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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2019
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    Male

    amused The Street Thug [Rogue Subclass]

    Hello everyone! I am going to run an urban campaign soon and one of my players wanted to play a street thug type of character, so I made a Strength-based homebrew subclass for the rogue. I would love to read your input on it, I don't want it to break the game or feel stronger than other classes.
    (I do not allow multiclass in my games, it might be a balance consideration for some).

    The Street Thug:

    3rd level:
    Street Schooled: You are proficient with medium armor and improvised weapons.

    Dirty Fighter:
    When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you learn dirty tricks that add additional effect to your sneak attack ability.

    Dirty Tricks. You learn two Dirty Tricks of your choice, which are listed under “Dirty Tricks” below. When you hit a target with a sneak attack you can also apply the effect of a single dirty trick to it.
    You learn one additional dirty trick of your choice at 9th, 13th, and 17th level. Each time you learn a new dirty trick, you can also replace one dirty trick you know with a different one.
    You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Strength modifier (minimum of once), and you regain all expended uses of it when you finish a long rest.

    Saving Throws. Your Dirty Tricks require your target to make a saving throw to resist the trick’s effects. The saving throw DC is calculated as follows:
    Dirty Trick save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength

    9th level:
    Rough Up: You have an advantage on attack rolls against grappled targets. Additionally, you can add your Strength modifier to Intimidation and Persuasion checks made against grappled and restrained targets.

    13th level:
    Brute: You can use the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action to make a Shove or Grapple attack. Additionally, you are proficient with Strength Saving Throws.

    17th level:
    Menace: When you finish a short rest you regain a number of Dirty Tricks uses equal to half your Strength modifier (rounded down).

    Dirty Tricks:

    Eye Gauge: The target must make a Dexterity save or become blinded until the end of your next turn.

    Ear Smash: The target must make a Constitution save or become deafened until the end of your next turn.

    Chokehold: The target must make a Strength save or become restrained. At the end of each of its turns, the target can make another Strength saving throw. On success, the effect ends on the target. The effect also ends if you move away from the target or attack a different target.

    Blackjack: When you hit with an attack that would otherwise result in a sneak attack, you can choose to forgo the extra damage dice and attempt to incapacitate the target. Your target must be a humanoid creature no more than one size larger than you and must be within your reach. The target must make a constitution save against a DC 8 + your proficiency modifier + your Strength modifier, or fall unconscious for one minute. At the end of each of its turns, the target can make another Constitution saving throw. On success, the effect ends on the target.

    Headbutt: The target has a disadvantage on the next attack roll it makes before the end of its next turn. Additionally, if this attack provokes a concentration check, the DC is equal to your dirty trick DC or half the damage, whichever is higher.

    Skull Smash: You can split your sneak attack damage between two targets that are within 5 ft. of you, each target takes an additional 1d4 bludgeoning damage.

    Under The Belt: The target must make a Constitution save or fall prone.

    Kidnap: You and the target move half your movement speed to a location you choose and can travel to.

    Concussion: The target cannot take reactions until the start of its next turn.

    Thank you for your feedback <3
    Last edited by MustaKrakish; 2020-12-13 at 05:56 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    May 2020

    Default Re: Homebrew Rogue Subclass

    First off, while the base rogue class already had a lot of out of combat abilities, most subclasses give you options you can for exploration and social interaction. Not a requirement, but just an observation.

    Second, there is a dedicated forum for homebrew design:

    https://forums.giantitp.com/forumdis...omebrew-Design

    Your post might get moved there, but that's the preferred place to post homebrew material.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Banned
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2020

    Default Re: Homebrew Rogue Subclass

    Over-all not a bad subclass. It's a very strong one since it combines the high damage of sneak attack with additional effect, so that might be something you want to keep in mind. One solution would be to forego the sneak attack damage to be able to perform the dirty tricks?

    Speaking of the dirty tricks, most of them are fine but some are quite powerful. I'm thinking especially of Blackjack, Chokehold and Under the Belt. Might want to restrict those to higher levels, perhaps? Eye Gouge and Ear Smash are also pretty powerful. A simple solution would be to change the duration to "until the end of the target's next turn".

    "Brute" on level 13 is also very powerful (Cunning Action doesn't actually grant you a Bonus Action, it just allows for certain bonus actions, btw). I'd switch that up to level 17. I also think it would be a good idea to let the Dirty tricks recharge on a short rest so maybe have that as the level 13 ability?

    Tom sum it up, this could work but it's very powerful and a bit combat focused. As long as you keep that in mind you are good to go!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2019
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    Male

    Default Re: Homebrew Rogue Subclass

    I would love to switch one of the abilities with a none-combat ability but I couldn't think of any...

    About the dirty tricks, I thought that mostly strength and constitution saves are kinda hard to pass, so it might balance things up a little bit.

    I like the idea of making some of the tricks require higher levels.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    NE Tennessee
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Homebrew Rogue Subclass

    Level 3:
    Shouldn't you add a point that improvised weapons are considered finesse? This allows you to sneak attack with improvised weapons. Otherwise, getting that proficiency isn't helpful.
    +1 to putting level requirements on some dirty tricks. It gets you past the problem of the Battle Master where your future picks are just the "best of what's left". Adding some non-combat tricks would be nice as well.
    Another idea is maybe having some maneuvers costing "sneak attack dice", like having to subtract Xd6 on the sneak attack damage to perform the trick for the more powerful ones. May be getting too fiddly, though.
    Consider making the dirty tricks be proficiency bonus times per day. Somewhat for balance (start with 2, end with 6 for more spacing them out), somewhat to align with the TCoE "trend".

