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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Apr 2019

    Default Rime of the Frostmaiden DM Help Requeqsted

    SPOILER WARNING: This whole thing is a spoiler for Rime of the Frostmaiden, especially for players.

    I am a DM getting ready to run Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden. My group has four players: 1. Female Goliath Tempest Cleric; 2. Male Half-Orc Paladin (who will likely take the Oath of Vengeance at level 3); 3. Female Tiefling Warlock (right now she is leaning towards Fiend, but she may go with Celestial instead, she will make her character this week) (she is leaning towards taking the Pact of the Blade, but we'll see about that); and 4. Male Mountain Dwarf Fighter (who intends to become a Rune Knight at level 3).

    Overall, I think the book presents a fairly robust foundation upon which to build a campaign. It's not perfect, but there is enough cool stuff in the book that I think it will work out. That said, I have some questions--I'm seeking advice on how to fix a few of the issues that I can see as breaking the fourth wall or breaking immersion.

    1. Since Auril has been inflicting the Everlasting Rime on the people of Icewind Dale for two years at the start of the campaign, the question immediately presents itself: Why has nobody else tried to fix this? Specifically, why haven't any of the "big name" heroes in the Realms tried to fix it? For example, Drizzt Do'Urden is called out specifically in the book--a player can have a "Secret" that he/she is a Drizzt fan and has a piece of Drizzt's cloak. So, Drizzt is canon in the book. So, why hasn't Drizzt tried to fix the problem? Or any of the other powerful NPCs roaming the Realms? In other adventures, the PCs are the "first on the scene," so it usually makes sense that there aren't any higher-level adventurers/heroes around to solve the problem. But in this adventure, where it is explicitly defined that the problem has been going on for two years--why has nobody else tried to stop Auril?

    2. I really like the idea of the city trapped under ice in the last part of the campaign, the fallen Netherese city. But some of the execution is off for me. For example, there is a headless golem that is bashing its way around. This has been going on for almost two thousand years at this point. Is there some reason that the normal rules of friction and entropy don't work in the city? I don't see any reason in the text, so I don't understand how things like the golem and lots of other things could still be functioning after two thousand years of constant, grinding wear and tear.

    3. Related to number 2: There sure are a lot of people/monsters in both the city and the Caves of Hunger. Some of these make sense, such as the Tomb Tappers. But a lot of the others make me wonder why no one has ever explored and looted the city before when there is a tunnel connecting the Caves of Hunger and the city to the Underdark. Indeed, the PCs can encounter Drow in either the Caves of Hunger or the fallen city or both--Drow raiding parties ascended from the Underdark. So, why hasn't the city already been looted and picked over, if folks from the Underdark can just pop up whenever they want.


    I'm going to end this post here for now as I have to go take care of some things, but I will likely raise some more questions later.

    I appreciate any help the collective hive mind can provide. Thank you.

    --Vorenus

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Beholder

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    Sep 2020

    Default Re: Rime of the Frostmaiden DM Help Requeqsted

    For why no big heros, easiest solution is to say that there were other realms shaking events going on at the same time. Pick your favorite other recent published adventure, and say it's happening at the same time. Descent Into Avernus seems a good candidate, cities dissapearing into Hell seems like it would garner more big hero attention then a few thousands humanoids having issues with an extra long winter.

    For the Caves of Hunger, check the section on Ice Slides at the beginning of the caves section. These are created by the remorhaz's (no idea if spelled right), and are a recent occurance. The Caves of Hunger were only linked to the Underdark very recently by these Ice Slides.

    For how all this stuff still functions in Ythryn? Netherese Magic/enchantment was STRONG. When the Netherese empire existed, 10th level spells were still available to mortals. After the empire fell and Mystral "died" and became Mystra, 10th level powers were taken away.

    Hope that helps!
    Last edited by jojosskul; 2020-12-01 at 02:37 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Feb 2017

    Default Re: Rime of the Frostmaiden DM Help Requeqsted

    Quote Originally Posted by jojosskul View Post
    For why no big heros, easiest solution is to say that there were other realms shaking events going on at the same time. Pick your favorite other recent published adventure, and say it's happening at the same time. Descent Into Avernus seems a good candidate, cities dissapearing into Hell seems like it would garner more big hero attention then a few thousands humanoids having issues with an extra long winter.

