Help me win a bet! (optimized 1v1 wizard or cleric)

[Gruftzwerg]

If warlocks are allowed, I would go with an warlock 6/alienist 9 build to win the competition. (alienist ain't really needed but a nice icing here).

1. Dragonwrought Kobold (to start with CHA 21 >> 24 @ lvl 12)
3. Spell Focus (Conjuration)
6. Augment Summoning
9. Flexible Mind (hide & move silently = max if possible after this point)
12. Beckon the Frozen
15. Obtain Familiar (Bat)

See the Unseen - 24h see invisibility
Devil's Sight - to see in magical darkness 24h
Entrophic Warding - 20% misschance against ranged attacks

Hungry Darkness - (@lvl6 to enter Alienist, since HD summons a bat swarm and thus is 3rd lvl summoning spell for that purpose of entering a prc)
Fell Flight - 24h fly
Walk Unseen - 24h invisible unless you attack (summons and familiar attacks don't make you visible)

Tenacious Plague - our main ability to win the fight
Hellspawned Grace - our backup strategy
Nightmares Made Real - another backup strategy

Tenacious Plague:

Summons 5 locus swarms (@lvl 15) per standard action! Since they are stationary, you can and you may summon more of em each round you can cover a big area fast if he should be somehow invisible/hidden.

The Distraction ability (base DC12) is affected by the CON modifier of the swarm and the warlocks CHA modifier.
12 + 2(+4 Con from Augment Summoning) + 7 (CHA 24) = DC 21 Fortitude
As Mystic Theurge, his Fortitude save should be low which should cause him problems. On failed save he is nauseated for 1 round. Rolls are forced every round he still remains in the stationary swarm.

the swarm automatically deal 2d6 + 1d6(cold) dmg every turn.


Pseudonatural Familiar
Has high SR 25; Acid & Electricity Resistance 15 and DR10/magic and boosted attacks. A pretty nasty fellow for any enemy chaster. Can be a viable backup strategy.

Nightmares Made Real
A nice dmg source that can root your enemy if he should fail the save (Will DC 23 = 10 + 6th lvl + 7Cha). I expect that you enemy will have a better save bonus against this. But if the fails he now can't leave the locust swarm anymore. The swarm may die later due to the dmg, but we can cast every round more, so that ain't a problem. What is more important is that if you enemy should have access to see invisibility somehow, you can drop this to hide (HIPS) in it. That is the reason to put ranks into hide & move silently with Flexible Mind.

Hellspawned Grace
A Hellcat is a good option against enemy casters.
Just the shier amount of special qualities you get will overpower him:
Damage reduction 5/good, darkvision 60 ft., invisible in light, resistance to fire 10, scent, spell resistance 19, telepathy 100 ft.
Not to forget the pounce rake improved grab combo and you have a formidable fighting form to beat your enemy.


Depending on your enemies build, one of the options this build has should work out. This is due to the ruleset that you have tailored ;)
The main upside is due to the 24h buffs you will be invisible flying (away from your familiar to mislead your enemy) at the start of the duel. Because of this, even if you lose initiative, your enemy first has to waste action to see/locate you. This build will be the one to attack (indirect so you can keep being invisible) first, no matter what your enemy builds with his theurge.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

To win with the Mystic Theurges, all three take Initiate of Mystra and all three have Antimagic Field cast.

[Silentline]

Doesn't matter how many spells the mystic theurge has.

Just make sure you have 1 level of archmage allowing
(High arcana: Master of Counterspelling) You know for a fact he's going mystic theurge. So his number of attacks is limited and predictable.

Make sure you possess more attacks than your caster opposition. Counter all his spells so they are deflect back at him. This should leave you with 1 attack. Use that to target any protections he has.. Drow spell Arcane backfire will do damage to him based on those protections without officially targeting the caster for counter reactive spells (I hope I got the spell title right. If not look it up under the Drow of the underdark spell list section). Every round your foe.should be at the mercy of 1 spell from you. Buff this with haste and make sure you hit the foe with slow at first opportunity.