    Level 9:
    Solid, love the intimidation while grappled thing.

    Level 13:
    Nothing wrong here I don't think.

    Level 17:
    Seems weak for a subclass capstone. I'd just double the # you have per day, or "refresh" the full amount at the end of a short rest.

    Dirty Tricks:
    Eye Gouge and Ear Smash seem like they should target the same saving throw. If you can duck to avoid an eye gouge, you can duck to avoid an ear smash.
    Kidnap: Can't you do this already with a grappled target? Granted, using this doesn't require you to grapple a target, but there's a great deal of overlap.

    Summary: Like the grappling theme and the added toys with grappling. Very on point for a thug.

    Just a few random thoughts. Hope this helps.
    Emongnome

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Homebrew Rogue Subclass

    Wow, you guys are amazing. Your insight really helped me a lot!

    Here's what I came up with after your input:

    The Street Thug:

    3rd level:
    Street Schooled: You are proficient with medium armor and improvised weapons. Additionally, improvised weapons are considered Finesse weapons for the purpose of a sneak attack.

    Dirty Fighter:
    When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you learn dirty tricks that add additional effect to your sneak attack ability.

    Dirty Tricks. You learn two Dirty Tricks of your choice, which are listed under “Dirty Tricks” below. When you hit a target with a sneak attack you can also apply the effect of a single dirty trick to it.
    You learn one additional dirty trick of your choice at 9th, 13th, and 17th level. Each time you learn a new dirty trick, you can also replace one dirty trick you know with a different one.
    You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Strength modifier (minimum of once), and you regain all expended uses of it when you finish a long rest.

    Saving Throws. Your Dirty Tricks require your target to make a saving throw to resist the trick’s effects. The saving throw DC is calculated as follows:
    Dirty Trick save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength

    9th level:
    Rough Up: You have an advantage on attack rolls against grappled targets. Additionally, you can add your Strength modifier to Intimidation and Persuasion checks made against grappled and restrained targets.

    13th level:
    Menace: A target that was intimidated by you via the use of Rough Up, is considered charmed for 10 minutes, as they will attempt to please you rather than invoke your wrath. Creatures that are immune to charm are also immune to this ability. You can use this ability twice, and you regain any expended uses when you finish a long rest.

    17th level:
    Brute: You can use the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action to make a Shove or Grapple attack. Additionally, When you finish a short rest you regain a number of Dirty Tricks equal to half your Strength modifier (rounded down).

    Dirty Tricks:

    Blackjack (level 13): When you hit with an attack that would otherwise result in a sneak attack, you can choose to forgo the extra damage dice and attempt to incapacitate the target. Your target must be a humanoid creature no more than one size larger than you and must be within your reach. The target must make a constitution save, or fall unconscious for one minute. At the end of each of its turns, the target can make another Constitution saving throw. On success, the effect ends on the target.

    Chokehold (level 9): When you hit with an attack that would otherwise result in a sneak attack, you can choose to forgo the extra damage dice and attempt to restrain the target. The target must make a Strength save or become restrained. At the end of each of its turns, the target can make another Strength saving throw. On success, the effect ends on the target. The effect also ends if you move away from the target or attack a different target. The target must be a creature no more than one size larger than you. Additionally, while maintaining the chokehold, your movement is reduced to 0 and any melee attack targeting you is with an advantage.

    Concussion: The target cannot take reactions until the start of its next turn.

    Ear Smash: The target must make a Dexterity save or become deafened until the end of its next turn.

    Eye Gauge: The target must make a Dexterity save or become blinded until the end of its next turn.

    Headbutt: The target has a disadvantage on the next attack roll it makes before the end of its next turn. Additionally, if this attack provokes a concentration check, the DC is equal to your dirty trick DC or half the damage, whichever is higher.

    Kidnap: You and the target move half your movement speed to a location you choose and can travel to. The target must be your size or smaller.

    Skull Smash: You can split your sneak attack damage between two targets that are within 5 ft. of you, each target takes an additional 1d4 bludgeoning damage. The target must be no more than one size larger than you and have a discernible anatomy.

    Under The Belt (Level 9): The target must make a Constitution save or fall prone. The target must be a humanoid creature no more than one size larger than you and have a discernible anatomy.
    Last edited by MustaKrakish; 2020-12-13 at 03:19 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Street Thug [Rogue Subclass]

    Okay, this is the latest iteration of the subclass. Would love to read your feedback.


  8. - Top - End - #8
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Goblin

    Join Date
    Jan 2021

    Default Re: The Street Thug [Rogue Subclass]

    Not sure if you're still working on this, but in case you are, I have a few points.

    1.) Rogues already get a lot of expertise, so adding it under Bodyguard and Enforcer as well is probably not a great idea.

    2.) Blackjack probably ought to knock the target prone, right?

    3.) Hamstring seems very, very powerful, especially since if you hit any creature with it twice, they're immobilized until they regain HP. I think having it end when they regain HP is a mistake because most monsters can't do that during combat. You should consider it being a thing they save at end of turn to get rid of or something.

    4.) 4 of the 9 dirty tricks only work on creatures with humanoid anatomy, which means this subclass kind of sucks if you aren't fighting a lot of those. You could probably reflavor one or two of those tricks so they can work more generally.

    For the record, I've always wanted a Str-based thug rogue subclass and I like a lot of your ideas!

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