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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Considering Serini was presumably a mortal halfling, I doubt either voice belongs to her. Though they might work for her...
    Because she's likely no longer alive? Or because if she were alive, she'd be Venerable, and unlikely to be up to the physicality of ambushing two high-level Paladins?

    Age chart from the SRD: https://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#age

    Considering she was 'the kid' of the Scribble, I think it likely old age wouldn't have taken her yet. Though the point about the Soul Trapped or Bound Lirian/Dorukan being the ones to ultimately fill us in, is a good one.

  2. - Top - End - #212
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Considering Serini was presumably a mortal halfling, I doubt either voice belongs to her.
    Seconded. Wholeheartedly. As I keep saying, they are most likely both dragons or half-dragons. It would explain the speech bubbles, the flight, the magic, the size of the creature carrying the paladins and (here's a new one I've just noticed) the wind. On panels no. 2, 3, 4 and 6 there's a wind moving Lien's cloak. It could be caused by wings (cf. the battle of Azure City), and (based on what we saw there) possibly two sets of them, since the wind keeps changing its direction (left-to-right on no. 2 and 4, right-to left on no. 3 and 6; incidentally, since Serini definitely does not have wings, let alone wings large enough to do that this might give further weight to the idea that Green is not her).

    Though they might work for her...
    I don't think so. As, again, I keep saying, I believe they might be working for Team Tiamat (especially if they are indeed dragons). It would be weird if the one character who knows the future and is sane enough to actually use this knowledge would refrain from interfering with the stuff of cosmic significance which is happening around the Tomb.
    (Side note: I like Grey Wolf's theory about the gemstone better than the Serini is a flying high-powered spellcaster kind of theories.)

    Addendum:
    Quote Originally Posted by BruceGee View Post
    the orange voice is her ally -- specifically, an ancient Good dragon.
    (…) as a sidekick. A noble steed
    Ancient dragons are 30 to 35 HD creatures with 800-1000 years behind them. Serini's importance as a Gatekeeper aside, I don't see one as a sidekick or steed of some halfling with twentysomething levels who could be their great-great-grandchild.
    Last edited by Metastachydium; 2020-11-30 at 09:01 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #213
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Not sure if Rich noticed this, but the speech balloon in panel seven is incorrectly phrased. As a native speaker, this comes off as awkward.

    Haley says
    OK, I've got it figured it out.
    That is not quite correct.

    It's either
    OK, I've got it figured out.
    Or
    OK, I've figured it out.
    Or
    OK, I've got it. I figured it out.
    Or
    OK, I've got it - figured it out.

    Any of those passes muster. What's on the page does not quite work.

    That said, I love the sound effects and the FX in general on panel 9.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-11-30 at 09:55 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #214
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post

    I don't think so. As, again, I keep saying, I believe they might be working for Team Tiamat (especially if they are indeed dragons)....
    How many times have we seen Tiamat in the entire strip? I only remember her coming out of the telephone to scorch poor Lee. Or was it Cedrik?

  5. - Top - End - #215
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosty View Post
    How many times have we seen Tiamat in the entire strip? I only remember her coming out of the telephone to scorch poor Lee. Or was it Cedrik?
    Tiamat was in the Snarl crayon story and was also part of the gaggle of Evil gods who tried to reach out to TDO, and of course is the one that gives the predictions to the Oracle, so she showed up when he put on the full show.

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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Windscion View Post
    Wait a minute. Maybe the purpose of the line is not to keep people out. Maybe the purpose is to keep monsters in! If that's the case, our analysis is flawed.
    I like this line of thinking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyoi View Post
    ... it's not a trap at all, just an always-on portal that links the door to its associated dungeon crawl, which is located somewhere else.
    Dungeons with areas that move you to somewhere else in the dungeon (or even somewhere else) is a great D&D tradition. (There's an example in the three little brown books, Underworld and Wilderness Adventures, in the sample dungeon on page 4; transporters are mentioned in note 5 on page 5)
    Quote Originally Posted by bunsen_h View Post
    Perhaps the trap is in two parts. Haley disabled the first one. The second, harder to detect, activates a portal only if the first one is disarmed or disabled.
    Not a bad design.
    Quote Originally Posted by Feruk View Post
    My quatloos are that they're going to run into - maybe literally - the paladin-stealing invisible peoples.
    Who were last seen flying/floating up and away from the rift. Not seeing this one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius Twist View Post
    Panel 7, Haley says "OK, I've got it figured it out". Is that meant to be "I've got it figured out" or "I've got it; I figured it out"?
    Ah, so somone else did notice it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Necris Omega View Post
    You can't escape a trap if you can never realize you've been trapped in the first place - team evil is being fleeced without even realizing it.
    I like where you are headed with this line of inquiry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Necris Omega View Post
    "Evil overlord zergs the gate with fodder"
    IIRC, someone survived the original Tomb of Horrors by getting a herd of cattle and driving them before the party, triggering traps along the way ... not sure where I heard that, but it sounds like an old school way to deal with that death trap.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-11-30 at 09:58 AM.
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    Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    b. greenstone (paraphrased):
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!
    Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society

