D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

[Ilerien]

For Bunch of Fives it's subclasses that use their hands (like fists, but also five-finger discount, etc.)

I'm going to be rather uncreative and present a monk subclass

[Damon_Tor]

"Pair of Fives" made me think of cards and gambling, which was the starting point for the subclass I'll be posting (a rogue)... though it's drifted a bit from that concept.

My thought process went from "a gambler might have secret pockets for hiding aces and such" to "I bet he can hide small weapons in there too" to "okay, this is now a knife-throwing specialist with some minor gambling fluff". Oh well.

[Snowben Gaming]

So I've had an idea for Bunch of Fives ever since the previous voting period. Shadow animal bard time!

[Damon_Tor]

So I've had an idea for Bunch of Fives ever since the previous voting period. Shadow animal bard time!

Ooh, ooh, a bard focused on clapping. Like a... a preschool teacher or something.

[MrStabby]

Hmm. The Happy Slapper Barbarian might be coming out to play.

[CountDVB]

Congrats to the winners!

[MoleMage]

Aw sod I forgot to vote and I run the thing. I used to be so much better about this stuff. Oh well, time to tally.

Alrighty, even though I forgot to vote myself, it's time to tally those votes and find our...wow. clear breakway here.

In third place, earning 8 points overall, MrStabby's Guide Ranger! Take command of the situation and direct your allies strikes where they're needed most!

In second place, earning 10 points, we have BerzerkerUnit's Way of the Cruel Master! Your methods are questionable but the results undeniable.

And our overwhelming first place entry, with 16 points, we have Damon_Tor's Deathtouched Sorcerer! Raise the dead. Swarm your enemies with the dead. Spread the dead. A minionmancy subclass for the ages.

Next contest is Bunch of Fives (five fingers, that is). Thread coming soon!

Tally done. New contest soon!

[nickl_2000]

Aw sod I forgot to vote and I run the thing. I used to be so much better about this stuff. Oh well, time to tally.

I think as long as the vote is in before the tally thread you are good to go, and it's pretty easy for you to get it in before the tally thread



Congratulations on the great entries everyone and to the winners!

[MoleMage]

I think as long as the vote is in before the tally thread you are good to go, and it's pretty easy for you to get it in before the tally thread



Congratulations on the great entries everyone and to the winners!

I could, and if it were anyone else I'd let it slide as long as they beat me to the tally, but it feels like I'm taking advantage of being the organizer if I do it myself. I don't think my votes would have changed anything today anyway, we had some breakaway leaders at the front this time around.

New contest is up, too! https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...5#post25050185

[nickl_2000]

I could, and if it were anyone else I'd let it slide as long as they beat me to the tally, but it feels like I'm taking advantage of being the organizer if I do it myself. I don't think my votes would have changed anything today anyway, we had some breakaway leaders at the front this time around.

New contest is up, too! https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...5#post25050185

I know I wouldn't be bother by it, even if I were pushed out of first place (although that wasn't an issue this time, way to many amazing entries for me to compete :) ). Also, since we knew about the next contest I got a head start. So, I've added my Druid Circle of the 5th element.

[CountDVB]

Druid of the 5th Element is really clever! Hope you like my handy wizard !

Also, to nickl_2000, maybe your Druid could also gain magic missile as a circle spell? Since you only have one spell there.

[MrStabby]

Well this is a tough one. I had started to pull out a few ideas but it seems that others are running with themes pretty close to what I had planned so mot sure what to do.

I need some inspiration.

Thinking an Hells domain cleric themed round 5s could be good fun to try. Hand of Law, Pentagrams, the Five rings of Binding, stygian mist (though I was thinking of a custom spell for each layer which would unwind this).

I guess to emphasise 5 I could narrow it to a Styx domain.

Hard choices!

[nickl_2000]

Druid of the 5th Element is really clever! Hope you like my handy wizard !

Also, to nickl_2000, maybe your Druid could also gain magic missile as a circle spell? Since you only have one spell there.

