourage alternating resources instead (like Empowering/Heightening strike already do). Would definitely play if given the opportunity though.


    Spoiler: Beast Spirit
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    It looks like the Subsystem for this one is the pet mechanic used by UA Drakewarden? A solid pick, functional pet mechanics are hard to pull off in 5e for some reason.

    Spirit Form: These stats seem really high to me, especially the Armor Class and the 6-level early fly speed (the swim speed restriction is less egregious). If you pick an owl, you've turned a 1 HP creature into a basically-untouchable flying greatsword (owls get Flyby, and with the extra AC and HP you can still shrug off at least a couple ranged attacks).

    Animal Spirit: Does this consume a resource? As written you can just resummon this as an action to restore it to full HP at will. I would either make it cost a resource (wild shape or spell slots) or require that you summon it during a rest.

    Enhanced Spirit: this is fine. You have a specialized form, now you have a big specialized form.

    Spirit Calling: It looks okay (not any stronger than say, Conjure Woodland Beings, other than the lack of concentration), but it should have some more details about how you interact with the extra pets; for example, when I command my Animal Spirit with a bonus action do all of them receive the same command or can each one do something different?

    Master of Spirit: I assume the effects of increasing the size of your spirit animal(s) are the same as the effects of Enhanced Spirit (less the magic attacks)? Should probably specify that here.

    Overall, I think it's a little too strong. The stats on spirit form are too high, a fully scaled pet on top of that, and the 9 levels of spellcasting with really solid options like Call Lightning all come together to make this feel more like the 3.5 druid's level of power. The idea seems good though.
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

    Spoiler
    Show

    My DMsGuild content. Most of it was written with feedback from right here on the forums.

  29. - Top - End - #89
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Spoiler: Jade Phoenix Magic
    Show

    Oh man, I remember that Martial Adept. It was such a cool adaptation. Good to see it renewed again.

    I also want to say how happy I am to see you've made a full-progression class in one mechanic (spellcasting) with a partial-progression subclass in another (Initiating) because pretty much every time I design a new mechanic (I'm up to four, each with at least one full progression class, I think?) I want to do that too. I mentioned on a previous review that I want a version of 5e with more than one power mechanic and hybrid (sub)classes like that would be key to making it really cool.

    Looking at it, it looks like this is actually a half-progression instead of one-third progression. That may be a little too much power. It's hard to say for sure without testing it (since you're still battling the action economy and Arcane Escalation burns through your spell slots if you want to initiate strongly), but my gut says one-third would be a more ideal target.

    2nd level is pretty slim by necessity, since you need to fit in the whole new mechanic. Arcane Escalation is an excellent hybridizing feature, exactly what I want to see from this sort of subclass.

    6th level: The Greater stance benefits for both of the unique stances are seriously strong, but I also notice that you can't even maintain a Greater stance without burning a slot every turn until 20th level, so I guess it's not unreasonable.

    10th level: Quickening Strike worries me a little bit since maneuver dice are essentially a free resource. The other two seem more okay since they don't mess with the as-they-say action economy.

    At a few points throughout, you specify some variant of "spells, but not cantrips". There's wording used in a handful of places in the PHB (I know for sure Wild Magic Sorcerer) that says "spell of 1st level or higher". You could also use the slightly wordier "expend a spell slot to cast a spell" if the goal is to make it resource-limited (since Signature Spell exists for Wizards).

    Emerald Immolation: It's a better return than most actual uses of a 7th-level spell, but only just. Again I'd have to see it in play to be sure.

    Overall, it's faithful to the original mechanic and expands on it logically, but I'm a little worried about its ability to go resource-hog compared to a normal wizard. It has more resources and too many of its features revolve around giving it ways to dump them more quickly. I'd look at some of them and find ways to encourage alternating resources instead (like Empowering/Heightening strike already do). Would definitely play if given the opportunity though.
    My sincere gratitude for the review!

    Loved this maneuver mechanic at the first sight, tbh :D

    Half-progression is indeed a bit strong, but numbers just don't add up if maneuver dice progression is slowed down. There are two core points:
    • the ability to match full Martial Adept initiating power at any level by expending a slot of appropriate level;
    • the ability to maintain a greater stance at 20th level without burning through spell slots, sort of an implicit capstone.

    I don't think Quickening Strike is an issue. Consider that you have to 1) have a strike/dash readied, and regaining maneuvers puts additional strain on your action economy; 2) deal damage with it meaning you have to hit with a melee weapon attack except the strike from Desert Wind; 3) divide your limited maneuver dice between the maneuver itself and a spell you want to quicken which still consumes a spell slot in addition to maneuver dice (unless it's a signature spell), or quicken a cantrip which isn't a big deal.

    Emerald Immolation is usable once per long rest and is sort of situational: do you really want to nova everything around yourself at the cost of removing yourself from combat for several rounds? It's fairly useful to get rid of annoying poisoned condition with a long duration outside of combat or just heal yourself without expending hit dice.

    Wording could use some improvements indeed, I'll make them shortly. :)
    Last edited by Ilerien; 2021-01-20 at 07:04 PM.
    I am Lawful Evil (-14 chaos, 17 evil, 6 balance)


  30. - Top - End - #90
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Spoiler: Anti-mage wizard
    Show

    The use of spell slots for effects other than spells is pretty cool, but I think the real draw here is Arcane Resistance; it would be cool to lean into this new-to-5e "if you have spell slots remaining" mechanic.

    Martial Training: It should probably specify that it also grants light armor proficiency, if we follow traditional wording design. Unless it actually doesn't, in which case it should definitely specify that.
    Nullify Magic: This comes three full levels before the actual Counterspell spell, but it's an action instead of a reaction, so it's probably okay. I might make it a Spellcasting Ability Check instead of a Wisdom Saving Throw, though it's probably fine without that change.

    Arch Anti-mage: The Surged Strike description should either read "two/three additional attacks" or "you can make three/four total attacks". Right now it seems like you're getting three/four extra attacks. It should also specify whether all attacks get the bonus damage or just one (I assume all of them).

    I rather like it. It's an extremely nontraditional use of the wizard base class, but I think you've got enough going on here that a character who builds this way is going to feel like they still have stuff to do, especially when fighting spellcasters (which is the whole point, right?).
    Thanks for the feedback. Made a bunch of changes based on your suggestions. See spoiler.
    Spoiler: Changelog
    Show
    • Added light armor proficiency
    • Changed Surged Strike and its upgrade to better match existing WoTC wording
    • Added several instances of the "while you have spell slots remaining" mechanic
    • Changed the flavor text
    • Added bonus ability to Signature Spell replacement
    • Added phrasing to to limit some feats
    • Added limited 10th level aura to Arcane Resistance.


    And here's a link to the thread since it has become buried on the second page.
    D&D Subclass Contest XX: Subsystems Online
    Spoiler: Homebrew Subclasses by RickAsWritten
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