OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

[KorvinStarmast]

your sig

Pretty sure Sam K never read Sun Tzu.

[Drake Halfmoon]

Cool spell,

But why didn't V use it when they went into the caves against the vampires? Could have been useful.

[ebarde]

Serini "I'll never train another party. I came to this gate to die. It's time for the order to end"

We meet her and she became a jaded hermit lol

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Cool spell,

But why didn't V use it when they went into the caves against the vampires? Could have been useful.

Because they didn't have it/they didn't think of it/they didn't have a good moment to cast it/other.

GW

[Rogar Demonblud]

Yeah, "Not Memorized" is always a good reason for a wizard not busting out a spell with niche usage.

[One Skunk Todd]

...the Holiday Ornament is up...

Nod, get treat.

[One Skunk Todd]

If the trap/portal reverts after 20 seconds, is that going to leave half a neatly sliced skull, right on the trap line and giving the game up to TE?

[Riftwolf]

While I'm can see it being something like thyme or rosemary or some indigenous herb, I think a strong pepper would be a bit of a giveaway. Especially if it is only in front of one door. "I don't smell any dwarves, just some strong spices in front of a single door that is in no way suspicious."

I'm guessing you've never snorted a spice before. I once got cinnamon blown up my nose and let me tell you the only tactical information I'd have given afterwards is 'AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA' and for days afterwards I avoided Starbucks.

[Schroeswald]

I think you’re stretching a bit with the Lirian one. The family one does make sense though.

This is from Redcloak’s words in Start of Darkness on the fire:

Spoiler: SoD

Show

It’s not my fault! If the druids didn’t put out the tiny bush fires that are apart of the forest’s natural cycle, there wouldn’t be so much dead growth waiting to burn.

Would’ve cited it earlier but my copy of SoD wasn’t on me.

I like this. But, I'd argue family was what got Girard's group killed---their insistence on only trusting family, and forcibly kidnapping children that resulted from their sexual relationships. Everyone was related by blood, which meant that everyone would die from Familicide. Relax that insistence even a little, and there'd be survivors to help defend the Gate.

Yeah, that is the easier one, but I was specifically showing how the destructions matched up, not just them being taken.

However Grey Wolf does make a good point (I‘D be quoting him but I forgot and I’m too lazy to add it back) I would disagree on the front about the family relation not mattering, Girard thought he could only trust family, and Tarquin and Nale are another way to show trusting just your family is a bad idea, blood doesn’t define everything (and I highly doubt either of them would be coming after the gate if not for Elan). However, the better point is that Xykon was the core reason. I forgot that he was more focused on Xykon than Tarquin and Nale. I’d say that the family bit does still sort of play a role, the linear guild is still a factor, but yeah it’s weak (which is definitely related to the fact that this bit was the only thing I personally came up with).
I could try to argue that V being taken out has something to do with their family, but both us and V know it didn’t really, and even then the connection is just “has something to do with family”. Any connection with Darth V and stuff already applies to familicide taking out the defenses anyway.

[Yirggzmb]

Yeah, "Not Memorized" is always a good reason for a wizard not busting out a spell with niche usage.

In fact, the experience with the vampires could have been excellent reason to make sure it was prepared this time, given they were going to intentionally surprise a lich and high level cleric.

[Petrocorus]

Pretty sure Sam K never read Sun Tzu.

I'm not sure what you mean.
If there is a joke there, i don't get it. And i read the Art of War (albeit a long time ago).

[Paula]

They didn't bother closing the red door they opened first in the previous strip. Where are their manners?

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm not sure what you mean.
If there is a joke there, i don't get it. And i read the Art of War (albeit a long time ago).

It was a comment on that thing you have in your sig as a quote. It's rather at odds with Sun Tzu's observation that the acme of skill is to win the war without fighting, which is the opposite of the sound byte offered from that (rather lame) 3.5e thread.

(Had to write a few papers on Sun Tzu, Clausewitz, Mahan, Corbett, Mao, and Ho half of a life time ago).

[Petrocorus]

It's rather at odds with Sun Tzu's observation that the acme of skill is to win the war without fighting,

This is indeed true.
But would this be true in the context of a 3.5 game?
And i don't mean in the context of a D&D world, but of a D&D game, where the whole point is to adventure and to fight.

Sam K's comment was about what Sun Tzu would say if, instead of writing the Art of War, he was writing the D&D 3.5 Player's Tactical Manual.

which is the opposite of the sound byte offered from that (rather lame) 3.5e thread.

Why lame?
At the time, this kind of issue of party members having a wide gap of power was sadly common, and a lot of DM were asking about it?

(Had to write a few papers on Sun Tzu, Clausewitz, Mahan, Corbett, Mao, and Ho half of a life time ago).

For the navy?

[danielxcutter]

Cool spell,

But why didn't V use it when they went into the caves against the vampires? Could have been useful.

At least one of the spawns got V with an negative level. That means they lost one of their highest spell slots, and since they already used two on Mind Blank it’s not impossible for the slot lost to be the Sunburst one.

