Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

[Tatafornow]

Hello All,

What is the thinking on whether Belkar will die and become a sexy shoeless (and literal) god of war, i.e. become a god and progress the plot in that way, perhaps through voting in a second godsmoot?

(My question is partially inspired by his sexy shoelessness being more than a memorable throwaway line - see its use at and up to comic 610.)

I have made an account to ask this question, so apologies if there is already a thread on it! If there is I would really appreciate a link.

Many thanks!

[Ionathus]

I'd bet against him being relevant to the Godsmoot. The tie vote at the Godsmoot seems like a plot point for the events of Utterly Dwarfed but not relevant to the comic as a whole or the last book in particular.

Start of Darkness talks a bit about the Dark One's ascension to godhood, and it looks like you need a lot of mortals believing in you and dedicated to your cause. Belkar isn't really a leader or influential beyond "you're afraid of me if you're within reach of my daggers" so that would be a hard barrier to surmount.

[InvisibleBison]

The main flaw with this argument is that Belkar is just not all that impressive a warrior. Sure, he can kick the asses of a bunch of low-level mooks, but Roy is able to pretty easily defeat him when they clash. He certainly doesn't seem to have the level of martial skill that would earn divinity.

Even if he is enough of a badass to become some sort of war god, though, badassery probably isn't enough for apotheosis. the only instance of divine ascension that we know the details of is the Dark One's and he didn't do it on his own - it was the efforts of a huge army of goblinoids rampaging around the world slaughtering in his name for over a year that actually turned him into a god. It seems that being worshiped is essential to becoming a god, and there's no one who worships Belkar.

[WanderingMist]

Start of Darkness talks a bit about the Dark One's ascension to godhood, and it looks like you need a lot of mortals believing in you and dedicated to your cause.

That, OR, as Thor said, sponsorship from an already existing pantheon.

The question is: Is The Dark One the type of god to sponsor Banjo and Giggles, the true saviors of the Stickverse?

[Peelee]

Let's assume, for the moment, that Belkar did become a deity.

Even if he could vote in the Godsmoot, they'd still need to wait on Dvalin, who is going to cast the deciding vote in favor of the world going on anyway, so Belkar would either have no effect if he voted against destruction or would tie it yet again if he voted for destruction. Belkar would also presumably be in the Northern pantheon, and this completely useless as far as patching the rifts, since they would still need The Dark One, who doesn't know Belkar from a hole in the ground. Finally, Belkar could do nothing about Xykon, being restricted by all the "dumb God rules" against direct action on the Material Plane.

So, if Belkar somehow became a god, it would have zero impact on the story.

Belkar is not going to become a god.

[KorvinStarmast]

Let's assume, for the moment, that Belkar did become a deity.

He doesn't have a high priest to attend the godsmoot for him (Hel's problem for a long time) and needs time for some plucky {pick an adventurer here, maybe a bard-rogue-sorceress from Greysky City} to get enough levels in cleric to be a high priest.

[Peelee]

He doesn't have a high priest to attend the godsmoot for him (Hel's problem for a long time) and needs time for some plucky {pick an adventurer here, maybe a bard-rogue-sorceress from Greysky City} to get enough levels in cleric to be a high priest.

That too. Frankly, I was trying to assume absolutely ideal conditions to show how even then it wouldn't really do anything to affect the story, but I flat-out forgot the high priest issue. Add that to the pile, I guess.

[Shirow]

That too. Frankly, I was trying to assume absolutely ideal conditions to show how even then it wouldn't really do anything to affect the story, but I flat-out forgot the high priest issue. Add that to the pile, I guess.

Since the prophecy states that he has to stop drawing breath, godhood could be a cool way to opt out(that or a druid reincarnates him as a sea creature). A future purple quiddity pantheon with the DO, Belkar, Giggles and Banjo could continue the spot welding of the rifts if the world doesn't end.

I wouldn't mind that as an epilogue, but yeah it is highly unlikely that it becomes a plot point.

To even out that purple pantheon though, the DO is LE, Banjo is probably Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Good, Giggles is Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil or True Neutral? So, it would be interesting if Belkar could become a Neutral Good or Lawful Good god of repentance or redemption (sorry Miko! Ha hah).

It could be. If old age and/or apotheosis award the equivalent of +4 points of wisdom.

[KorvinStarmast]

It could be. If old age and/or apotheosis award the equivalent of +4 points of wisdom.

IIRC, becoming a vampire boost your INT by 4 (3.5e experts, please confirm or deny) so becoming a deity boosting INT by +4 seems reasonable.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Since the prophecy states that he has to stop drawing breath, godhood could be a cool way to opt out

The prophecy also implies he won't get to enjoy cake after his next birthday, and I don't see why gods wouldn't get to enjoy birthday cakes.

GW

[Kantaki]

The prophecy also implies he won't get to enjoy cake after his next birthday, and I don't see why gods wouldn't get to enjoy birthday cakes.

GW

Because they have ascension days, not birthdays.

But nah, apotheosis isn't in the books for the little blight, unless he pulls something really impressive in the immediate (in-comic) future.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Because they have ascension days, not birthdays.

A cake is a cake is a cake
[h/t] Gertrude Stein

GW

[KorvinStarmast]

I don't see why gods wouldn't get to enjoy birthday cakes.

