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Thread: Gish help
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2020-11-25, 10:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- Location
- LaVergne, TN
- Gender
Gish help
Alright, moving on to my Demon Bloodline(UA) Aasimar. I'm retooling him into a Duskblade/Sorcerer. Need help with build. GM uses Multiclass XP penalties. How many levels of each should I take? Should I just eat the 20% penalty? Need to get into Spellsword, Eldritch Knight, and Abjurant Champion. Scores are 14/14/15/17/15/18. Spending two feats to get Tressym familiar. Looking at it, probably won't get 9th level spells if I get a level of Eldritch Knight.
Last edited by ChaosStar; 2020-11-25 at 11:07 PM.
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2020-11-25, 11:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: Gish help
If you're using Duskblade, you're in it for Arcane Channeling, which takes three levels to get. After that, you only need two levels of sorcerer to qualify for Spellsword. By lucky chance, that also avoids any multiclassing penalty. So your build is duskblade 3/sorcerer 2/spellsword 1/abjurant champion 5/eldritch knight 9, although I would use Sacred Exorcist instead of Eldritch Knight. Enough base attack to hit +16, more casting. A few more class features, too, which can be nice.
Spoiler: Collectible nice thingsMy incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).
Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.
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2020-11-25, 11:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- Location
- LaVergne, TN
- Gender
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2020-11-25, 11:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
Re: Gish help
Duskblade is a bad choice to combine with Sorcerer. With multiclass xp penalties, making a gish is going to be difficult to pull off if you don't use your race's favored class.
Don't use Eldritch Knight with a Sorcerer. If your DM is enough of a rules stickler to use multiclassing xp penalties, they're likely going to use the RAW spellcasting progression of EK. That means it doesn't grant more spells known, it also doesn't advance your spells known progression. So if you stop taking EK and get levels in a class with full Sorcerer spellcasting progression, you'll resume learning new spells known as if you didn't even have the EK levels at all. It permanently delays your knowledge of higher level spells. If you want a class like EK, use Knight Phantom instead.
My advice is to rearrange your stats, focus on just Int or just Cha plus physical stats, and use a spellcasting class that matches whichever you focus on. Aasimar get Paladin as a favored class, which includes the Tyranny, Freedom, and Slaughter variants. A good aligned Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8 is the gold standard Sorcerer gish build. That gets 9th level spells and a +16 BAB at 20th level, it gets Abjurant Champion as early as possible, it has great Cha synergy with Divine Grace, and with Arcane Preparation or a custom Runestaff you can use (Greater) Luminous Armor which benefits from Abjurant Champion's AC enhancement. You need to be good aligned for Sacred Exorcist and Luminous Armor, so you may as well use Paladin and be a more powerful character with Cha synergy.
If you can use the Half-Humans and Humanlike Races variant in the sidebar on Races of Destiny p150, go something like Human Paragon 1/ Fighter 1/ Sorcerer 2/ Human Paragon 2/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8. That also gets 9th level spells and a +16 BAB at 20th level, it also requires a good alignment for Sacred Exorcist, but not as extreme as Paladin.
Bloodline levels aren't good for any character ever, and bloodlines themselves aren't worth the loss of levels. If you were making a gestalt character it could be useful. If your DM rules that Bloodline levels don't increase ECL (which RAW they technically don't), you can basically gain them for free in which case everyone should get all the bloodlines. You don't necessarily need game mechanics to represent the flavor, but if you insist then there's better ways to go about it. The Fiendish Bloodline feat in Dragon Compendium is more useful than any bloodline levels. Gradually gaining the Half-Fiend template at 3rd, 6th, 9th, and 12th level and buying off each level of level-adjustment as you gain them is a better choice as you'll be a lower ECL than the party, gain more xp per encounter, and eventually catch back up. On that note, use the Savage Progression Aasimar and never spend a level on the +1 LA as you're not required to finish taking those template classes.
