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2020-11-30, 08:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Because she's likely no longer alive? Or because if she were alive, she'd be Venerable, and unlikely to be up to the physicality of ambushing two high-level Paladins?
Age chart from the SRD: https://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#age
Considering she was 'the kid' of the Scribble, I think it likely old age wouldn't have taken her yet. Though the point about the Soul Trapped or Bound Lirian/Dorukan being the ones to ultimately fill us in, is a good one.
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2020-11-30, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Seconded. Wholeheartedly. As I keep saying, they are most likely both dragons or half-dragons. It would explain the speech bubbles, the flight, the magic, the size of the creature carrying the paladins and (here's a new one I've just noticed) the wind. On panels no. 2, 3, 4 and 6 there's a wind moving Lien's cloak. It could be caused by wings (cf. the battle of Azure City), and (based on what we saw there) possibly two sets of them, since the wind keeps changing its direction (left-to-right on no. 2 and 4, right-to left on no. 3 and 6; incidentally, since Serini definitely does not have wings, let alone wings large enough to do that this might give further weight to the idea that Green is not her).
Though they might work for her...
(Side note: I like Grey Wolf's theory about the gemstone better than the Serini is a flying high-powered spellcaster kind of theories.)
Addendum:
Ancient dragons are 30 to 35 HD creatures with 800-1000 years behind them. Serini's importance as a Gatekeeper aside, I don't see one as a sidekick or steed of some halfling with twentysomething levels who could be their great-great-grandchild.Last edited by Metastachydium; 2020-11-30 at 09:01 AM.
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2020-11-30, 09:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Not sure if Rich noticed this, but the speech balloon in panel seven is incorrectly phrased. As a native speaker, this comes off as awkward.
Haley says
OK, I've got it figured it out.
That is not quite correct.
It's either
OK, I've got it figured out.
Or
OK, I've figured it out.
Or
OK, I've got it. I figured it out.
Or
OK, I've got it - figured it out.
Any of those passes muster. What's on the page does not quite work.
That said, I love the sound effects and the FX in general on panel 9.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-11-30 at 09:55 AM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2020-11-30, 09:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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2020-11-30, 09:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
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2020-11-30, 09:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
I like this line of thinking.
Dungeons with areas that move you to somewhere else in the dungeon (or even somewhere else) is a great D&D tradition. (There's an example in the three little brown books, Underworld and Wilderness Adventures, in the sample dungeon on page 4; transporters are mentioned in note 5 on page 5)
Not a bad design.
Who were last seen flying/floating up and away from the rift. Not seeing this one.
Ah, so somone else did notice it.
I like where you are headed with this line of inquiry.
IIRC, someone survived the original Tomb of Horrors by getting a herd of cattle and driving them before the party, triggering traps along the way ... not sure where I heard that, but it sounds like an old school way to deal with that death trap.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-11-30 at 09:58 AM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2020-11-30, 09:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
I was unsure about whether crayons appearances counted, but yeah, I completely forgot about the Oracle having her show up in spirit. Just feels like that point of the Sweeping Fantasy Epic where seeing entities like Tiamat isn't unexpected. (I expect The Dark One to show up in person, for instance. Right after V Disjoins the Crimson Mantle.)
And I think, despite Lee saying he'd gotten her to put her vengeance against Darth V on the back burner, I'm not sure that's the case. Guess it'll be some other creature that actually has had one appearance so far.
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2020-11-30, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Er... I agree with your actual point, but did Dorukan actually build a throne room? Or did you confuse that particular thing with Azure City?
The general argument goes that, Watsonianly, that's a fair assessment. But Doyleally ("Doyly"?), if we are to get some kind of resolution to the Scribbler thread, we need to meet one of them, and Serini is the last possible one, so she seems a likely candidate. I myself would not be surprised if that jewel with Dorukan and the druid comes into play instead, though.
GW
I would certainly love seeing the souls of Dorukan and Lirian in the actual comic, though.
Sneak Attack doesn't go weaken with age, and Serini was so high-level it might not be that much of an obstacle. Heck, I'm not sure if Lien and O-Chul could really be called much more than mid-level, depending on how you define that.
Considering she was 'the kid' of the Scribble, I think it likely old age wouldn't have taken her yet. Though the point about the Soul Trapped or Bound Lirian/Dorukan being the ones to ultimately fill us in, is a good one.
Dragons or half-dragons could work. If so, Orange is probably a bronze and Green... self-explanatory, to be honest.
[quote[I don't think so. As, again, I keep saying, I believe they might be working for Team Tiamat (especially if they are indeed dragons). It would be weird if the one character who knows the future and is sane enough to actually use this knowledge would refrain from interfering with the stuff of cosmic significance which is happening around the Tomb.
