Are all Kobolds red?

[werescythe]

So this is something my brother mentioned that kind of bothers me, which is that all Kobolds (with a few small exceptions) are all red. Now personally I don't feel like it should be this way, instead I believe that Kobolds should be kind of like Dragonborn where they can come in different color varieties.

A part of me wants to play a Kobold (granted I might go custom linage to avoid the sunlight sensitivity) but I don't want to be red.

So I wanted to ask is there a reason (perhaps in DnD lore) why most Kobolds are red? Or is it okay to have them come in different colors?

[Civis Mundi]

1) D&D is a game you can set in a fantasy world of your own design. If you want kobolds not to be red, they don’t have to be red.

2) Even in the default setting, not all Kobolds are red. As you mentioned, being related to chromatic dragons, they can be any variety of colors. Volo’s Guide even provides tables to randomly generate scale color and pattern.

[Amdy_vill]

so two things

1. in lore kobolds aren't "red" they're described as earth colors like brown, tan, and sometimes an earthy brown red.

2. in lore dragon born are the same. coming in earthy colors and sometimes dark colors like black. dragonborns in lore do not come in colors like blue nor does their color correspond with their breath weapon.

[werescythe]

2) Even in the default setting, not all Kobolds are red. As you mentioned, being related to chromatic dragons, they can be any variety of colors. Volo’s Guide even provides tables to randomly generate scale color and pattern.

I actually didn't know about that table, I will have to show that to him. Thank you very much.

Now I just need to figure out what would be a good feat for a kobold that has grown on the streets (custom linage from Tasha's). I was thinking Skulker, however I'm not sure that it would be that much good for a Barbarian.

[Caelic]

"They're all red when I get through with 'em." --Nebbik Koboldsbane, Gnome barbarian

[Civis Mundi]

I actually didn't know about that table, I will have to show that to him. Thank you very much.

Now I just need to figure out what would be a good feat for a kobold that has grown on the streets (custom linage from Tasha's). I was thinking Skulker, however I'm not sure that it would be that much good for a Barbarian.

You're very welcome! I did some sleuthing and I figured some proof would be helpful to point to.

I'm also unsure of how useful Skulker would be for you.

Alert is always nice to have. Plus, if you go before the baddies, you can Rage and get on in there before they get an attack off on you or your friends. I'm a huge fan of Mobile. You might also do something like pick up Resilient (DEX) or (WIS). Depending on your weapon of choice, one of the new weapon feats from Tasha's (Crusher/Piercer/Slasher) could be a good fit that helps increase an ability score as well. And there's always Tough -- it ain't flashy, but it's great for being a big 'ol sack of hitpoints.

[Witty Username]

So this is something my brother mentioned that kind of bothers me, which is that all Kobolds (with a few small exceptions) are all red. Now personally I don't feel like it should be this way, instead I believe that Kobolds should be kind of like Dragonborn where they can come in different color varieties.

A part of me wants to play a Kobold (granted I might go custom linage to avoid the sunlight sensitivity) but I don't want to be red.

So I wanted to ask is there a reason (perhaps in DnD lore) why most Kobolds are red? Or is it okay to have them come in different colors?

That is just a 5e art convention, 3.5 most kobold art was brown, 4th looks like it had green kobolds. Note, kobolds are descended from true dragons not just chromatic dragons so they can be gold, bronze, silver, etc. To believe otherwise is gnome propaganda. Be the color you want to see in the world.

[Luccan]

Kobolds can be a variety of colors, as others have said. As a kid the art in various 3rd edition books and games made me think of them all as brown or silver-grey, so I suspect the artists just like to draw them red this edition.

so two things

1. in lore kobolds aren't "red" they're described as earth colors like brown, tan, and sometimes an earthy brown red.

2. in lore dragon born are the same. coming in earthy colors and sometimes dark colors like black. dragonborns in lore do not come in colors like blue nor does their color correspond with their breath weapon.

Dragonborn look very much like dragons standing erect in humanoid form, though they lack wings or a tail. The first dragonborn had scales of vibrant hues matching the colors of their dragon kin, but generations of interbreeding have created a more uniform appearance. Their small, fine scales are usually brass or bronze in color, sometimes ranging to scarlet, rust, gold, or copper-green. They are tall and strongly built, often standing close to 6½ feet tall and weighing 300 pounds or more. Their hands and feet are strong, talonlike claws with three fingers and a thumb on each hand.

