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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Do you have a theory on how Redcloak, a pure Cleric, can somehow use trapfinding, a Rogue-only skill?
    Magic? Specifically, Find Traps, a level 2 cleric spell.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    No, Xykon will blame Red Cloak for him having to
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    That is exactly what I said, is it not?
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Thecommander236 View Post
    I concur. Also, I doubt that the tribe of Bigbears who have been attacking this Dungeon for years, if not decades, or even generations never noticed this trap especially if it flashes light like that at the people who aren't the ones who set it off.
    Or the ones that did noticed it and disarmed it completely (and not temporarily as Haley did) didn't see any effect at all from the disarming. Maybe only the temporary disable has an effect, as a sort of "trap-within-a trap".
    So they thought "meh, we can just ignore it if it makes no difference", didn't think about temporarily disabling it and thus don't see any use in mentioning it any further.
    Last edited by Wannes; 2020-11-27 at 12:05 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven777 View Post
    Disabling the trap puts you into "Serini mode", which might be more tuned to the skillset of a rogue, or at least a balanced party that includes one. That would play into Serini's possible mindset too: wishing for a functional whole party in order to overcome a holistic suite of challenges, rather than how her beloved group ended up fracturing with everyone focusing on their own preference for their dungeon. In Serini's mind, being worthy of reaching the gate might demand a whole cooperating party, not a single kind of skills.
    I really like this theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thales View Post
    I suspect that Haley's overloading the trap may tip Team Evil off, however. The line may be really hard to see (and Team Evil is probably more than 20 seconds behind the Order and therefore the trap will be functioning again by the time they get there), but if Haley leaves the dead rat head there, it'll be clearly visible, and even if she doesn't, there's still the blast mark on the ground around it that marks the line. Redcloak and Oona can definitely put it together with a big clue like that.
    How rigid is the "only rogues can see magical traps" rule? Roy couldn't see the line even when Haley pointed right at it and told him exactly what to look for. Team Evil has far weaker clues, but bonuses and magical enhancements.

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    It's sad to see one of Kandro's family heirlooms being treated so cavalierly.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    if the floor changes color after the trap is activated team evil will for sure be suspicious when they find it.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by deltamire View Post
    In 5E, a wizard's (or anyone with the find familiar spell) familiar can be summoned back to you as an action, and bringing it back when it's been killed takes a first level spell slot and ten minutes - what're the rules for 3.5? How much of a drain of resources would it take for V to re-summon Blackwing? They've done it instantly before, but how would the spell work if they're, say, in a different dimension?
    In 3.5 if familiar dies you cannot gain a new one for a year and a day (and also lose some exp). You can raise\resurrect\true resurrect old one for the usual amount of diamond dust (and it doesn't lose constitution or any abilities when raised).

    Blackwing appearing out of nowhere in the old comics is a joke. It's supposed to represent players (and even DMs) ignoring familiars and even forgetting where they are supposed to be until they need them for a specific task. Note the very first comic with Blackwing in it

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven777 View Post
    Disabling the trap puts you into "Serini mode", which might be more tuned to the skillset of a rogue, or at least a balanced party that includes one. That would play into Serini's possible mindset too: wishing for a functional whole party in order to overcome a holistic suite of challenges, rather than how her beloved group ended up fracturing with everyone focusing on their own preference for their dungeon. In Serini's mind, being worthy of reaching the gate might demand a whole cooperating party, not a single kind of skills.
    holy bleep, i like this theory.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Huh. Interesting.

    I love how they're all colour-coded!

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Linneris View Post
    Okay, by RAW, V couldn't have cast Telepathic Bond on that many creatures. We see seven other creatures affected beyond V: Roy, Durkon, Elan, Haley, Belkar, someone offscreen to Belkar's right (presumably Minrah), and Blackwing. By RAW, this would require V to be at least level 21.
    Level 18? V + 6 other creatures. One creature every 3 levels means V would need a ECL of 18.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Worldsong View Post
    I'd say that Occam's Razor agrees.