I wasn't actually planning on putting in a 2nd level set of spells. That was a copy and paste error :)

Although now that I did. There is nothing wrong with Magic Missile and Zephyr Strike at 2nd level. Thanks

[nickl_2000]

Well this is a tough one. I had started to pull out a few ideas but it seems that others are running with themes pretty close to what I had planned so mot sure what to do.

I need some inspiration.

Thinking an Hells domain cleric themed round 5s could be good fun to try. Hand of Law, Pentagrams, the Five rings of Binding, stygian mist (though I was thinking of a custom spell for each layer which would unwind this).

I guess to emphasise 5 I could narrow it to a Styx domain.

Hard choices!

Here are some left over ideas from when I was brainstorming for the concept. Feel free to borrow, steal, or modify any of these ideas if they jump out at you.

5’s Contest
-5 finger death punch
-5 finger discount
-5th element (the movie)
-5 senses (touch, sight, hearing, smell and taste)
-5 love languages
-5 finger Monk
-Gimme 5 (based on hand slaps/high 5s)
-Take 5, subclass based on bonuses while taking a short rest

[MrStabby]

Here are some left over ideas from when I was brainstorming for the concept. Feel free to borrow, steal, or modify any of these ideas if they jump out at you.

5’s Contest
-5 finger death punch
-5 finger discount
-5th element (the movie)
-5 senses (touch, sight, hearing, smell and taste)
-5 love languages
-5 finger Monk
-Gimme 5 (based on hand slaps/high 5s)
-Take 5, subclass based on bonuses while taking a short rest

Cheers, although of these I had already considered 5th element, 5 finger discount and broadly unarmed monks which seemed well represented before I could join.

5 senses is an interesting one. Not sure where that would go but certainly some scope there. Maybe a planescape sensate class?

[CountDVB]

Cheers, although of these I had already considered 5th element, 5 finger discount and broadly unarmed monks which seemed well represented before I could join.

5 senses is an interesting one. Not sure where that would go but certainly some scope there. Maybe a planescape sensate class?

Well, you could always try and do a bare-handed Fighter class. Or maybe a Rogue specializing in hand-based assassination.

There's also maybe something with Pentagrams, which could be for a few caster classes.

[Damon_Tor]

I fiddled around some with a fighter based on a pro-wrestler. Unarmed strikes and grapples would be front and center, as would improvised weapons (specifically, but not limited to, chairs) but the subclass would actually utilize cha heavily, mugging for the audience (whether there was one actually there or not).

[Damon_Tor]

The Maverick is up and ready for feedback.

[nickl_2000]

Cheers, although of these I had already considered 5th element, 5 finger discount and broadly unarmed monks which seemed well represented before I could join.

5 senses is an interesting one. Not sure where that would go but certainly some scope there. Maybe a planescape sensate class?

That would be why I didn't build based on it, the idea was interesting but I couldn't figure out how to make it work. I might see if I can make one anyways.

I want to see someone make a bro style support class based on high/ low fives.

[Lvl45DM!]

That would be why I didn't build based on it, the idea was interesting but I couldn't figure out how to make it work. I might see if I can make one anyways.

I want to see someone make a bro style support class based on high/ low fives.

I feel like 5 senses would go well with Ranger maybe. Rough to have any combat abilities though.

The capstone ability of the hi five class (College of Bros! No wait! Way of the Congratulator!) has to be "Down Low? Too Slow!"

You know what there are 5 of in Dnd? Base Alignments. Good, Evil, Law, Chaos and Neutral.
Claiming Oath of Concordance Paladin

[Ilerien]

And now I'm kind of in doubt. With all these creative interpretations of the current contest's theme, will a monk subclass that is just shoehorned into using unarmed strikes and not weapons even fit, or should I think up something else?

[CountDVB]

And now I'm kind of in doubt. With all these creative interpretations of the current contest's theme, will a monk subclass that is just shoehorned into using unarmed strikes and not weapons even fit, or should I think up something else?