The blood of a particular type of dragon runs very strong through some dragonborn clans. These dragonborn often boast scales that more closely match those of their dragon ancestor—bright red, green, blue, or white, lustrous black, or gleaming metallic gold, silver, brass, copper, or bronze.

Emphasis mine

[Thunderous Mojo]

[Sorinth]

It's not official lore but I tend to have kobolds be brownish by default, with some slight colourations of red/green/blue/black. However when a kobold is born if there is a chromatic dragon nearby they take on that dragons colour.

So when you see kobolds of a certain colour you get an idea that there might be a corresponding dragon in the area.

Also when such children are born to a tribe that isn't already serving a dragon the tribe will seek out the dragon to become it's servants. They will also want to gift the dragon treasure when they find it so they become hyper aggressive and increase the raiding/pillaging to build up their treasure.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Actually, almost all of the kobolds (that anyone knows about in Noefra) are greenish, with some black bits. That's because they're all (all ~200 of them) descended from those who were created 50 years ago by fusing soul fragments from a green dragon (and small amounts from a black before he escaped) into a group of cloned gnomes during the forced growth process. But like true dragons, color isn't entirely hereditary. So the youngest generation is starting to see some differentiation.

And dragonborn are all different colors. And have tails (of varying lengths and sizes). That was one of the earliest things I changed. Because all my players expected them to, so they must have had them.

/homebrew

[Sigreid]

I have played two kobolds in different campaigns where the DMs let me play a kobold with a silver glint.

[werescythe]

Alert is always nice to have. Plus, if you go before the baddies, you can Rage and get on in there before they get an attack off on you or your friends.

Yeah, I forgot about Alert, that feat makes a lot of sense.

[Mastikator]

We got a blue kobold in our group. I think when you're friend is DMing he can decide they're all the same color in his game.

[Kane0]

Well Deekin was grey/blue and hung around grey/green fellows in his clan, before he grew the red dragon wings.

[Porcupinata]

We got a blue kobold in our group. I think when you're friend is DMing he can decide they're all the same color in his game.

My current PC is a bright blue kobold.

Admittedly he's a Wild Mage Sorcerer, so he got turned that colour by a magic surge, but he's adamant that this is a sign from the gods that he is going to grow up to be a blue dragon and he resists any attempt to remove the colour.

[Monster Manuel]

My current PC is a bright blue kobold.

Admittedly he's a Wild Mage Sorcerer, so he got turned that colour by a magic surge, but he's adamant that this is a sign from the gods that he is going to grow up to be a blue dragon and he resists any attempt to remove the colour.

Not to derail the thread topic, but I love this...

[Garfunion]

I like these Kobolds https://images.app.goo.gl/YT2Tmp99U67gzjsb9
It’s me Kobolds were once rats that fed off the refuge and waste within a Dragon’s den.

[BBQ Pork]

I prefer that they develop the color of the dragon that they serve, once they find one.

[SpikeFightwicky]

so two things
[snip]
2. in lore dragon born are the same. coming in earthy colors and sometimes dark colors like black. dragonborns in lore do not come in colors like blue nor does their color correspond with their breath weapon.

Pg. 97 of Tasha's has a blue scaled dragonborn that even has the telltale blue dragon forehead horn I'm guessing the lore changed.

[Luccan]

Pg. 97 of Tasha's has a blue scaled dragonborn that even has the telltale blue dragon forehead horn I'm guessing the lore changed.

I posted a quote from the PHB upthread. This may have been the case in 4e, but it hasn't been the case in 5e since probably its release. Still, most are brown, so it's not a big thing.

I believe in 3.5 they were all silvery, which makes sense since they were transformed Bahamut devotees not a naturally producing race, but they have changed in most ways since.

[TigerT20]

Pg. 97 of Tasha's has a blue scaled dragonborn that even has the telltale blue dragon forehead horn I'm guessing the lore changed.

There's a disconnect between the content of the books and their art. Hence gnomes only having tan or brown skin, yet the image directly above that description being neither tan nor brown.

[SpikeFightwicky]

I posted a quote from the PHB upthread. This may have been the case in 4e, but it hasn't been the case in 5e since probably its release. Still, most are brown, so it's not a big thing.

I believe in 3.5 they were all silvery, which makes sense since they were transformed Bahamut devotees not a naturally producing race, but they have changed in most ways since.

There's a disconnect between the content of the books and their art. Hence gnomes only having tan or brown skin, yet the image directly above that description being neither tan nor brown.