    I'd bet a lot of quatloos that if you don't disarm the trap like Haley did you won't even notice crossing it. It's not the kind of trap that detonates or betrays its presence.

    Instead the difference in floor colours makes it extremely likely that if you manage to bypass this trap you're entering a different pathway than if you trigger the trap. Granted I doubt a high level rogue would leave it at that so they'll need to remain careful, but odds say that this is the first step you need to take to reach the Gate.
    I dunno. If using the rat skull gives them a few seconds like this, then unless Team Evil went in exactly abreast, whoever was in the back should have seen it hit whoever was I'm front. Though I don't know if we're seeing the usual function. I forget the exact rules around traps, so I don't know if she just tripped the trap or did some weird Rogue thing to it.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Before that comic I was very skeptical of the "multidimensional stone" being more than a wizard-did-it blocker against going through the walls, but given the effect of disarming the trap it seems likely that indeed there is some sort pf shell game going on with those dungeons. It seems very likely that in the end of this dungeon is the Gate. most likely it can really be accessed from any door ( by activating "Serini mode") but even if it's dumb luck and you need to choose the right door and then disarm the trap, it's still likely to be the right door, because of the dramatic necessity.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Books -1 through 4 are 50% off (with 1 being 75% off!). Shipping on ookodook is not that cheap but I bought all six of them and saved a ton of money. Thanks for the heads up giant!

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    OK, theory that they'll get to the Gate by bypassing the trap is looking for and more likely.
    This strip does seem suggestive of that, despite the facts going against that theory that were elaborated upon earlier.

    I'm not quite sure how to interpret what we just saw, though.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro Quester View Post
    Why would an evil team not have a rogue smart enough to bypass a trap? It would seem strange that this skill is the key to finding the gate.

    Unless it requires a particular method of trap disabling, and Serini’s method of key- design and Hayley’s method of trap disabling just coincidentally match?
    The simple answer to this is the question "Who would be the rogue?"

    It's not Redcloak. It's not Xykon. I really doubt it's MitD. Oona might have some tracking skills but she's some kind of beastmaster class, probably better at setting traps than finding them.

    Logically speaking a high-level party should have a rogue but if they don't have one they don't have one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thales View Post
    Redcloak has excellent Wisdom as a cleric, but probably not enough better than Roy to see the runes if Roy couldn't even with the advantage of someone telling him about them.
    Also Redcloak only has one eye. Might affect his ability to spot things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Zero View Post
    Since the rat head is clearly scorched, I don't see any reason to think that Haley didn't just trigger the trap, to disarm it.
    A trap that makes damage after being properly disabled without triggering makes little sense to me.
    Anyway less than a trap that hides itself as a damaging trap, can be easily seen and disarmed by triggering, and instead -aside the damage- is really a portal trap.

    Random team with a rogue: "Oh, look, triggering it with a rat was enough to disable it, no worries"
    Serini: "Yeah, sure!"
    My theory would be that if you trigger the trap unintentionally you don't notice it. It's supposed to be an invisible portal.

    Haley didn't activate the trap, she used a method of disarming that resulted in the magic trap misfiring and exploding. It's like when Blackwing intentionally miscast Vaarsuvius's scroll to cause an explosion (#1020).

    Of course this trap is significantly higher level than Vaarsuvius's scroll and would require more effort to blow up, which is why it requires Haley carefully working on it while the rest of the party discusses how to proceed (she wouldn't have to say that she 'figured it out' if it was as straightforward as triggering it with an inanimate object).

    Quote Originally Posted by Thecommander236 View Post
    Roy is looking right at the line in the comic you cited after its pointed out. Plus everyone could see the magical glyphs in Draketooth's Dungeon. Just because it's a trap doesn't mean the symbols aren't visible. The comic plays fast and loose with the rules sometimes. It looks like Roy can see the line well enough to know where he would have to step to cross it. Just because RC can't disarm traps doesn't mean he wouldn't expect the line to be a trap. Especially since it's universal to every tunnel.

