OOTS #1221 - The Discussion Thread

[KorvinStarmast]

Only thing you ever need to keep a dungeon stocked is a deepspawn. Heck, feed it some trapsmiths and engineers and it can keep it maintained too.
Serini's theme for the gate was dungeons and monsters so it makes sense that her system IS a classic dungeon monster.

If Rich wanted to borrow an idea from 13th Age, there is a class of creature that is a sentient dungeon. I've got the supplement/adventure "Eyes of the Stone Thief" - quite honestly, I got it for two reasons: it was at a reduced rate, and having read through the 13th Age book I didn't quite "get" what a sentient dungeon was or could be.

I am so glad I got it. They presented a neat idea of a dungeon as a thing in itself, that is sentient. (It seems to make the dungeon crawl an almost meta dungeon crawl ...). Some day, I'd like to run that ... some day ...

[Rogar Demonblud]

Them's fightin' words.

Now now, you know we do have discussions about the comic on occasion.

[Dion]

Now now, you know we do have discussions about the comic on occasion.

Sure, but not on page 13 of the main thread.

Page 13 is reserved for 90s movies with Jeff Goldblum, Nic Cage, or Antonio Bandaras.

[Riftwolf]

Sure, but not on page 13 of the main thread.

Page 13 is reserved for 90s movies with Jeff Goldblum, Nic Cage, or Antonio Bandaras.

I have never seen any of those discussed before. Ever. We should be onto Oracle denialism and whether Darth Revans mind-rewrite was morally justified (spoiler: it wasn't)

[mormon_soldier]

I have never seen any of those discussed before. Ever. We should be onto Oracle denialism and whether Darth Revans mind-rewrite was morally justified (spoiler: it wasn't)

But would a mind rewrite of Nic Cage be justified?

[KorvinStarmast]

But would a mind rewrite of Nic Cage be justified?

No. He's a unique talent, who has been in some memorable movies and in some forgettable ones. Nic needs to be Nic. That's exactly who he's supposed to be.

(One his roles that I found unforgettable was in a film I saw in an 'arty' theater some years back: Birdy)

[Xel]

Accounting Department!

“Hmm? Oh, sorry, sorry. We’re a bit disused recently. What is the problem?”

Yeah, a sentient magical system was pretty fun.

[UnintensifiedFa]

If Rich wanted to borrow an idea from 13th Age, there is a class of creature that is a sentient dungeon. I've got the supplement/adventure "Eyes of the Stone Thief" - quite honestly, I got it for two reasons: it was at a reduced rate, and having read through the 13th Age book I didn't quite "get" what a sentient dungeon was or could be.

I am so glad I got it. They presented a neat idea of a dungeon as a thing in itself, that is sentient. (It seems to make the dungeon crawl an almost meta dungeon crawl ...). Some day, I'd like to run that ... some day ...

Reminds me of Castle Heterodyne from the Girl Genius Webcomic. Essentially a Sentient Construct/Creature of some sort, that actively works to defend itself.
I don't think that's what this dungeon is, however, as I believe we'd have been introduced to that concept far earlier, but it is an enticing concept.

[danielxcutter]

Reminds me of Castle Heterodyne from the Girl Genius Webcomic. Essentially a Sentient Construct/Creature of some sort, that actively works to defend itself.
I don't think that's what this dungeon is, however, as I believe we'd have been introduced to that concept far earlier, but it is an enticing concept.

Regarding your signature: hey Korean webtoons. Granted I don't read either of them but I've heard ToG is really really freaking big in both the Korean and English speaking communities.

[understatement]

Regarding your signature: hey Korean webtoons. Granted I don't read either of them but I've heard ToG is really really freaking big in both the Korean and English speaking communities.

It's pretty huge. I think it recently got an anime adaption on Crunchyroll.

[bunsen_h]

Reminds me of Castle Heterodyne from the Girl Genius Webcomic. Essentially a Sentient Construct/Creature of some sort, that actively works to defend itself.

In a jolly homicidal way.

Zola: Avoid any floorstone marked in white. It is a trap that will kill you.
Do not stand under any part of the ceiling marked in white. It is a trap that will kill you.
Duck under any opening taller than one meter. It is a trap that will kill you.
Do not touch any metal surface. It is a trap that will kill you.

Redshirt #1: Are you trying to frighten us?

Zola: Yes! This place is dangerous, twisted, and worst of all—

Redshirt #2: Hey, a gold piece! [reaches for coin on floor]

Zola: NO!!

[Pit trap opens with a CLANG]

Redshirt #2: AAAAAAAA [i.e. Wilhelm scream as he falls]

Zola: It likes to think it has a sense of humor.

And it also has a spatial connectivity that changes, which is what I think is going on with this dungeon.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Don't forget that it's so cheerful about getting to do its job. Especially when it discovers it has a hero to play with.

[Fyraltari]

In a jolly homicidal way.

And it also has a spatial connectivity that changes, which is what I think is going on with this dungeon.

You forgot to say that the pit trap includes a little column to keep the gold coin at floor level so that it's still there when the trap resets. I always liked this detail.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Well you don't want to waste good bait.

[bunsen_h]

Don't forget that it's so cheerful about getting to do its job. Especially when it discovers it has a hero to play with.

For example.