Get a celestial gerbil or something very, very, very intelligent and also have it cast spells. Summon hand fulls of terrifying creatures to frustrate and collapse his defenses. Once he's cornered by them. Curse all the minions to explode when they die (somebody look up that.spell cause I don't have it on hand right now.) in case your foe decides to target them instead of you. All the while keep Counterspelling everything he does.

Thank you for your time and I hope I've been of some help.

I killed therest because it's a hijacking cross topic.

[Eldariel]

cant help you there. id just hit him with an antimagic ray from the get go and kill 100% of his defense and offense. because cleric buffs are scary, and a buffless cleric is a joke. its in spell compendium.

thats right, you land that antimagic ray on him and thats a win right there. because orb spells, being instantaneous duration conjuration spells, work in dead magic and antimagic fields assuming you cast the spell from outside. while he cant cast even a single spell.

...your cunning plan is to cast a Will negates single target Ray on a Wisdom-based triple-good-Will character with the best tools in the game to boost their touch AC? I'm sorry but I'm not entirely convinced by this idea.


@OP: Well, if he's persistomancing, obviously persistomancy yourself. Wizards can use Incantatrix or Spelldancer, Cleric doesn't need either (but should use Divine Disciple or such for Outsider Polymorph forms). Antimagic Field is a good protection. Selective Antimagic Field means you can walk next to them and they'll be Antimagicked while you won't. Further, you'll be protected from everything. Persist it while at it and enjoy. Share with your familiar and pick Familiar Spellbond as a feat so they can do the same of course.

You do want to abuse Polymorph Any Object, Mind Blank (indeed, Contingency to Teleport away and then start scry'n'die war where he can be detected while you can't is probably the way to ensure you'll win either way), Simulacrum, Greater Planar Binding, etc. You have a number of crazy spells at your disposal that he's entirely forswearing so obviously, to make this point, you should win with those spells. Though Initiate of Mystra is probably the ultimate solution to this since AMF is otherwise quite strong. Don't forget to make yourself immortal and all that (simple Favor of the Martyr + regeneration or Delay Death + Beastland Ferocity - you can do that pretty easily as a Wizard or Cleric), jack up your numbers, have the ability to instantly delete him numerically (persistent Consumptive Field + Bag of Rats is a nice one for instance on top of your Draconic Polymorph & al.) and then just focus on the fact that you have Greater Teleport, Mind Blank, Holy Word-line, Limited Wish, etc. that he doesn't. Dweomerkeeper Cleric can for instance get free Limited Wishes at this point which he can't access. You can also jack up your caster level pretty high so you can just walk through his Antimagic Field and Initiate of Mystra spells at him.

[Asmotherion]

-Just build an Incantatrix and persist a bunsh of buffs that make you Immune to everything and give a bunsh of unfair advantages like Wraithstrike, Greater Dimension Door, Ruin Delver's Fortune X3, Ray Deflection (Replicate via Limited Wish), energy imunity for every element you're not already imune to (see PaO bellow) (in standard "powertesting" duels, any spell that has a longer duration than 12 hours is considered on). Use Celarity, Nerveskitter and everything that makes you play first. Scintilating Scales may also prove useful if he uses a lot of touch attacks. And, let's not forget Death Ward, though I'd advise to instead wear an item that grands it. Actually, you could invest a part of your Wealth by Level for items that give some of these buffs.

-Be invisible. Greater Planar Bind a bunsh of usefull things. Create Greater Undead some others. Things that deal Abilty Score Damage or Negative Levels, or that restrict his abilities. Wait it out; Chances are, he'll be able to survive, but you'll have a pretty good idea of what his core strategy is, and you'll force him to use a bunsh of usefull spell slots. Since he's sooo overconfident, he probably won't object.

-Have a look at Dispelling spells as an oppening strategy in a duel; If he's anywere near competant, it'll be worth it, otherwise, It's still a good strategy. I also strongly advice to have Battlemagic Perception AND Arcane Sight active, so you'll know when you need to dispell. True Casting and Assay Spell resistance may help too.

-Polymorph any Object. With Share Spell on your Familiar, you can both effectivelly become a variety of useful Monsters, and, with the right choice, you can still cast your Spells in that form. I suggest a couple of Planetars, and use the Planetar's Change Shape to both appear in your own form so that he can't know you're effectivelly imune to any non-evil damage. Do the Same for your Familiar. Through share spells, make it seem that your Fammiliar is casting spells instead of you; He'll focus on your familiar and ignore you.