Wait, don't gods eat ambrosia?
I don't understand ambrosia(def 2) as cake, but with as much Iron Chef and Chopped as I've watched over the years, perhaps it can be made into one.

On the other hand:
Sometimes a cake, is just a cake
~ Sigmund Freund

[Metastachydium]

IIRC, becoming a vampire boost your INT by 4 (3.5e experts, please confirm or deny) so becoming a deity boosting INT by +4 seems reasonable.

It's a mere +2, but the template also gives a +2 to WIS.

[KorvinStarmast]

It's a mere +2, but the template also gives a +2 to WIS.

Hmm, not sure why I posited ascension as giving INT 4, I was thinking WIS 4 for becoming a deity, but your explanation is even better than my guessing and mistakes.

[Blue Dragon]

I can see Belkar becoming a vampire and not changing whatsoever. His meeting with the vampire spirit would be more like: "sup!" and the only true tragedy for him would be he not being able to eat normal food anymore.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I can see Belkar becoming a vampire and not changing whatsoever. His meeting with the vampire spirit would be more like: "sup!" and the only true tragedy for him would be he not being able to eat normal food anymore.

That's not how vampires work in OotS. Belkar would end up chained inside of his own mind, watching a vampiric spirit use his body to have the kind of fun Belkar would like to enjoy, but would not get to because he'd be trapped inside his own body, with no control. That is not something Belkar would enjoy.

GW

[Peelee]

That's not how vampires work in OotS. Belkar would end up chained inside of his own mind, watching a vampiric spirit use his body to have the kind of fun Belkar would like to enjoy, but would not get to because he'd be trapped inside his own body, with no control. That is not something Belkar would enjoy.

GW

Also, fairly sure the Order would not tolerate another vampiric party member after their first encounter, especially not Belkar as one.

[Blue Dragon]

That's not how vampires work in OotS. Belkar would end up chained inside of his own mind, watching a vampiric spirit use his body to have the kind of fun Belkar would like to enjoy, but would not get to because he'd be trapped inside his own body, with no control. That is not something Belkar would enjoy.

GW

Yes, I misinterpreted how vampires I presented in the scenario.

[Blue Dragon]

Also, fairly sure the Order would not tolerate another vampiric party member after their first encounter, especially not Belkar as one.

The Order of the Stick abhors repeated plots.

[KorvinStarmast]

The Order of the Stick abhors repeated plots.

Other than the dreaded "the gate was destroyed" repeat ...
Elan, Miko, and Roy all destroyed gates.

Spoiler: SoD moment

Show

So did Redcloak, but he's not in the Order, and neither was Miko for that matter.
Did anyone other than me notice that the only person who has been nearby when all four gates blew up was Redcloak?

[Fyraltari]

Other than the dreaded "the gate was destroyed" repeat ...
Elan, Miko, and Roy all destroyed gates.

And the Order of the Stick isn't happy about it.

[InvisibleBison]

Spoiler: SoD moment

Show

Did anyone other than me notice that the only person who has been nearby when all four gates blew up was Redcloak?

Spoiler: Start of Darkness

Show

Why doesn't Xykon also qualify? True, he wasn't in the immediate vicinity of Lirian's gate when it was destroyed, but then Redcloak wasn't in the immediate vicinity of Dorukan's Gate when it was destroyed. I don't see why one would count as nearby and the other wouldn't.

[dancrilis]

Elan, Miko, and Roy all destroyed gates.

Spoiler: SoD moment

Show

So did Redcloak

Spoiler: SOD

Show

I believe that was actually the treants - they were trying to avoid a fire he started but he didn't actually destroy the gate himself.

It would be like if someone lights your house on fire and you break down your door to escape - they might be responsible but you still broke your door, except in this case your door is one of the corner stones protecting reality, frankly Lirian was likely being a bit of a jerk when she superglued (or whatever) the treants to the gate.

[Fyraltari]

Spoiler: SOD

Show

I believe that was actually the treants - they were trying to avoid a fire he started but he didn't actually destroy the gate himself.

It would be like if someone lights your house on fire and you break down your door to escape - they might be responsible but you still broke your door, except in this case your door is one of the corner stones protecting reality, frankly Lirian was likely being a bit of a jerk when she superglued (or whatever) the treants to the gate.

Can these creatures move around normally? Or are they stuck in one spot anyway?

[dancrilis]

Can these creatures move around normally? Or are they stuck in one spot anyway?

Yes, they are as fast as your average human.
They generally don't move that much but that is a choice not a restriction.

Spoiler: SOD

Show

Lirian likely attached them to the gate as a safeguard to ensure they would break it (they are good at damaging objects), but it still seems like a bit of dubious behaviour to me - particularly when she could have attached it to normal trees and merely had a free Treant on standby to animate the trees if needed to destroy the gate.

[Yanisa]

Can these creatures move around normally? Or are they stuck in one spot anyway?

The 3.5 monster manual version have a movement speed, so they can move. Even variants made with spells have movement speeds.

[Fyraltari]

What the ****, Lirian? You had an army, you could just have had people stand guard next to it.

[Quartz]

The prophecy also implies he won't get to enjoy cake after his next birthday,

So Belkar gets Covid? :)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

What the ****, Lirian? You had an army, you could just have had people stand guard next to it.

The treants seem to fulfil the same purpose the rune in Dorukan's dungeon does: to provide a method for the gate to self-destruct in case the wrong kind of people get hold of it.

GW