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2020-11-26, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
so wizards have uncanny forethought. that jacks up the amount of distilled joys they can cast per day.
sorcerers... all they got is twin spell. not good.
the only solution i thought of is get it as an sla to make it a standard action but its not easy.
archmage has too much a feat tax, and spell slot tax, and comes online super late in the game. like level 20 late.
spellstitched undead has its share of problems too. mainly its really hard to become an undead by yourself, and its really hard to get a high wisdom score.
innate spell is achieved at not-low epic. you need to grab improved spell capacity twice, and then innate spell, which means you need to be level 27 before you can get distilled joy as a sla. i consider low epic to be level 24 at most.
i also thought of energy transformation field but 250xp cost, trying to make a scroll and achieve 250xp cost with ambrosia takes way too long. so thats a no go either.
so is there anything else? ive been trying to build a sorcerer instead of a wizard, and this is like the last obstacle in my way.
regarding sla casting time, the d20srd is wrong. so dont use it. use rule compendium which directly says
1. all slas are a standard action unless otherwise noted.
2. if the spell the sla replicates has a casting time shorter than standard action, then it takes that action to cast instead.
the second point shows that the original casting time of the spell its replicating is not "otherwise noted", and there are a plethora of monsters using slas as a standard action in combat regardless of their original casting time. mirror mephit for example uses simulacrum on a pc in a sample encounter as a standard action instead of a 12 hour casting time.Last edited by newguydude1; 2020-11-26 at 01:22 PM.
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2020-11-26, 01:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
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Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
As with so many other tricks, this is made easy with proper utilization of the acorn of far travel spell.
Add that and (un)hallow to your spells known or use some spell-trigger items and you should be good to go.Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2020-11-26 at 01:23 PM.
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
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2020-11-27, 01:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
I believe there is a metamagic called rapid spell that can lower down the casting time of that spell to an hour.
Combine that with twinned and repeating spell and you can get 72 of the substance in a day before epic levels.Last edited by noob; 2020-11-27 at 01:27 AM.
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2020-11-27, 05:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
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2020-11-27, 05:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2016
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
You could just buy/craft (eternal) wands to solve your problem.
May I ask for what purpose you want the ambrosia? If it is for crafting I would maybe go for other options.Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
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2020-11-27, 05:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
i try to make 100% of my characters use 0 wealth. for fun, for challenge, and to "balance" my otherwise super high powered character. trying to make my shtick work with sorcerer instead of wizard is also another way of optimizing downward.
ambrosia is to create scrolls of simulacrum free. cooperative crafting with mirror mephit gets rid of simulacrums cost but i still need 280-ish xp for a scroll of cl40 simulacrum.
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2020-11-27, 06:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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2020-11-27, 06:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
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2020-11-27, 06:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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2020-11-27, 07:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
no.
mirror mephit simulacrum is cl 8.
suffer the flesh +4
adept spirit +1
consumptive field +4
greater consumptive field +4
=cl21 total. so my mirror mephit can create 21hd creatures at level 16 after 4 levels of wyrm wizard. unfortunately there is nothing that boosts this further, not even epic spells, so i got no epic level strategy.
at level 16 on my sorcerer, same buffts
cl 16 + 4 + 1 + 8 + 8 = cl37
much, much higher than my mirror mephit.
if you know of a way to boost my mirror mephits cl even higher than 21 then i may not need ambrosia anymore.
edit: i dont like ice assassin because it cant be healed.Last edited by newguydude1; 2020-11-27 at 07:12 AM.
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2020-11-27, 08:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2016
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
Another option is, if you character is evil (?), you can make "Sacrifices" to earn Dark Craft XP. All you need to do is a Religion DC 20+ roll and you earn 5 times the DC as Dark Craft XP. That are 100 Dark Craft XP for a (minimum) DC 20 roll. You can do a sacrifice each day, so even without extreme Knowledge Religion boost, you could get the XP within ~ 3days. Or if you manage a DC 56 roll, you would get the entire 280xp in a single go. Remember that others may use "Aid another" for a stacking untyped +2 bonus on your skillroll. Use your similacrum/ice assassin army to aid your Knowledge Religion roll.