  7. - Top - End - #217
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Tiamat was in the Snarl crayon story and was also part of the gaggle of Evil gods who tried to reach out to TDO, and of course is the one that gives the predictions to the Oracle, so she showed up when he put on the full show.

    GW
    I was unsure about whether crayons appearances counted, but yeah, I completely forgot about the Oracle having her show up in spirit. Just feels like that point of the Sweeping Fantasy Epic where seeing entities like Tiamat isn't unexpected. (I expect The Dark One to show up in person, for instance. Right after V Disjoins the Crimson Mantle.)

    And I think, despite Lee saying he'd gotten her to put her vengeance against Darth V on the back burner, I'm not sure that's the case. Guess it'll be some other creature that actually has had one appearance so far.

  8. - Top - End - #218
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    All the other scribblers could have set up defences without having direct access to the gate themselves - Dorukan, for example, didn't need to set up his throne room there. He could have buried the door, then created his tower around it, but without a way to get to it. If, like you claim, there is no reason to have a way to reach the gate, only to reach the self-destruct, why did every other gate remain accessible? Again, the answer is that there must have been a reason why they had to retain access. And if there was a reason for all the other gates, then it is likely true for Serini's gate too. Even if she set up defences that didn't need her there all the time so she could go adventuring, she still would need a way for her or a designated successor to be able to reach the gate just in case.
    Er... I agree with your actual point, but did Dorukan actually build a throne room? Or did you confuse that particular thing with Azure City?

    The general argument goes that, Watsonianly, that's a fair assessment. But Doyleally ("Doyly"?), if we are to get some kind of resolution to the Scribbler thread, we need to meet one of them, and Serini is the last possible one, so she seems a likely candidate. I myself would not be surprised if that jewel with Dorukan and the druid comes into play instead, though.

    GW
    I mean... why not both? And seriously, even if we don't end up seeing Serini herself, I don't think Rich would totally leave us hanging as to what happened to her. I think it'd be best for the last Scribbler the Order learn about to be alive, though. Actually, hold up, they didn't actually meet Soon either. Maybe the whole Azure City arc fills in for that?

    I would certainly love seeing the souls of Dorukan and Lirian in the actual comic, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosty View Post
    Because she's likely no longer alive? Or because if she were alive, she'd be Venerable, and unlikely to be up to the physicality of ambushing two high-level Paladins?

    Age chart from the SRD: https://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#age
    Sneak Attack doesn't go weaken with age, and Serini was so high-level it might not be that much of an obstacle. Heck, I'm not sure if Lien and O-Chul could really be called much more than mid-level, depending on how you define that.

    Considering she was 'the kid' of the Scribble, I think it likely old age wouldn't have taken her yet. Though the point about the Soul Trapped or Bound Lirian/Dorukan being the ones to ultimately fill us in, is a good one.
    I can buy this, yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Seconded. Wholeheartedly. As I keep saying, they are most likely both dragons or half-dragons. It would explain the speech bubbles, the flight, the magic, the size of the creature carrying the paladins and (here's a new one I've just noticed) the wind. On panels no. 2, 3, 4 and 6 there's a wind moving Lien's cloak. It could be caused by wings (cf. the battle of Azure City), and (based on what we saw there) possibly two sets of them, since the wind keeps changing its direction (left-to-right on no. 2 and 4, right-to left on no. 3 and 6; incidentally, since Serini definitely does not have wings, let alone wings large enough to do that this might give further weight to the idea that Green is not her).
    Dragons or half-dragons could work. If so, Orange is probably a bronze and Green... self-explanatory, to be honest.

