Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert

[RMS Oceanic]

Halflings live about twice as long as humans... do we know precisely how long ago the first Snarl fiasco was?

66 years ago at the time of the Order's trial in Azure City.

[dancrilis]

Should we give Serini some of the following:
Skills: Bluff and Craft (Alchemy)
Feat: Brew Potion
Class: Rogue/Unspecified Caster

Not sure about most of that but Bluff seems fair at least.

[danielxcutter]

Bluff's technically doable untrained but I suppose it sounds fair.

Also I don't think she's taken caster levels; that pot has "instant magic pot" written on it in runes apparently so I'm guessing it's a crafting item.

[Yanisa]

66 years ago at the time of the Order's trial in Azure City.

Halflings are middle age at 50+ years, old at 75+ years and venerable at 100+ years. We can basically exclude middle aged*.

If she had a randomly generated age by the rules we get:
Halfling's starting age is 20 years.
Rogue adds 2d4 if they roll randomly.
Means if we can assume her age range is 88-94; Old age. (-3 to Str, Dex and Con, +2 to Int, Wis and Cha)

With a handpicked age she could be 34-49 , have no penalties during the scribble saga and end up venerable now. (-6 to Str, Dex and Con, +3 to Int, Wis and Cha)

Technically she could be be as old as 133 and still live by the rules. That would make her 199 years old, close to 200 years that is the maximum age of a halfling.
I am going to assume the Giant wouldn't make her younger then adult, so her minimum age is 86.
*If she was 8 years or younger we could bring back the middle ages, but she doesn't act like a 8 year old.

Anyhow, mostly likely old age, possibly venerable.

[Ephemera]

Bluff's technically doable untrained but I suppose it sounds fair.

Also I don't think she's taken caster levels; that pot has "instant magic pot" written on it in runes apparently so I'm guessing it's a crafting item.

Yah, even though I spent some time in the comic thread arguing that "instant pot" didn't indicate anything about whether the user was a caster, some sort of custom magic pot and her having UMD makes more sense than giving her caster levels just so she can make potions.

Are there any rules for poisons and such that can be brewed by a non-caster alchemist? From a non-rules story perspective that's probably the first assumption you'd want to make but I dunno if there's any RAW way for that to be the case.

[danielxcutter]

Yah, even though I spent some time in the comic thread arguing that "instant pot" didn't indicate anything about whether the user was a caster, some sort of custom magic pot and her having UMD makes more sense than giving her caster levels just so she can make potions.

Are there any rules for poisons and such that can be brewed by a non-caster alchemist? From a non-rules story perspective that's probably the first assumption you'd want to make but I dunno if there's any RAW way for that to be the case.

Poisons can just be done with Craft(poisonmaking) I think. No need for caster levels.

[Ephemera]

Poisons can just be done with Craft(poisonmaking) I think. No need for caster levels.

Then the question becomes whether you can get an amnesia effect from a poison...

[danielxcutter]

Then the question becomes whether you can get an amnesia effect from a poison...

Oh, but then she said “amnesia potion”... I’m voting on that pot, though.

[Quartz]

If Serini is a pure Rogue and the cauldron is a magic device, can we estimate her Use Magic Device skill?

[danielxcutter]

If Serini is a pure Rogue and the cauldron is a magic device, can we estimate her Use Magic Device skill?

...Nnnnnnno, we don't know how the cauldron works or even if she'd need UMD to activate it in the first place.

[Peelee]

If Serini is a pure Rogue and the cauldron is a magic device, can we estimate her Use Magic Device skill?

The cauldron is homebrewed, so even if we knew for a fact that it required UMD (we do not), we would have no idea what the DC would be.

[danielxcutter]

The cauldron is homebrewed, so even if we knew for a fact that it required UMD (we do not), we would have no idea what the DC would be.

Heh, home"brewed".

[Ephemera]

Heh, home"brewed".

Hipster Experts like to brew their own potions using home brew-kits.

I can just see a whole late-night infomercial for the magic instant pot here...

"Have you ever wanted to brew your own potions without the hassle of earning class levels? Now, for only 19 gold, 19 silver, 9 copper, you can own your very own magic instant pot! Order now, and we'll throw in this keen masterwork shuriken, a 40 gp value..."

[Doug Lampert]

Hipster Experts like to brew their own potions using home brew-kits.

I can just see a whole late-night infomercial for the magic instant pot here...

"Have you ever wanted to brew your own potions without the hassle of earning class levels? Now, for only 19 gold, 19 silver, 9 copper, you can own your very own magic instant pot! Order now, and we'll throw in this keen masterwork shuriken, a 40 gp value..."

But wait! There's more! For only shipping and handling we'll send you this set cookware....

[Jasdoif]

The cauldron is homebrewed, so even if we knew for a fact that it required UMD (we do not), we would have no idea what the DC would be.

The closest things I can think of are the magic forges in Races of Stone....a forge of Thautum allows a smith to craft magic weapons and armor as though they had the appropriate item creation feat, and a furnace of flames fulfills spell prerequisites for magic item creation for spells with the Fire descriptor. As is usually the case for use-activated magic items, no UMD check is required.