    Plus given how much Oona likes to talk, if she did spot the lines in the dozens, if not hundreds of times she went into the Dungeon, she would mention it at least once.
    He's looking right at the line and when asked by Haley if he can see it he answers "No." He has a rough idea where it is because Haley pointed at it. Also just because everyone could see the magical glyphs in Draketooth's Dungeon doesn't mean all magic traps are visible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Watcher View Post
    I dunno. If using the rat skull gives them a few seconds like this, then unless Team Evil went in exactly abreast, whoever was in the back should have seen it hit whoever was I'm front. Though I don't know if we're seeing the usual function. I forget the exact rules around traps, so I don't know if she just tripped the trap or did some weird Rogue thing to it.
    Basically everything Hyoi said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyoi View Post
    I feel like y'all are all dancing around the most likely explanation of the trap's mechanics: it's not a trap at all, just an always-on portal that links the door to its associated dungeon crawl, which is located somewhere else. Disarming the trap temporarily turns off the portal, so the different-colored floor behind it is just what is actually there behind the portal. Team evil hasn't noticed the trap because simply walking in doesn't trigger any detectable change. The OOTS might have made the same mistake if Haley hadn't stopped Roy before he could step over the trap. After the 20 seconds are up, the portal will turn back on, so anyone following the OOTS will end up on the standard path.

    Bonus points if the runes don't actually create the portal, just provide a means to turn it off, so the dungeon fails safe if someone just destroys the runes. That would mean that without a rogue team evil has no way to bypass the trap even if they know it is there.
    I like that last part. It would also explain why Redcloak and Xykon couldn't bypass it even if they used Truesight or whatever to detect the runes. Might have tried dispelling it and dismissed it when it didn't seem to change anything.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    V+ 6 others (1 per 3x caster levels). As a familiar, Blackwing is a freebie.
    Last edited by Akrasiel; 2020-11-27 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Clarity

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Goblin_Priest View Post
    This strip does seem suggestive of that, despite the facts going against that theory that were elaborated upon earlier.

    I'm not quite sure how to interpret what we just saw, though.
    Some sort of portal (either always-on disableable as suggested earlier, or a portal which appears only when trap is disarmed/disabled) seems likely. Either that or multidimensionality leads to timey-whimey things (Gaia did that impressively, but it is less likely for self-aware RPG fantasy pastiche).
    Last edited by Saint-Just; 2020-11-27 at 12:29 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Linneris View Post
    Okay, by RAW, V couldn't have cast Telepathic Bond on that many creatures. We see seven other creatures affected beyond V: Roy, Durkon, Elan, Haley, Belkar, someone offscreen to Belkar's right (presumably Minrah), and Blackwing. By RAW, this would require V to be at least level 21.
    Let's check the math on that:

    "Targets: You plus one willing creature per three levels, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart"

    So we've got V, Blackwing, Roy, Haley, Elan, Belkar, Durkon, Minrah (off-screen).

    CL0: "You" - covers both V and Blackwing for free, through Share Spells.
    CL3: Roy
    CL6: Haley
    CL9: Elan
    CL12: Belkar
    CL15: Durkon
    CL18: Minrah

    V having a CL of 18 after boosters (like Laurin's Ioun Stone) is not farfetched. So it seems the math checks out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel View Post
    Maybe he skipped Belkar?
    Belkar was definitely hit by it (panel 3).
    Last edited by Psyren; 2020-11-27 at 01:13 PM.
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Worldsong View Post
    My theory would be that if you trigger the trap unintentionally you don't notice it. It's supposed to be an invisible portal.
    I don't know. Your theory surely makes the story move onward, and in that it makes sense.

    But as a trap...
    Let's take as an example what the order did in DCF: a trapped door (even if they were not sure it was trapped, anyway let's assume they use the same modus operandi) triggered on purpose by the meat shield. Maybe with the justification "Come on, we're plenty of healing potions."

