Clockwork Soul question(s)...

[samcifer]

For the first sub-class ability, you can, as a reaction, negate advantage or disadvantage to a target within 30 of you and do so a number of times per long rest equal to your proficiency bonus. I assume that this is only on a single attack, right?

My real question is: just how useful is this ability? Is it something that could come up often enough o be useful, or is it something that will likely go unused most of the time?

Just curious as to peoples' thoughts on this ability and how good/bad/meh it is.

[bendking]

For the first sub-class ability, you can, as a reaction, negate advantage or disadvantage to a target within 30 of you and do so a number of times per long rest equal to your proficiency bonus. I assume that this is only on a single attack, right?

My real question is: just how useful is this ability? Is it something that could come up often enough o be useful, or is it something that will likely go unused most of the time?

Just curious as to peoples' thoughts on this ability and how good/bad/meh it is.

It's pretty good in tier 1 but gets much worse the higher up in levels you go when enemies start consistently getting multi-attack.
I also think the 6th level feature is also pretty meh: the cost is really high for what it gives. However, it can be quite useful when preparing for a big fight and you have leftover slots to burn to fuel this feature.
However, the spell list you can get with Clockwork Soul is so crazy that all of this is forgiven.

Spoiler: Clockwork Soul Spell List

Show

V.Human [Metamagic Adept] - Subtle, Careful, Twinned, Transumtated:
1 - Mage Armor, Disguise Self [Absorb Elements, Shield]
2 - Suggestion, Misty Step [Enlarge/Reduce, Aid]
3 - Fireball, Hypnotic Pattern [Counterspell, Haste]
4 - Sickening Radiance, Greater Invisibility, Dimension Door [Polymorph, Stone Shape]
5 - Synaptic Static, Telekinesis [Wall of Force, Animate Objects]

[Darzil]

For the first sub-class ability, you can, as a reaction, negate advantage or disadvantage to a target within 30 of you and do so a number of times per long rest equal to your proficiency bonus. I assume that this is only on a single attack, right?

My real question is: just how useful is this ability? Is it something that could come up often enough o be useful, or is it something that will likely go unused most of the time?

Just curious as to peoples' thoughts on this ability and how good/bad/meh it is.

Not sure how useful, but it's a reaction, so usable on anyones turn (including your own, such are reacting to another's reaction), and applies to any d20 roll, not just to an attack.

So could be situationally useful, I imagine mostly for spell saves or attacks, either helping make them count or helping stop them. Not sure disadvantage on death saves happens often, but certainly worth a use if it did!

[stoutstien]

For the first sub-class ability, you can, as a reaction, negate advantage or disadvantage to a target within 30 of you and do so a number of times per long rest equal to your proficiency bonus. I assume that this is only on a single attack, right?

My real question is: just how useful is this ability? Is it something that could come up often enough o be useful, or is it something that will likely go unused most of the time?

Just curious as to peoples' thoughts on this ability and how good/bad/meh it is.

It hard to see a case where it goes unused. The strongest use is probably to use it to prevent adv/diadv from canceling out. Being able to bypass magical resistance and then getting disadvantage on top of that can be a big swing to stick an encounter ending spell.


The range is also 60 ft for what it's worth.

[sophontteks]

It's a ribbon ability. It's just something there to give clockwork sorcerers something fun and flavorful. As far as ribbon abilities go, it's pretty good. Like stoutstein said: "It's hard to see a case where it goes unused."

There is just no mistaking that the meat and potatoes of a clockwork sorcerer (and aberrant for that matter) is the expanded spell list.

[samcifer]

One use that comes to mind is helping a barbarian who has recklessly attacked to prevent a foe from having advantage to attack him before his next turn. Not sure if that works or not, tho.

[Corran]

For the first sub-class ability, you can, as a reaction, negate advantage or disadvantage to a target within 30 of you and do so a number of times per long rest equal to your proficiency bonus. I assume that this is only on a single attack, right?

My real question is: just how useful is this ability? Is it something that could come up often enough o be useful, or is it something that will likely go unused most of the time?

Just curious as to peoples' thoughts on this ability and how good/bad/meh it is.

