OOTS #1221 - The Discussion Thread

[B. Pseudonym]

Can't wait to see what kind of can of worms Haley just opened!

Also can't wait to see if Redcloak acts on the door thing now, or if it just kind of sits for a while until MitD shows up again.

Current prediction is that TE will come in through the door, and just when the Order is revving up to charge, the trap activates again, teleporting them elsewhere.

[glowface]

So, Blackwings starting monologue... what is it parodying? It sound awfully familiar.
It is a bit like Rorschach's journal entries from Watchmen, but the reference to the kid and the wife seem to be very un-Rorschachlike.

[Mic_128]

Where would they even retreat to, though?

The tunnel/dungeon that's directly behind them.

[Fyraltari]

People saying that the telepathic link still working rules out the Order being in another dimension are missing the fact that the Giant will only abide by that rule if it's not a bother.

[SlashDash]

They won the first encounter in the original dungeon because team evil was playing them and needed them alive to destroy the gate's defenses.

But ever since?
Every encounter they had was a total loss. They lost the soul splice duel, they barely handled a single 9th level spell slot in the desert (Elemental) and sure there were some extenuating circumstances, if they go into battle with team evil now they are pretty much guaranteed to lose.

Things will need to change, the party will need to upgrade and most likely team evil will have to go through some changes before they can get to a fight (Most likely Redcloak's obvious side switching)



P.S
I have to say, while Redcloak guessing a door was marked by accident is certainly a good guess and is far more likely of him to think of that than actual sabotage from the Monster in the Dark.

Still pondering if he won't question someone else sabotaging their efforts. Like maybe Durkon has been around more than he told him.

[Reboot]

The tunnel/dungeon that's directly behind them.

Yeah, and when TE follows? Retreating only works if you can get enough space to lose pursuit.

Hard to do that in a narrow corridor at close range.

[Thecommander236]

Xykon dismissing the discrepancy should have been a given, I guess...

[Mic_128]

Yeah, and when TE follows? Retreating only works if you can get enough space to lose pursuit.

Hard to do that in a narrow corridor at close range.

1. The tried and tested strategy of "Run away"
2. Throw something at them to distract/delay before running.
3. We don't know what is inside. Forks or branches in the tunnel.

Either way, the point is they can still retreat down the tunnel, even if Team Evil is right at their heels.

[BelgarathMTH]

So, Blackwings starting monologue... what is it parodying? It sound awfully familiar.
It is a bit like Rorschach's journal entries from Watchmen, but the reference to the kid and the wife seem to be very un-Rorschachlike.

That's from old black and white film noir detective movies. They usually start with the detective giving a monologue to himself in his office, when a mysterious woman walks in with a case.

I don't know any specific titles, since I've never seen any originals, but it's very frequently parodied in sci-fi and in cartoons. The various Star Trek series did several holodeck episodes where the officers would be cos-playing it in the holodeck.

[Wraithfighter]

Every encounter they had was a total loss. They lost the soul splice duel, they barely handled a single 9th level spell slot in the desert (Elemental) and sure there were some extenuating circumstances, if they go into battle with team evil now they are pretty much guaranteed to lose.

Things will need to change, the party will need to upgrade and most likely team evil will have to go through some changes before they can get to a fight (Most likely Redcloak's obvious side switching)

I mean, you're not wrong that the Order is probably not quite ready to take on Team Evil, but I think you're underselling just how extenuating those circumstances were, and how much things have changed.

In the desert, they were completely without their most powerful party member, their second most powerful party member was a late arrival and with minimal magic left, Belkar was point of damage away from death (and with a bunch of other penalties), a lot of them had already taken good amounts of damage and they were suddenly thrust into a fight they were completely unprepared for.

Here? They have their full party, they've come here with the explicit expectation that a fight against Xykon might happen, they have a bonus party member too, they have additional levels that they've earned since the desert (gotta figure they earned a bunch during the whole Hel plot), and they're just a more cohesive group as a whole. They've taken some damage and expended some spells so far, but so has Team Evil.

