Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert

[Ionathus]

Turn has a 3.5 term, which is different from the AD&D term. Turn:

You can also do a find (CTRL-F) on the actions in combat page.

For completion sake, round:



Oddly, the 5.0 quote I found sums up it best:



It must have been weird to go from "a Turn is 10 rounds and takes 600 seconds" to "a turn is part of a 6 second round".

I have no idea if this applies to the rest of AD&D/2e, but in Baldur's Gate I & II a single turn was 10 rounds, each of which (supposedly) lasted 6 seconds. Aaaand now I'm having flashbacks to Chant always wearing off too early.

[arimareiji]

It must have been weird to go from "a Turn is 10 rounds and takes 600 seconds" to "a turn is part of a 6 second round".

Indeed. And now I want to see comic 12 again, with "turn" thrown in for good measure.

🎶 To everything, turn, turn, turn
(and that's not even mentioning the everyone's-actions-in-10-minutes and single-person's-action-in-six-seconds variations... let alone the dictionary variants like "turn evil", "turn around", "turn a page", and several others)

[Yanisa]

Indeed. And now I want to see comic 12 again, with "turn" thrown in for good measure.

🎶 To everything, turn, turn, turn
(and that's not even mentioning the everyone's-actions-in-10-minutes and single-person's-action-in-six-seconds variations... let alone the dictionary variants like "turn evil", "turn around", "turn a page", and several others)

Something like:

"Yes, it's the start of my turn!"
"Wait, why are you getting a whole turn?"
"Because I rolled highest in initiative. I will take an attack action."
"You are going to spend 10 rounds for a single attack action?"
"No I'm going to make a full round attack. Durkon, you are up next."
"No' I will turn undead!"
"It's not the turn of the undead yet."
"How is everyone getting so many rounds?"
"We are still in the first round."
"Huh?!"

"How much crap do we have to go through on a daily basis because no-one at TSR double check the length of a turn in between switching editions?"

It basically writes itself.

[arimareiji]

Something like:

"Yes, it's the start of my turn!"
"Wait, why are you getting a whole turn?"
"Because I rolled highest in initiative. I will take an attack action."
"You are going to spend 10 rounds for a single attack action?"
"No I'm going to make a full round attack. Durkon, you are up next."
"No' I will turn undead!"
"It's not the turn of the undead yet."
"How is everyone getting so many rounds?"
"We are still in the first round."
"Huh?!"

"How much crap do we have to go through on a daily basis because no-one at TSR double check the length of a turn in between switching editions?"

It basically writes itself.

_{Afaik we don't have a Blackwing icon, so I beg your indulgence and imagination. (^_~)°}

(beat)
*whispers* "I get the feeling we should leave, even if we have to turn invisible."
"Concurred. Who knows how long this may go round in circles."
"Ok, see you around."
"I assure you, it will be longer than that."
"We should go, before this takes a turn for the worse."
"Okay, so it'll take a turn. But is that part of a round, or ten?"
*raises a single finger* (beat)
"Yes." *walks away before the temptation to cast Fireball becomes too great*

Fwiw, I don't blame the people who did the switch... "turn" as a term for "ten rounds" never made much sense to me, even beforehand. The best choice really might have been "Let's just swap it to the most obvious definition, and hope everyone forgets quickly".

_{Edit: Adding Blackwing, thanks to Fyraltari's help (^_^)}

[Fyraltari]

_{(Afaik we don't have a Blackwing icon, so I beg your indulgence and imagination. (^_~)°)}

Looking for a picture of an OOTS charcter to use in your post? Have you tired checking the first post of the Number of Charcter Appearances thread? It might just be the thing you need.

Here ya go:

[arimareiji]

Looking for a picture of an OOTS charcter to use in your post? Have you tired checking the first post of the Number of Charcter Appearances thread? It might just be the thing you need.

Here ya go:

Thankyamuch (^_^)b

[MultitudeMan]

Should we remove Lutey the Lute-tastical Lute from Elan's listed items, or is it too soon?

[danielxcutter]

Hmm… I’d say probably too soon. I doubt Elan’s going to be going through another “no gear and imprisoned” scenario anyways, and there’s not much reason for Serini to destroy Lutey either.

