Help choosing a cleric

[jendar41]

Hello,

I am starting a new Lost Mines campaign and am having trouble settling on a character. The campaign may extend past Lost Mines (I hope so, but no guarantee). Party consists of a blade singer wizard, a rogue, and a paladin. We had the choice of rolling or taking the standard array. If you roll, you are stuck with it. The paladin rolled fairly poorly (nothing higher than a 13).

I’ve been thinking of tempest cleric, forge cleric, or twilight cleric, but I’m not sure what race, domain, and/or feat to take. Kind of want to be a front liner who tanks and hits things, so Heavy Armor master feat seems good. The standard array is kind of awkward to build around however, as there is no way I can get 16, 16, 14. My current thinking is to start with HAM as a variant human to get both WIS and STR to 16 to start, use a feat to get booming blade at 4th, and then Res con at 8th if we get that far, but having a 13 con for that long worries me, plus WIS and STR would effectively be stuck at 16 forever.

What is the best domain, race, and/or feat option here? I like the idea of a lightning cleric, but does the maximize trick start to wear off pretty quickly once you get past maximized shatters at 5th level (I’ve never seen Call lightning used that much, but maybe Lost Mines has more outdoor battles than I am used to)?

[jaappleton]

Well, the beauty of Clerics is that they can cover a ton of ground.

They can support, heal, dish out some damage, etc. They can fulfill nearly any role, depending on the Domain.

Domains with spells like Faerie Fire, which grant Advantage on all allies attacks, are quite spectacular. That’s Light and Twilight Domains which get it.

Forge? Like Light it’s very Fire focused. And Fire is a solid damage type, for sure. Not as blasty as Light domain but it gets some solid abilities. It’s tanky for sure.

With the Paladin not having a decent Strength score, there’s really nobody that can wear heavy armor there. So that’s one point for going with the a tanky domain, you’d get almost exclusive dibs on such loot. But a point against it is that you can forgo that altogether and stick with medium or light armor, being more stealth oriented. Both have merits.

Life Domain is boring. It’s very effective, it’s channel divinity is good, it’s extra healing is amazing. But you wouldn’t really get much of a choice in how you play; you’re the healbot. Yay. Everything you do is reactionary, wait until someone is hurt and then heal them. Boring, IMO.

Twilight is a unique Domain. You get support spells. Your channel divinity scales VERY well, almost brokenly so, and can really help prevent a lot of damage.

Tempest can blow things up. Which is great! But outside that channel divinity you’re kinda just a boring vanilla cleric, in my opinion.

I’d recommend Twilight, personally. Activate the channel divinity, which is non-concentration, and then concentrate on something like Faerie Fire. Try to nab one of the SCAG cantrips like Booming Blade and you’re all set.

EDIT: You said you wanted to be tanky. Remember, having an ungodly high AC doesn’t matter if enemies can just run by you and attack the squishiest allies. You’d need some way to attract enemy attention. Spells like Compelled Duel and Warding Bond are ideal for this, though I don’t think most Clerics get Compelled Duel.

[CTurbo]

Can you not use point buy? Ask the DM?

Tempest is my favorite and the HAM feat is a decent feat to start with. Res(Con) is also a very good if not boring feat to start with. I would 100% round out your Con to 14 by level 4 and grab Booming Blade at level 8 though.

[jendar41]

Already asked. Standard array or rolling only.

You think the +3-4 of con saves +1 HP/level is worth missing 1d8 every turn plus the occasional 2d8 rider from levels 5-7?

Or should I just forego HAM to get both by level 4? Never seen it in play so not sure how useful it ends up being, but with 13 con it seems quite useful.

Can you not use point buy? Ask the DM?

Tempest is my favorite and the HAM feat is a decent feat to start with. Res(Con) is also a very good if not boring feat to start with. I would 100% round out your Con to 14 by level 4 and grab Booming Blade at level 8 though.

[jendar41]

Also forgot without HAM though I can’t get 16 STR and 16 WIS using the standard unless I go a different race.

[CTurbo]

You have the option of rolling? I'd roll over taking the standard array every time.

Maintaining concentration on Bless/Spirit Guardians is far more important than dealing a bit of extra damage from Booming Blade. The damage boost from keeping Spirit Guardians up and running will far outweigh the little bit of extra damage Booming Blade will ever do anyway.

[jendar41]

I never seem to roll well, and seeing the Paladin roll nothing higher than a 13 scared me even more. Either I roll poorly and I am secretly hoping for my character to die, which seems like poor sportsmanship, or even worse, I roll really well and outclass everyone else in the game.

When I DM I have my players roll, but do so in a way where everyone has the option of the same array (either everyone rolls one number and the whole group gets the collective array, or everyone rolls one array and can choose anyone else’s array and I just deal with higher stats). I’ve played in enough games where rolling results in unbalanced players and less fun for one or more players that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but alas it is what it is with this DM.

You have the option of rolling? I'd roll over taking the standard array every time.

Maintaining concentration on Bless/Spirit Guardians is far more important than dealing a bit of extra damage from Booming Blade. The damage boost from keeping Spirit Guardians up and running will far outweigh the little bit of extra damage Booming Blade will ever do anyway.