[ijuinkun]

I thought we were talking about Telepathic Bond, not Sunburst?

[danielxcutter]

I thought we were talking about Telepathic Bond, not Sunburst?

Sorry, must have gotten confused with the discussion in another thread.

Also, I suppose V didn't think there was any reason to use Telepathic Bond in the Durkula fight. Actually, I don't see how it'd have helped.

[Yirggzmb]

Also, I suppose V didn't think there was any reason to use Telepathic Bond in the Durkula fight. Actually, I don't see how it'd have helped.

I think the idea was that it would have been handy to have when they were surrounded by vampires and trapped in V's forcecage in the halls of Firmament. The vampires were able to counter their plans because they could, you know, hear them making them.

But of course, they had no reason to expect more than just the handful who had escaped from the Godsmoot, so it's not particularly surprising if V just didn't have the spell prepared.

[danielxcutter]

I think the idea was that it would have been handy to have when they were surrounded by vampires and trapped in V's forcecage in the halls of Firmament. The vampires were able to counter their plans because they could, you know, hear them making them.

But of course, they had no reason to expect more than just the handful who had escaped from the Godsmoot, so it's not particularly surprising if V just didn't have the spell prepared.

I don't think it'd have changed that much either, to be honest. I mean maybe the spawn ambush, but that's about it.

[Riftwolf]

How does Telepathic Bond interact with dominated targets? Or is that not talked about?

[danielxcutter]

How does Telepathic Bond interact with dominated targets? Or is that not talked about?

No idea actually, but there's nothing that says it'd help with making the save or anything that'd likely translate into actual game mechanics.

[Goblin_Priest]

That scene has an angel, a devil, a slaad and a modron, and it doesn't really help us.



They are definitely not modrons, and almost certainly not slaads (one of them is larger and quite probably winged).

Ah, yes, early strip weirdness, as far as speech bubbles go.

Though Modrons do come back without speech color, Slaadi, on the other hand, come back with an adequate speech color. And Gray and Death slaadi both have the fly spell-like ability.

[danielxcutter]

Ah, yes, early strip weirdness, as far as speech bubbles go.

Though Modrons do come back without speech color, Slaadi, on the other hand, come back with an adequate speech color. And Gray and Death slaadi both have the fly spell-like ability.

Huh, I wonder why Modrons don't have colored speech bubbles?

[dancrilis]

Huh, I wonder why Modrons don't have colored speech bubbles?

They are fairly black and white beings after all.

Also their speech bubbles are rectangular which is distinct enough.

[Goblin_Priest]

They are fairly black and white beings after all.

Also their speech bubbles are rectangular which is distinct enough.

Good catch.

To counter my own point, though, I have a hard time imagining slaadi using poison darts. And they lack any poison ranged attacks themselves.

This point also applies to dragons, though.

Also, looking at how they are grabbing both the paladins and their weapons, I have a hard time imagining medium sized creatures doing this.

[KorvinStarmast]

For the navy?

JPME. Joint Professional Military Education. Yes. And I had to become quite knowlegeable on land and air warfare during that course of study. Did a staff ride/detailed camaign study of the Vicksburg campaign as a part of that ...

FWIW: I found that thread to be of little to no value - which might be influenced by the fact that I retired from D&D (as it turned out, for over a decade) early in the 3. 5 era. Took the books to a half-priced books store and sold them for a bit of beer money.

Back to this topic (sorry that the digression wasn't about Star Wars ) I finally "grokked" the 'change in floor color' detail from Roy. On the fourth read through of the strip.

As to the two invisible paladin carrying characters: they can fly / levitate. Might be one Big One and one Little One, with the Big One carrying both of the paladins.

[danielxcutter]

Good catch.

To counter my own point, though, I have a hard time imagining slaadi using poison darts. And they lack any poison ranged attacks themselves.

This point also applies to dragons, though.

Also, looking at how they are grabbing both the paladins and their weapons, I have a hard time imagining medium sized creatures doing this.

I have a hard time imagining a creature with only two "hands" holding them like that either, actually, now that I think of it.

[Goblin_Priest]

I have a hard time imagining a creature with only two "hands" holding them like that either, actually, now that I think of it.

Same. Presumably at least large if it's grabbing with hands and feet (and thus sufficiently prehensile feet). Even larger if holding with many sets of hands. That dart doesn't look huge-sized, though.

Unless it's using some form of telekinesis on the weapons.

[danielxcutter]

Same. Presumably at least large if it's grabbing with hands and feet (and thus sufficiently prehensile feet). Even larger if holding with many sets of hands. That dart doesn't look huge-sized, though.

Unless it's using some form of telekinesis on the weapons.

It looks a bit like Green is the poisoner and Orange is the big one.

[Syncrogti]

the difference in floor colours makes it extremely likely that if you manage to bypass this trap you're entering a different pathway than if you trigger the trap.

I totally missed the potential repercussions that floor color change could have. Goodness.