Probably if you can find a way of implementing a unique aspect to it

[MrStabby]

So... been looking through some options:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5

I figure the 5 second rule could be a nice addition to a monk that prones people - some effect if they lie on the ground for more than 1 round. Or possibly combine it with the 5 tastes for a cullinary subclass.


It is hard to really make "5" come through with my first thoughts. Still - this is fun.

[nickl_2000]

Looks like several entries have matured to the point of being ready for a first review.

Spoiler: Roguish Archetype: The Maverick

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The flavor text at the top is awesome, kudos on that I really love it.

You forgot to add levels to your abilities. I'm assuming it goes 3, 3, 9, 13, 17 since that would be fitting with the abilities.

Escamotage - This ability is extremely appropriate thematically, but a little underwhelming when it comes to class abilities. Making a dagger/dart 1d6 puts it on the same level shortbow and shortsword which are both options that a rogue gets without even thinking. The longer range is a nice addition to it, but you still have a better option in the crossbow or shortbow. So, what is the fix? I think there needs to be an additional ability to get a sneak attack with a dart of dagger rolled into this. Possibly something like this
"You are adept at hiding and surprising enemies with small blade. During your turn, you can draw and attack with a hidden dagger or dart. Make a slight of hard roll against the opponents perception. On success, you are eligible to make a sneak attack" or something of the like. Getting a sneak attack isn't all that hard, but it does get the idea of a surprise through without giving easy advantage.

Hidden Pockets - Great RP potential and fun to see in action. Little to no impact on combat itself, which is perfectly fine. I like this ability a lot.

All In - That is a lot of dagger you could go through in a single battle! I really like this ability to. It's a nice way that a rogue can deal with a group of weaker enemies instead of one powerful enemy. Question on it, do you want each attack to be 1d6 + Dex or just 1d6 (per the sneak attack dice)? I can see both being successfully argued as the right way to do it, so I'll just leave it at mentioning it.

Jinx - So you are giving all enemies disadvantage on initiative for the rest of your career? Also, -5 on all passive perception checks to see you sneaking? Also, you are giving them disadvantage on all grapple checks. Seems pretty powerful to be an always on ability, I would rather seem this limited to X uses per rest to keep it a little more balanced.

The flavor all the way through this subclass is amazing, everything fits the contest and the theming of the character beautifully. I think there are a few power issues that need resolved, but overall this is a really good entry.

Spoiler: Wizard: School of Chiromancy

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Hex Hands - So this is a flat out debuff for wizards at level 2. At level 1, you write 6 spells into your spellbook and at level 2 you add 2 more (making a total of 8 spells). However, once you get to level two with point buy you can only have 5 (+3 int, 2 wizard levels) spells in your new hexhands. By levelling up, you have effectively lost access to 3 spells that you had before. So, now you can no longer get non-prepared spells cast as a ritual and in return you don't get any boosts that I can see.

Magical Handiwork - This is fine, as a flavorful addition to the Wizard.

The Magic Touch - The advantage on somatic only spells I thought was silly overpowered, then I looked online for the list. This is actually a really, really small list. It is amazing on counterspell attempts and catapult is nice, but overall it's really not that great of a list.

The ability to cast a spell with range of touch it pretty nice, I like that one a lot.

Powerful Palmistry - Seems fine.

Mastery of Manos - there is one part of this that is interesting
"If you cast a spell that requires only a vocal component and are unable to speak, you can cast it with just a somatic component instead. You do gain the bonus of The Magic Touch feature."
This has actually made it beneficial for me to be able to gag myself in the middle of combat so that I get advantage on the spells. Just an odd interaction.


Overall, it's fitting into the theme and interesting. The Debuff at level 2 is a significant problem though, considering that most PCs don't make it in Tier 3, that is a major part of their career where they will lag behind all other wizard subclasses.

Spoiler: Monk: Way of Balance

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Air and Water - 1 Ki for 3d8 healing is a huge amount of healing at this level, and from an action ecomony standpoint it is even better since you can heal 4 people with one action. This compares to the Way of Mercy Monk, which need does it at touch range and get martial arts dice + Wis Mod for 1 ki. I think this needs to be toned down a little bit.