[Metastachydium]

there’s not much reason for Serini to destroy Lutey either.

Disagreed. Several threads have convincingly established that Serini is EVIL.

[danielxcutter]

Disagreed. Several threads have convincingly established that Serini is EVIL.

Honestly I still think she’s being a jackass.

[Silly Name]

Should we remove Lutey the Lute-tastical Lute from Elan's listed items, or is it too soon?

I think it's better to wait until a "scene" ends before we update possessions and the like. As far as we know, Elan may pick Lutey back up next page.

[Metastachydium]

Honestly I still think she’s being a jackass.

And you're not alone with that opinion. (Incidentally, I also think she is a bloody hypocrite. Neither of those makes her Evil, though.)

[danielxcutter]

And you're not alone with that opinion. (Incidentally, I also think she is a bloody hypocrite. Neither of those makes her Evil, though.)

I forget, what was your reason again?

Probably not Evil though. Would we ever list alignment shifts if we knew they happened?

[Gurgeh]

Strictly speaking we don't even know what Serini's alignment was back in her Scribbling days - let alone right now.

For all we know, she was evil all along and avoided detection by Soon with a combination of a high Bluff modifier and some lead sheeting.

[Metastachydium]

I forget, what was your reason again?

For thinking she's a jackass, for thinking she's a hypocrite or for thinking she's not Evil?

For all we know, she was evil all along and avoided detection by Soon with a combination of a high Bluff modifier and some lead sheeting.

Man, that would be funny. (And it would raise so many questions! I mean, what if this is actually a universal halfling thing and the entire race is Always Chaotic Evil, but they carry around lead sheets so everyone thinks they are with the Good guys?)

[Silly Name]

Man, that would be funny. (And it would raise so many questions! I mean, what if this is actually a universal halfling thing and the entire race is Always Chaotic Evil, but they carry around lead sheets so everyone thinks they are with the Good guys?)

Belkar did claim it was a halfling tradition...

[danielxcutter]

For thinking she's a jackass, for thinking she's a hypocrite or for thinking she's not Evil?

The first two; I don’t think we’ve seen nearly enough of her to figure out her alignment at all.

[Gurgeh]

Real talk: it's probably reasonable to assume that Serini is not evil given her long period of adventuring with Soon and the general thrust of the Scribblers' mission, but the evidence we have to this point gives us no useful information about her alignment beyond that.

[Silly Name]

I would pin Serini as either CN or CG.

Chaotic, in part because of her class, in part because of her methods (stealth, invisibility, poison, lies), and the fact she clearly monitored at least Soon's Gate more than what the Scribblers had agreed on - she knows exactly that not only O-chul had made the choice to shatter the Gate, but also that Miko used his katana to do so. The line about her job being "to protect the world, not the status quo" is also quite Chaotic.

That quote, and her concerns about the status of the "monstrous" races, could be reasonably used to construe her as Good.

In any case, I wouldn't include any information that's not at least partially predicated on either in-comic evidence or Rich saying something explicitly. Until something can be used to discern Serini's alignment other than personal interpretation of her words and actions, we shouldn't write anything down about it.

[danielxcutter]

Serini wasn’t mentioned in the Neutral alignment post thing so probably not one of those?

[Metastachydium]

The first two; I don’t think we’ve seen nearly enough of her to figure out her alignment at all.

1. Among other things (v. her whole outlook), she's a lying, cheating bastard who thinks she knows best and is extremely smug about it.
2. She's preaching about how no one else can be trusted with trying to save the world because who knows what stupid thing the paladins or the Order would do when due to her stupid carelessness she's personally (if indirectly) responsible for the destruction of all the Gates except Lirian's.

she knows exactly that not only O-chul had made the choice to shatter the Gate, but also that Miko used his katana to do so.

Incidentally, still don't really like the implications of that one. However we may read it, it means she (a rogue) somehow bypassed either the effects that blocked divinations targeting the throne room (if she's seen the original scene) or the Cloister (if she overheard O-Chul's report to Hinjo on the elven island).