    The meat shield walks in and the trap doesn't do anything (apparently, but creates a portal secretly). Doing nothing (apparently) would be a great hint to the party that the trap did something secretly.

    Instead if the trap adds a damage effect for good measure, the party will think that the damage was the purpose of the trap and will ignore the possibility of it doing something else secretly.
    Last edited by Dr.Zero; 2020-11-27 at 12:31 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Thanks Giant!

    Team Evil would have had a high level rogue if Xykon hadn't been a total jerk all this time.
    Last edited by JSSheridan; 2020-11-27 at 12:39 PM.
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  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Trapfinding is indeed Rogue only. And Roy can't see it - Haley has to point it out to him the second time too. He's looking down, but that doesn't mean he sees it (and the fact that she had to tell him the second time implies he can't).

    Do you have a theory on how Redcloak, a pure Cleric, can somehow use trapfinding, a Rogue-only skill?

    Yes, because I pointed out that everyone could see the trap in Draketooth's Dungeon. I made a point of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Windscion View Post
    Magic? Specifically, Find Traps, a level 2 cleric spell.
    Also, thank you DnD nerds! I didn't know that existed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyoi View Post
    I feel like y'all are all dancing around the most likely explanation of the trap's mechanics: it's not a trap at all, just an always-on portal that links the door to its associated dungeon crawl, which is located somewhere else. Disarming the trap temporarily turns off the portal, so the different-colored floor behind it is just what is actually there behind the portal. Team evil hasn't noticed the trap because simply walking in doesn't trigger any detectable change. The OOTS might have made the same mistake if Haley hadn't stopped Roy before he could step over the trap. After the 20 seconds are up, the portal will turn back on, so anyone following the OOTS will end up on the standard path.

    Bonus points if the runes don't actually create the portal, just provide a means to turn it off, so the dungeon fails safe if someone just destroys the runes. That would mean that without a rogue team evil has no way to bypass the trap even if they know it is there.
    Now that is the more reasonable explanation. That I can buy. If the flash is the portal turning off, then that explains why there wasn't a flash when TE went in the other door. Still, I can't see an epic level sorcerer who regularly plain shifts to not notice that he just walked through a magic portal a few dozen times and never question it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Worldsong View Post

    He's looking right at the line and when asked by Haley if he can see it he answers "No." He has a rough idea where it is because Haley pointed at it. Also just because everyone could see the magical glyphs in Draketooth's Dungeon doesn't mean all magic traps are visible.



    Basically everything Hyoi said.



    I like that last part. It would also explain why Redcloak and Xykon couldn't bypass it even if they used Truesight or whatever to detect the runes. Might have tried dispelling it and dismissed it when it didn't seem to change anything.
    I did miss that. Okay, maybe Roy can't see it, but he also has no spot. He does say he can't see the first one, the second one he could reroll a spot check, though and maybe he did see the second one. Regardless, Oona has spot and RC may have the aforementioned detect traps spell.
    Last edited by Thecommander236; 2020-11-27 at 12:41 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Worldsong View Post
    Also Redcloak only has one eye. Might affect his ability to spot things.
    Unlikely. There was a joke that there is no penalty for having one eye (probably by the Right-Eye in the SoD, but maybe it was Worng-Eye in the webcomic)

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Also, I was under the impression that anyone can do a spot check, it's just you need ranks in spot to have more than a hail Mary's chance of seeing anything.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bunsen_h View Post
    I really like this theory.



    How rigid is the "only rogues can see magical traps" rule? Roy couldn't see the line even when Haley pointed right at it and told him exactly what to look for. Team Evil has far weaker clues, but bonuses and magical enhancements.

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    It's sad to see one of Kandro's family heirlooms being treated so cavalierly.

    I have long suspected and predicted that the final dungeon will incorporate all of the Scribblers' beliefs somehow, but I really like this explanation for why it would do so.