Tremorsense - Fitting for the character, seems fine to me.

Dancing Dragon - Both the abilities here seem overpowered, although running the numbers on Firebreath it isn't all that far off. You do need an action cost added to this though. The 30 ft cone seems a little large for this ability, but this one may be fine as well. I would see what others think before you change anything on it. As a small side note, how does sleep related to the elements?

Weave Blocking - This needs a repeated save at the end of each round. Sure it's expensive to cast, but you run into the BBEG archmage at the end of a campaign. Hit them with a weave blocking, then step back and attack the mooks while your party completely splatters the mage who can't stop them. Since you haven't attacked the mage, it doesn't get it's spells back. So, it may as well be a commoner with a lot of HPs at this point.

I think there needs to be a little bit more connection to the Cosmic element for some of the abilities. I see the Air, Water, Fire, and Earth well enough.

[CountDVB]

Looks like several entries have matured to the point of being ready for a first review

Spoiler: Wizard: School of Chiromancy

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Hex Hands - So this is a flat out debuff for wizards at level 2. At level 1, you write 6 spells into your spellbook and at level 2 you add 2 more (making a total of 8 spells). However, once you get to level two with point buy you can only have 5 (+3 int, 2 wizard levels) spells in your new hexhands. By levelling up, you have effectively lost access to 3 spells that you had before. So, now you can no longer get non-prepared spells cast as a ritual and in return you don't get any boosts that I can see.

Magical Handiwork - This is fine, as a flavorful addition to the Wizard.

The Magic Touch - The advantage on somatic only spells I thought was silly overpowered, then I looked online for the list. This is actually a really, really small list. It is amazing on counterspell attempts and catapult is nice, but overall it's really not that great of a list.

The ability to cast a spell with range of touch it pretty nice, I like that one a lot.

Powerful Palmistry - Seems fine.

Mastery of Manos - there is one part of this that is interesting
"If you cast a spell that requires only a vocal component and are unable to speak, you can cast it with just a somatic component instead. You do gain the bonus of The Magic Touch feature."
This has actually made it beneficial for me to be able to gag myself in the middle of combat so that I get advantage on the spells. Just an odd interaction.


Overall, it's fitting into the theme and interesting. The Debuff at level 2 is a significant problem though, considering that most PCs don't make it in Tier 3, that is a major part of their career where they will lag behind all other wizard subclasses.

I made some adjustments! I hope you find it an improvement.

[MrStabby]

Starting reviews with way of Balance.

Overall, I am not feeling the theme of the competition running deep here. Having to wait till 17th level to get your quintessential ability means that for most of the game there is no sense of bunch of fives.

In terms of mechanics it also feels a bit all over the place, although this is probably inevitable. The fact you are trying to shoehorn abilities from 5 different elements into one class was always going to make it a challenge to have it feel like a coherent whole.

The individual abilities are also on the strong side. Healing for 3d8 for 1 ki? Being able to get mass curative effects before clerics bards and druids? This seems a bit much.

Likewise the fire effect for 12d6 area of effect is stepping pretty hard on the toes of fireball, especially as Ki comes back on a short rest. Even the fiend pact warlock with short rest fireballs as a major feature would see this as very strong (and a d10 fireball at level 11 would be 1/3 of the short rest resource of the class).

Sleep... an area of effect control element on top? Well I am not seeing the elemental connection to sleep but could be something here I am missing.

I guess I feel the class should be tuned downwards a little. It is really good at too many area with the subclass: damage, control, healing, shutting down casters... all on top of being a monk as well. Nothing wrong with flexability but I don't think you should excel in so many areas.

That said, some of the abilities themselves are cool and thematic. I think that things like your 5th element ability could be reworked to come earlier - this is both a cool ability, one that could compliment other monk abilities but also somewhat different from other classes so less likely to be stepping on their toes. Closest anti caster option might be monster hunter ranger (wis/dex/anti caster) so keeping a different feel to this might be useful.