(Side note: I like Grey Wolf's theory about the gemstone better than the Serini is a flying high-powered spellcaster kind of theories.)[/quote]
I was going to argue about that, but... if you're right, then there's someone from each pantheon here at the Pole. Durkon is here on behalf of Thor and at least a couple of deities are working with him, Lien and O-Chul are paladins of the Twelve Gods, and Tiamat is part of the Western Pantheon.
Huh. Might make it a bit easier to sway Redcloak once Xykon's down, then.
Addendum:
Ancient dragons are 30 to 35 HD creatures with 800-1000 years behind them. Serini's importance as a Gatekeeper aside, I don't see one as a sidekick or steed of some halfling with twentysomething levels who could be their great-great-grandchild.
One of them being Serini's half-dragon child could work though, maybe? I mean, she did used to have the hots for Girard...Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
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2020-11-30, 10:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Likewise.
Originally Posted by Ghosty
One of them being Serini's half-dragon child could work though, maybe? I mean, she did used to have the hots for Girard.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-11-30 at 10:12 AM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2020-11-30, 10:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
No, I am definitely talking about this room with a throne in it. Sure, it might have been put there by Xykon instead, but the room was put there by Dorukan.
Just like with whats-his-face, she could have already be dead and entombed near to the gate, so learning what happened to her does not require her to be alive.
Sorry, not sure how the azure city arc filled in "what happened to the scribblers". Quite the opposite: it is the section that tells us that there is a thread needing tying.
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2020-11-30 at 10:31 AM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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2020-11-30, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Probably not Girard's kid, since I'm not even sure if humans and halflings can have children together, and Girard is both descended from a black dragon(which have white-on-purple speech bubbles) and is at most a draconic human so even if that guess was right Orange can't be a Draketooth.
Oh wait if they were they'd have been killed by Familicide anyways unless they also have a healer. I mean, dragons can get high UMD checks I guess...
Edit:
I'm betting on "Xykon put it there" honestly.
Just like with whats-his-face, we could she could have already be dead and entombed near to the gate, so learning what happened to her does not require her to be alive.
Sorry, not sure how the azure city arc filled in "what happened to the scribblers". Quite the opposite: it is the section that tells us that there is a thread needing tying.
Grey WolfLast edited by danielxcutter; 2020-11-30 at 10:31 AM.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
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2020-11-30, 10:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
That would be pretty sweet, you know.
One of them being Serini's half-dragon child could work though, maybe? I mean, she did used to have the hots for Girard...
Unless Dorukan was into the bones-and-fanged-skulls theme for some reason, I'll have to agree.Last edited by Metastachydium; 2020-11-30 at 10:38 AM.
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2020-11-30, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Whatever a high UMD means in practice, it does not seem to have helped any of these dragons.
GWInterested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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2020-11-30, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Indeed.
Yeah, well, a crush on handsome dragon-blooded human Girard is one thing, and intercourse with something that could give their child the Large+ size required for wings is another. (Also, isn't half-dragon applied to the race of the other parent? In that case, we would get a Small-sized half-dragon here and that doesn't really fit what we've seen.)
Unless Dorukan was into the bones-and-fanged-skulls theme for some reason, I'll have to agree.
In the sense that they can use scrolls of Raise Dead et al. easily, but yeah now that I think of it that would require survivors in the first place.Last edited by danielxcutter; 2020-11-30 at 10:42 AM.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2020-11-30, 10:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
I don't remember him mentioning anything which would have told us what his barred school is, but yeah, he definitely sounds like a guy who would do that.
In the sense that they can use scrolls of Raise Dead et al. easily, but yeah now that I think of it that would require survivors in the first place.
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2020-11-30, 10:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Oh wait, there isn't actually anything to say if he even specialized or not. Animate Dead et al. is (Evil) though. He seemed more about summoning and doing elemental stuff, though.
Like a nice green dragon girl in the next wood over?Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2020-11-30, 11:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
True, but if the sigils (which are probably the most powerful stuff he's ever done) are anything to go by, I suppose he might also be an abjurer.
Heh. In that case, though, the young black dragon would have needed at least a Resurrection even if his ashes hadn't dissolved into the swamp. Those scrolls probably aren't that easy to get and True Res must be nigh-impossible even for an ancient black dragon.
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2020-11-30, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
But the monsters they’re fighting in this book (redcloak and Xykon) have huge amounts of backstory!
And in the last book, they fought Crystal (with a backstory), Durkula (with a backstory), giants (with a backstory), and.. the poor wyrm (who admittedly didn’t have much of a backstory, but still managed to have a tragic character arc.)
The only character who showed up without any reason or explanation was Not Thad, who is not a monster.
I’d say Not Thad disproves your hypothesis that people have backstories, but monsters don’t :-)Last edited by Dion; 2020-11-30 at 11:25 AM.
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2020-11-30, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Blackwing's size is Tiny and its fly speed is 40 ft per round.
As Vaarsuvius put it himself, they all are monsters, as they all (but humans) have an entry in the Monster Manual.
Nice catch about the cloak.