    [quote[I don't think so. As, again, I keep saying, I believe they might be working for Team Tiamat (especially if they are indeed dragons). It would be weird if the one character who knows the future and is sane enough to actually use this knowledge would refrain from interfering with the stuff of cosmic significance which is happening around the Tomb.
    (Side note: I like Grey Wolf's theory about the gemstone better than the Serini is a flying high-powered spellcaster kind of theories.)[/quote]

    I was going to argue about that, but... if you're right, then there's someone from each pantheon here at the Pole. Durkon is here on behalf of Thor and at least a couple of deities are working with him, Lien and O-Chul are paladins of the Twelve Gods, and Tiamat is part of the Western Pantheon.

    Huh. Might make it a bit easier to sway Redcloak once Xykon's down, then.

    Addendum:


    Ancient dragons are 30 to 35 HD creatures with 800-1000 years behind them. Serini's importance as a Gatekeeper aside, I don't see one as a sidekick or steed of some halfling with twentysomething levels who could be their great-great-grandchild.
    Also this, yeah. If Orange is a copper dragon then they might be a fairly young dragon, though. Actually the "typical personality" of a copper dragon given in various sourcebooks does suggest that they might get along fairly well with Serini, but considering how Rich already treated black dragons I'm hesitant to assume that.

    One of them being Serini's half-dragon child could work though, maybe? I mean, she did used to have the hots for Girard...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
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  9. - Top - End - #219
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven777 View Post
    Well, except for our two invisible friends.

    I find it easier to believe they are the local gate keepers rather than some outsiders, until new information confirms their status either way.
    Likewise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosty
    (I expect The Dark One to show up in person, for instance. Right after V Disjoins the Crimson Mantle.)
    Here's hoping.
    One of them being Serini's half-dragon child could work though, maybe? I mean, she did used to have the hots for Girard.
    Oooh, I'd forgotten her hearts around Girard in the diary. Yeah, could be. There's a bit of an ick factor, though, so my head canon is "crush" not "actual romantic relationship"
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-11-30 at 10:12 AM.
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  10. - Top - End - #220
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Er... I agree with your actual point, but did Dorukan actually build a throne room? Or did you confuse that particular thing with Azure City?
    No, I am definitely talking about this room with a throne in it. Sure, it might have been put there by Xykon instead, but the room was put there by Dorukan.

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    I mean... why not both? And seriously, even if we don't end up seeing Serini herself, I don't think Rich would totally leave us hanging as to what happened to her. I think it'd be best for the last Scribbler the Order learn about to be alive, though. Actually, hold up, they didn't actually meet Soon either. Maybe the whole Azure City arc fills in for that?
    Just like with whats-his-face, she could have already be dead and entombed near to the gate, so learning what happened to her does not require her to be alive.

    Sorry, not sure how the azure city arc filled in "what happened to the scribblers". Quite the opposite: it is the section that tells us that there is a thread needing tying.

    Grey Wolf
    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2020-11-30 at 10:31 AM.
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  11. - Top - End - #221
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Probably not Girard's kid, since I'm not even sure if humans and halflings can have children together, and Girard is both descended from a black dragon(which have white-on-purple speech bubbles) and is at most a draconic human so even if that guess was right Orange can't be a Draketooth.

    Oh wait if they were they'd have been killed by Familicide anyways unless they also have a healer. I mean, dragons can get high UMD checks I guess...

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    No, I am definitely talking about this room with a throne in it. Sure, it might have been put there by Xykon instead, but the room was put there by Dorukan.
    I'm betting on "Xykon put it there" honestly.

    Just like with whats-his-face, we could she could have already be dead and entombed near to the gate, so learning what happened to her does not require her to be alive.

    Sorry, not sure how the azure city arc filled in "what happened to the scribblers". Quite the opposite: it is the section that tells us that there is a thread needing tying.

    Grey Wolf
    I mean the Azure City arc filled the Order in on what happened to Soon, like how Blood Runs In the Family did so for Girard.
    Last edited by danielxcutter; 2020-11-30 at 10:31 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
    Extended sig here.

  12. - Top - End - #222
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    I was going to argue about that, but... if you're right, then there's someone from each pantheon here at the Pole. Durkon is here on behalf of Thor and at least a couple of deities are working with him, Lien and O-Chul are paladins of the Twelve Gods, and Tiamat is part of the Western Pantheon.

    Huh. Might make it a bit easier to sway Redcloak once Xykon's down, then.
    That would be pretty sweet, you know.

