Tashas Mind Whip

[AttilatheYeon]

What do you all think about the spell? I feel like it would pair well with BB, or if i need it to stick, Mind Sliver.

[ftafp]

What do you all think about the spell? I feel like it would pair well with BB, or if i need it to stick, Mind Sliver.

it's definitely a great spell to whip out but if anything I'd think it would pair horribly with booming blade. few players/dms would choose "move" when the choice is "move or act", especially when there's an added punishment to moving

[MaxWilson]

What do you all think about the spell? I feel like it would pair well with BB, or if i need it to stick, Mind Sliver.

Expensive for its effect, targets a weak save on most monsters, no concentration, short duration. Very strong against melee monsters, for one round. Upcasts well.

You can sort of think of it as the physical analogue to Counterspell: you're preemptively countering a round of melee attacks at the cost of your action and a 2nd+ level spell slot.

Generally a concentration-based control option like Tasha's Hideous Laughter or Hypnotic Pattern will be better, but you can stack that with a Mind Whip in followup rounds in tough fights. Or you can use Mind Whip against solos to chew up legendary resistance. Niche, but worth learning.

[RogueJK]

Yeah, I'm not seeing much synergy with Booming Blade there. There are cheaper and easier ways to get away after hitting someone with a BB.

But it's a potentially nifty combo when used on an enemy caught in an area effect spell like Web or Entangle that requires an action to break out. They're stuck so they can't just Move, but if they use their Action to break free, they can no longer move out of the area thanks to Mind Whip, and just get stuck again at the start of their next turn, then must use their Action again to break free. They end up stuck longer, and possibly wasting multiple Actions, while also taking a bit of additional ranged damage.

[tokek]

I am working on a sorcerer concept character and I think this spell is going to make it onto the very short spell list they get for a few reasons beyond the obvious thematic fit with aberrant mind.

It plays a strong action economy game against any opposition with one big bad to worry about, especially if that big bad is a melee threat. Hit it with this spell and everyone just back away - it cannot react to take an opportunity attack and then it is stuck only being able to move but not then fight.

As you get to higher levels where legendary actions become more dominant I think it runs out of power so then I would swap it out but as it comes in while a character is still in tier-1 I think its a handy little spell. Also as someone else pointed out it has hilarious combo capacity with spells like entangle and web which are some of my favourite battlefield control spells at these levels.

[Ir0ns0ul]

I was heavily considering it to improve my selection of stackable control spells. I was trying to compare it against Blindness/Deafness. Don’t know if it’s feasible, but both falls into the niche of ok controlling spells that do not require Concentration.

Which one do you guys think it’s better?

Tasha’s Mind Whip has an ok damage, targets a common weak save (INT), has a good effect, but it’s only one round.

Blindness/Deafness has no damage, targets a common strong save (CON) and has a good effect with great duration. Even targeting a strong save, you can guarantee at least 2 rounds of debuff if the enemy fails when you cast it.

I don’t quite remember other comparable spells that could be considered as well.

[Throne12]

I was heavily considering it to improve my selection of stackable control spells. I was trying to compare it against Blindness/Deafness. Don’t know if it’s feasible, but both falls into the niche of ok controlling spells that do not require Concentration.

Which one do you guys think it’s better?

Tasha’s Mind Whip has an ok damage, targets a common weak save (INT), has a good effect, but it’s only one round.

Blindness/Deafness has no damage, targets a common strong save (CON) and has a good effect with great duration. Even targeting a strong save, you can guarantee at least 2 rounds of debuff if the enemy fails when you cast it.

I don’t quite remember other comparable spells that could be considered as well.

I hate spells that target con save. They are never successful. And for solo boss monster it even worst because they have high con. I've been playing 5e for years now and I cant remember a enemy failing a con save.

[Gignere]

I hate spells that target con save. They are never successful. And for solo boss monster it even worst because they have high con. I've been playing 5e for years now and I cant remember a enemy failing a con save.

I think your DM is hiding his casters concentration rolls if you never seen an enemy fail a con save.

[Chaosmancer]

I think a key point was mentioned that needs to be considered.

Mind Whip turns off reactions, so a creature hit by it is often going to end up needing to either waste their turn dodging (only action they can take unless they have a ranged attack) or move to catch up with the party, and not deal any damage.

It also works very well on a group of enemies running towards you, because they are still distant so you can blast them, and they either keep coming or get stopped for round.

All in all, I think this is an incredibly powerful spell

[MaxWilson]

Oh BTW, Tasha's Mind Whip is a good candidate for a Scribe wizard's 10th level scroll, due to upcasting well.

[PhantomSoul]

Oh BTW, Tasha's Mind Whip is a good candidate for a Scribe wizard's 10th level scroll, due to upcasting well.

Speaking of "combos", at 2nd level it's eligible for being double-cast by Enchantment Wizards (L10+: Split Enchantment).

[RogueJK]

Speaking of "combos", at 2nd level it's eligible for being double-cast by Enchantment Wizards (L10+: Split Enchantment).

Which ends up with the same effect as the Scribe Wizard's scroll casting it at 3rd Level: targeting two enemies.

The difference being Scribe Wizard gets to cast it once per day for free and then must choose between using 2nd level slots to only affect one enemy or using 3rd level slots to affect two enemies at a time, while the Enchantment Wizard gets to affect two enemies every time it's cast using only 2nd level slots.

Both have their pros and cons, but I think Enchantment is overall slightly better in this regard.

[MaxWilson]

Both have their pros and cons, but I think Enchantment is overall better in this regard.

Agreed. It's nice to see a mid-level use for Split Enchantment. Even better, it's one that works even on targets that cannot be Charmed.

[RogueJK]

Agreed. It's nice to see a mid-level use for Split Enchantment. Even better, it's one that works even on targets that cannot be Charmed.

Excellent point. That's an area in which Enchantment spells can sometimes be weak.

I kinda like how Xanathar's (Mind Spike) and now Tasha's (Mind Whip) have both introduced similar 2nd level damage spell options for traditionally less-/non-damaging spell schools.

Perhaps the next book will have Mind Block, a 2nd level Abjuration spell with 3 dice of psychic damage and a school-appropriate rider effect?

[stoutstien]

Love the spell. Probably my favorite lv 2 spell In game. Game needs more useable debuffs
Only complaint is that artificer didn't get it.

[MaxWilson]

It's actually a good candidate for Spell Mastery at 18th level. Unlike many 2nd level spells, you'd actually WANT to spam it enough for spell slots to be an issue.

Invisibility and Misty Step remain contenders too of course.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

It looks like an updated version of mind trust from UA(moved from a BA spell to an A spell).

I use it with quicken+repealing blast to make the enemy lose attack.

[Snivlem]

I think it is good enough to be a contender for lore bards lvl 6 magical secret