I support this as i've been saying the speech balloons match these of draconic creatures and only draconic creatures since the week this strip came out.
Now, "draconic creature" can mean a lot of things in any D&D world.Que tous les anciens dieux et les nouveaux protčgent la France.
Resistance Data in MM, Volo's, MToF. -- -- Petrocorus's 3.5 Paladin Builds List. -- -- French vs. EnglishOriginally Posted by King Louis XIII in The Musketeers
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2020-11-30, 12:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2020-11-30, 12:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
And one by one, they've fallen to irony:
Lirian's fell to the nature it was protected by.
Dorukan's fell to good-hearted people being manipulated by an evil team.
Soon's fell to a fallen paladin trying to regain paladinhood by following in the most honorable paladin's footsteps.
Girard's fell to someone outside his enclave seeing right through his deception after they were slaughtered by someone that had no idea they existed.
So, the question is, how will/would Serini's Gate fall?
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2020-11-30, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Made a whole mini essay where I discussed this and related stuff (here if you’re interested) but there’s not a good quotable bit to just show off so I’ll explain my thoughts. Kraagor’s Tomb is a testament to physical strength, made by the person who decided the Order of the Scribble could now only survive by splitting up. Team Evil will take it by combining different types of strength (brute force magic, intelligent planning and being just a really strong monster) in something roughly analogous to a team. And the Order of the Stick will save it by being the team that the Scribblers couldn’t be and sticking together (pun intended).
Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2020-11-30, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2020-11-30, 01:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-11-30, 01:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
That's not really true even of Tolkien. Smaug had spent a few years on his hoard, but before that, had caused terrible destruction. The White Council decided to nudge Thorin towards bothering Smaug in the hope that by stirring up that conflict, the Dwarves and Lake-men together would take Smaug down. This was a strategic play, because they anticipated that otherwise, Smaug would be a valuable force under the control of Sauron and/or the Witch-King of Angmar AKA the leader of the Nazgűl, in the war that they foresaw. Imagine how the War of the Ring would have gone if Sauron had had Smaug to use! EDIT: -- If, in D&D terms, Brand hadn't made that shot with his Arrow of Slaying (dragon).
And Smaug was far less of a destructive force than some of the other dragons in the earlier ages of that world had been.Last edited by bunsen_h; 2020-11-30 at 02:00 PM.
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2020-11-30, 01:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Technically the speech bubbles could also tell us the Voices are giants (cf. the speech bubbles of frost giants and death giants). The good thing about the erratic wind is that if it is, in fact, caused by wings, we can safely exclude the possibility that the Voices are levitating storm giants one of whom is a sorcerer who knows Invisibility.
Now, "draconic creature" can mean a lot of things in any D&D world.
But why would Dorukan even need a throne room? Otherwise sure it does. However, if Xykon reshaped the room to look more like him, we can't know for certain that it was not sealed previously. Also, it would make sense for Dorukan and Lirian, the only people who could, in fact, do maintenance work on their Gates to leave them accessible, while Soon believed that only the honour of a paladin is unbreakable, so the Guard is a better defence than a wall or a hidden room/cavity. That would only leave us with Girard, whose Gate was not, in fact, accessible, since it was encased in lead and stone.
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2020-11-30, 02:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-11-30 at 02:14 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2020-11-30, 02:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
It's fairly typical of wizards to have one, especially when they have a bunch of minions to order about like Dorukan did. But if you don't think he was the type, I offered alternatives. Here is another: it was his lab.
The self-dstruct run was next to the door. Xykon didn't install it.
If the gates need maintenance, they all need maintenace, and thus they all need to be accessible.
Grey WolfInterested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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2020-11-30, 03:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Oh my...
I never noticed the giants had the same colour-on-lighter-shade-of-same-colour speech bubble than draconic creatures.
I stand corrected.
How many big, intelligent, winged dragon-type creatures are there other than half-dragons and true dragons?
There are other draconic creatures in the other monster manuals, but not SRD.
In the SRD, the only draconic creatures are true dragons, dragon-turtle, dragonne and half-dragon.
Dragons-Turtles can't fly, and dragonnes are not very intelligent, and i don't think they have prehensile hands.
The half-dragon templates, though, can be applied to basically anything, so that leave a lot of possibilities.Que tous les anciens dieux et les nouveaux protčgent la France.
Resistance Data in MM, Volo's, MToF. -- -- Petrocorus's 3.5 Paladin Builds List. -- -- French vs. EnglishOriginally Posted by King Louis XIII in The Musketeers
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2020-11-30, 03:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
As unlikely as it may be what if Belkar is related to Serini?
The climatic fight forces the Order to begin the same ritual to seal the gates and its Belkar who sacrifices himself to save creation?
It could be the only way to defeat whatever safeguards Serini has requires one of the adventurer's to sacrifice themselves to gain access.
Well Belkar is fated to die, what if his sacrifice causes Serini to reveal herself after witnessing the same tragedy that cost Kraagor his life?