    One of them being Serini's half-dragon child could work though, maybe? I mean, she did used to have the hots for Girard...
    Yeah, well, a crush on handsome dragon-blooded human Girard is one thing, and intercourse with something that could give their child the Large+ size required for wings is another. (Also, isn't half-dragon applied to the race of the other parent? In that case, we would get a Small-sized half-dragon here and that doesn't really fit what we've seen.)

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    I'm betting on "Xykon put it there" honestly.
    Unless Dorukan was into the bones-and-fanged-skulls theme for some reason, I'll have to agree.
    Last edited by Metastachydium; 2020-11-30 at 10:38 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #223
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Oh wait if they were they'd have been killed by Familicide anyways unless they also have a healer. I mean, dragons can get high UMD checks I guess...
    Whatever a high UMD means in practice, it does not seem to have helped any of these dragons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    That would be pretty sweet, you know.
    Indeed.

    Yeah, well, a crush on handsome dragon-blooded human Girard is one thing, and intercourse with something that could give their child the Large+ size required for wings is another. (Also, isn't half-dragon applied to the race of the other parent? In that case, we would get a Small-sized half-dragon here and that doesn't really fit what we've seen.)
    Well maybe the half-dragon progeny of Serini has an item that lets them fly or something I dunno. That was always just wild guessing anyways.

    Unless Dorukan was into the bones-and-fanged-skulls theme for some reason, I'll have to agree.
    He was a conjurer, right? I think he barred necromancy but I'm not sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Whatever a high UMD means in practice, it does not seem to have helped any of these dragons.

    GW
    In the sense that they can use scrolls of Raise Dead et al. easily, but yeah now that I think of it that would require survivors in the first place.
    Last edited by danielxcutter; 2020-11-30 at 10:42 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
    Extended sig here.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    He was a conjurer, right? I think he barred necromancy but I'm not sure.
    I don't remember him mentioning anything which would have told us what his barred school is, but yeah, he definitely sounds like a guy who would do that.

    In the sense that they can use scrolls of Raise Dead et al. easily, but yeah now that I think of it that would require survivors in the first place.
    Like a nice green dragon girl in the next wood over?

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    I don't remember him mentioning anything which would have told us what his barred school is, but yeah, he definitely sounds like a guy who would do that.
    Oh wait, there isn't actually anything to say if he even specialized or not. Animate Dead et al. is (Evil) though. He seemed more about summoning and doing elemental stuff, though.

    Like a nice green dragon girl in the next wood over?
    Heh. In that case, though, the young black dragon would have needed at least a Resurrection even if his ashes hadn't dissolved into the swamp. Those scrolls probably aren't that easy to get and True Res must be nigh-impossible even for an ancient black dragon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
    Extended sig here.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Oh wait, there isn't actually anything to say if he even specialized or not. Animate Dead et al. is (Evil) though. He seemed more about summoning and doing elemental stuff, though.
    True, but if the sigils (which are probably the most powerful stuff he's ever done) are anything to go by, I suppose he might also be an abjurer.

    Heh. In that case, though, the young black dragon would have needed at least a Resurrection even if his ashes hadn't dissolved into the swamp. Those scrolls probably aren't that easy to get and True Res must be nigh-impossible even for an ancient black dragon.
    Familicide doesn't kill through disintegration, though, so I guess today's lesson is that if you must be a dragon, try to be open-minded about it.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceGee View Post
    But part of being a monster in a D&D setting is that we don't question its backstory too much.
    But the monsters they’re fighting in this book (redcloak and Xykon) have huge amounts of backstory!

    And in the last book, they fought Crystal (with a backstory), Durkula (with a backstory), giants (with a backstory), and.. the poor wyrm (who admittedly didn’t have much of a backstory, but still managed to have a tragic character arc.)

    The only character who showed up without any reason or explanation was Not Thad, who is not a monster.

    I’d say Not Thad disproves your hypothesis that people have backstories, but monsters don’t :-)
    Last edited by Dion; 2020-11-30 at 11:25 AM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by albertonykus View Post
    As a birder, seeing a raven described as "very small" is funny to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by BarakDeathBlade View Post
    What's his air speed?
    Blackwing's size is Tiny and its fly speed is 40 ft per round.