-Fell Drain metamagic. Use it. Lock him out of his more powerful spells.

-Have a look at Selective Antimagic Field Strategies together with a good Grapler Familiar.

All this, if used the right way, should be overkill.

[Jack_Simth]

hit him with an antimagic ray and proceed to do as i please.

Spell Compendium version of Antimagic ray is Will negates. The Mystic Theurge has good Will saves all around, and likely a decent Wisdom score as well. If you can make him fail a will save, why not just cast Insanity or something?

[Asmotherion]

Spell Compendium version of Antimagic ray is Will negates. The Mystic Theurge has good Will saves all around, and likely a decent Wisdom score as well. If you can make him fail a will save, why not just cast Insanity or something?

And even in the off chance you surrpass his Will Save AND potentially SR... At that level, who goes in combat without being under a Ray Deflection spell? He is part cleric... that means he will have persistant buffs active at all times.

Antimagic Ray, wile it sounds cool, is really a horrible spell; The fact that it's a Will Save instead of a Ranged Touch Attack makes it suffer from the same stuff that downgrade Dissintergrade as a blasting spell (And we all know how little it takes to buff all your saves to around +30 with next to no investment), and the Fact it's namelly a ray means that anything interacting with Rays (such as Ray Defflection) interacts the same way with it. In other words, an enemy must be extreamly unoptimised or unlucky (actually even luck can be optimised, but anyway, besides the point here), to ever be affected by it, at least when fighting something in their CR range.

[Gruftzwerg]

btw, I thought I was missing something all the time..^^

Spellblade : Antimagic Ray
For a mere 6k on your magic weapon you can become immune to Antimagic Ray. Imho it's a cheap option and should be considered default equip for both participants. So, delete Antimagic Ray from your kill combos (since they will fail) and find new options xD

[Eldariel]

btw, I thought I was missing something all the time..^^

Spellblade : Antimagic Ray
For a mere 6k on your magic weapon you can become immune to Antimagic Ray. Imho it's a cheap option and should be considered default equip for both participants. So, delete Antimagic Ray from your kill combos (since they will fail) and find new options xD

Why waste money? Simple Ray Deflection or Friendly Fire persisted makes you immune to all rays, not just Antimagic Ray. Friendly Fire makes it autohit your enemy if within 30' instead. Hell, Friendly Fire can even be used as an immediate action without having to even bother with persisting. And that's before considering how damn easy it is to boost your touch AC to a point where enemy will struggle to land their touch attacks even with True Strike.

No, Antimagic Field is about 100 times the spell Antimagic Ray is. Selective, Initiate of Mystra, Extraordinary Spell Aim or otherwise to make it not affect you.

[Anthrowhale]

...Selective, Initiate of Mystra, Extraordinary Spell Aim or otherwise to make it not affect you.

I believe these are rather different effects.

Selective makes the AMF not affect you. This really matters if you are incorporeal, but otherwise does not. Your items, spells cast on you, your spells/SLAs/Supernatural abilities remain suppressed as do the same used on you.

Initiate of Mystra makes it so the AMF does not affect your spells. Other spells and your items are suppressed. If you are incorporeal, you still wink out. Your SLAs and supernatural abilities are suppressed.

Extraordinary Spell Aim shapes the AMF so it does not affect you. All magic applies to you and can be created by you normally. If you are incorporeal, you do not wink out. Anyone elsewhere in the AMF suffers the normal effects as do the spells/items/SLAs/SUs you use into the remaining area.

An interesting alternative is using Otiluke's Suppressing Field. This suppresses spells and spell effects (produced by spells, SLAs, or items) of insufficient caster level, but otherwise leaves SUs and items intact. If you optimize caster level, your spells work but others do not in an Initiate of Mystra style except without requiring a feat. It's not as good defensively as AMF, but it's much better than AMF+Extraordinary Spell Aim and you get to keep many important items/abilities relative to AMF.

Antimagic Ray is primarily useful defensively by an Initiate of Mystra since you can suppress all foreign spells/SLAs/SUs while keeping your spells and items intact.