I loved the imagery of the water container for the water ability. Building a material elemental components theme for the other abilities might be cool and could also be used as a point of balance?

I feel a bit harsh saying this - there is a lot to like and I feel like I have just focussed on the bits I don't which is unfair.

[Damon_Tor]

You forgot to add levels to your abilities. I'm assuming it goes 3, 3, 9, 13, 17 since that would be fitting with the abilities.

Thank you. I had it listed on two of the abilities but not the others. I've fixed it.

Escamotage - This ability is extremely appropriate thematically, but a little underwhelming when it comes to class abilities. Making a dagger/dart 1d6 puts it on the same level shortbow and shortsword which are both options that a rogue gets without even thinking. The longer range is a nice addition to it, but you still have a better option in the crossbow or shortbow. So, what is the fix? I think there needs to be an additional ability to get a sneak attack with a dart of dagger rolled into this. Possibly something like this
"You are adept at hiding and surprising enemies with small blade. During your turn, you can draw and attack with a hidden dagger or dart. Make a slight of hard roll against the opponents perception. On success, you are eligible to make a sneak attack" or something of the like. Getting a sneak attack isn't all that hard, but it does get the idea of a surprise through without giving easy advantage.

Excellent idea: I've added something very close to the suggested ability. The version I've settled on is an ability that resembles the Inquisitive's Insightful Fighting ability, but the Maverick's ability only lasts one turn, with the tradeoff that it can effect multiple opponents (important for synergy with All In later).[/quote]

All In - That is a lot of dagger you could go through in a single battle! I really like this ability to. It's a nice way that a rogue can deal with a group of weaker enemies instead of one powerful enemy. Question on it, do you want each attack to be 1d6 + Dex or just 1d6 (per the sneak attack dice)? I can see both being successfully argued as the right way to do it, so I'll just leave it at mentioning it.

It would be 1d6+Dex for each enemy.

Jinx - So you are giving all enemies disadvantage on initiative for the rest of your career? Also, -5 on all passive perception checks to see you sneaking? Also, you are giving them disadvantage on all grapple checks. Seems pretty powerful to be an always on ability, I would rather seem this limited to X uses per rest to keep it a little more balanced.

Good points: I've limited it to proficiency modifier per short or long rest. Plenty of uses to see frequent use, but you would run out with overuse.

The flavor all the way through this subclass is amazing, everything fits the contest and the theming of the character beautifully. I think there are a few power issues that need resolved, but overall this is a really good entry.

Thanks!

[MrStabby]

Thoughts part 2. The Maverick

Escamotage

I like a lot of this - the d6 on the weapon die is small but a nice bit of fluff, the gaming expertise is proably a ribbon, but very thematic. The ability to use a bonus action to get the needed conditions for sneak attack in another way is a weak bonus - hiding is a similar opposed roll but also gives advantage.


Hidden pockets is similarly cool. More than just a ribbon but nothing really game changing and more about smuggling than combat. The odd thing is that drawing and stowing as part of another action would be great for multiple attacks with two weapon fighting... only the rogue only gets one attack.

My gripe is that level 3 doesnt seem to mechancally pin down a playstyle or key lasting benefit of the subclass. Some small mechanical bonuses and a whole load of cool, but not like the assisin's assasinate ability, AT magic, the mastermind's bonus acion help etc.. That key ability that will be important for levels 1 to 20 and sets the mechanical tone for the subclass seems missing. An extra average 1 point of damage on an attack + another way to spend a bonus action to get advantage just seems to lack in distinction when it comes to the experience of plying the character - obviously a guess as I haven't played one, but that's my worry.