[RogueJK]

Clerics, even the more martial-focused ones, quickly reach a point in Tier 2 and beyond where they have better things to be doing with their Actions besides just swinging their weapon 1x per round. Even the extra 1d8 damage from Divine Strike at Level 8+ isn't enough to make prioritizing melee attacks a good option. Even if you were to spend an entire feat getting Booming Blade, it would just turns your post-Tier 1 melee attack from "almost always a bad choice" to "sometimes an okay-but-not-great choice". Trying to prioritize melee also sucks ASIs away from WIS, which should be your focus on a single-classed Cleric anyway.

In addition, you already have 2/4 or 3/4 of your party members that are melee characters, depending on whether your Rogue is melee or ranged. (Although the Bladesinger will also reach a similar point where Spellcasting mostly overrides melee, though it will be later than you since they get Extra Attack and can also swap out attacks for Cantrips.) So you should look to fill another role. Frontline support/buff/debuff/AoE caster is a good fit, and something that your party needs.

Therefore, I suggest Tempest or Twilight. You get Heavy Armor. You get the feel of swinging a martial weapon on the front lines at lower levels, supplemented by some spellcasting. And you can easily transition into a greater spellcasting focus as you move past Tier 1. Go Tempest if you want some more AoE/Blasty options (which is an area in which your Bladesinger may or may not be able to contribute, depending on their spell choices and whether they decide to stay laser-focused on boosting their own melee and defensive abilities), or go Twilight if you want some more Support/Buff-type options (which would be my preference in this current party makeup).

If you do continue past Tier 1, ignore the weapon in your hand for everything but Opportunity Attacks, and instead focus on spells, using cantrips like Word of Radiance or Toll the Dead on turns when your Action isn't needed elsewhere. At Level 8, swap Divine Strike for Blessed Strike to add that d8 to your cantrips. Spiritual Weapon will be a very frequent use of your Bonus Action, so you'll still get the feel of making melee attack rolls in many combat rounds, just using WIS-based Spiritual Weapon attacks.

Starting at Level 5, your go-to for combat will usually look something like:
Round 1: Flip on a Concentration spell like Spirit Guardians, Call Lightning, Moonbeam, Bless, Bane, or Faerie Fire with your Action.
Round 2: Activate your Twilight Channel Divinity, or call down a lightning bolt or move your moonbeam, or cast a cantrip, or Dodge with your Action, then activate Spiritual Weapon as a Bonus Action and attack with it.
Round 3+: Cast a non-concentration spell or cantrip, or call down a lightning bolt or move your moonbeam, or Dodge with your action, and make a Spiritual Weapon Bonus Action attack.

I would not take Heavy Armor Master. Yes, it's useful at lower levels like for strictly Lost Mines in Tier 1, but as you gain levels you start running into things other than just non-magical slashing/piercing/bludgeoning damage much more frequently. And even in Tier 1 you don't really need the boost to your STR, since you'll already have a 15/16 which is plenty for Tier 1, and you won't be making many STR-based attacks past Tier 1 as you transition to more spellcasting. Instead, I'd look at something like Fey Touched, which boosts your WIS and also gives you some additional spellcasting options that you wouldn't otherwise have access to, and Resilient CON to boost your CON and assist with the ever-important Concentration checks.

Standard Array with a Variant Human would look something like:
STR 15+1
DEX 10
CON 13+1 (Resilient CON)
INT 8
WIS 14+1
CHA 12
Take Fey Touched for +1 WIS at 4th, then +2 WIS at 8th and 12th.

or

STR 14+1
DEX 10
CON 13 +1 (Resilient CON)
INT 8
WIS 15+1
CHA 12
Take two +1 WIS half feats like Fey Touched, Shadow Touched, Skill Expert, Telekinetic, or Observant at 4th and 8th to bring it to 18 by 8th, and then max it out with +2 WIS at 12th.

Either one can be solid melee Cleric in Tier 1, which is where Lost Mines takes place. The first one is a slightly better setup for the Tier 1 melee attacks, whereas the second one is a slightly better foundation for continuing into Tiers 2+.

[Keravath]

Variant Human, arcana cleric at level 1 and pick up resilient con would be one option. Some folks like to take magic initiate druid for shillelagh. There is a good build suggestion for it in a thread on here. Shillelagh lets you use wisdom instead of strength for attacks.

However, I've played one to 6th level so far and the bonus action can get quite overloaded and limited by other spell casting. For example, by level 5, as a melee cleric, you are often putting up spirit guardians. At this point you WANT either war caster or resilient con to help prevent this spell from dropping.

However, you can't cast shillelagh because casting spirit guardians as an action prevents it. On the second round you have a choice between spiritual weapon and shillelagh since they are both bonus actions. Spiritual weapon has the advantage of giving you a bonus action attack for each round so you usually want it out early. This often means that you won't get shillelagh out until the third round of combat, but by then you may need to cast healing word or cure wounds to get someone back up and as a result you still can't cast shillelagh.

The upside of having shillelagh is that your attacks will scale with wisdom.

The big advantage of Arcana cleric (from SCAG) is that you can pick up booming blade as a cleric cantrip which will help with your damage scaling when making one attack. In addition, at level 8 the Arcana cleric adds their wisdom modifier to damage which scales well with booming blade since you get to add your attack stat and your wisdom modifier onto the weapon and booming blade damage.

Life cleric is a very good healer and if you combine it with one level of druid you can potentially have very effective good berries depending on how your DM rules on it.

Arcana cleric wears medium armor so you need at least 14 dex rather than 15 strength for heavy armor. You then use either ranged weapons or finesse ones for attacks.