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2021-07-13, 08:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
EDIT: the DMG spellcasting PrCs are weird that way - by the rulebook text, EK only advances spells per day and caster level, while Archmage only advances spells per day and spells known. Loremaster advances all three (spells known, spells per day, and caster level).
It's extremely unlikely that these classes were meant to be such a dog's breakfast of advancement, especially since some of those barely give any value at all; I'm surprised it hasn't been changed by errata.Last edited by Gurgeh; 2021-07-13 at 08:15 AM.
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2021-07-13, 08:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
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2021-07-13, 11:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
It would probably have been possible, but it would have been incredibly expensive, page-consuming and time-consuming to put a 9th level spell in hir spellbook. Doubly so when V couldn't even use it. I agree that it was probably V throwing out ludicrous stuff to try and get a reaction.
(For the same reason, Z would have been pretty dumb to take the deal if it was for real. The costs would outweigh the benefits for far, far too long.)
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2021-07-13, 12:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
For most wizards, putting 9th level spells would be a waste, sure. But Vaarusvius's ambition all her life was to “achieve complete and total ultimate arcane power”. With that in mind, she would totally put ninth level spells in her spellbook. (Still not ones from her banned schools of course.)
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2021-07-13, 12:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
I'm pretty sure all sample archmages have a listed caster level that includes their caster level added to their wizard levels if they're a wizard, or sorcerer levels if they're a sorcerer.
Maybe there's an errata or FAQ that clarifies this?
The 3.0 version certainly had the appropriate phrase :
"This essentially means that she adds the level of archmage to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly".Last edited by hamishspence; 2021-07-13 at 12:59 PM.
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2021-07-13, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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2021-07-13, 01:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Are you arguing that the 3.5 rules for archmage fixed it by preventing it from advancing caster level?
Or are you going with "anything that increases spells per day as if you'd taken an extra character level, increases caster level"?
It would be a bit silly IMO, for a 13th level wizard/5th level archmage, who has taken 5 High arcana that aren't CL increases, to be stuck with CL 13.
Regarding the Eldritch Knight, I notice that all PRCs in later books which advance casting (whether partially or fully), advance both spells per day and spells known.Last edited by hamishspence; 2021-07-13 at 01:09 PM.
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2021-07-13, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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2021-07-13, 01:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
I'd go with "botched copy-pasting job".
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2021-07-13, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
V is willing to spend a feat on Improved Counterspell, the most situational of all situational metamagic. So yes, I think V is willing to take a prestigious prestige class instead of beelining for Time Stop.
Which solves the problem of "how can V link the entire party via telepathy yet not cast Time Stop," when you take a moment to think about it.
(For the same reason, Z would have been pretty dumb to take the deal if it was for real. The costs would outweigh the benefits for far, far too long.)Last edited by Anarchic Fox; 2021-07-13 at 02:13 PM.
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2021-07-13, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Yeh, I disagree with people saying Archmage isn't worth it. The spell slots you are giving up are trivial considering the powers you gain in return, especially for a specialist. If V took arcane reach they could employ cheap spells like imprisonment from 30 feet away for the cost of a 7th level spell slot. V has 3 more of those left at level 17. Mastery of Elements is similarly well worth the 8th level spell slot. Spell power to boost CL by 1 is a mere 5th level slot. I dunno if Arcane Fire would be worth it, only because I'm not sure how many times you get to case Arcane Fire in exchange for the 9th level spell slot. Is it once per day? If so, pass.
Last edited by TooSoon; 2021-07-13 at 03:13 PM.
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2021-07-14, 08:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
From strip 1240, Elan has ranks in Perform (oratory)?
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2021-07-14, 08:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
El Dorado: Sunny's reaction doesn't seem more impressive than the soldier's reaction when Elan gave a speech in #421. I don't see why either of them would require ranks in the skill, it could be an improvised check based on just his Charisma bonus. Oh, and Elan has a magical Belt of charisma now.
Last edited by b_jonas; 2021-07-14 at 08:59 AM.
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2021-07-14, 09:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Stat-only checks tend to be really hard to make though.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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2021-07-14, 09:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2021-07-14, 09:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
I made a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.
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2021-07-14, 09:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Or Diplomacy maybe?
Also Elan's belt is only +2, which is a +1 bonus to Cha-based checks. That really isn't much.Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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2021-07-14, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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2021-07-14, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Well, for one thing, they had no idea whatsoever about Gates, Godsmoots or dwarfen Councils at the point we're talking about.
But Elan has no bluff skills, his attempts usually endanger his life in new and exciting ways.Last edited by Reboot; 2021-07-14 at 11:48 AM.
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2021-07-14, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
But he's a Dashing Swordsman. If this wiki entry is correct, then he should have at least 9 ranks in bluff (and a few other skills). But for the purposes of this thread, the Dashing Swordsman template falls outside of the DnD reference manuals (Burlew Homebrew?) and is perhaps considered inadmissible? Either way, with an anti-magic field up, some basic skills and extraordinary abilities would sure come in handy right about now.
Last edited by DLcygnet; 2021-07-14 at 12:52 PM.
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2021-07-14, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Last edited by Peelee; 2021-07-14 at 01:26 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
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2021-07-14, 01:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
It's not correct. It's someone's idea of what the PrC would look like, only slightly based on (pretty scanty) in-comic evidence. In particular, there is zero indication in-comic that bluff is a prerequisite or class skill for the Dashing Swordsman - the only evidence is a repudiation of the idea, since Haley said Elan can't Bluff.
(Honestly, I'd put Bluff 0 in Elan's statblock based on that. I thought it was there already, TBH...)
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2021-07-14, 02:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Maybe Elan also took Craft Disturbing Mental Image as a feat?
There must be some sense of order - personal, political or dramatic - and if no one else is going to bring it to this world, I will.
Silent member of Zz'dtri's #698 Scrying Sensor Explanation Club.
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2021-07-15, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
It seems like multiple strips are at odds with each other. Bluff is a charisma based stat - assuming a +5 Charisma bonus after leveling a couple times (+6 with belt?), Elan should be able to bluff just fine on occasion, even if he only put 1 rank in the skill - especially if somebody is inclined to believe him (after all, everything he said to the Order and Sunny IS true).
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2021-07-15, 12:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
I'm not convinced that Elan's speech in #1187 counts as a Bluff. If he believes what he is saying is true, and wants the others to believe it too, then I think it would count as Diplomacy. I agree that convincing Sunny to blink is more like a Bluff, but I rather like the idea of it being a Performance.
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2021-07-15, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
There must be some sense of order - personal, political or dramatic - and if no one else is going to bring it to this world, I will.
Silent member of Zz'dtri's #698 Scrying Sensor Explanation Club.
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2021-07-15, 02:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Yeah, saying something like "I am the moon!" is the kind of thing that gives you a -20 penalty.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
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2021-07-16, 06:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Added,
Heroism
track-covering powder
rat skull
Run feat instead of Endurance. Are we actually sure Roy wasn't Fatigued on those days after we saw him sleep in his armor? I mean, he doesn't look like sleep-deprived Vaarsuvius, but V was plausibly Exhausted at that point (a worse condition than Fatigue).
Knowledge planes, light spell, and an unspecified way to boost their caster level
Gontor: deceased
Serini: bluff, craft, and UMD skills; Rapid Reload + Rapid Shot feat; troll graft; instant magic pot; crossbow, staff, wand of Dimdoor, goggles, pouch, blowgun with poison darts.Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
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2021-07-16, 09:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Blue is for sarcasm or irony.
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2021-07-16, 09:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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