That being said, if you like character builds who focus on this kind of things, have a look at my craftlock incarnation of Orochimaru (see signature). He abuses "Sacrifices" to the max with his Ice Assassin/Symbiont Army (aka as Curse Marks).Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
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2020-11-27, 08:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
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2020-11-27, 09:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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- Perth, West Australia
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Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
Buy or get a Runecaster to craft two permanent runes: one of Elation, one of Distilled Joy. Costs shouldn't be that great since they're both low-level(ish) spells. Either ask people to touch the Elation rune and then the Distilled Joy rune, or double the cost to set them up as 'trigger when read or passed' and just wander around the nearest town. Elation instills great joy in the target, Distilled Joy pulls that out and makes ambrosia out of it. The runes remove the 1 day casting time for Distilled Joy and cut it down to a standard action. Assuming you can find someone new to plink the spells at every minute, that's about 720 XP for 6 hours of doing Pharrell Williams to people.
Last edited by Saintheart; 2020-11-27 at 09:06 AM.
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2020-11-27, 09:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
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Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2020-11-27 at 09:12 AM.
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
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2020-11-27, 09:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
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2020-11-27, 10:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
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Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2020-11-27 at 10:11 AM.
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
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2020-11-27, 10:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
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2020-11-27, 11:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
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Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
Too bad you're not playing a psion or a StP erudite. Linked Power could do it PDQ.
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
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2020-11-28, 04:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
no one mentioned shadow miracles. shame on all of you.
edit: not that i can use it.Last edited by newguydude1; 2020-11-28 at 04:24 PM.
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2020-11-28, 04:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
If you are doing shadow miracles the amount of cheese is high enough to turn the game in some sort of full cheese cheese with cheese.
(cast all those spell at any moment: the polyvalence and the fact you are probably using level 1 spell slots to do that is just silly)Last edited by noob; 2020-11-28 at 04:34 PM.
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2020-11-28, 05:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
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2020-11-28, 05:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
I believe you had only to take a feat and have 19 wisdom(just get some wisdom boosts).
Then since you need a tenth level spell and to be a shadowcraft gnome or something to cast shadow miracle you need to start opening up metamagic sheanighans at which point you can start to make all your level 1 silent images be tenth level spell and cast shadow miracle all day.
And regular miracles are borderline cheese if you spam them all day because your god would probably end up being angry at you after the tenth miracle you cast in a single day.(and I consider miracle is one of the strongest dnd spells and a close second with spells like gate, shapechange and the like)Last edited by noob; 2020-11-28 at 05:54 PM.
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2020-11-28, 06:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
How about the Player's Guide to Faerun version of the Innate Spell feat? It's non-epic, and uses a spell slot of only the spell's normal level, so you can get it for Distilled Joy by 6th level. But it only lets you use the spell-like ability 3/day, not at will.
My Perpetually-Unfinished Homebrew: Tier-3 Class Suite, Homestuck Races for Pathfinder, Homestuck Races for 5e, Psionic Class Redux
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2020-11-28, 06:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
how does that work? can you pick and choose which 3.5 version of the feat your allowed to use?
shadow miracle doesnt use gods just like shadow summon doesnt use real creatures.
your describing incantatrix metamagic reducing cheese inline with mailman. shadow miracle isnt broken, metamagic reduction stacking is.
and miracle isnt even close to "strongest spells". a no homebrew miracle (as in no greater effects unless somewhere raw says so) is nowhere near gate. even savage species race changing stuff calls wish out only, no miracle. by raw you cant use miracle to change your race.
free miracle is abusable yeah, but its much less abusable than free wishes via dweomerkeeper. and 100% of dweomerkeepers are expected to get wish so thats normal op of a use-as-is prc.
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2020-11-28, 06:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
I talked about regular miracle when I told about gods being angered.
Also it is not incantatrixe it is rather things like taking arcane thesis on silent image and the varied stuff like that which are barely extra steps over what is needed to reach tenth level spells(just a few more feats).
Also can you tell me a spell stronger than miracle that is not gate, wish, ice assasin, shapechange and disjunction.(the effects of time stop can be obtained with enough celerities from miracles) I told it was second to the classics not in first place.
Free wish is considered infinite TO: just wish for a hat of infinite all the spells and all the stuff you ever want so comparing things with free wish is just proving it is extreme cheese.
Just because the cheese made of cheese of shadow miracle is the thousandth candidate in terms of cheesiness does not means it would be handleable by a gm who said "please do not use multiple simulacrum"
(yes you can make infinite armies, shapechange into silly things to get free wishes, gate in a monster that gates in a monster and so on, gain omnipotence and unlimited everything in hundreds of ways going from bob archmage spam to alter shape abuse or swarm hivemind abuses(and many others) that are all way more cheesy and do things like being a planar sheepherd of the far realms(which prompts the gm to say "why" then roll a sanity check) but it does not makes shadow miracle be less absurd amounts of cheese)Last edited by noob; 2020-11-28 at 06:49 PM.