All In on the other hand seems crazy, crazy good. OK, talking best case scenario here, but still informative you are replacing a D6 SA die with an attack that will deal D6+5 (assuming you used your 2 ASIs to max dex). I.e. you are more than doubling damage output, circumventing overkill and being able to handle the rogues big weakness of multiple enemies. Dip a level of war cleric to grab divine favour and you push this even further over the top. And there is no limit to this. Compare this to the Assassinate ability - critical hit does less than double damage, you have to jump throuh a huge number of hoops to get it and you are pretty much limited to one per combat.

I mean I get that concentrated damage is better than diffuse damage, with the possible exception of breaking concentration on multiple spellcasters or similar but this just feels wrong.

If I were you I would limit it to the first round of combat and to items hidden with the hidden pockets ability that would somewhat cap it. Even then I think it is really strong.


Jinx is another very thematic ability. The opposed skill check thing is pretty cool and would let you be a pretty awesome grappler with expertise and reliable tallent, even if you dumped strength. Min of 19 and opponet with disadvantage will take down a lot. This is cool. The initiative thing might be just a little too broad. The ability feels like it should be a choice to use which requires awareness. A minor limitation like specifying a creature you can see would help keep ambushes relavent in the game and keep one role open for other classes to cover.

Borrowed Luck was something I thought was too good at first pass, but it actually encourages more interaction. Sure, you can get a load of critical hits but then convert it into obscene damage, but your enemy gets one round to hide, impose disadvantage or some other means of making the attack ineligable for sneak attack and obviating the success. I think it is still very powerful as given the rogue's ability to get both advantage and massive numbers of attacks this is going to see a lot of use but hey... its 17th level and you are probably playing alongside wish or similar by that point.



Spoiler Q&A

"If I have an ability like Action Surge which lets me take another action on my turn, can I use All In twice?" - my reading of the rules might be a bit different here and this mightmean some sharpening up of language is needed. Sneak attack decision is made when you hit, not when you declare an action. You can attack intending to sneak attack and miss and leave yourself able to sneak attack with any second attack. With all in your sneak attack is locked in earlier - not sure if it is an issue and wondering if there is going to be a problem with it not quite being a like for like replacement.



All in all I love the subclass. Theme is great, I see the link with quick hands, it cas mechanically cool abilities. My two concerns are just 1) your level 3 doesn't seem to have the key iconic ability that defines the subclass and 2) that level 9 ability is a bit much - frankly reining in that single ability would bring everything else into line.

[Damon_Tor]

Feedback on the Circle of the 5th Element

Druid - Circle of the 5th Element

Most intelligent species in the realm know of the primary 4 elements (Air, Fire, Water, and Earth), but the uninitiated often don’t know about the 5th element, spirit, that fills all the spaces where the other four elements aren’t. When one learns how to control the spirit in between, they can do amazing things only available to the most powerful of magic users. They can control others around them, set up invisible barriers, and even transport themselves over great distance. When combined with the other 4 elements, it is even more powerful.

I'm not sure "spirit" is the best for this, as it's already heavily used in the lore. Alchemists used to use the words "aether" or "quintessense" for the concept of a fifth element (that's the literal meaning "quintessence" in fact. "Circle of the Quintessence" would sound cooler IMO, but that's a matter of taste)

Circle of the 5th Element Spells

Druid Level	Circle Spells
2nd	Magic Missile, Zephyr Strike
3rd	Misty Step, Spiritual Weapon
5th	Revivify, Thunder Step
7th	Dimension Door, Resilient Sphere
9th	Far Step, Wall of Force

Good list! Revivify sticks out to me though, as I'm not sure how it relates to the themes expressed elsewhere in the class. Minor quibble.

Spirit Shield
At level 2, as an action, you can use one of the uses of your wildshape to summon a spirit shield around yourself and your allies. When you do this, you gain 2x your druid level in temporary hit points that can be distributed to any allies that are within 60 feet of you.

Great ability. I feel like you need to clarify when the thp can be distributed: as written it seems you, the caster, first gain all the thp and then may distribute them to your allies. It isn't clear that the redistribution of said thp can only occur at the time of casting or if they can be distributed at a later point of your choosing.

