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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Daring Outlaw Build Advice

    From Complete Scoundrel, this feat lets Rogue + Swashbuckler levels stack for Grace, Dodge Bonus and Sneak Attack. I was wondering: is it better to go Rogue 3/Swashbuckler X, or Rogue X/Swashbuckler 3? Option 1 has better BAB and hit points, but Option 2 has better skill points and more abilities. Either way, I'd be going Two-Weapon Fighting with the following pre-allocated stat arrangement:

    STR 14
    DEX 18
    CON 14
    INT 16
    WIS 10
    CHA 12

    Another thing: If I chose to use the PHB2 alternate feature to replace the Dodge Bonus with the bonus TWF 'bucklers get to AC, would that work with Daring Outlaw?
    "They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
    - The Flying Kipper

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Hyfigh's Avatar

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    Default Re: Daring Outlaw Build Advice

    I prefer Rogue 3/Swash X, but I usually don't need to fill the skill monkey.

    The question would how much mileage would you get out of the extra skill points compared to the extra BAB?

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Daring Outlaw Build Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS Oceanic View Post
    Another thing: If I chose to use the PHB2 alternate feature to replace the Dodge Bonus with the bonus TWF 'bucklers get to AC, would that work with Daring Outlaw?
    DM call. Most would say it's okay.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Daring Outlaw Build Advice

    I prefer Rogue 12/ Swashbuckler 8. This nets you two rogue special abilities, which I prefer to be Crippling Strike and opportunist; and a BAB of 17, netting you the entire twf tree.

    with Savvy Rogue, you can expect to render many opponents paralyzed by lowering their strengths to 0. If you don't have qualms about being evil, maiming strike targets charisma, and it ha been pointed out that creatures with high cha usually have low str and vice versa. UMD shivering touch and ray of stupidity and you are debuffing almost as good as a wizard.
    My mother says: those on fire should roll.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Daring Outlaw Build Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by cupkeyk View Post
    I prefer Rogue 12/ Swashbuckler 8. This nets you two rogue special abilities, which I prefer to be Crippling Strike and opportunist; and a BAB of 17, netting you the entire twf tree.

    with Savvy Rogue, you can expect to render many opponents paralyzed by lowering their strengths to 0. If you don't have qualms about being evil, maiming strike targets charisma, and it ha been pointed out that creatures with high cha usually have low str and vice versa. UMD shivering touch and ray of stupidity and you are debuffing almost as good as a wizard.
    Oh, UMD, is there anything you can't do?

    ...actually, no, there really isn't.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Daring Outlaw Build Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS Oceanic View Post
    Another thing: If I chose to use the PHB2 alternate feature to replace the Dodge Bonus with the bonus TWF 'bucklers get to AC, would that work with Daring Outlaw?
    Take the Buckler. You can get it enchanted to provide more benifit than the dodge bonus ever will.

    Also, I'd suggest going Rogue1 first for the skill points. Its only 4 hp which won't make a huge difference at high levels.

    Then get Swash 3 for insightful strike and good hp. Then go back to Rogue 3, and then Swash X.

    For weapons, make sure you duel wield the same weapon. Shortswords are good for thier crit range. This lets you double dip on feats like Weapon Focus and Improved Critical for both weapons. Other than that, focus on your TWF tree to get the most attacks you can. Invest your money in good enhancements for your weapons, like wounding or holy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Daring Outlaw Build Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by lussmanj View Post
    Take the Buckler. You can get it enchanted to provide more benifit than the dodge bonus ever will.
    Sorry. When I said " 'Buckler", it was short for "Swashbuckler", and it's an alternative feature in PHB2 that gives you a +2 shield bonus to AC when you attack with two weapons, and it grows with levels.

    Also, I'd suggest going Rogue1 first for the skill points. Its only 4 hp which won't make a huge difference at high levels.
    Naturally.

    Then get Swash 3 for insightful strike and good hp. Then go back to Rogue 3, and then Swash X.

    For weapons, make sure you duel wield the same weapon. Shortswords are good for thier crit range. This lets you double dip on feats like Weapon Focus and Improved Critical for both weapons. Other than that, focus on your TWF tree to get the most attacks you can. Invest your money in good enhancements for your weapons, like wounding or holy.
    Short Swords are always good. As an alternative however, I was thinking of burning a feat on EWP(Elven Lightblade). The lightblade is basically a Rapier that's light instead of one-handed. Is this a good idea?
    "They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
    - The Flying Kipper

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Daring Outlaw Build Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    Oh, UMD, is there anything you can't do?

    ...actually, no, there really isn't.
    you might as well wear a monks belt, emulate class and get snap kick for more attacks.

    Short Swords are always good. As an alternative however, I was thinking of burning a feat on EWP(Elven Lightblade). The lightblade is basically a Rapier that's light instead of one-handed. Is this a good idea?
    Burning feats is never a good idea.

    Of the elven blades, my favorite is the elven court blade which is a finessable great sword, for +1.5str modifier 2xbab when power attacking. This is possible to pump your dex, finesse your to hit and still benefit from PA with just 13 str. But then you could get reach with a spiked chain and tripping abilities too. Then wear the monk's belt and kick them for your off hand attack. Or if you are wearing mithral breastplate, armor spikes.
    Last edited by cupkeyk; 2007-11-05 at 01:06 PM.
    My mother says: those on fire should roll.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Daring Outlaw Build Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by cupkeyk View Post
    Of the elven blades, my favorite is the elven court blade which is a finessable great sword, for +1.5str modifier 2xbab when power attacking.
    Hmm... interesting. What book is this in?

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Daring Outlaw Build Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Hzurr View Post
    Hmm... interesting. What book is this in?
    Races of the Wild.

    More recommended for Daring warrior, Fighter4 Swashbuckler 15/ Exotic Weapon Master 1 for uncanny blow, get slashing flurry and lots of attacks with 2x your str mod, 2x your bab, and your int.

    To confuse you even further:
    Daggers are still good though because you can get Martial Study and Shadow blade to add your Dexterity bonus damage. Hurhurhur.
    Last edited by cupkeyk; 2007-11-05 at 01:58 PM.
    My mother says: those on fire should roll.

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