    So far we've seen a rogue's deception, Kraagor's might, and the invisible creatures could be like Lirian's guardians. Maybe the trap magic is meant to resemble Durokan's belief in magic, leaving only Soon's honor left to come into play.

    Also, I guess V leveled up against the Nightcrawler in Firmament, because with the +1 from the ioun stone, that would require Level 17 from the calcuations I'm seeing, and the forcecage in the tunnel was "34 hours" which would have been level 16 -- twice (level +1) from the ioun stone at the time.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Thecommander236 View Post
    Now that is the more reasonable explanation. That I can buy. If the flash is the portal turning off, then that explains why there wasn't a flash when TE went in the other door. Still, I can't see an epic level sorcerer who regularly plain shifts to not notice that he just walked through a magic portal a few dozen times and never question it.
    Maybe this is kind of an anti trap? It does not do anything (or deal some damage) if you fall for it. It does nothing if you disable or dispell it.
    But Harley activated the real function by trying to bypass it. And this real function is to open a portal.

    This would explain a lot.
    - nobody (TE) notice any kind of spell effect, since usually, there is no effect (or some kind of effect you would expect from a trap) No plane shift or other kind of travel.
    - the color of the floor changed after 'bypassing' the trap. This seems to be more likely if the dungeon leads to another pane/dimension/location NOW.
    - even if TE could notice the runes (I'm not sure they can) they might just burn a dispell on it in order to render it inactive. This is especially likely if the trap has some kind of visible effect (like damage) when activated normally.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Zero View Post
    I don't know. Your theory surely makes the story move onward, and in that it makes sense.

    But as a trap...
    Let's take as an example what the order did in DCF: a trapped door (even if they were not sure it was trapped, anyway let's assume they use the same modus operandi) triggered on purpose by the meat shield. Maybe with the justification "Come on, we're plenty of healing potions."

    The meat shield walks in and the trap doesn't do anything (apparently, but creates a portal secretly). Doing nothing (apparently) would be a great hint to the party that the trap did something secretly.

    Instead if the trap adds a damage effect for good measure, the party will think that the damage was the purpose of the trap and will ignore the possibility of it doing something else secretly.
    I've got two ideas for that.

    The first one is that having the meatshield try to intentionally trigger the trap (only to find that it does nothing because the line just marks where two different locations are linked by means of portal) would still require noticing the line first. If the odds are low of any intruders spotting the trap that's possibly even better than a portal which disguises itself as an explosive trap.

    The second idea is that even if you notice the line but it doesn't appear to do anything when you step over it that might tip you off that it does something secretly but that would still leave you guessing what exactly the secret effect is, especially if you can't manage to disarm or sabotage it.

    An important part of this would be that Serini might have been a high-level rogue but she would still have to work with ultimately limited resources. Weighing all her options she went for an approach which both fits the mindset of a rogue and which would require a high-level rogue to bypass (and there's probably many other tricks and challenges on the way, so bypassing the portal doesn't mean you've beaten the dungeon). And I believe it's been stated before that the Stickworld tends towards low-average levels (the imp at least was impressed by Vaarsuvius's level as a Wizard).

    Quote Originally Posted by Thecommander236 View Post
    I did miss that. Okay, maybe Roy can't see it, but he also has no spot. He does say he can't see the first one, the second one he could reroll a spot check, though and maybe he did see the second one. Regardless, Oona has spot and RC may have the aforementioned detect traps spell.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thecommander236 View Post
    Also, I was under the impression that anyone can do a spot check, it's just you need ranks in spot to have more than a hail Mary's chance of seeing anything.
    In 3.5 Spot checks don't detect traps which are meant to be hidden (so most of them). You need Trapfinding, which is a type of Search check which is unique to rogues (below Weapon Proficiency and Sneak Attack).

    Find Traps allows a cleric to mimic a rogue's Trapfinding ability but it doesn't guarantee success, and most likely is not as good as a rogue of the same level (due to them investing skill points into the Search skill). On top of that finding the trap doesn't necessarily allow the cleric to disarm it.