Basically, if there was a fight right now (odds are there won't be), I figure that OOTS would stand a puncher's chance of winning. Things go their way, a bit of luck, some good rolls, and maybe they could squeeze out a victory. But it wouldn't be likely at all.

[dancrilis]

People saying that the telepathic link still working rules out the Order being in another dimension are missing the fact that the Giant will only abide by that rule if it's not a bother.

Assuming that the gate is on the same plane as the other gates then it would make sense for a trap to send people to another plane and a bypassed trap not to (bypassing a trap in order for it to trigger would be somewhat odd) this would also fit with Roy questioning how the dungeons could be mapped - if anything like that is occuring.
I would point out that the sound of disarming the trap was 'Won' which might be an indication that the Order is on the right track - or could be nothing.

Seperately I do have to wonder if the order is not being a little to prepared for their own good - if Belkar clearing the tracks has Team Evil not find the right door and Team Evil knows that magic exists that could have let the dwarves get fairly far away, well they could just wander off and bulk up their defences meaning that all the spells that the order are using are effectively wasted for today unless they act in pseudo short order.

[Darth Paul]

Yes, yes, that's the only logical conclusion, because the other logical conclusion- that the wrong door was marked deliberately- would have such profoundly unacceptable implications! Namely, that the Marker in the Darkness is actively working against your goals for some reason, which would possibly make him the Mole in the Darkness! (Yes, I'm just seeing how many variations on MitD I can get away with in one paragraph before the theme falls apart.)

[locksmith of lo]

TE was not in the other dungeon very long, i guess only for one encounter? mostly verifying that they were misled, in more ways than one.

[dancrilis]

Just reviewing again - seems from the looks on panel 6 that their might still be some bad blood between Roy and Durkon, which is to be expected but nice artistic touch I think.

[Ninja Dragon]

Xykon knows what it's about.

[Blatt]

I wonder what a Beast Mistress such as Oona could do with a familar telepathically linked to all of Team Good. I fear this might be a vulnerabiity.

[Darth Paul]

I wonder what a Beast Mistress such as Oona could do with a familar telepathically linked to all of Team Good. I fear this might be a vulnerabiity.

I probably shouldn't weigh in on this, because I haven't read the PHB for a year or so, but I'm pretty sure familiars count as a magical creature and would be immune to Beastmaster-type domination. The familiar is already magically linked to another spell-user. But, I could be wrong.

[ByzantiumBhuka]

I wonder what a Beast Mistress such as Oona could do with a familar telepathically linked to all of Team Good. I fear this might be a vulnerabiity.

I wouldn't be too worried... *pop*

[ratfox]

I expected they would flee down the corridor to avoid being found immediately behind the door. Instead, they are hanging around just in case Evil Team picks the right door. However, my bardic senses tell me this is not yet the moment for the final confrontation... Therefore, I assume we will see the "trap" in action on Evil Team, and this will prevent any fight from happening. Looking forward to it!

[drazen]

Wait... Team Evil cleared out an entire high level dungeon in two or three minutes? 47 seconds since closing the door, Haley took a minute to disable the trap, unclear how long Durkon and Minrah were in stone but the Order was seemingly running down the cliff right after hearing the maximized fireball explode, so not *that* long.

[dancrilis]

Wait... Team Evil cleared out an entire high level dungeon in two or three minutes? 47 seconds since closing the door, Haley took a minute to disable the trap, unclear how long Durkon and Minrah were in stone but the Order was seemingly running down the cliff right after hearing the maximized fireball explode, so not *that* long.

Whether they cleared it or not is open to interpretation Greyview might have lead them out before they got very far.

However 2 minutes is 20 rounds - I imagine that Xykon and Redcloak could clear quite a lot in that time especially if they have a lot of practice with these dungeons.