    For the Caves of Hunger, check the section on Ice Slides at the beginning of the caves section. These are created by the remorhaz's (no idea if spelled right), and are a recent occurance. The Caves of Hunger were only linked to the Underdark very recently by these Ice Slides.

    For how all this stuff still functions in Ythryn? Netherese Magic/enchantment was STRONG. When the Netherese empire existed, 10th level spells were still available to mortals. After the empire fell and Mystral "died" and became Mystra, 10th level powers were taken away.

    Hope that helps!
    Those are good point.

    For the "why no other hero?" part, there's additional things to consider:

    1. Auril is a true god, and Icewind Dale is very much hers. By the time of the adventure, she's weakened herself enough by spending tons of energy on the eternal night that she can be beaten, but before that it'd have taken a lot of the bigger names to take her down.

    2. It's FR, apocalyptic threats are semi-regular there. A god cursing an isolated and hard to live in region to be more hard to live in is bad, but it'd barely register on many people's radars. Compare that to Tiamat showing up or the Death Curse.

    3. The big names are probably busy doing their own things, too. I'm not sure what Driz'zt is up to, these days, though.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Apr 2019

    Default Re: Rime of the Frostmaiden DM Help Requeqsted

    Excellent points, thank you. I must have missed the detail that the folks populating the Caves of Hunger were new arrivals. There are a lot of bits of detail in this book, so it's quite likely I missed that and probably other details, too. I've read it once cover to cover and I am working my way through it a second time, as well as reading a lot of the supplemental material I found on DM's Guild. Still, there's a lot of stuff in this book.

    Thanks again for the answers. I'm still not sure why Drizzt (or other big name hero) wouldn't fix the problem, but I like the idea of "he's in Hell/Elturel at the moment" or something like that.

    I'd like to hear any more thoughts people might have on my first three questions. Let me also raise another issue here:

    4. Auril's motivation seems really weak to me. She wants to preserve everything in ice? That's it? Seems . . . not very good to me. I would like a better motivation. I saw on some other website (I can't remember which one, I've looked at a lot of sites about this campaign) someone proposed the idea that her real motivation is that she has seen the future and knows that something worse is coming, something frozen in the city. I think I like that approach. I'm trying to come up with a concept that fits that. Additionally, there doesn't seem to be anything that ties Xardorok Sunblight, Auril, and Ythrinn (sp?) together. They all feel kind of haphazardly slapped together in this adventure. So, here's my question: Is there a better way to fit them together? Is there a better way to make the three main plot elements actually relate to each other? Or is the adventure just meant to have three big plot elements that don't relate to each other at all? What does everyone think about this question?

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Feb 2017

    Default Re: Rime of the Frostmaiden DM Help Requeqsted

    Quote Originally Posted by Vorenus View Post
    Excellent points, thank you. I must have missed the detail that the folks populating the Caves of Hunger were new arrivals. There are a lot of bits of detail in this book, so it's quite likely I missed that and probably other details, too. I've read it once cover to cover and I am working my way through it a second time, as well as reading a lot of the supplemental material I found on DM's Guild. Still, there's a lot of stuff in this book.

    Thanks again for the answers. I'm still not sure why Drizzt (or other big name hero) wouldn't fix the problem, but I like the idea of "he's in Hell/Elturel at the moment" or something like that.

    I'd like to hear any more thoughts people might have on my first three questions. Let me also raise another issue here:

    4. Auril's motivation seems really weak to me. She wants to preserve everything in ice? That's it? Seems . . . not very good to me. I would like a better motivation. I saw on some other website (I can't remember which one, I've looked at a lot of sites about this campaign) someone proposed the idea that her real motivation is that she has seen the future and knows that something worse is coming, something frozen in the city. I think I like that approach. I'm trying to come up with a concept that fits that. Additionally, there doesn't seem to be anything that ties Xardorok Sunblight, Auril, and Ythrinn (sp?) together. They all feel kind of haphazardly slapped together in this adventure. So, here's my question: Is there a better way to fit them together? Is there a better way to make the three main plot elements actually relate to each other? Or is the adventure just meant to have three big plot elements that don't relate to each other at all? What does everyone think about this question?
    Auril is a god. She is the incarnation of the harsh, merciless, lethal winter. Preserving everything in ice isn't her motivation, it's her artistic project. Her motivation is that she's Auril.