Minor Spatial Manipulation
Additionally at level 2, you learn the mage hand cantrip. The hand is invisible and functions by manipulating the space and spirit around the object rather than the object itself and does not count against your cantrips known.

Very good.

Spiritual Repulsion
At level 6, any creature that is currently under the effect of your spirit shield also gains resistance to Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing damage from non-magical weapons. Once all the temporary hit points from this feature are lost (or replaced by temporary hit points from another spell of ability), the damage resistance is also lost.

Cool.

Major Spatial Manipulation
At level 10 you can, as a reaction to an Area of Effect spell or ability being used, use your connection with space to manipulate the location of creatures. Choose a creature within 120 feet of you, that creature must make Charisma save against your spell DC. If they fail, you can switch the location of that creature with another creature within the Area of Effect of the spell or the ability. This has no effect on success.

This ability can be used proficiency mod times. Uses of this ability are regained when you complete a long rest.

We all know what you mean, but I don't think "Area of Effect spell or ability" is the appropriate term. I think it would be "A spell or ability which targets an area". I'm also not sure what you mean by "This has no effect on success." Does this imply that even though you switch the creatures' locations, the creature you swapped out of the area of the spell is still affected by it? Also, I feel like a creature should be able to willingly fail the save.

Complete Spatial Awareness
At level 14, you have learned complete spatial awareness. As such, you gain permanent Blindsense to 60 feet. Additionally, the teleport spell is added to your spell list. When you cast the teleport spell, any roll that results in a mishap is changed to a similar area instead.

Neat capstone, very nice.

[MrStabby]

Druid Circle of the 5th Element

I have had reall difficulty forming a view on this class. The main reason is that I don't like it but mostly for subjective reasons; it isn't in any way bad. There is nothing wrong with it. It isn't that I don't like it because it needs fixing. It just doesnt appeal.

So I will try and split my thoughts into two - feelings and thoughts. Why I don't like it then a more mechanical set of thoughts.

I don't like it because it doesn't feel like much of a theme - it is an "everything druid" and takes the worst parts of the omnimancer wizard and sorcerer whose spells span so many effects that feel disconnected.

I don't like it as the things that get added don't feel like a natural extension of what it is to be a druid but rather a bolt-on of everything that feels unnatural. I can see "spitit" druid be cool as the 5th element, but nothing really screams spitit to me. Where are the spirit guardian, spirit shroud, speak with dead, conjure undead, guardian of faith spells? Instead we seem to have a "Force" druid.

I feel that all of the additions represent someone who would just be better off playing a wizard - given the frequency with which the circle spells crop up on the wizard list.

I don't like that it gets wall of force - one of the most powerful spells out there and something that alone is a big boost and undermining a key reson to play an arcane caster. Also, in general the circle spell list is very much on the strong side and very much stepping on other classes toes.




But... more objectively... this is well done with a good balance of strong and weak abilities.

Very, very strong spell list but that is not objecively bad.

Spirit shield is very useful, but not that strong. Pretty uncontroversial... the exception being doing it at end of day to carry resources over to the next day or to cary resources through a short rest. Maybe the temp HP only last for 8 hours? 1 hour?

Minor spatial manipulation - another small ability but cool enough.

Spiritual Repulsion - Now Spirit shield gets very useful. Buff the flimsiest party member and add 1 pt to everyone else (especially those that might want to take half damage to better pass concentration checks.

Major spatial manupulation - whilst I am still trying to reconcile teleporting people around with "spirit" this is a very cool ability,but possibly able to be abused. Is it intended that the swapping just be for hostile spells or are you cool with dropping a maelstrom and then teleporting an enemy into it? How about something that catches a party familliar flying 120ft overhead? But why stop here - only one of the creatures you want to swap has to be within 120ft... cast locate animals or plants with a 5 mile radius and if you can get a creature up high enough then you can drop your enemy from low earth orbit. Are you happy with this inflicitng falling damage as well?

Complete Spatial Awareness - Looks good. Blindsight and teleport are unlikely to break the game.