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleBison View Post
    This is simply not true in OOTS.
    As Vaarsuvius put it himself, they all are monsters, as they all (but humans) have an entry in the Monster Manual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Seconded. Wholeheartedly. As I keep saying, they are most likely both dragons or half-dragons. It would explain the speech bubbles, the flight, the magic, the size of the creature carrying the paladins and (here's a new one I've just noticed) the wind. On panels no. 2, 3, 4 and 6 there's a wind moving Lien's cloak. It could be caused by wings (cf. the battle of Azure City), and (based on what we saw there) possibly two sets of them, since the wind keeps changing its direction (left-to-right on no. 2 and 4, right-to left on no. 3 and 6; incidentally, since Serini definitely does not have wings, let alone wings large enough to do that this might give further weight to the idea that Green is not her).
    Nice catch about the cloak.
    I support this as i've been saying the speech balloons match these of draconic creatures and only draconic creatures since the week this strip came out.
    Now, "draconic creature" can mean a lot of things in any D&D world.
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  20. - Top - End - #230
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Unless Dorukan was into the bones-and-fanged-skulls theme for some reason, I'll have to agree.
    Or unless Xykon just added the ones motif to an existing throne (or replaced one for this one), just as he probably added the snake motif to the room. But even if it used to be, I don't know, Dorukan's bedroom, my point about the room stands, I feel.

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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Quote Originally Posted by skim172 View Post
    I wouldn't say the gates were some sort of test. But I could see this idea work in the premise of "This is what they believed would form the strongest defense". Dorukan believed in magic, Lirian believed in nature, Soon believed in honor, Girard believed in deception - and they built their defenses based on what they believed. Not because they were testing anyone, but simply because they believed this was what made the most sense.

    So I could see the argument that Serini believed teamwork and diversity of approaches was the strongest of all, and constructed a dungeon defended upon that basis.
    And one by one, they've fallen to irony:
    Lirian's fell to the nature it was protected by.

    Dorukan's fell to good-hearted people being manipulated by an evil team.

    Soon's fell to a fallen paladin trying to regain paladinhood by following in the most honorable paladin's footsteps.

    Girard's fell to someone outside his enclave seeing right through his deception after they were slaughtered by someone that had no idea they existed.

    So, the question is, how will/would Serini's Gate fall?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WanderingMist View Post
    And one by one, they've fallen to irony:
    Lirian's fell to the nature it was protected by.

    Dorukan's fell to good-hearted people being manipulated by an evil team.

    Soon's fell to a fallen paladin trying to regain paladinhood by following in the most honorable paladin's footsteps.

    Girard's fell to someone outside his enclave seeing right through his deception after they were slaughtered by someone that had no idea they existed.

    So, the question is, how will/would Serini's Gate fall?
    Made a whole mini essay where I discussed this and related stuff (here if you’re interested) but there’s not a good quotable bit to just show off so I’ll explain my thoughts. Kraagor’s Tomb is a testament to physical strength, made by the person who decided the Order of the Scribble could now only survive by splitting up. Team Evil will take it by combining different types of strength (brute force magic, intelligent planning and being just a really strong monster) in something roughly analogous to a team. And the Order of the Stick will save it by being the team that the Scribblers couldn’t be and sticking together (pun intended).
    Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
    Spoiler: Read this if I've posted a theory in the post above
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    Made a whole mini essay
    The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
    The OoTS in a nutshell, now that they are finally working as a team.

    Small Group dynamics typically go through ... Forming, Storming, Norming, and at last Performing.

    OoTS is finally at that last part.
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post

    One of them being Serini's half-dragon child could work though, maybe? I mean, she did used to have the hots for Girard...
    If so, than that half-dragon child would have died from Familicide, which also would have taken out Serini.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceGee View Post
    The way they are depicted in fiction (Tolkien mostly, but going back to Beowulf) is that dragons seem to be perfectly happy to lie around on their hoard in an out-of-the-way spot for centuries until someone shows up to bother them, whereupon they make a ruckus. Even the highly intelligent ones mostly seem to want
    a) treasure
    b) to be left alone
    c) vengeance on anyone who fails b
    This describes two of the three dragons we've seen in OotS so far (the one at the top of the Draketooth family tree, admittedly, seems to have had...other motivations).