[Mad Humanist]

If Rich wanted to borrow an idea from 13th Age, there is a class of creature that is a sentient dungeon. I've got the supplement/adventure "Eyes of the Stone Thief" - quite honestly, I got it for two reasons: it was at a reduced rate, and having read through the 13th Age book I didn't quite "get" what a sentient dungeon was or could be.

I am so glad I got it. They presented a neat idea of a dungeon as a thing in itself, that is sentient. (It seems to make the dungeon crawl an almost meta dungeon crawl ...). Some day, I'd like to run that ... some day ...

A sentient dungeon is one of the playable sides in Vast: The Crystal Caverns. It wins by making rocks fall so everyone dies. Along the way it may help individual players but only to prevent others from winning. It basically hates everyone.

[Rogar Demonblud]

So, again, Castle Heterodyne.

[ijuinkun]

It is quite explicitly stated in Dungeons and Dragons that permanent magical traps and effects are, well, permanent. Any energy cost system involved is not addressed, and addressing it would require addressing why Wizards and Sorcerers can do their thing without eating dozens of Big Macs to fuel their magic. I personally believe that the Gates themselves require maintenance, since the gods themselves can't keep the rifts shut permanently (and hence mortals can't either), but perpetual magic is perpetual, by the rules.

"Permanent" does not need to mean "eternal" in the OOTSverse. The current world, like all of the worlds before it, has an expected lifespan of only several millennia--Thor said "a few thousand" as opposed to "tens of thousands" of years. Anything that is 90% likely to last until the unraveling of the world in which it was created is more than sufficient for "permanence" within the Prime Material Plane. The Gates were never meant to last infinitely, but they could have stood for a thousand years or more if nobody had demolished them.

[danielxcutter]

"Permanent" does not need to mean "eternal" in the OOTSverse. The current world, like all of the worlds before it, has an expected lifespan of only several millennia--Thor said "a few thousand" as opposed to "tens of thousands" of years. Anything that is 90% likely to last until the unraveling of the world in which it was created is more than sufficient for "permanence" within the Prime Material Plane. The Gates were never meant to last infinitely, but they could have stood for a thousand years or more if nobody had demolished them.

I feel the need to point out that the very reason for the Gates was to stop the Snarl from unraveling the world, wasn't it?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Well, slow it down. The Gates don't prevent new Rifts from forming.

[Doug Lampert]

Well, slow it down. The Gates don't prevent new Rifts from forming.

Yep, the gates could be perfect and indestructible, and the world would still be doomed within a few thousand years at most. This is one reason that "trick or convince Red Cloak into helping with the ritual to make new seals" is unlikely to be the solution, because in the long run it doesn't really solve anything.

Heroes in this sort of story typically WIN and SOLVE THE PROBLEM, they very rarely create sealed evil in a can to kick the problem down the road another thousand years.

New seals from Red Cloak is mostly just kicking the problems down the road.

If they can get the Dark One fully on board with preserving the current universe, that might be a win condition (although it still leaves the dwarves and Hel's messed up situation), but I'm betting that Thor's plan was a way to info-dump the actual situation, and not the solution that will be found.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The plan with Redcloak is proof of concept: using the new quiddity to create stronger patches. If it works, eventually they'll replace the entire 3 quiddity prison with 4 quiddity patches.

[danielxcutter]

If they get TDO on board fully they can have his clerics help with spot-welding the new Rifts when they appear even long after Redcloak passes away, presumably.

[Metastachydium]

If they get TDO on board fully they can have his clerics help with spot-welding the new Rifts when they appear even long after Redcloak passes away, presumably.

(Can Redcloak even pass away if he continues to wear the Mantle?)

[Rogar Demonblud]

Well, we know his master was killed, and his master, and her master...

Now, if you're asking about natural causes, well, I doubt even The Dark One knows.

[Dion]

Heroes in this sort of story typically WIN and SOLVE THE PROBLEM,

I’ve been watching a lot of comic book movies lately, and it seems like heroes in this kind of story never solve the problem for very long.

For example, every few months a new movie comes out and they have to save the world all over again.

Heck, I think Batman has been fighting The Joker in the comics for nearly a century, and he seems no closer to winning now than when he started!

So if the heroes in THIS story only have to save the world once every 2,000 years, I think they’re doing pretty darn good compared to most comic heroes in most comic hero stories.

[bunsen_h]

I’ve been watching a lot of comic book movies lately, and it seems like heroes in this kind of story never solve the problem for very long.

"The original cuneiform says 'DO NOT OPEN THIS BOTTLE'. That's kind of scuffed up, and there's the later Egyptian inscription which says 'SERIOUSLY, YOU WILL REGRET IT'. At least, that's what we think it says, a few bits are chipped off. Then there's the lead seal with the runes saying 'IN THE NAME OF THE GODS I BEG YOU TO LEAVE THIS UNDISTURBED'. So what do you think?"

"I think we need to drill a small hole so we can get a microsample of the contents."

[Rogar Demonblud]

So scientists are PCs? Is that what you're telling us?

[bunsen_h]

Something like that.

Several of Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels involve wizards' compulsion to violate such warnings. And of course there's the Hitch-Hiker's Guide:

Arthur Dent: This is my idea of a spaceship, all gleaming white, flashing lights, everything. What happens if I press this button?
Ford Prefect: I wouldn't—
[*electronic bleep*]
Arthur Dent: Oh.
Ford Prefect: What happened?
Arthur Dent: A sign lit up, saying 'Please do not press this button again.'