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2020-11-28, 07:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
how is it cheese when throughout all of d&d free wishes are mentioned multiple times. ur priest says a player can steal a pit fiends wish. savage species says a creature with wish as a sla is a mere +3 la. wish loops is cheese.
celerity line of spells. cant use with miracle cause of casting time.
planar binding line of spells. miracle cant replicate greater planar binding.
mindrape
polymorph any object
sanctify the wicked if your a good guy cause its mindrape except for good alignment characters
true resurrection because if you find a way around the material cost its infinite free respawn
miracle is versatile but it has no power. i never ever i mean ever encounter it in all of my optimizing shenanigan stuff. and right now its mentioned in this thread for sorcerer, not wizard.
oh and arcane disciple to add miracle to your spell list is the cheese. cause all other methods like recaster and wyrm wizard doesnt let you get it that early.Last edited by newguydude1; 2020-11-28 at 07:05 PM.
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2020-11-28, 07:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
Just because the wotc staff did not realise how broken things were does not means they are less broken.
Ur priest is usually considered cheese.
If they did attribute the right LA to things then fighters would get negative LA.
Free wish is not just broken if you do a loop you can also directly give yourself an infinitely powerful magical item directly with the magical item creation clause since you do not pay the cost(and it is a direct straightforward way of using wish: The number of adventurers that would not wish for a magical item is low).
You can use twinned miracle for celerity if you are willing to use a higher level slot.
Planar ally can be abused comparably to planar binding if you do it properly.
Mindrape provides stuff that can be simulated with enough hypnosis therapy(change behaviour) and modify memory(edit the memories) and simulacrum(for the copied memory).
Sanctify the wicked is unneeded when you can make a redeemery(just use skill checks and reliably trap them) or hypnosis therapy.
Polymorph any object is a cleric spell if you have a domain with it so you can miracle duplicate it.
True resurrection is actually a great spell I forgot that also does not enter the cheese category. (did your sorcerer take final strike or some other way to guarantee their annihilation on death? else if your body exists but that you do not have it close you can not be true resurrected which is an obscure detail people often forgets)Last edited by noob; 2020-11-28 at 07:37 PM.
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2020-11-28, 07:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
how does that get you immediate casting time
no its not.
it has xp cost per use
you need to pay the guy
and most importantly, the dm chooses the monster. 100% of the time.
and by raw if you follow a deity your restricted to absolute crap monsters only.
there is absolutely no way planar ally comes anywhere close to planar binding.
no, modify memory is permanent duration. dispellable. mindrape is instantaneous. you cannot even hope to compare a permanent duration with an instantaneous one.
mindrape without the mind-affecting tag can be replicated by... hypnosis therapy?
no its not. domain spells =/= cleric spells. theyre domain spells. you use domain spell slots. theyre part of a domain spell list not cleric.Last edited by newguydude1; 2020-11-28 at 07:46 PM.
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2020-11-28, 07:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
written in miracle
Duplicate any cleric spell of 8th level or lower (including spells to which you have access because of your domains).
If you capture someone you can then remove their immunity to mind affecting through dispelling and destroying all their stuff that gives it, making them lose their levels(so that they lose class features granting it) and polymorphing them(so that they lose things coming from their specie or type that makes them immune).
Once you did you can do hypnosis therapy.
(If they have the shape-changer sub-type you also need to prevent them from taking standard actions if they are normally immune unless their base type is undead in which case there is a spell that can specifically make them vulnerable)Last edited by noob; 2020-11-28 at 07:53 PM.
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2020-11-28, 10:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: anyway for a sorcerer to increase ambrosia production without setting up a farm?
i got it!!!!!!!!!!
planetar simualcrum.
or some other divine caster simulacrum. with lots of miracle castings!!!!
yes! wow! finally!
this thread shows how a true piece of art gets created. go down twenty blind alleys and one of the blind alleys blocks up into a path to the future!!!
solar is a 20th level cleric, but i dont want to use him unless i absolutely have to because, you know, hes a free wish guy.Last edited by newguydude1; 2020-11-28 at 10:30 PM.