Ah, I wasn't sure where that quote was from. If it's from the PHB, then that's a head slap. Honestly, it really annoys me when their art department isn't talking to their design department (and vice versa).

[mormon_soldier]

"They're all red when I get through with 'em." --Nebbik Koboldsbane, Gnome barbarian

*slides glasses up* actually since their hemoglobin is formed from copper and not iron, their blood oxidizes green, not red. They're all green when you get through with them. But since you swing your right handed axe primarily at their left sides, mostly they're all right.

*leaves to a crowd of booing and hisses*

[Amdy_vill]

Pg. 97 of Tasha's has a blue scaled dragonborn that even has the telltale blue dragon forehead horn I'm guessing the lore changed.

and there's a bright red one in BG with a tail and wings despite the PHB directly saying they don't have them. there has been a big disconnect in art with Dragonborn. you can also do whatever you want in your own game. but in lore Dragonborn are colors like dirty brass, brown, tan, dirty copper, earthy reds, and blacks.

Dragonborns get the worst of it. but almost every race in dnd has art like this. Normal Goblins(Not any of the odd subraces) in lore are tan with black hair. they have been described like that since 1e, despite this, they have quite a bit of art where they are green. you shouldn't expect a pool of mostly random artiest to know things like this.

there is a lot of Vecna art with the wrong hand and eye cut off. if artiest are consistently getting major design portions wrong about characters can you really expect art to be consitance.

Ah, I wasn't sure where that quote was from. If it's from the PHB, then that's a head slap. Honestly, it really annoys me when their art department isn't talking to their design department (and vice versa).

I don't think you really have an art department, at least in the way your thinking. most of their works seem to be freelance, they even have adds for it. you really can expect an artist culled from nowhere to make art the is lore correct when most of them are getting basic prompts. I mean look at how varied Drizzt art is or how Loth is constantly depicted as a Drider in art despite that pretty much-being heresy to the Drow

[SpikeFightwicky]

and there's a bright red one in BG with a tail and wings despite the PHB directly saying they don't have them. there has been a big disconnect in art with Dragonborn. you can also do whatever you want in your own game. but in lore Dragonborn are colors like dirty brass, brown, tan, dirty copper, earthy reds, and blacks.

Dragonborns get the worst of it. but almost every race in dnd has art like this. Normal Goblins(Not any of the odd subraces) in lore are tan with black hair. they have been described like that since 1e, despite this, they have quite a bit of art where they are green. you shouldn't expect a pool of mostly random artiest to know things like this.

there is a lot of Vecna art with the wrong hand and eye cut off. if artiest are consistently getting major design portions wrong about characters can you really expect art to be consitance.



I don't think you really have an art department, at least in the way your thinking. most of their works seem to be freelance, they even have adds for it. you really can expect an artist culled from nowhere to make art the is lore correct when most of them are getting basic prompts. I mean look at how varied Drizzt art is or how Loth is constantly depicted as a Drider in art despite that pretty much-being heresy to the Drow

I'll be honest, I wasn't really aware of how WotC manage the art. Considering that in MtG they have do the same, it actually makes sense that they would do that for D&D. Also, I usually don't pay that much attention to the art, but yeah it seems like Dragonborn are just the tip of the iceberg. FWIW, I didn't recall the Dragonborn lore until Lucan mentioned it was in the PHB and I looked it up again. I find the art in Tasha's is all over the place, style-wise. What really threw me off was the cafe-style tavern on pg. 188. I find it looks more like a ren-fair depiction.

That being said, I fully agree with your assessment, having looked up more art. I also agree that anyone can do whatever depictions they want in their game, though it's always nice to have a firm base where art matches lore.

[Amdy_vill]

I'll be honest, I wasn't really aware of how WotC manage the art. Considering that in MtG they have do the same, it actually makes sense that they would do that for D&D. Also, I usually don't pay that much attention to the art, but yeah it seems like Dragonborn are just the tip of the iceberg. FWIW, I didn't recall the Dragonborn lore until Lucan mentioned it was in the PHB and I looked it up again. I find the art in Tasha's is all over the place, style-wise. What really threw me off was the cafe-style tavern on pg. 188. I find it looks more like a ren-fair depiction.