    Disarming a trap, similar to finding one, is a unique feature for Rogues where they use a Disable Device check. With magic traps dispel magic can temporarily suppress the trap, although you'd need to roll high enough (bottom of the page.).

    EDIT: Correction, you don't need to be a rogue to find simple traps but given that this is an endgame level dungeon this almost definitely falls under the category of a high-level trap which requires a rogue's Trapfinding ability.

    In addition, Search is an INT-based skill, which given that clerics are WIS-based means that even if they use Find Traps they don't have a very high ability modifier to help them out. In contrast, I've always found it pretty convenient to have some INT as a rogue given that INT is good for skills and rogues are meant to be skill monkeys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Maybe this is kind of an anti trap? It does not do anything (or deal some damage) if you fall for it. It does nothing if you disable or dispell it.
    But Harley activated the real function by trying to bypass it. And this real function is to open a portal.

    This would explain a lot.
    - nobody (TE) notice any kind of spell effect, since usually, there is no effect (or some kind of effect you would expect from a trap) No plane shift or other kind of travel.
    - the color of the floor changed after 'bypassing' the trap. This seems to be more likely if the dungeon leads to another pane/dimension/location NOW.
    - even if TE could notice the runes (I'm not sure they can) they might just burn a dispell on it in order to render it inactive. This is especially likely if the trap has some kind of visible effect (like damage) when activated normally.
    Hmmm... That would be interesting although at the same time I feel like Haley might have caught that. As it is she seems to believe that it's a trap which is triggered upon stepping over it (resetting itself immediately after). Of course it could be that she's good enough to detect and activate it but not good enough to understand its exact workings... do we know how Haley compares to Serini at this point?

  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryq View Post
    I don't see how anyone is stuck on the other side. Belkar isn't, and he was outside the dungeon altogether. If there's a portal, surely it just changed where the corridor goes to, and everyone who enters the dungeon can come?
    Haley specifically says it will go back to normal in 20 seconds. Belkar was dragged through before those 20 seconds were up.
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  27. - Top - End - #87
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    When Hayley triggers the portal by placing the rat skull, the skull is on both sides of the portal at the same time, i.e., it's half "ported". I think this indicates that an authorized visitor would simply tread on the exact right part of the trap as he walked in, in order to get to the "significant" dungeon.

    So, maybe, plot twist - it's not that the gate is in none of the dungeons. It's effectively in all of them.

    Assuming the trap is a portal of course.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Thecommander236 View Post
    Yes, because I pointed out that everyone could see the trap in Draketooth's Dungeon. I made a point of that.
    Counterpoint: this isn't Draketooth's Dungeon, even in Draketooth's Dungeon nobody could see them until Haley pointed them out, and regardless, different traps don't have to function similarly. Just because the audience gets to see the traps as a visual guide by the author does not mean characters csn see them, just as we saw invisibly Vaarsuvius in Xykon's tower, but Xykon couldn't see them.

    If the characters act like they can't see the trap, you should probably believe them.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-11-27 at 01:33 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Thecommander236 View Post
    Also, I was under the impression that anyone can do a spot check, it's just you need ranks in spot to have more than a hail Mary's chance of seeing anything.
    It's 3.5 - Search, rather than Spot, is used for trap detection. And even then, you need a rogue if the trap is tough enough.

    I find it unlikely Redcloak wouldn't be prepping Find Traps though. Perhaps the dimensional stone interferes with that magic in some way that can't fool Trapfinding?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    This has already been mentioned, but there's no means for TE to find this trap. Find Traps is possible, but RC definitely has very few ranks, which would make finding this trap difficult.
    For those who mentioned "RC definitely would have obsessed over it", he is also a heavyweight in confirmation bias. "This doesn't do anything, it's just a line" is much more likely.

    Also, I had to make sure Minrah was coming along. I was worried!

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