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2020-11-25, 11:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- Location
- LaVergne, TN
- Gender
Re: Gish help
1. Can't take Paladin, I'm CN.
2. DM rules that Bloodline levels don't count against ECL, but spends XP.
3. DM isn't an idiot, just a stickler for XP penalties, so he reads Eldritch knight correctly.
4. I despise the Savage Species monster classes and will never use them.
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2020-11-26, 03:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Gish help
The sorcerer is just unneeded ballast. Imho the sole spell that a Duskbalde really wants is Shivering Touch. And for that a 2 lvl dip into Wyrm Wizard (or Recaster if you can play a Changeling) is enough to get it on your Duskblade spell-list.
I did a Shivering Touch optimized build is you should be interested. I would recommend to get somehow Whirlwind, either as feat or as weapon enchantment for 3/day.Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
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2020-11-26, 07:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
- Gender
Re: Gish help
Maybe something like Duskblade 5/Heartfire Fanner 4/Eldritch Knight 1/Sublime Chord 1/Abjurant Champion 5/EK 4?
(This is using the Demon Bloodline to early qualify for HF.)
Requirements are rough.
You need feats: Negotiator, Skill Focus(Perform), Apprentice(Entertainer) by level 5
You need skills: K(arcana) 13 (DB/AC/EK), Listen 13 (HF), Diplomacy 10 (A(E)), Perform 10(A(E)), Profession 6 (cross-class), Spellcraft 6(DB/AC/EK) by level 10
So ~64 skill points through level 10. You pick up 42 through class levels so Int 14 is needed.
Edit: A potentially cleaner solution: Duskblade 5/Heartfire Fanner 4/Sublime Chord 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Spellsinger 4/<any full bab 1> Spells advance as a Sorcerer, BAB+17, requires Int 14 for skills and takes 4 feats. Able to cast any enchantment spell L8- on the Sorcerer, Bard, or Duskblade lists. Eligible for Snowflake Wardance.Last edited by Anthrowhale; 2020-11-26 at 08:59 AM.
Build help: Piercing Immunities | Skillfull full casters | Uptier base classes | Top 10 spells/level
PO: Core Fighter 20 > Pit Fiend | Whale Wrestler | Minimal Mailman | Wizard 1 > Fighter 1 | Team Mundane
TO: ExFighter | Eliminate spell defenses | All spells in no time | Planar Soldiers of Mystra | Best Nuke | Warmage vs. Favored Soul | Death Cults | E6 Circle Magic
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2020-11-26, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- Location
- LaVergne, TN
- Gender
Re: Gish help
I'm more willing to drop Duskblade than Sorcerer. The character was supposed to be a straight Stalwart Battle Sorcerer, but DM says only 1 ACF per class.
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2020-11-26, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
- Gender
Re: Gish help
Build help: Piercing Immunities | Skillfull full casters | Uptier base classes | Top 10 spells/level
PO: Core Fighter 20 > Pit Fiend | Whale Wrestler | Minimal Mailman | Wizard 1 > Fighter 1 | Team Mundane
TO: ExFighter | Eliminate spell defenses | All spells in no time | Planar Soldiers of Mystra | Best Nuke | Warmage vs. Favored Soul | Death Cults | E6 Circle Magic
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2020-11-26, 11:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- Location
- LaVergne, TN
- Gender
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2020-11-26, 04:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: Gish help
There are a number of ways to increase the highest level of spell you can cast. Versatile Spellcaster is one, though it requires a second-level spell, which is most easily available through Heighten Spell. Eldritch Corruption is another one. That's a lot more evil, but that could be appropriate.
Granted, I agree with Biffoniacus and Gruftzwerg that duskblade/sorcerer is not a happy entry, especially with multiclassing XP penalties, but if you want to do it anyway, that's the earliest way to do it. The alternative is something like duskblade 3/sorcerer 4, which is a late entry that gets the same spellcasting and channeling, but loses one point of base attack, still hitting +17 at level 20.Spoiler: Collectible nice thingsMy incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).
Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.