Not sure how it works in Tasha's, but the UA version did not restrict this to attacks. It applies to any d20 roll (as long as the other limitations are satisfied). For attack rolls, and without any additional context, I can see this being situationally great when you have a (ranged) rogue ally, cause negating disadvantage could easily mean that they get to add sneak attack damage. Though with steady aim as an option, this is maybe too situational. Regarding ability checks, this will probably come up the most when scouting is involved, since dim light (or effectively darkness when seeing with darkvision) can impose disadvantage on your perception checks IIRC. That can be handy, but it most likely means you want to join up with the main scouter (or that you are the one doing the scouting). Usefulness will depend on the occasion obviously and on how often the DM is using the advantage/disadvantage mechanic when it comes to skill challenges (eg do you hear often your DM tell you to roll a persuasion check with disadvantage, or are they just using higher/lower DC's alone to illustrate the difficulty?). When it comes to saves, I can see this working well if your plan involves using spells that perform worse if the target is hostile/ combat has initiated. So we are probably looking at enchantment spells here, stuff like charm X or more likely dominate X. If you are aready playing a clockwork sorcerer, the 1st level ability is an additional reason to at least consider grabbing one/some of those spells and mabe even include them in your list of strictly combat options. The best use of this ability will probably come up when fighting something with magic resistance, against which you or an ally would really like to use a save or suck spell. Most likely one of those spells that really do the job when the target fails just one save (eg wrathful smite, levitate, polymorph, banishment, etc). I think this last one will come up more often when up against extraplanar threats with magic resistance which you might want to just banish. Though it really depends on if the particular save or suck spell you are using is the right one for the occasion in the first place.

tl;dr : I just see a lot of situational value in it which I wouldn't mind having. But on its own it's not enough to convince me playing a clockwork sorcerer. As a 1st level feature, it's kind of ok, and I think it scales decently (which is something you cannot say about other low level sorc features).

[Quietus]

Just for reference :

Your connection to the plane of absolute order allows you to equalize chaotic moments. When a creature you can see within 60 feet of you is about to roll a d20 with advantage or disadvantage, you can use your reaction to prevent the roll from being affected by advantage and disadvantage.

You can use this feature a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.

[Asmerv]

I think there's plenty of great uses of this ability. In combat, most effective uses would probably be cancelling disadvantage for a Rogue to grant sneak attack, and removing advantage from saves. Outside combat, there's plenty of critical skill checks that get disadvantage such as armor-imposed disadvantage on Stealth or Perception penalties due to environmental circumstances.

I can't see not using this ability completely most adventuring days. Most of the time it will feel like it made a difference too.

[RogueJK]

Potentially handy when trying to get a key "save or suck" spell to stick against a foe with Magic Resistance (which gives them Advantage on the save roll), such as when trying to cast Banishment on a Fiend to send it back to the Nine Hells.

[micahaphone]

I'll point out that you can swap out spells that you get from your origin spells list, and Armor of Agathys is one of the options. That makes the level 6 shielding ability a lot more potent.

[Kireban]

For the first sub-class ability, you can, as a reaction, negate advantage or disadvantage to a target within 30 of you and do so a number of times per long rest equal to your proficiency bonus. I assume that this is only on a single attack, right?

My real question is: just how useful is this ability? Is it something that could come up often enough o be useful, or is it something that will likely go unused most of the time?

Just curious as to peoples' thoughts on this ability and how good/bad/meh it is.

It is fine, but nothing to write home about. Treat it as a fluff feature and be happy if you get the chance to use it. Just dont do it if there is a high chance to need a shield or absorb elements on that same turn.

[Teaguethebean]

Honestly I feel like that feature is pretty bad but the extra spells are game changing. You can grab the must picks of shield, absorb elements, counter spell, and dispel magic and just be able to get the spells you want.

[Temperjoke]

I think it's a useful ability. Sure, you might be able to survive the enemy having advantage on something, or a teammate having disadvantage, but this helps the odds be in your favor just a little bit. For example, a lot of status conditions give advantage/disadvantage, this helps negate some of the dangers you've got. Such as being prone gives advantage to your enemy's attacks if they are within 5 feet, or if your opponent is prone, you get disadvantage if you're at range. Removing that advantage/disadvantage could make a huge difference.

[Sception]

If you expect to face a lot of enemies with spell resistance - for instance you're going to be playing Descent to Avernus - the ability to cancel out advantage on saves from spell resistance is very significant. My conquest paladin would have happily gone with clockwork instead of divine soul on his sorcerer multiclass for that.

[InspectorG]

It hard to see a case where it goes unused. The strongest use is probably to use it to prevent adv/diadv from canceling out. Being able to bypass magical resistance and then getting disadvantage on top of that can be a big swing to stick an encounter ending spell.


The range is also 60 ft for what it's worth.

^This.

I have to reread the rules, but this may make Fog Cloud a discount 'Darkness+Devil Sight' combo. Darkvision wouldnt help either.

[MrCharlie]

It's pretty good in tier 1 but gets much worse the higher up in levels you go when enemies start consistently getting multi-attack.
I also think the 6th level feature is also pretty meh: the cost is really high for what it gives. However, it can be quite useful when preparing for a big fight and you have leftover slots to burn to fuel this feature.
However, the spell list you can get with Clockwork Soul is so crazy that all of this is forgiven.

