Nature Blindtank: Rank this build

[dreast]

Hill Dwarf with standard starting array for the sake of argument.

8 13 16 16 12 10

Level 1: Ranger 1.
Level 2: Ranger 2. Take Fog Cloud and 10-foot Blindsight fighting style. Gain mini-Foresight on a 1st level spell slot. (Does not apply to ranged attacks or ranged spell attacks.)
Level 3: Ranger 2/Nature Cleric 1. Gain Heavy armor proficiency (Dwarf obviates need for Strength), Shillelagh, one full caster level for more fog cloud spell slots, several prepared healing spells.

Already a fantastic AC Tank, getting disadvantage against opponent attacks within 10 feet and eliminating almost all Wis-save spells from the battlefield.

Level 4+: Ranger. Polearm Mastery feat (Quarterstaff, doubles as druid spell focus, one-handed to allow for holy symbol shield cleric spell focus). Sentinel feat (Combos with polearm mastery to lock down movement.). Wisdom boosts for the rest of the ASIs (not necessarily in that order.) If going Hunter subclass, Giant Slayer, Multiattack Defense, Whirlwind Attack, Evasion (which polishes off a few remaining useable spells against the fog cloud.). Vanish is always useable in Fog Cloud, if necessary, against those ranged attacks, as a defensive alternative to a bonus action attack with the quarterstaff.

Only downside is that it requires coordination with party to avoid locking out ally Wis save spells and other advantage generation. (Although one level of fighter will get anyone blindsight, and two levels pick up action surge, too.).

Doesn’t work so well against enemy blindsight or tremorsense, but does work against true sight and devil’s sight. Also note that Gust of Wind can interfere. For these cases, there’s always Hunter’s Mark.

Thoughts?

[MaxWilson]

You don't need a build to do a nature blindtank who can pin enemies in place--it's already built into every bog-standard Moon Druid just by casting Fog Cloud and turning into e.g. a CR 2 Giant Constrictor at level 6, and later on at level 15 a CR 5 Giant Hulking Crab. In between there's stuff like CR 3 Giant Scorpion.

It's a tactic, not a build, which is great because when it's inappropriate you can do something else instead.

[RogueJK]

Only downside is that it requires coordination with party to avoid locking out ally Wis save spells and other advantage generation. (Although one level of fighter will get anyone blindsight, and two levels pick up action surge, too.).

Another downside is that your Blind Sight is only 10'. That's fine if you're within 10' of your target when you drop Fog Cloud, provided they stay put, but they're going to have an entire round to move away from you before you can ever attack, and they can move away at any time afterwards as well. As soon as that enemy moves more than 10' away, or dies if they happen to decide to stand toe-to-toe with you and slug it out, you're left hunting around in the obscured area like everyone else for another target, facing either potentially wasting some rounds with no viable nearby enemy target, or else dropping Concentration on Fog Cloud and wasting the spell slot.

If you were to take the Sentinel feat as well, to help keep them from moving away from you after the Fog Cloud appears, that would at least make it semi-viable for the 1 initial target, but that's a lot of resources to be spending on a "one good target" one-trick-pony (feat+fighting style+spell slot+multiple rounds' actions) that cuts down on the party's capabilities while you're at it.

Something like the Restrained condition from the 1st level Ensnaring Strike or Entangle spells that Rangers get does the same thing (enemy has Disadvantage on attacks while you have Advantage, plus can't move away), without investing all those resources like a feat/fighting style/multiple turns, and without hampering the party. In fact, quite the opposite, as the rest of the party has Advantage too against Restrained enemies.


With it being so new, I have yet to see it in action personally, but I seriously doubt the "Darkness/Fog Cloud + 10' Blind Fight" combo that keeps popping up in a large number of threads is going to work as well in actual play as lots of people are apparently assuming.

Besides, we've already seen with the various Devil's Sight Warlocks and Shadow Sorcerers that the whole "I can see but nobody else can" schtick often hampers the party just as much as the enemy, and isn't as broadly useful as it sounds on paper. And they've even got sight beyond just 10 feet, so this is just a strictly worse version of an already niche tactic.


TL;DR: Skip Fog Cloud + Blind Fight, and just use Entangle or Ensnaring Strike. Your party will thank you, and you can use your Fighting Style for something more broadly applicable.

[BamBam]

Fog Cloud is great for gishes with Quicken metamagic and blindsight.

Even if you just Quicken Fog Cloud and use it just for your turn that is advantage on all your attacks and free Disengage. Just drop concentration on your Fog Cloud when you need to be party friendly.

Also, Quicken Fog Cloud followed by action Hide or action Dash is super Cunning Action in a pinch.

Quicken Pyrotechnics is concentration free so can be used to boost a Hasted gish or Animate Objects. You can use Pyrotechnics to AOE blind instead of smoke if you want to be friendly to non-blindsighted party members.

[dreast]

Another downside is that your Blind Sight is only 10'. That's fine if you're within 10' of your target when you drop Fog Cloud, provided they stay put, but they're going to have an entire round to move away from you before you can ever attack, and they can move away at any time afterwards as well. As soon as that enemy moves more than 10' away, or dies if they happen to decide to stand toe-to-toe with you and slug it out, you're left hunting around in the obscured area like everyone else for another target, facing either potentially wasting some rounds with no viable nearby enemy target, or else dropping Concentration on Fog Cloud and wasting the spell slot.

What? Just because you can’t see a target doesn’t mean you don’t know exactly where they are. Unless they’re hidden from you (which takes an action, unless they have vanish, cunning action or nimble escape), you don’t have to “hunt around” for anything. You just step up and smack. And while your movement doesn’t provoke AoO when moving around blinded opponents, their movement DOES. No saving throws, no need to hit them to start it, just cast and you’re golden.

Remember, in 5e, just because you can’t see something doesn’t mean it’s taken off the board, or “board” in theater of the mind. It ALSO has to successfully hide from you... and it goes without saying that this build is perception-proficient and max Wis.

[solidork]

I've never tried these kinds of builds in 5e because I made a similar character in GURPS ages ago and it was just completely impractical. It messed up everyone else and wasn't even satisfying to me when it worked.

[dreast]

Fog Cloud is great for gishes with Quicken metamagic and blindsight.

Even if you just Quicken Fog Cloud and use it just for your turn that is advantage on all your attacks and free Disengage. Just drop concentration on your Fog Cloud when you need to be party friendly.

Also, Quicken Fog Cloud followed by action Hide or action Dash is super Cunning Action in a pinch.

Quicken Pyrotechnics is concentration free so can be used to boost a Hasted gish or Animate Objects. You can use Pyrotechnics to AOE blind instead of smoke if you want to be friendly to non-blindsighted party members.

This feels more offensive than defensive. I’m looking for a primarily tank build that utilizes this combo.