    I suppose there is a more recent literary tradition of dragons banding together, making alliances, playing politics, and that sort of thing, but it's hardly true in "all of fiction."
    That's not really true even of Tolkien. Smaug had spent a few years on his hoard, but before that, had caused terrible destruction. The White Council decided to nudge Thorin towards bothering Smaug in the hope that by stirring up that conflict, the Dwarves and Lake-men together would take Smaug down. This was a strategic play, because they anticipated that otherwise, Smaug would be a valuable force under the control of Sauron and/or the Witch-King of Angmar AKA the leader of the Nazgűl, in the war that they foresaw. Imagine how the War of the Ring would have gone if Sauron had had Smaug to use! EDIT: -- If, in D&D terms, Brand hadn't made that shot with his Arrow of Slaying (dragon).

    And Smaug was far less of a destructive force than some of the other dragons in the earlier ages of that world had been.
    Last edited by bunsen_h; 2020-11-30 at 02:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    Nice catch about the cloak.
    I support this as i've been saying the speech balloons match these of draconic creatures and only draconic creatures since the week this strip came out.
    Technically the speech bubbles could also tell us the Voices are giants (cf. the speech bubbles of frost giants and death giants). The good thing about the erratic wind is that if it is, in fact, caused by wings, we can safely exclude the possibility that the Voices are levitating storm giants one of whom is a sorcerer who knows Invisibility.

    Now, "draconic creature" can mean a lot of things in any D&D world.
    How many big, intelligent, winged dragon-type creatures are there other than half-dragons and true dragons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Or unless Xykon just added the ones motif to an existing throne (or replaced one for this one), just as he probably added the snake motif to the room. But even if it used to be, I don't know, Dorukan's bedroom, my point about the room stands, I feel.
    But why would Dorukan even need a throne room? Otherwise sure it does. However, if Xykon reshaped the room to look more like him, we can't know for certain that it was not sealed previously. Also, it would make sense for Dorukan and Lirian, the only people who could, in fact, do maintenance work on their Gates to leave them accessible, while Soon believed that only the honour of a paladin is unbreakable, so the Guard is a better defence than a wall or a hidden room/cavity. That would only leave us with Girard, whose Gate was not, in fact, accessible, since it was encased in lead and stone.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    [COLOR="#808080"]But why would Dorukan even need a throne room?
    Even a wizard needs to drop a deuce now and again, right?

    Oh, wait, which meaning of the term throne are we using here?
    (Not even sure if that old slang term 'on the throne' = 'on the toilet' is in use)
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-11-30 at 02:14 PM.
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    a. Malifice (paraphrased):
    Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    b. greenstone (paraphrased):
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!
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  28. - Top - End - #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    But why would Dorukan even need a throne room?
    It's fairly typical of wizards to have one, especially when they have a bunch of minions to order about like Dorukan did. But if you don't think he was the type, I offered alternatives. Here is another: it was his lab.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    if Xykon reshaped the room to look more like him, we can't know for certain that it was not sealed previously.
    The self-dstruct run was next to the door. Xykon didn't install it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Also, it would make sense for Dorukan and Lirian, the only people who could, in fact, do maintenance work on their Gates to leave them accessible,
    If the gates need maintenance, they all need maintenace, and thus they all need to be accessible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Technically the speech bubbles could also tell us the Voices are giants (cf. the speech bubbles of frost giants and death giants). The good thing about the erratic wind is that if it is, in fact, caused by wings, we can safely exclude the possibility that the Voices are levitating storm giants one of whom is a sorcerer who knows Invisibility.
    Oh my...
    I never noticed the giants had the same colour-on-lighter-shade-of-same-colour speech bubble than draconic creatures.
    I stand corrected.

    How many big, intelligent, winged dragon-type creatures are there other than half-dragons and true dragons?
    Technically, there're the Draconic and Dragonborn templates, but they don't change the creature type, so they shouldn't give draconic speech bubbles. And they are not SRD.
    There are other draconic creatures in the other monster manuals, but not SRD.
    In the SRD, the only draconic creatures are true dragons, dragon-turtle, dragonne and half-dragon.
    Dragons-Turtles can't fly, and dragonnes are not very intelligent, and i don't think they have prehensile hands.
    The half-dragon templates, though, can be applied to basically anything, so that leave a lot of possibilities.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread

    As unlikely as it may be what if Belkar is related to Serini?

    The climatic fight forces the Order to begin the same ritual to seal the gates and its Belkar who sacrifices himself to save creation?

    It could be the only way to defeat whatever safeguards Serini has requires one of the adventurer's to sacrifice themselves to gain access.

    Well Belkar is fated to die, what if his sacrifice causes Serini to reveal herself after witnessing the same tragedy that cost Kraagor his life?

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