V.Human [Metamagic Adept] - Subtle, Careful, Twinned, Transumtated:
1 - Mage Armor, Disguise Self [Absorb Elements, Shield]
2 - Suggestion, Misty Step [Enlarge/Reduce, Aid]
3 - Fireball, Hypnotic Pattern [Counterspell, Haste]
4 - Sickening Radiance, Greater Invisibility, Dimension Door [Polymorph, Stone Shape]
5 - Synaptic Static, Telekinesis [Wall of Force, Animate Objects]

You forgot extended spell so you can extend Aid the night before a big dungeon and give everyone 5+(5/2 levels) extra HP for free. Otherwise the exact specifics of your list aren't terribly important-the point is that there is a lot you can do with the clockwork soul list, and the fact that they get the 2 1st level abjurations for free is absurd, on top of all the other things they can do.

And as others have pointed out-the primary use is on saving throw advantage disadvantage at high levels, as is true for more abilities that generically interact with advantage or disadvantage. The best use is probably to negate magic resistance, which can be relatively common as enemies with it are prolific at higher levels.

[samcifer]

So We played tonight, I rolled stats the following way as per our rules:

8 rolls of 2d6 +6, drop the lowest 2 rolls, optional +2 +1 stat rule and add and extra +1 to any stat.

I got lucky with 17, 15, 15, 12, 12, and 12

I went +1 to the 15 and +1 Cha with the 17 and +1 Dex for 16 DEx, taking the free +1 to my other 15 along with the +2 for 18 Con and ended up with (we leveled up to Lv5 at the end of the session, so I'm including the added spells below):

STR 12
DEX 16
Con 18
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 18


I also changed my Half-Orc racial proficiency from Intimidation to Perception.

Class is Clockwork Soul Sorcerer with prof. in Arcana and Deception, background is Outlander with the Giant language.

We got a free feat at lv. 1, so I took Eldritch Adept and Armor of Shadows as my E.I. for at-will Mage Armor for added defense, bring my AC up to 16.

We also got a free +1 item, so I took a +1 Hand Crossbow.

Metamagics: Empower and Quicken

LV4 ASI/feat: Tough for more survivability through more HP.



My spells are:

C:

Blade Ward (for defense, used when Flaming Sphere is out)

Create Bonfire

Fire Bolt

Mending (in case his beloved pocket watch ever gets damaged)

Mind Sliver


LV1:

Magic Missile (for guaranteed damage)

Absorb Elements (Replaces Alarm)

Armor of Agythys (replaces Protection from Evil and Good)


LV2:

Flaming Sphere (repeatable damage from a single spell slot and possibly hurts 2 or more foes, situationally)

Misty Step (For escaping foes and safe movement in dangerous places, like chasms, cliffs, etc.)

Tasha's Mind Whip (love this spell and against a usually low stat, also good for damage, then safely retreating in melee)

Aid

Spider Climb (replaces Lesser Restoration, which I've never seen being useful as it never works on what we've needed it to get rid of)


LV3:

Fireball
Dispel Magic
Protection from Energy (resistance from cold and other elements - I feel it's worth keeping in Icewind Dale).

So far he's done well. We we fought a Frost Troll and the new firbolg Rune Knight archer got lucky with the fire rune when the troll failed his initial save against it. I used Mind Sliver with Flaming Sphere to good effect with a TMW thrown in for some added spice and it was bloodied before it was able to get free of the fire rune's shackles effect. The other players are a half0orc fighter (not sure his sub-class) and a tiefling fiend warlock modeled after Puffin Forest's warlock corporation training video on youtube with his dead wizard character as the warlock's new patron.

EDIT: The other fighter is a half-orc champion fighter with low HP due to bad hp rolls. I got super lucky on mine and am now at 52 HP on my sorc. I'm considering going up to lv. 8, them mc-ing into a warlock, maybe the celestial pact for some healing.

[samcifer]

As a follow up, we had another session last night and my ability to shut down advantage really came in useful as we had to fight druegar 2 times and the second one was with the wife of the abomidable yeti that killed most of us last time wearing her husband's skull as a helmet. I stuck with Tasha's Mind Whip and Mind Sliver and our rune knight managed to fire shackle the yeti. On the yeti's third turn I had gotten a Mind Sliver and hit her with the advantage negation on spell saves, but she got a crit on her save. I took a round of heavy damage (almost 50 pts. of damage) from a volley of arrows from 3 druegar. We got to level up at the end of the session and in light of how much damage I had taken, so I elected instead of sorc 6 to go Celestial Warlock and took Eldritch Blast for multi-attacks like the rest of the group as well as Hellish Rebuke for in case I get damaged again that badly as well as Cure Wounds as we tend to take a lot of damage when hit. I also swapped my Eldritch Adept's Eldritch Evocation to Agonizing Blast for extra damage as I can now wear armor.

[McSkrag]

^This.

I have to reread the rules, but this may make Fog Cloud a discount 'Darkness+Devil Sight' combo. Darkvision wouldnt help either.

Oh that's great idea. I hadn't thought of it that way.