That being said, I fully agree with your assessment, having looked up more art. I also agree that anyone can do whatever depictions they want in their game, though it's always nice to have a firm base where art matches lore.

fun note, while most people look at Forgotten Realms and Grey Hawk as high fantasy their lore heavily paints them as a true fantasy(this is amplified because of things like spelljammer.) they are supposed to look more industrial revolution with hints of medieval and fantasy. when you look at it like that the Cafe makes more sense. I find Waterdeep dragon heist has art the matches the descriptions of the world better than most others. but it still has problems. like races not being properly depicted and objects, the look industrial produced. "molded plastic boby hats" apparently they exist. there is a great web dm ep that talks about how FR and GH are more industrial and modern.

Thier are also some funny things like Xanahars coloring not being consistent at all in 5e. is he grey, a dark blue, or ****ing Blue Rasberry. your choice.

[SpikeFightwicky]

fun note, while most people look at Forgotten Realms and Grey Hawk as high fantasy their lore heavily paints them as a true fantasy(this is amplified because of things like spelljammer.) they are supposed to look more industrial revolution with hints of medieval and fantasy. when you look at it like that the Cafe makes more sense. I find Waterdeep dragon heist has art the matches the descriptions of the world better than most others. but it still has problems. like races not being properly depicted and objects, the look industrial produced. "molded plastic boby hats" apparently they exist. there is a great web dm ep that talks about how FR and GH are more industrial and modern.

Thier are also some funny things like Xanahars coloring not being consistent at all in 5e. is he grey, a dark blue, or ****ing Blue Rasberry. your choice.

Ok so that actually makes more sense for the lore of FR (I don't know too much about GH since 2nd ed, though). Just looking at Waterdeep's population, it is HUGE for a typical high fantasy settings. Cities just weren't that big back then, I think. Though the more industrial cultures got, the bigger their cities (of course, D&D worlds are offset by having magical assistance). So FR having a massive city like Waterdeep makes perfect sense. London didn't even reach that population until the 1600s. That also makes firearms well within the technology level as well. I usually thought of FR and GH as Middle Earth level technology. I'm now going to go watch some Web DM!

Lol for Xanathar, maybe his inconsistent art depicts disguises?

[Yakmala]

Ok so that actually makes more sense for the lore of FR (I don't know too much about GH since 2nd ed, though). Just looking at Waterdeep's population, it is HUGE for a typical high fantasy settings. Cities just weren't that big back then, I think. Though the more industrial cultures got, the bigger their cities (of course, D&D worlds are offset by having magical assistance). So FR having a massive city like Waterdeep makes perfect sense. London didn't even reach that population until the 1600s. That also makes firearms well within the technology level as well. I usually thought of FR and GH as Middle Earth level technology. I'm now going to go watch some Web DM!

Lol for Xanathar, maybe his inconsistent art depicts disguises?

The largest pre-Columbian city in North America that we know of was Cahokia. At its peak around 1100 AD, it had 20,000 people; larger than London at the time. But still nowhere near Waterdeep's stated population of around 130,000.

[Amdy_vill]

The largest pre-Columbian city in North America that we know of was Cahokia. At its peak around 1100 AD, it had 20,000 people; larger than London at the time. But still nowhere near Waterdeep's stated population of around 130,000.

there are a few big notes here,

1. pre-Columbian city populations are more accurate given that they are reconstructions. my understanding is that the census is still out but London was likely much larger and the number we have records of counted the desirable in the city. the people how would have been counted, so excluding farmers on the out skirts and such. this would likely place London much closer to 130,000

2. we still have a problem. Waterdeep takes a similar approach to count population but even more extreme. its likely Waterdeep real population is 500,000- 1,000,000

3. this makes a lot more sense when you take into consideration magic upgraded crops, multi-dimensional shipping lines(the massive amounts of spelljammers said to go through on the daily), and the relatively advanced production we see in dnd. Lore implies a semi-modern meat industry with the prevalence of processed meats in waterdaving meals and even as far out as chult.

Ok so that actually makes more sense for the lore of FR (I don't know too much about GH since 2nd ed, though). Just looking at Waterdeep's population, it is HUGE for a typical high fantasy settings. Cities just weren't that big back then, I think.

Cities kinda were that big, at least in the way we think of cities now. back then the major farmland the supplied a city wasn't often counted as part. you can see this in the waterdeep books where they call out everything outside the wall as not being in the city. they often tended to not count certain people, like the poor, or anyone who wasn't born in the city. it was more a you have to prove you're a citizen to get counted thing. ifs kinda its own field of study.