[dancrilis]

Incidentally, still don't really like the implications of that one. However we may read it, it means she (a rogue) somehow bypassed either the effects that blocked divinations targeting the throne room (if she's seen the original scene) or the Cloister (if she overheard O-Chul's report to Hinjo on the elven island).

Or I could read it that the divination device which Roy never had a chance to have the casters examine does more then say 'broken' and actually if you know how to use it shows you the events the lead to it being broken so that the other defenders actually have useful information to work off of.

This to me seems the simplest answer.

[danielxcutter]

Yeah, but she’s still a rogue. She’s not going to have many ways to figure that out without some seriously powerful magic.

[dancrilis]

Yeah, but she’s still a rogue. She’s not going to have many ways to figure that out without some seriously powerful magic.

I assume that if I am right about the device that Dorukan would have told the others how to use them to monitor events in the event of a gate being destroyed.

[Silly Name]

Yeah, but she’s still a rogue. She’s not going to have many ways to figure that out without some seriously powerful magic.

She definitely has ranks in UMD, too, which may be how she's using the additional functions of the device.

However, it seems to me we're missing a far simpler option: the Cloister effects have worn off and Serini has contracted a caster* to examine exactly how Soon's Gate fell through divinations of the surviving paladins of the Sapphire Guard (presumably, she did the same for the other four since she seems to have a pretty good idea of who was involved and their objectives).

*could be Orangevoice, if they're the one charming Elan they're definitely a caster

[Metastachydium]

Or I could read it that the divination device which Roy never had a chance to have the casters examine does more then say 'broken' and actually if you know how to use it shows you the events the lead to it being broken so that the other defenders actually have useful information to work off of.

That's very unlikely, to say the least. The Guard had to send operatives to the Western continent, and even then, they couldn't figure out what, exactly, happened to the Gate. What's more, Dorukan himself, probably the most powerful caster among the Scribblers openly admits

Spoiler: SoD

Show

on p. 102 of SoD that he didn't know who was to blame for what became of Lirian until Xykon showed him the gem.

Had he seen the events unfold at the Glade, he should have had a decent idea of who could have been responsible, even if

Spoiler: SoD

Show

Xykon defeating and Soul Binding Lirian wasn't shown.

[danielxcutter]

And Wizards are the arguably best equipped casters to find out that stuff unless a divine caster gets the word directly from their god(which is more a plot device rather than anything mechanical). I doubt a Rogue would be that much better.

I suspect she’s got some friends that have very powerful magic and/or a direct hotline to a being at least at archfiend or celestial paragon level. Probably Orangevoice. Let’s hope it’s not something to do with the IFCC.

[InvisibleBison]

Serini wasn’t mentioned in the Neutral alignment post thing so probably not one of those?

I don't think Serini not being mentioned in the list of Neutral characters means anything one way or another, since the Giant ended that post by saying that there were additional neutral characters who he specifically did not include in the list.

[Metastachydium]

I suspect she’s got some friends that have very powerful magic and/or a direct hotline to a being at least at archfiend or celestial paragon level. Probably Orangevoice.

Somehow I have difficulty seeing Orange as that much more powerful than Serini. At any rate, I seriously doubt a high ranking outsider would call her "boss".

Let’s hope it’s not something to do with the IFCC.

Serini is not quite as clever as she thinks she is, but I'm pretty sure she's not that dumb.

[dancrilis]

That's very unlikely, to say the least. The Guard had to send operatives to the Western continent, and even then, they couldn't figure out what, exactly, happened to the Gate. What's more, Dorukan himself, probably the most powerful caster among the Scribblers openly admits

Spoiler: SoD

Show

on p. 102 of SoD that he didn't know who was to blame for what became of Lirian until Xykon showed him the gem.

Had he seen the events unfold at the Glade, he should have had a decent idea of who could have been responsible, even if

Spoiler: SoD

Show

Xykon defeating and Soul Binding Lirian wasn't shown.

I don't think that:

Spoiler: SOD

Show

"Ah ah treants destroyed the gate due to a fire and is that a goblin I see!"

Is the vital information that you think it is.