Conversely, if we're going off the deep end....The lowest UMD DC that comes to mind is 18, assuming the cauldron provides a warlock's imbue item ability (and possibly the use of the Brew Potion feat) and the amnesia effect is a stepped-down (i.e. 3rd-level) variant of modify memory so it's valid for potions.

Or perhaps she's making an entirely non-magical brew with amnesia peppers and the cauldron simply helps with her Craft checks (like a couple of the other magic forges do) so it goes faster. Who knows?

[hamishspence]

The Master Alchemist prestige class from Magic of Faerun gets to brew potions of higher level than 3rd - eventually reaching the ability to brew potions of 9th level spells. And there's nothing flavour-wise in the class that ties it irrevocably to the Faerun-verse.

[Jasdoif]

The Master Alchemist prestige class from Magic of Faerun gets to brew potions of higher level than 3rd - eventually reaching the ability to brew potions of 9th level spells. And there's nothing flavour-wise in the class that ties it irrevocably to the Faerun-verse.

Meeting the prereq of being able to cast 4th-level spells obfuscates/obviates whatever the UMD check is supposed to accomplish, though....Also, using a higher level spell would raise the DC I was attempting to minimize.

[RMS Oceanic]

I feel like making note of Serini's troll-graft is worthwhile, but it's hard to define how. An item? An ability? Does it do anything special?

[knag]

Do we know what spell Xykon is using in #1227?

[Yanisa]

Do we know what spell Xykon is using in #1227?

I don't think so.

Here's the list of spells known:

Spells: Animate Dead, Animate Dead Animal (SOD), Burning Hands, Cloister, Cloudkill, Contingency, Energy Drain, Epic Mage Armor, Finger of Death, Fireball, Ghostform, Greater Invisibility, Greater Shatter, Greater Teleport, Invisibility (SOD), Lightning Bolt, Magic Missile, Mass Hold Person, Meteor Swarm, Otiluke's Resilient Sphere, Overland Flight, Ray of Frost, Soul Bind (SOD), Stoneskin, Superb Dispelling, Symbol of Insanity, Symbol of Pain, Telekinesis, Teleport, Vampiric Touch, Xykon's Moderately Escapable Forcecage, planar travel spell, summoning spell, architecture spell, and wall-breaking spell.

Based on how it looks we are looking for a "cone" of "negative energy" that most likely allows reflex save for evasion to trigger. Also needs to deal atleast d6 per caster level to threaten an epic rogue.

The closest things on the list seems to be Lightning Bolt (line instead of cold, probably not black), Burning Hands (damage seems to low, range seems to short.) and Finger of Death (failure would be obvious to Xykon) all with major cons.

Some people in the comic thread speculated Disintegrate, but that is generally a green line, not a black cone.

[knag]

The closest things on the list seems to be Lightning Bolt (line instead of cold, probably not black), Burning Hands (damage seems to low, range seems to short.) and Finger of Death (failure would be obvious to Xykon) all with major cons.

Some people in the comic thread speculated Disintegrate, but that is generally a green line, not a black cone.

Another suggested Horrid Wilting, which works a little better.

[danielxcutter]

Another suggested Horrid Wilting, which works a little better.

Serini looks more charred or rotted rather than shriveled though.

Also considering that there isn't a dialogue box for her text in that panel I am not going to be 100% surprised if Rich actually just forgot to make some changes.

[Yanisa]

Another suggested Horrid Wilting, which works a little better.

Yeah, that is a good fit that I forgot. We also have an unknown level 8 spell, so it fits.

[Psyren]

I feel like making note of Serini's troll-graft is worthwhile, but it's hard to define how. An item? An ability? Does it do anything special?

It could be a graft, or a template if that procedure on the table counts as a ritual. (I'm leaning towards graft too, I just wanted to put all the options out there.)

[danielxcutter]

Honestly I'm mostly just going to view it as cosmetic unless we get evidence towards the contrary.

[Yanisa]

There is a feat called Troll Blooded, but the only source I find is from the Dragon Magazines (#319). The benefits and name fit, the requirements and downsides not...

[RMS Oceanic]

Honestly I'm mostly just going to view it as cosmetic unless we get evidence towards the contrary.

I too believe it's cosmetic, but it still feels noteworthy.

[InvisibleBison]

Honestly I'm mostly just going to view it as cosmetic unless we get evidence towards the contrary.

Wouldn't the fact that the procedure allowed Serini to regrow her hand and foot constitute evidence that it's not just cosmetic?

[danielxcutter]

Have we seen it actually do something besides that?

I will absolutely suggest it be added if we see it have a tangible effect besides that, I just don't think there's been anything worth adding to her statblock about it except its existence.

[Taelas]

Wouldn't the fact that the procedure allowed Serini to regrow her hand and foot constitute evidence that it's not just cosmetic?

Regeneration exists, so no. Even if it is a different variant that doesn't follow exactly the rules for regeneration, the fact that the effect is available without it means it could be "just" cosmetic.