    Trying to give her a "but there is a bigger fish she's trying to stop" thing would ruin her character, IMO.

    If you want to tie Xardorok Sunblight, Auril, and Ythrinn together more, then here how I would do it:

    Xardorok Sunblight is used by Asmodeus (whose influence the dwarf is mistaking for Deep Dura's) in an attempt to steal Icewind Dale from Auril, and by doing so absorb her divine portfolio. Auril knows this, and is not pleased about it. Meanwhile Ythrinn would guarantee the Duergars' domination on the region and possibly further, so people are being nudged toward finding it.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Beholder

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    Sep 2020

    Default Re: Rime of the Frostmaiden DM Help Requeqsted

    Auril's motivations are gone into in more detail in her section in Appendix C before they go over her stats. Basically, after the other Gods of Fury betrayed her and after the Sundering, she's kind of hiding out. As much as a goddess CAN hide out. She's angry and spiteful and has decided to bend this area of the world to her whims as she licks her wounds, so to speak. It's also been gaining her extra followers and tributes and lets her gather more things/people/etc. for her frozen menagerie.

    Asmodeous and the Duergar are opportunists in this case. They showed up to take advantage of the increased darkness, and Asmodeous (posing as Deep Duerra) has prodded Sunblight along to get both a larger foothold in Faerun and because Sunblight is a Tyrant, and being the LE lord of the 9 Hells Asmodeous is all about Tyrants.

    Ythryn and the Caves of Hunger, if I recall correctly, were sealed off by Auril to "preserve them." Looking at the Gnoll Vampire stat block sidebar on Teke'liki this actually happened OVER 100 years ago, around 1333. It states she sealed him in the glacier to "preserve" an exquisite example of Winter's Endless hunger. The fact that she ALSO sealed off one of the few things powerful enough to stop her eternal winter, Ythryn's Mythallar, is either a happy accident for her or perhaps part of a contingency in case she ever had to hide out here, as she currently is.

    Auril's influence in Icewind Dale isn't new. It's just MUCH more pronounced during Rime. Unless, somehow, a group of level 7 adventurers DO defeat all three avatars of Auril on her island or her Roc (which they shouldn't, after the first two are destroyed Auril would likely hide out, she's arrogant but not stupid) the Mythallar in Ythryn serves as the Deus Ex Machina that can stop the eternal winter whether Auril wants it to or not. Which is why if she's still around she directly shows up in the city to stop them, and THEN Auril would fight to the end because at that point she has nothing to lose by doing so.

    Which is good because the way I read it if Auril sticks around and the Mythallar is active one of the PCs, or more, would need to stay with it for the rest of their lives to keep the Control Weather spell going. Which would actually make for a great heroic self sacrifice moment, but forcing a PC into that to get the "good" ending does kind of suck.

    Anyway, I ramble, but FYI most of the lore that makes the campaign make sense is weirdly hidden in the monster stat block section. This is especially true for Auril, Teke'liki, the Arcane Brotherhood, and the Reghed Tribes. I did the same thing most sane people would do and started from the beginning of the book when prepping. After looking over the stat blocks everything made a LOT more sense on a second read through.
    Last edited by jojosskul; 2020-12-02 at 08:18 AM. Reason: Changed a word to make a sentence make sense

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Apr 2019

    Default Re: Rime of the Frostmaiden DM Help Requeqsted

    Thank you all for your suggestions. I did read the Appendices, including Auril's stat block and the flavor text section. I'll re-read it and maybe that will help.

    Any other thoughts or suggestions out there? I'm enjoying hearing/reading everybody's ideas and thoughts.

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