[Quebbster]

Wait... Team Evil cleared out an entire high level dungeon in two or three minutes? 47 seconds since closing the door, Haley took a minute to disable the trap, unclear how long Durkon and Minrah were in stone but the Order was seemingly running down the cliff right after hearing the maximized fireball explode, so not *that* long.

Or greyview caught up after they encountered some monsters. No need to go through it all.
Can the Order still use Wind Walk by the way?

[danielxcutter]

I mean, you're not wrong that the Order is probably not quite ready to take on Team Evil, but I think you're underselling just how extenuating those circumstances were, and how much things have changed.

In the desert, they were completely without their most powerful party member, their second most powerful party member was a late arrival and with minimal magic left, Belkar was point of damage away from death (and with a bunch of other penalties), a lot of them had already taken good amounts of damage and they were suddenly thrust into a fight they were completely unprepared for.

Here? They have their full party, they've come here with the explicit expectation that a fight against Xykon might happen, they have a bonus party member too, they have additional levels that they've earned since the desert (gotta figure they earned a bunch during the whole Hel plot), and they're just a more cohesive group as a whole. They've taken some damage and expended some spells so far, but so has Team Evil.

Basically, if there was a fight right now (odds are there won't be), I figure that OOTS would stand a puncher's chance of winning. Things go their way, a bit of luck, some good rolls, and maybe they could squeeze out a victory. But it wouldn't be likely at all.

In mechanic terms, it is in fact unlikely, if not flat out “rocks fall everyone dies” levels of impossible for the Order to take on Xykon even now because of the sheer number of their options that he’s immune to. In Start of Darkness we’ve seen he has a ring that makes him immune to positive energy(so no Heal bombs), he’s got an item that makes him immune to fire and as a lich he’s also immune to cold and electricity damage, undead can’t be sneak attacked and he has so much DR Haley or Belkar would have trouble so much scratching him. Oh, and he has Boots of Free Movement so the Hand spells don’t work and throwing him into a Gate isn’t an option either.

Roy might be able to pull a Spellsplinter Maneuver once at the climax, but if my suspicions are correct and it works similarly to Mage Slayer or the like then only narrative causality would make it work; even Durkula was able to cast through it once and Xykon’s much stronger.

And this is all before the rest of Team Evil. It’s why I’m betting that Xykon gets taken out by somebody Bull Rushing him into a rift and getting eaten by the Snarl; because there is practically no way for him to lose otherwise.

If this was an actual game and I saw his stats, I’d call BS.

[DaOldeWolf]

I am not sure why it hasnt been mentioned but this could mean that the Mitd´s plan has been noticed. Lets hope Redcloak doesnt realize who the perpetrator is.

[Psyren]

Also I think Xykon might be having actual fun here.

He can actually gain XP and relevant loot in some of these, so yes

[Kantaki]

Blackwing and V are great.
Maybe they should work as comedians when all this is over.
Haley and Elan are almost sickenly sweet though.
Or maybe it's the candy I ate.

And Xykon shows that you're never too old to learn something new.

[dancrilis]

Can the Order still use Wind Walk by the way?

Possibly but I wouldn't bet on it - it would have been a convenient method for Durkon and Minrah to escape but they did not use it so it is likely not available any longer, but who knows.

[sillymel]

However 2 minutes is 12 rounds - I imagine that Xykon and Redcloak could clear quite a lot in that time especially if they have a lot of practice with these dungeons.

I'm pretty sure 2 minutes is actually 20 rounds, so even more time.

[dancrilis]

I'm pretty sure 2 minutes is actually 20 rounds, so even more time.

True and corrected.

[Rogar Demonblud]

That's from old black and white film noir detective movies. They usually start with the detective giving a monologue to himself in his office, when a mysterious woman walks in with a case.

I don't know any specific titles, since I've never seen any originals, but it's very frequently parodied in sci-fi and in cartoons. The various Star Trek series did several holodeck episodes where the officers would be cos-playing it in the holodeck.

You can take it a step further. The opening narration in many Trek episodes where someone is dictating a log entry is a riff on the theme.